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Guest4803
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 Posted - 10/22/2010 : 10:28:23
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| Canucks fined 25 000, maybe the league could donate that to minnesota so they could install a proper tunnel, minnesota assistant coaches have mentioned that theyve had issues with the visitors bench and the fans in the past, the organization had a cover for the tunnel which they failed to have in place and are the only team in the nhl without a barrier in the location of the incident that took place, id like to see the wild organization fined for not properly protecting their Fans and the opposing teams bench, if there was a barrier in place rypien wouldnt of had the oppurtunity to scare the #$@ out of that fan like he did. it be like the canucks taking the glass out of the oppositions penalty box and letting the green men do their thing, sooner or later someone would be tempted to grab one. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2010 : 10:32:52
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So now it's the Wild's fault that Rypien couldn't control himself??
Seriously, what an absolutely joke.
Does the NBA have to put up a protective barrier between courtside seats and the court because of violence between players and fans??
Get a grip.
The teams that choose to have barriers up do that to protect the opposition team from fans throwing things from the stands. They don't put that barrier up so that fans and players don't fight???
You know what the best part of this is??? A 6 game suspension works out to be about 40 minutes of ice time for Rypien. The plug that he is only gets about 7 minutes a game. Oh sorry, I mean the brilliant-4th line-penalty killing messiah that he is only needs 7 minutes of ice time a game to make the impact he needs to make. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2010 : 10:33:25
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quote:
It's not a fluke that the people attempting any kind of justification are Canuck fans.
Actually Beans, thats my point entirely. Excluding anonymous posters, there has been no attempt at any justification. In this thread. At all.
Here is a recap of what was said, at least by me and Alex, as far as I can tell:
- Rypien did wrong, and should be suspended for some lengthy period of time.
- there is no excuse for what Rypien did
- I am shocked by some sports media coming to his defense in any way shape or form
- the Canuck organization, as a whole, is blameless here, as this was the unforseen and unsanctioned actions of an individual
- the Canucks will likely agree with any action taken by the league, and when his suspension is over he'll be welcomed back to the team.
- (to paraphrase Alex) - people on teams do stupid things sometimes, and it reflects badly on the team.
Please, find the post here where I justify, even remotely, what Rypien has done. |
Edited by - nuxfan on 10/22/2010 10:34:51 |
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semin-rules
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1915 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2010 : 11:05:11
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| He got six games |
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ToXXiK1
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
696 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2010 : 11:13:53
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One had a fan attack the player, the other a player attacked a fan.
How can you put these to in the same catagory?
(Domi / Rypkin) |
Edited by - ToXXiK1 on 10/22/2010 11:29:05 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2010 : 11:14:57
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Nuxfan, I will agree that you have not justified the actions. However, you have said in various posts that it's is his first offense which has to be taken into consideration. Furthermore, you say that Vancouver if blameless in the situation.
Firstly, I don't care if this is his 1st or 50th situation, one is too many when it comes to getting involved with a fan. Period. It is comparative to a Walmart greeter grabbing a customer. The fans are the NHL bread and butter and no fans means not game. You don't crap where you eat.
Secondly, the Canucks are at fault by association regardless of you wanting to believe that or not. No one is saying that the Canucks could have or should have done something to prevent this. Some might be able to argue that if Rypien, being the stand up guy that everyone say he is, was so enraged that he required to be held back by his own teams mates on the ice that he might have been escorted to the dressing room. I would not be one of those people, but it could be an argument.
Regardless, he is a Canuck, is he not?? He was wearing their jersey when it happen, right??? Again, not saying the Canucks could have done something to stop it or created the situation. However, they are involved weather you like it or not. When their coach and a team mate justify/support Rypien's actions, it goes even further. Sure, after the suspension they say all the right things, but why did they not say these things before??? Much like the Avery situation, the Stars made clear statements as soon as it happened that they would deal with the player if they felt the NHL was not severe enough and they did not support what the player did.
