| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Guest9044 |
Posted - 01/07/2009 : 05:03:52
Will Taveres shatter Gretzky record of 215 points in the NHL |
| 40 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| MyTeamRules |
Posted - 12/23/2010 : 12:40:27
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9044
Will Taveres shatter Gretzky record of 215 points in the NHL
The answer is Yes
Tavares will get 300 points, but he won't be the first SOB will get 600 points this year OMGOMG 
”If you've only got one day to live, come see the Toronto Maple Leafs. It'll seem like forever. ” - Pat |
| Guest2260 |
Posted - 12/23/2010 : 07:00:18
let not kid ourselves both Gretzky and Lemieux played for extreamly talented teams and had some very talented linemates. but the difference is not in the linemates these guys had it is in the talent level of the rest of the leauge at the time. The hockey in general was smoother crisper. There were fewer teams and less players so the talent pool was high. todays NHL is so full of no talent hacks who resort to obstruction it is much harder for the stars to play to thier potential. it is possible with the leagues new stance on obstruction and teams getting away from the big dumb slow players and starting to pay more attention to some of the smaller faster players we may see the leauge get back to some higher scoring but I doubt ever to the point of Gretzky in the 80's. not to take away from the talent of Gretzky the man was blessed but he did have a perfect storm situation in the NHL he was on a super talented team noticably faster and better than all the rest a dynasty and was in a free wheeling style NHL. in order for a Crosby or Ovechkyn to acheive a 200+ point system they would not only need the skill but the star would have to align in the NHL just right to creat the same kind of misbalance of talent in a high scoring NHL system. |
| Guest2260 |
Posted - 12/23/2010 : 06:50:54
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9044
Will Taveres shatter Gretzky record of 215 points in the NHL
|
| Guest2260 |
Posted - 12/23/2010 : 06:42:12
I would agree that this is a bit of a silly poll clearly Taveres has not proven anything in the NHL yet and isn't even in the top 50 in scoring this year. So given that moving on to the real talent in the NHL today. Stamkos is having a break out year and could be one to watch but lets give him a few more years. Ovechkyn also has talent but I beleive a hot head and big temper he does not have the poise and composure of a Crosby or Gretzky. While Ovy will always be a talent he will never be the calibure of a Gretzky. I beleive the best player in the NHL today is Crosby. he has the best hockey sense he has confidence and composure. he is not prone to injury he just plays smart and consistant. This is what Gretzky was. SMart and consistant. If we talk raw talent I think Lemieux was a bit better the man could score at will. while I do beleive there was more scoring in the NHL in the 80's and i also think the smaller leauge fewer teams and therfore more talented teams had something to do with that there are too many filler players in the leauge today who have little talent and are forced to hook hold and grab the stars of the game in order to even attempt to catch up. I think Crosby is the only one who even has a chance to reach the talent level of Gretzky lets face it a 200+ point season is just rediculous Gretzky is the king of hockey end of story. |
| ToXXiK1 |
Posted - 12/23/2010 : 03:26:51
No way in HELL, especially on that team of hasbeens & nevewases. |
| Guest8853 |
Posted - 12/23/2010 : 01:05:50
Oops, hit post before I made my comments. Anyways, I wouldn't really say "Gretzky didn't go on fire until he and his other superstar teammates matured and gelled as a unit...". His first year he tied for the Art Ross and won the Hart, without anyone of note. His 2nd year in the league he broke the records for most assists and most points in a season. In fact, other than Lemieux and Gretzky himself, that season has never been beaten by any other player... and it wasn't even close to Gretzky's best season. He won the Art Ross (obviously) and the Hart again.
His 3rd season is where he starts playing more with Kuri, but even then he spent most the season with Semenko and Lumley. But he breaks the NHL record for goals (with 92), breaks the 50 in 50 record with a staggering 50 in 39, and breaks his own record for points, putting up 212 which is the 2nd most of all time, only behind himself of course. This was his first season over 200 points, and it was only his 3rd season in the league. The Oilers still weren't winning any championships, and were still developing as a team, yet Gretzky was shattering every record in the NHL. He obviously wins the Art Ross and Hart trophies again.
His 4th season he "only" scores 196 pts, but they make the finals and are swept by the Islanders. At this point they are obviously a great team, on the cusp of winning, but can't overcome the Islanders, who were a great dynasty in their own right. But Gretzky wins another Hart and Art Ross.
5th season they win their first cup, and Gretzky breaks 200 pts again. So yes, it obviously didn't take them long to gell. But to say that Gretzky didn't really "catch fire" for a while is pretty strange IMO when we consider he won 5 Harts in his first 5 seasons, won 4 Art Ross trophies (and lost in his rookie year on the tie breaker), set records that may never be beaten, and turned an expansion team that was 16th place (out of 21 teams) his first season in the league into a championship team by their 5th season (and helped establish one of the great dynasties of NHL hockey). That is a staggering set of achievements, starting right from the moment he stepped into the NHL.