That is were the Canucks are not responsible for the situation but do have an obligation to handle it properly, which I don't believe they did. |
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Guest4803
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Posted - 10/22/2010 : 11:15:28
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| Beans if this was the other way around, you would be harping on the Canucks organization for not protecting their Fans and the opposing team. The wild organization had a cover yet failed to have it in place? why have it if your not going to use it. Someone goes into a store that has wet floors but fails to put out signage, the person slips and falls into someone who ends up breaking their leg? their fault or the owner for not having taken the proper measures to prevent such a thing from happening? This was totally preventable from the get go. If this wasnt about the Canucks i doubt you would have a comment. Even long time oiler Mctavish puts the blame on the Wild organization. What Rypien did was wrong no doubt about it, but it was just a little push which could of easily been prevented. Its only a big deal because it was a Vancouver player, had this been a game between florida and carolina no one would still be talking about it. |
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ToXXiK1
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
696 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2010 : 11:27:52
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| Am I mistaken, or does the "protective" barrier only go up between periods and at the begining and end of the game due to impairing fan vision? |
Edited by - ToXXiK1 on 10/22/2010 11:30:05 |
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Guest4803
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Posted - 10/22/2010 : 11:52:10
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| how does a cover over the tunnel block the view of the fans? get of your high horses, if minnesota had a barrier like everyone else this wouldnt happen. Rypien in the heat of the moment made a mistake, he is now suspended 6 games and its all over. All im saying is that its up to the Organization to also make sure that their Fans are protected, if they decide they dont need a barrier to keep the fans from the players its their choice and they should hold some responsibilty. |
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ToXXiK1
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
696 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2010 : 11:57:59
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| It's a black tunnel cover, that comes to the boards. If you paid big bucks for 2, 3 or 4th rows behind the bench, you can't see up the ice. Sorry, getting dizzy from the height of my horse...... |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2010 : 12:11:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4803
Beans if this was the other way around, you would be harping on the Canucks organization for not protecting their Fans and the opposing team. The wild organization had a cover yet failed to have it in place? why have it if your not going to use it. Someone goes into a store that has wet floors but fails to put out signage, the person slips and falls into someone who ends up breaking their leg? their fault or the owner for not having taken the proper measures to prevent such a thing from happening? This was totally preventable from the get go. If this wasnt about the Canucks i doubt you would have a comment. Even long time oiler Mctavish puts the blame on the Wild organization. What Rypien did was wrong no doubt about it, but it was just a little push which could of easily been prevented. Its only a big deal because it was a Vancouver player, had this been a game between florida and carolina no one would still be talking about it.
I don't care what Craig MacTavish said, I don't agree. The Oilers have the type of barricade you speak of as well as various other teams in the league. However, the only time the barrier is up is when the teams are entering or exiting the ice. It is not up while the period is being played.
Again, explain how the NBA does not need any barrier?? Baseball has a barricade that is below the waist and players often fall into the crowd. Lambeau Leap anyone?? Why does the NHL and only the NHL require these kinds of barricades???
The comparison of someone slipping on a floor is ridiculous and not even close to a comparison.
What a better comparison would be is you are walking by your neighbors house and he is in the middle of a dispute with his wife in his front yard. Dude is jack up and yelling and shouting. As the guy is walking to his car you say, 'Wow, you are pretty upset aren't you?" The guy walks up to you and kicks you in the crotch.
I guess there should have been a barricade there, hey????
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2010 : 12:29:05
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quote:
Nuxfan, I will agree that you have not justified the actions. However, you have said in various posts that it's is his first offense which has to be taken into consideration. Furthermore, you say that Vancouver if blameless in the situation.
1. It is his first offense, and that should be (and apparently was) taken into consideration with the length of the suspension. I think that mentality should be applied to nearly* any infraction that happens, regardless of the player or the team he plays for. Second chances are for everyone.
* (I say nearly, because there are obviously infractions that are totally unforgivable - where real physical harm comes to someone else. Bertuzzi is a good example where you throw the book at someone no matter how many times he's been disciplined. Had Rypien really done some physical damage I would be signing a different tune as well).
2. Vancouver involved with the incident because Rypien is a member of the team - yes. Vancouver to be blamed for the incident - no. There is a difference between the two. You can see what you want to see I suppose.
The only comments regarding the incident came immediatly after the game, before anyone had really had a look at what happened and the heat of the moment was still high - I think there was some belief at the time that the fan had instigated the event. Malhotra blamed the fan, AV claimed ignorance. However, once the replays had been done and it was clear what had happened, there were no attempts at defending actions. The Canucks have been very open that they expected the hearing to go as it did, and that they are satisfied with the punishment meted out by the league.
I don't think I would expect any other team to handle the situation any differently.
quote:
Am I mistaken, or does the "protective" barrier only go up between periods and at the begining and end of the game due to impairing fan vision?
Toxxik, I believe that the canopy goes up anytime a player is ejected from the game as well - however things happened so quickly that I don't think the stadium had the chance to get it out. Rypien went from being on the ice to the tunnel in about 5 seconds...
You can argue all you like about it being a factor in the events that unfolded, but ultimately, you should not need a barrier in place to keep players off of fans... |
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Guest4803
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Posted - 10/22/2010 : 12:29:46
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| beans no offence but you shouldnt be a mod, you dont moderate you just complain and complain and complain, nba players dont carry sticks or fight on a night to night basis and when they do fight they look like a bunch of cyclists slapping at eachother. and you will notice there are barriers when the teams walk off the court and there usually is quite a bit of room between players and fans. There is an obvious lack of protection behind the Oppositions bench in Minnesota and even the Wild coachs and Management admit to that and have said they would like to see a piece of glass put in to prevent anything of the sort from happening. It was a little push cmon. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2010 : 12:31:43
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Beans, you too need to reread this entire thread i'd say? Either you didn't comprehend what i've been saying, or your absolute hatred towards everything to do with the Canucks is affecting your comprehension?
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Alex, I did read your post very clearly and I have to agree to about 95% of what Slozo said. I believe that if this was to have involved a different player and a different team than you views(as well as Nuxfans) would be completely different.
Why would my view be different? Let's review what i said.....