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| shazariahl |
Posted - 12/23/2010 : 00:55:03
quote:
Originally posted by Guest3372
i dunno, i'd probably have to google the lineups that gretz and mario had when they had the big 215 and 199 point seasons and see - gretzky didn't go on fire until he and his other superstar teammates matured and gelled as a unit and similarly lemeiux though great when starting out, didn't explode until he had some decent players but his team was never as stacked as gretzky's teams
i know gretzky only plays with 4 players at a time but when that team is so stacked, it's gonna create nightmares for the opposition to keep in check
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| Yewcandoit |
Posted - 12/07/2010 : 16:49:30
Just wanted to point out Mario's 2000-2003 seasons.
This was in the height of all the obstruction defense in the league. Mario didn't have such a great supporting cast, but was still lighting it up. |
| doublechamp7 |
Posted - 12/04/2010 : 09:59:08
Am I to assume Guest4967 name starts with a J and ends with a ohn Tavares |
| Guest4967 |
Posted - 12/04/2010 : 07:06:02
simple answer... YES he will no doubt double or triple it. |
| Hockeylover |
Posted - 12/04/2010 : 06:48:47
YOU are so stupid if you really think Tavares will shatter Gretzky's record.  Gretzky is a hundred times better then Tavares!
92 goals in one season.
YOU SUCK! 
 |
| Awesome One |
Posted - 11/26/2010 : 15:19:33
quote:
Originally posted by hockeyrocks101
No way in blue hell. Most likley Crosby, Ovechkin and stammer won't break those records.
Nailed it!
There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs". |
| hockeyrocks101 |
Posted - 11/26/2010 : 15:16:57
No way in blue hell. Most likley Crosby, Ovechkin and stammer won't break those records. |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 10/16/2010 : 00:19:44
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9107
Remember how was the goaler at that time... they was enable to stop a beach ball... nobody, with the actual rules in the NHL, will beat the Gretzky and the Lemieux seasons.
Yah, what he said.
P.S. can we get this guy a spell check
I think this topic should be killed, as 1st year stats show, Tavares is no Gretzky. Just another minor league superstar with potential. |
| Guest9107 |
Posted - 10/14/2010 : 20:39:56
Remember how was the goaler at that time... they was enable to stop a beach ball... nobody, with the actual rules in the NHL, will beat the Gretzky and the Lemieux seasons. |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 10/14/2010 : 09:33:29
Well, let me help a little.
Through Gretzky's time in Edmonton, he spent the vast majority of his playing time with Jari Kurri. The other winger was generally a committee of people including the likes of Semenko, McClelland, Tikkanen, blah, blah,blah. Gretzky played very little time with Messier and almost no time with Anderson. The defense pairing with Gretzky was Coffey and Huddy until Coffey left and then it was a committee of guys including Lowe, Huddy, Muni, Smith.
Lemieux play almost exclusively with Jagr and often had Tochett, Recchi, or Trottier on his other wing. He also played a significant amount of his time with Coffey and Murphy.
So the comparisons are really close. Both had some wicked awesome linemates. It wasn't like Lemieux was carrying a group of Junior B players when he was dropping his huge numbers. |
| Guest3372 |
Posted - 10/13/2010 : 14:59:50
i dunno, i'd probably have to google the lineups that gretz and mario had when they had the big 215 and 199 point seasons and see - gretzky didn't go on fire until he and his other superstar teammates matured and gelled as a unit and similarly lemeiux though great when starting out, didn't explode until he had some decent players but his team was never as stacked as gretzky's teams
i know gretzky only plays with 4 players at a time but when that team is so stacked, it's gonna create nightmares for the opposition to keep in check |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 10/12/2010 : 13:01:08
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Sigh, again??
Tell me a single Super-Duper star that did not also have talent around them??
Orr?? - Esposito, Bucyk, Hodge
Lemieux?? - Jagr, Coffey, Trottier, Francis
Yzerman?? - Lidstrom, Shanahan, Fedorov
The list goes on and one. I do appreciate that the Oilers were really sick top to bottom, but Gretzky was only playing with 4 other players at the same time, not the whole team.
C'mon Beans, realize the truth when it's told! It's pretty obvious it had everything to do with the players around him. That's why he only averaged 1.7 points per game with LA |
| Beans15 |
Posted - 10/12/2010 : 12:09:42
Sigh, again??
Tell me a single Super-Duper star that did not also have talent around them??