1. "While i have to assume the fan did in fact say somthing, it makes no difference. No way should this ever occur!!"
2. There's just no excuse!
3. While i know things happen "in the heat of the moment", this, as well as the late punch he threw in that melee looks really bad and doesn't shed a good light on the entire team / organization.
4. Again, i don't condone what Rypien did, but i don't think it warrants him being exiled from hockey, kicked off his team, etc.
5. Yes, it looks bad on the organization (Canucks) but so do a lot of things that happen to every team.
6. Either way, it still looked bad for the organization / team, regardless of the reasons he did it for.
And finally, from another thread (maybe you missed this cuz surely you would have called me out for the Burrows / Auger reference?)....
Gus.....Doubt the fan spat on him or else we'd have heard about it by now? I think, at worst, the fan might have heckled him and the rest of the team from the drop of the puck? IF that's the worst he did, Rypien was WAY outta line! If he spat on him, threw beer on him, etc, he still shouldn't have done what he did but i could see the league going easier on him. From what i've seen / heard, at most, it was verbal and Rypien snapped!
I really think the league will use this to set a new precedence that things like this won't be tolerated. Throw in the likeliness that the league is still bitter towards the Canucks over the Burrows / Auger incident, and i see it as, and voted for 10+.
So, to both you and Slozo, please feel free to point me towards the parts of my comments that make you believe that my views are as they are because it's involving the Canucks? Are you trying to tell me that if it were a Leaf's or Oilers player that i'd say the suspension should be 2 games? Or that it didn't look bad on the organization??? You guys really aren't making much sense here. Please feel free to enlighten me. 
Slozo, lemme fill you in on something you clearly missed. My bringing up the other incidents was not to directly compare them to this one. It was to support my view that even though the Canucks couldn't have seen this coming and therefore couldn't have prevented it, IT STILL looks bad and sheds a bad light on the entire organization?
As far as the teammate and / or coach sticking up for him, can you supply a quote or a vid of this? I've not seen it, but i'd be willing to bet that no one said "he was right to do this" or "the fan deserved what he got" or "Ryp's the man, he shoulda killed that guy", etc, etc. I'd be willing to bet that it was more along the lines of "he was frustrated, it wasn't the right thing to do, but he's one of us and we've got his back". That, in case you don't understand the team concept, is what teams do. They stick up for one another in good times and bad.
You two (Beans / Slozo) are sometimes difficult to understand. If i missed somewhere in all this where i was defending Rypien's actions, justifying them in any way, calling for a light suspension, etc. then my apologies for my rant. But from everything i've read here, you guys have misjudged pretty much everything i've said about it.
Before i finish, and keep in mind this is a "what if" scenario and take it for what it's worth (seeing as the last one regarding Doan's elbow was obviously not understood), but lemme ask the two of you this: Clearly you both say Rypien should be removed from the team / organization, etc. What if it were Henrik? Same opinion? What if it were Kessel in TO? Same opinion? How 'bout Hall/Paarjarvi/Eberle or even Gretzky back in the day? Same opinion? Hmmmmmm.....doubt it. 
You two are clearly very anti-fighting / anti-goon / anti-enforcers, etc and are basing your views of what should happen by who it was involved! And please, don't just say "this would never happen with one of those guys...." 
Try leaving your Canucks hatred out of this for a minute. From the comments you've made towards my posts / opinions, the only conclusion i can come to is that this hatred towards is simply clouding your view of everything i've said. |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2010 : 18:11:13
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The only two players that I saw not playing with the team after an incident was Sean Avery with Dallas and Marty McSorley with the whole league after he slash Brashear.
What Rypien did was bad, but I don't think it was that bad. Barnaby did a very similar thing back in 2000, got 4 or 5 games for it, came back and played. Rypien, 10 years later, grabs a fan by the shirt, nothing more, the fan is not hurt. So yes Rypien deserve his suspension and could of easily got up to 10. And I agree a professionnal should never lose his control, especially to the extent of grabbing a paying fan. But the fan is not hurt, maybe his feelings but not physically. Remember when Ovechkin snowed that kid, most people were like well the kid will probably go home and be I got snowed by Ovechkin and be proud of that. Well this guy here is way older, and even though there is a physical contact he was not hit or anything, so are you saying that he will go out and tell his friends hey look I got grabbed by Rypien. So I just hope it stops there, Rypien goes out, serve his suspension, come back and play for the oranization.
Remember Milbury, he went in the crowd, hit a fan with his shoe and he went on finish his career, then kept going as a coach and now as a commentator on National TV.
Remember Rob Ray with a fan around the bench, yeah the fan jumped on the ice and went toward the bench but he didn't deserve to get hit 15 times by Rob Ray.
Remember the fan who was running on the ice and the referee, of all people, comes charging him with a headbutt right on the fans back and the fan flew into the board.
And the story Tiger Williams said about him smacking a fan with his stick and the fan was unconsious and busted open.