Orr?? - Esposito, Bucyk, Hodge
Lemieux?? - Jagr, Coffey, Trottier, Francis
Yzerman?? - Lidstrom, Shanahan, Fedorov
The list goes on and one. I do appreciate that the Oilers were really sick top to bottom, but Gretzky was only playing with 4 other players at the same time, not the whole team. |
| Guest3372 |
Posted - 10/12/2010 : 11:39:30
all the players mentioned are great players to be sure but as great as gretzky was, let's not forgot about the players surrounding the great players - that edmonton team was stacked all around and they were a great team in the couple of years after gretzky got traded and even won another cup and many of the core players that got scattered around the league also picked up another cup afterwards, so gretzky was great but he had a hell of a team to play with |
| ToXXiK1 |
Posted - 10/12/2010 : 09:22:07
wow, is that the best you can do? Is that the extent of your hockey knowledge and contribution to the board? Beans happens to know what he's talking about, unlike your inciteful mind of hockey godliness. Save the crude comments for some other board, they are neither welcome or needed. |
| Guest7409 |
Posted - 10/12/2010 : 06:13:18
Which of Gretzky's records are we talking about? The 500 empty net goals? |
| ToXXiK1 |
Posted - 10/12/2010 : 02:27:45
Tavares ~ Out with conc syndrome............ |
| Alex116 |
Posted - 10/12/2010 : 00:33:58
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
what a dumb question ...will tavares ever break gretzkys record ?? There was only 1 Gretzky and maybe never be another Gretzky. No-one ever seen the ice like this guy except for Bobby Orr. All i hear these days is todays game..bs..todays game a defenseman can`t touch a foward and he is in the penalty box, fowards now have free reign to go to the net. People seem to forget that Gretzky / Lemieux / and Orr accomplished all these great feats with a hockey stick either in their guts or up under their arm-pits, while being slashed on their arms...DON``T FORGET THAT !!! not so much to do with the game, these hockey players were the Michael Jordans, Babe Ruths of hockey. Players like this may only come once every 50 years in any sport.
Damn you Duke....we just agree on sumthin'??? |
| Hockeylover |
Posted - 10/11/2010 : 18:20:22
SO
Stupid!!!!!!!!! |
| The Duke |
Posted - 08/31/2010 : 14:59:37
what a dumb question ...will tavares ever break gretzkys record ?? There was only 1 Gretzky and maybe never be another Gretzky. No-one ever seen the ice like this guy except for Bobby Orr. All i hear these days is todays game..bs..todays game a defenseman can`t touch a foward and he is in the penalty box, fowards now have free reign to go to the net. People seem to forget that Gretzky / Lemieux / and Orr accomplished all these great feats with a hockey stick either in their guts or up under their arm-pits, while being slashed on their arms...DON``T FORGET THAT !!! not so much to do with the game, these hockey players were the Michael Jordans, Babe Ruths of hockey. Players like this may only come once every 50 years in any sport. |
| Guest7924 |
Posted - 08/30/2010 : 13:19:50
I agree...stupid topicand my response is more towards the Lemieux/ Gretz debate
I just finished reading this book on the 1987 Canada Cup and Gretz says it himself. Mario Lemieux is the most talented hockey player he ever played with or against. Gretz is a pretty humble guy so you obviously have to take that comment with a grain of salt, but when Mario was playing the guy rarely practiced and smoked in between periods, had Hodgkins Disease and a herniated disc in his back. Rick Tochett said Mario had to have the trainer tie up his skates before every game because it was to painful to bend over....then he go out there and dominate.
When people talk about greatest ever...it's hard to argue against a guy who has more assists than the next guy has points but a healthy Lemieux would have been incredible.
As for todays game...it would be difficult to compare the two games. Fitness, preperation, goaltending, equipment all these components of the game have drastically changed between the two eras.
FitnessPlayers didn't train the way they do today. Todays athletes are in much better shape...and everyone is in shape. |
| Guest9023 |
Posted - 08/29/2010 : 02:07:05
This is a great forum topic because such a dumb ass question got a lot of long and thought out responses... Many bored people at home in front of their computers (yes, me too). Soooooo..... the jokes on us i guess... |
| Deaner |
Posted - 08/20/2010 : 18:24:56
what a stupid poll... |
| Canuckswillrule |
Posted - 10/18/2009 : 15:17:34
So true.quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
The league was higher scoring in Gretzky's time, but even if you adjust the numbers, a 200 point season today is out of the question. As a previous poster cited, under the rules and structure of the game today, I don't think it's possible. Even a Gretzky or a Lemieux in their prime wouldn't get a 200 point season today.
Without going into a ton of specifics,the NHL through the 80's averaged about 7.5 goals per game.(in Gretzky's prime). In 07/08, it was around 6. So, consider that today's scoring is 20% less than it was in the 80's.
That means Gretzky's 215 points in a season would be around 172 points today. Conversly, Ovechkin's 112 points last season would translate into about 135 points back in the 80's. Consider that the year Gretzky had 215, there were 3 other players with 130+ points. Not much different than the players who are tops in the league today.
IF Tavares (or any other player for that matter) was to eclipse the 160 point plateau in today's NHL, it would be unreal. And, if someone was to eclipe the 215 point plateau in today's NHL(which will not happen), it would be similar to a player in the 80's scoring 260 points. Nothing like a 3+ PPG average for a season, hey!!
Simply put, never going to happen.
JustinMichalec |
| brentrock2 |
Posted - 10/17/2009 : 04:15:06
Well I obvuiosly say no but in 2 or 3 years time he will matbe be a 90-100 point player.
HABS RULE!!
brentrock2 |
| irvine |
Posted - 10/16/2009 : 22:32:30
Very silly topic, sorry.
Irvine |
| Guest8461 |
Posted - 05/03/2009 : 02:56:54
I will assume that your numbers are correct. If we do not look at the percentage of superstars on each team, is the talent pool deeper today than in the 70´s? So what would happen if the NHL backed down to 24 teams? The quality of the hockey played would be better but the systems would still be in place. |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 05/02/2009 : 16:22:33
Lets see if I can get you on board with my watered down point here. NHL has 10 Elite Players 50 top TierA players and 100 TierB players.
600 (20 per team)play in the league right now. Thats 440 roll players and fillers 73.33%. Back that total down by 20% to a 24 team league and 480 players or 66.66% that are roll players or fillers. Your have just as many elite players and top Tier players but they would be more grouped on teams allowing your Elite players more ice to score. Can't send your shutdown-checking line out every shift if line's 1 - 3 are a threat.
One more point to drive it home, I'll agree todays players are better athletes. Probably can play more ice time, run 50 miles a day and bench press a car. The system they are forced to play in because of the thin talent pool means that offensive superstars are now back checkers and can't totally commit offense. Doesn't allow for alot of creative plays.
I've heard of players being punished because they have 1 track mind for offense. Some wont pull the trigger or will sit back out of the offensive zone to prevent an emberassing play that will get them benched. |
| Guest8464 |
Posted - 05/02/2009 : 14:39:38
I understand what you are saying now and I agree about the systems being an obstacle. However I can not agree that the NHL is watered down today. Maybe you should do some research on where the systems came from in the first place. Oh and back on topic there is no way in hell Tavares breaks Gretzkys records. |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 05/02/2009 : 12:32:40
Let me clarify. I do not ever foresee anyone ever breaking the stats of Gretzky, ever. But, if the right player and the right set of rules and the talent behind him was as deep as the Islanders, Oilers and Penguins francises were? It could happen. This topic was could Tavares do it and I said 1 in a million chance. |
| Guest8465 |
Posted - 05/02/2009 : 12:03:39
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
By the way hockey systems were created by coach's to slow down players like Wayne and Mario. The real reason they are still used today is the NHL has a watered down Player pool, compared to what is had in the late 70's to 92-93. I dont care how fit they are just how talented they are. I would take a healthy Pavel Bure over any player playing today.
If the league retracted to a 24 team league and teams could sign as many stars as they could back then without a cap system. Only thing to stop a talented player like Ovie or Malkin from breaking the records set by Wayne is the systems set up to stop wayne and Mario in the first place.
Hahahaha You do not have any idea what you are talking about, do you? |
| JOSHUACANADA |
Posted - 05/02/2009 : 11:36:28
Wow lotta discussion about Wayne not alot about Tavares here. Is he gonna be a great player 50/50 is he gonna be the next great one 1/1000000. I do agree Wayne, Bobbi and Mario set in a class of their own
By the way hockey systems were created by coach's to slow down players like Wayne and Mario. The real reason they are still used today is the NHL has a watered down Player pool, compared to what is had in the late 70's to 92-93. I dont care how fit they are just how talented they are. I would take a healthy Pavel Bure over any player playing today.
If the league retracted to a 24 team league and teams could sign as many stars as they could back then without a cap system. Only thing to stop a talented player like Ovie or Malkin from breaking the records set by Wayne is the systems set up to stop wayne and Mario in the first place. |
| Rambo2305 |
Posted - 04/28/2009 : 07:35:29
Whatever happend to a simple...NO!
Tavares is good, but not that good. If he does go to the Islanders, he won't reach 100 points this year, maybe even not 90, he'll have no one solid to paly with. Every year in the OHL, he's had at least one or two 100+ point players on the team. Again, good, but never like Wayne...
"Everytime you step out onto the ice, it's a clean slate, anyone can win" |
| Guest2899 |
Posted - 04/25/2009 : 07:26:53
The only way anyone evr breaks that record is if the make the season 150 games.Its hard enough now to score 100 points in a season,never mind 200. |