Many Many incidents were worst then that and the guy went on and finnished his career. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2010 : 09:25:20
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Well, it's appears that some may have been offended by my argument and if that is the case, my apolgies. When I see people making statements of, "yada yada yada but, yada yada yada but, yada yada yada but, yada yada yada but" it's my definition of justification. The argument that I read was designed to say, "Ya, it was wrong, BUT it's not that bad." If I misunderstood the argument as a justification, then I apologize.
What I believe I am guilty of is my opinion that a professional should act like a professional at all times and that any contact with a fan that is malicious in nature is unacceptable. I don't care who the player is, what team they played for, what the fan did to provoke the player, how many others have done it in the past, or anything else. I simply believe it is unacceptable and I would not want a player like that playing on my team or the team I cheer for.
Done. |
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Guest4073
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Posted - 10/24/2010 : 12:16:32
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| It was a stupid thing for rypien to do, he was in the heat of the moment and should have acted better in that situaton, but I woul blmehim the guy was lipping hm off when he was walking off. Then in his comments, he goes on saying "Its a job and If i did that I would be fired." Being a pro hockey player is not a regular job! and then this guy says gary bettman is a good guy? He must not be a fan at all, I have never heard anything good said about him. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2010 : 19:16:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Well, it's appears that some may have been offended by my argument and if that is the case, my apolgies. When I see people making statements of, "yada yada yada but, yada yada yada but, yada yada yada but, yada yada yada but" it's my definition of justification. The argument that I read was designed to say, "Ya, it was wrong, BUT it's not that bad." If I misunderstood the argument as a justification, then I apologize.
What I believe I am guilty of is my opinion that a professional should act like a professional at all times and that any contact with a fan that is malicious in nature is unacceptable. I don't care who the player is, what team they played for, what the fan did to provoke the player, how many others have done it in the past, or anything else. I simply believe it is unacceptable and I would not want a player like that playing on my team or the team I cheer for.
Done.
Beans, i wasn't really offended (assuming i'm one of the yada yada yada guys you're referring to?) by your comments, just shocked. I still fail to see how you misinterpretted my comments, that's all.
I'm a little surprised the suspension isn't longer but with the NHL, nothing really should surprise me! Regardless, what he did was wrong and he's now paying the price but going forward, i'll have no prob cheering for him. Some people make it seem like he murdered the fan!!! |
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ToXXiK1
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
696 Posts |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2010 : 05:36:49
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I have had to delete a reply here from a guest who chose to only utter base insults here . . . folks, please remember this is a discussion forum.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest7792
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Posted - 10/27/2010 : 09:30:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4803
beans no offence but you shouldnt be a mod, you dont moderate you just complain and complain and complain, nba players dont carry sticks or fight on a night to night basis and when they do fight they look like a bunch of cyclists slapping at eachother. and you will notice there are barriers when the teams walk off the court and there usually is quite a bit of room between players and fans. There is an obvious lack of protection behind the Oppositions bench in Minnesota and even the Wild coachs and Management admit to that and have said they would like to see a piece of glass put in to prevent anything of the sort from happening. It was a little push cmon.
Agreed. He is a Vancouver hating [Mod Edit - Inappropriate Comment] |
Edited by - Beans15 on 10/27/2010 09:33:39 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2010 : 09:38:46
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I appreciate the acknowledgement from the peanut gallery. If you recognize my dislike for the Canucks then I am doing exactly what I am intending on doing. I make me even happier when people can not debate me straight up so they settle name calling. You made my day. I've always stated I dislike the Canucks and make no apologies for it.
Now, to finalize this whole Rypien thing, he did the classy thing the other day when he took responsibility for his actions. I found it very sincere and I do believe him when he said he was sorry and that he would never do something like this again. This is exactly what punishment is designed to do. Help people learn from their mistakes.
This was a classy act from a guy who did a very unclassy action. I still think 10 games would have been more fitting for the action but if he gets it with 6 games, so be it. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2010 : 10:44:33
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Oh yeah, so classy for Rypien to make/release a prepared statement days afterward to put out damage control, that may or may not have been done at the insistence of the NHL after his complete failure to do so immediately.
Real classy alright. Stay classy, Rypien!
According to some of the guests and posters from Vancouver, the players have no responsibility for their actions, because they are allowed to fight more than other sports; the arena owners are at fault for not barricading more effectively these enraged and out of control beasts called hockey players from the paying guests; and finally, if the attack on a paying fan results in no injury, or is deemed "not that bad", then well, suck it up buttercup - you, as the fan, are in play!
Stay classy, Vancouver.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2010 : 12:10:56
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Sounds like someone doesn't think that Rypien's apology was sincere!!
Maybe you are right. I know that in many cases players/people are told to avoid public statement acknowledging their wrong doing until after the punishment as some people feel and apology is an assumption of guilt.
However, the other comments made by Slozo I can't help but agree with.
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2010 : 12:31:09
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Who, exactly, did he apologize to? I believe it was directed towards his teammates and the Canucks' organization, rather than the poor shmuck he grabbed.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2011. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2010 : 12:44:57
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quote:
I know that in many cases players/people are told to avoid public statement acknowledging their wrong doing until after the punishment as some people feel and apology is an assumption of guilt.
This has been the case with the NHL in the past for suspend-able incidents, and by all accounts Rypien was specifically asked to not talk about the incident until after the meeting with the NHL (asked by both the NHL and the team). He pretty much spoke up as soon as he was allowed to do so.
I have always maintained that this was an out of character incident for Rypien, I'm glad that he has publically apologized. I'm also glad that he had the tact to not get into whatever transpired between him and the fan, and that he feels compelled to interact privately with the fan - whatever that means. |
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2010 : 12:57:58
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I am unsure whether to wade in on this or not. I had the pleasure of watching Rypien play some of his junior years, and captain, my home town Pats, and always did think of him as just that, a class act.
He was a bright spot with both effort and leadership, for the years he played here as well as being an involved community citizen.
Everyone interviewed from the league seemed to mirror exactly that regarding the player himself, a class act, a good team player, a good all around guy. Even Bettman went so far as to say that this was out of character for him and that had to be considered.
I'm not sure what else he could have done to try and alleviate the distaste for what happened. It was wrong and he knew it. He was disciplined and he apparently learned from it..
If second chances and forgiveness were not staples for what makes for benevolence, we might all be spending our days breaking rocks, as we have all made questionable decisions at one time or another.
The affected fan could learn from some of this, and perhaps realize that his 15 seconds of fame, don't really mean anything when it comes to having an oppurtunity to show that same 'class', that some speak of with such vaunted reverence, he wasn't hurt, he wasn't assaulted, except in the loosest of terms, and he was offered some forms of placation from the league, as an apology for his experience. He chose to extend the affair with threats of legal proceedings. That seems to lack a certain amount of class to me, but that is my opinion alone.
The whole situation was a black mark, but in the big picture of our society, hardly one that cries for someone's head.
Before anyone jumps all over their interpretation of my comments, carefully realize, I agree totally that this was unacceptable behaviour, but I also totally agree with giving everyone the oppurtunity to atone for their actions, scripted or not.
Again if one action makes for a scarlet letter, we all better start wearing toques.....at least here in Saskatchewan(we got a foot of snow in Regina last night).
Just my thoughts on this sordid situation.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2010 : 15:24:33
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Oh yeah, so classy for Rypien to make/release a prepared statement days afterward to put out damage control, that may or may not have been done at the insistence of the NHL after his complete failure to do so immediately.
Real classy alright. Stay classy, Rypien!
Feel free to read nuxfan's comments as to why perhaps Rypien was silent as long as he was. Then, take into consideration ANY player, or famous person for that matter, who's in a similar situation and tell me they aren't ALWAYS (or damn near) a "prepared statement"!!! Sometimes i read comments and wonder if the person making them is simply trying to stir the pot???
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
According to some of the guests and posters from Vancouver, the players have no responsibility for their actions, because they are allowed to fight more than other sports; the arena owners are at fault for not barricading more effectively these enraged and out of control beasts called hockey players from the paying guests; and finally, if the attack on a paying fan results in no injury, or is deemed "not that bad", then well, suck it up buttercup - you, as the fan, are in play!
Stay classy, Vancouver.
Slozo, i'm a little offended as i'm clearly included in this group you're referring to as classless (in your sarcastic "stay classy" kind of way, likely in a sneaky way to skirt the rules regarding insulting other members). Kinda makes me laugh though as i try to figure out if you're the pot or the kettle? The way you've interpretted my comments, and likely others from this side of the fence, shows your desire to stir the pot, your hatred of the Canucks and your general lack of class. Well done..... |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2010 : 08:38:54
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Although I do see how someone could see Slozo's points as a shot, I read them as being kind of tongue in cheek.
That being said, Slozo is the not the only read to 'misinterpret' comments as justifying the actions of a player from the team some are a fan of. As often as some made a comment that he was wrong and deserved a punishment, those same people were also working hard at times to compare his actions to others in the past which does seem to be a justification, at least in my opinion.
Regardless, everyone has the opportunity to freely express their opinions in general, not personally. Slozo did not say anything personally to anyone and talked in general about the fans of a team and a group of people who share an opinion. We all have done it from regardless of what fans or team you support or do not support.
And who cares if someone wants to stir the pot and hates the Canucks??? How, in any way, shape or form, does the dislike for the Canucks or an affinity to stir up junk have any inpact on how classy of a person someone may be??? Really, it's seems like people have different views so that makes anyone with a view not like their own as 'not classy??"
Finally, I also see a ton of tongue in cheek about the number of times Slozo layed out the "Stay Classy, Vancouver" statement. Ron Burgandy anyone?? People need to chill out a little bit here. It's not that serious. It's hockey talk. Sheesh, could you imagine the panel on TSN with the passion that some on here show?? It would be a brawl every night. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2010 : 11:45:35
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At least someone got the Ron Burgundy reference . . . gin, gin, gin, I love gin . . . 
I do love indignation from Vancouver fans though . . . and love the irony of them saying that I am the pot calling the kettle black.
Irony, irony, irony . . . I love irony!
To Fat Elvis - 6 games is nothing for "attacking" a fan, no matter how gentle it is being phrased as. It is not a message of any kind to the fans other than 'meh', and it is certainly not a big deterrent.
I don't care if Rypien saved a bus full of children from a fiery death the day before this happened - he deserves a stiffer fine for this totally unnecessary and yes, classless act.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2010 : 12:53:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Although I do see how someone could see Slozo's points as a shot, I read them as being kind of tongue in cheek.
Good for you Beans, i see them in another way, basically an insulting way, "tongue in cheek" / "Ron Burgundy" or not, he's still referring to some of us as having no class. I guess i shouldn't overreact to his views of my comments when it's obvious he doesn't understand what i said?
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
That being said, Slozo is the not the only read to 'misinterpret' comments as justifying the actions of a player from the team some are a fan of. As often as some made a comment that he was wrong and deserved a punishment, those same people were also working hard at times to compare his actions to others in the past which does seem to be a justification, at least in my opinion.
Please tell me you're not talking about my post where i alluded to the Heatley, Domi and Bertuzzi incidents? If you are, please feel free to go back and read WHY i referenced these! BTW, you referenced an incident in one of your posts regarding Avery and the idiotic things he said and how much better the Stars handled things. So, it's okay for you to compare things but not us/me? FTR, even though my comparisons were not intended to defend Rypien (again, go read it over), yours is not a fair comparison in regards to what happened. As is obvious, the Canucks were dealing with a possible assault charge to Rypien, while the Stars were dealing with a moron making childish, immature comments. You think Elisha Cuthbert was maybe gonna sue? Cuz there's still a chance that the Minny fan might. Little different, no? If you can't see that, i'd hope you weren't my advisor if i ever got into some legal trouble!
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Regardless, everyone has the opportunity to freely express their opinions in general, not personally. Slozo did not say anything personally to anyone and talked in general about the fans of a team and a group of people who share an opinion. We all have done it from regardless of what fans or team you support or do not support.
Beans, you mods seem to stick up for one another conveniently at times like this. Good of you to stick together i suppose but clarify something for me. Are you allowed to insult someone as long as you don't specifically reference their name? Because, from what i read, that's pretty much what's been done. He's referenced my posts, and others, and deemed those who wrote them as classless, in his Ron Burgundy roundabout sort of way. Just seems like sometimes there's two sets of rules around here
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
And who cares if someone wants to stir the pot and hates the Canucks??? How, in any way, shape or form, does the dislike for the Canucks or an affinity to stir up junk have any inpact on how classy of a person someone may be??? Really, it's seems like people have different views so that makes anyone with a view not like their own as 'not classy??"
If someone wants to stir the pot and hate the Canucks, i really don't have a problem with it. You do it all the time. I don't even really care what Slozo thinks of me or my favorite hockey team, it's really not that big of a deal. However, if i have guidelines to follow around here whilst posting my opinions, i feel everyone should have the same ones to follow. It has nothing to do with peoples opinions differing, he clearly referenced certain posts and referred to those making them as having no class. I may not even be included in those who he was insulting as there have been numerous others, including guests, posting similar things, but that's beside the point.
What is abundantly clear to me though Beans, is that both you and Slozo completely missed my point in this entire thread. Proof of that is the fact that neither of you responded directly to my post on 10/22/2010 at 12:31:43 which challenged you both to reread the entire thread (especially my comments) and show me some examples of the stuff you were/are accusing me of! My only guess is that you realized you were wrong and that my comments weren't what you first interpretted them as! |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2010 : 18:11:45
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Hey Alex, have you ever watched Scarface?? Do remember that part when Tony goes to buy the drugs from the guy in the hotel and when he walks in the dealer goes, "You got the money??" Tony then say, "Ya, you got the stuff??" The dealer goes, "Ya, you got the money??" Then Tony says, "Do you want me to leave and come back in and we can do this all over again??"
Great movie. This situation reminds me of that scene.
Let me summerize:
1) I did reply to your post filled with comparisons. I read it as yada, yada, yada, but. Remember that?? You can tell me it says something else 10 more times and I will still read it how I read it.
2) If you are insulted by Slozo's comments toward those who justify Rypien's action, what it tells me is you are admitting to being part of that group. I am a little confused as to how you are continuously posting to prove how you have not/did not justify anything but you are offended by Slozo's comments towards people who justified the actions. If you didn't justify the actions, why are you offended by comments towards a group that did??
3)Slozo used very general terms when he made his comments towards people who justified Rypiens actions. He never used yours or any other names. The forum guideline states : "Personal attacks will not be tolerated." Slozo did not attack anyone personally nor did he use any other questionable and unwelcome comments( race, creed, color, religion, etc). If you still have issues, contact Admin. Ultimately, Slozo and I rarely see eye to eye on things and we have both called each other on questionable posts in the past. Don't believe me?? Again, contact Admin and ask him as he is the one normally between the 2 of us.
4) I was using the Avery contrast(it was not a comparison) to show two very different courses of action a team could take when one of their players does something unacceptable off the ice. I fail to see how this has anything to do with you getting in trouble with the law and requiring my help. First off, I am not a lawyer. Secondly, you could not afford my brilliance.
Stay Classy, Ron Burgandy............
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2010 : 18:43:28
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I have been trying to avoid posting in this topic as like Nuxfan and Alex116 have both said, it doesn't matter what we say we will just be called homer Canuck fans. I believe completly 100% that what Rypien did was wrong, stupid and that he should have received more than the 6 games he got. You all can take that any way you want to.
Beans you can take Slozo's comments which ever way you want as well, but I bet if he was dissing every single Oilers fan, you might feel the same way about them as we do.
I also agree that there should be some barracade between the stands and the away teams exit, Minnisota is the only arena in the league without one and there is no way this comes even close to happening if there is one thin piece of plexie glass in Rypiens way. Again not advocating what Rypien did, just making a comment that has also been made by Craig Mactavish, other NHL players and members of the Minnisota Wild organization who have said there has been several complaints about that lack of glass.
I am a fan of Rypien, I love the way he plays, some people may think that there is no room for guys like him, but I think that their is. He brings the team energy, don't you think that when the players see him beat the crap out of a guy twice his size it kind of inspires the team. I do I hope he comes back in a few games and continues to play the exact same way he did before.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2010 : 20:51:22
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
At least someone got the Ron Burgundy reference . . . gin, gin, gin, I love gin . . .
I do love indignation from Vancouver fans though . . . and love the irony of them saying that I am the pot calling the kettle black.
Irony, irony, irony . . . I love irony!
To Fat Elvis - 6 games is nothing for "attacking" a fan, no matter how gentle it is being phrased as. It is not a message of any kind to the fans other than 'meh', and it is certainly not a big deterrent.
I don't care if Rypien saved a bus full of children from a fiery death the day before this happened - he deserves a stiffer fine for this totally unnecessary and yes, classless act.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Methinks you may have forgot to add an 'in my opinion', disclaimer at the end there. 
I have no comment on how many games he did or should of got, my only consideration was for how quickly people were attacking Rypien's character and lack of 'class', as a person.
Obviously the act itself showed little of that class, but regardless, to make bold statements of him being put on waivers, and would never play on my team? That's starting to sound a lot like Beans' yada yada yada....
The fact is when he was here playing for the Pats, he was indeed a young man of class, very involved in the community, visiting schools, visiting hospitals, he even delivered a pizza to my house as part of a fund raising campaign the Pats did and we had a brief, but enjoyable chat and he was very charming and mannered.
The history of the league, and any other professional sport, is so chocked full of misbehaving miscreants, that to take a 1st time(I know, shouldn't matter if it's 1st or 50th), offender and make him the example because, in the opinion of some PUH posters, he's a nobody, easily replaceable, dime a dozen, yada yada yada, seems excessive.
It could have been much worse, the fan could of got Mibury'd and beat with his own shoe, and that only carried a 6 game suspension as well.
Again, I in no way condone what he did, but he got what was deemed enough, from the NHL, who are we to cry for more of his scalp, without any other foresight, than being over opinionated hockey fans, of which I am guilty as well.
I mean no disrespect to anyone by paraphrasing their comments, and I just hope the disrespect given Rypien as a person, based on this one incident, can be kept out of the equations as well.
Bad judgement and inexcusable? Definitely. Deserving of discipline? Again, definitely. Our job to judge someone we don't know based on a flash in time incident? No chance.
PS. and just to be fair, earlier it was mentioned that the Domi affair with the Philly fan had nothing in comparison, I though I'd add the clip, where the announcers state on the air that Domi 'initiated that', and 'looks like Domi got some shots in'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcgivAeVlI4
The following is quoted from Wikepedia:
"In the 2000–01 season Domi was involved in an incident with a fan. Domi, sitting in the penalty box, had sprayed a heckler with his water bottle, when an intoxicated Philadelphia Flyers fan (Chris Trumbore) began yelling at him and climbing up the glass. The glass panel gave way, and the fan fell into the box. The fan was not only pinned by Domi, but also took a few punches from him. No formal charges were laid, but the fan was ejected from the building, and Domi was fined (but not suspended) by the NHL."
Again, I'm in no way condoning Rypien's actions, and I am certainly not trying to make 'men of straw', I am only using this example as reference that it is indeed a relevant analogism, and should be recognized, not disregarded, as such.
There was nothing to support anything other than Tie Domi 'assaulted' a fan first by squirting water at them, regardless of the events following.
Both incidents sound like player initiated assaults to me, yet Domi's head never rolled, funny eh? |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2010 : 21:26:55
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
Alex, I would give up at this point. No matter what you (or I) say at this point on the subject - short of advocating a 40 game suspension and that the Canucks trade Rypien to Siberia yesterda - we're probably just going to be painted as biased Canucklheads...
Man, i'm a real idiot. I get handed the greatest advice in the history of hockey forums, and i ignore it. What a fool i am.
But, sorry, i'm gonna make one more attempt to clear things up. I really should quit, but until i feel that the two posters i'm arguing with comprehend what i've been saying, it's difficult to just let it be. Then again, what else can i do? I get the feeling you two are just being stubborn and are refusing to admit your mistakes in comprehension of my posts!
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
1) I did reply to your post filled with comparisons. I read it as yada, yada, yada, but. Remember that?? You can tell me it says something else 10 more times and I will still read it how I read it.
Beans, to which post was that reply directed? The one i posted with the comparisons which were actually only backing up my stance that yes indeed it (the Rypien incident) does make the entire organization look bad? If you in fact were replying to the post that i even supplied the time and date, then your response was beyond weak and really didn't have anything to do with what i said!
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
2) If you are insulted by Slozo's comments toward those who justify Rypien's action, what it tells me is you are admitting to being part of that group. I am a little confused as to how you are continuously posting to prove how you have not/did not justify anything but you are offended by Slozo's comments towards people who justified the actions. If you didn't justify the actions, why are you offended by comments towards a group that did??
Again, you've failed to comprehend. No where am i admitting to "being part of that group" nor am i offended by Slozo's comments to those justifying the actions. I'm offended because he's failed to make sense of what i've said and is bunching me in with that group. AGAIN, please feel free to reread the thread just up near the top of this page where i ask both you and him to show me where i've posted anything that implies i justified his actions AND show me some proof to back up your claims that i'd feel different if this were another team's player! For cryin' out loud, i was the one saying i think he'll get 10 games!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
3)Slozo used very general terms when he made his comments towards people who justified Rypiens actions. He never used yours or any other names. The forum guideline states : "Personal attacks will not be tolerated." Slozo did not attack anyone personally nor did he use any other questionable and unwelcome comments( race, creed, color, religion, etc). If you still have issues, contact Admin. Ultimately, Slozo and I rarely see eye to eye on things and we have both called each other on questionable posts in the past. Don't believe me?? Again, contact Admin and ask him as he is the one normally between the 2 of us.
Nowhere did i say the two of you don't often disagree. What i was getting at was the fact that when it comes to moderator duties / issues, you two "got each others backs" most of the time. No prob, i shouldn't expect any less. As for his comments, you are correct, he didn't actually name anyone. He simply made references to posts which made it obvious to whom his insulting sarcastic "stay classy" comments were directed. It'd be like me saying, and this is just an example, def not my opinion, "anyone who thinks Kesler is "a meatball" is a complete idiot. See, i didn't name anyone *cough cough* but i'm sure that in your "brilliance" which i couldn't afford, you could figure out who the comment would be directed to, no??? FTR, i knew the "contact Admin" would be forthcoming and actually forgot to mention in my post to "not bother with that advice" as i really don't wanna bother him with this issue. He's likely already reading this thread, shaking his head and preparing his "cut out the crap / get back on topic" post?
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
4) I was using the Avery contrast(it was not a comparison) to show two very different courses of action a team could take when one of their players does something unacceptable off the ice. I fail to see how this has anything to do with you getting in trouble with the law and requiring my help. First off, I am not a lawyer. Secondly, you could not afford my brilliance.
How convenient. You're contrasting, not comparing! BUT, my point, another you either missed or ignored, was that the incidents, while being similar in the fact they both occured off the ice, were very different and therefore likely handled differently as well. Basically what you're saying is that if Avery was a Canuck and Rypien a Star, the Canucks wouldn't have commented / apologized / reprimanded him publicly, but the Stars would have. Hogwash. The point i was trying to make, which i made very clear for you, is that Avery had little or no worry about legal action coming from his incident. Rypien on the other hand was told to keep his mouth shut for legal reasons.
I've had enough. Seriously, you two have ignored every question / request i've thrown your way(s) in this thread and rambled on trying to justify your own points. If you guys can't see that you've missed a lot here, then you're either not reading my posts or one of you is actually Brentrock. No, actually i think he'd even understand.....
Stay with it Scarface......
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2010 : 21:57:06
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Alright Alex, for someone who seemed to get pretty offended by what you considered to be personal attacks, you sure layed enough comments in that last post about how little I can comprehend things didn't ya. 
For the sake of this thread hopefully dying a very quick death, what ever it is you want to see me write, let me know. I'll write it just to end this. Honestly I am significantly past the point of caring anymore. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2010 : 22:28:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Alright Alex, for someone who seemed to get pretty offended by what you considered to be personal attacks, you sure layed enough comments in that last post about how little I can comprehend things didn't ya.
For the sake of this thread hopefully dying a very quick death, what ever it is you want to see me write, let me know. I'll write it just to end this. Honestly I am significantly past the point of caring anymore.
Forget it Beans.....you just don't get it. The fact you don't know what it is i've been after further proves my points. I mean, how many times do i need to ask the same questions and request the same things over and over. I refuse to waste any more time cutting and pasting and referencing what you've missed.
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2010 : 08:56:02
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No Alex, it is YOU that doesn't get it.
You are what is called in the psychology business, "projecting".
As moderators, Beans and I respond to accusations like you levelled by either saying yes, that guys wasn't following the rules/was being rude; or, as Beans did, state that no, I don't feel as a moderator that what he said warranted moderating.
So, I will ignore all of your statements concerning Beans, and deal with the ones you have made about me.
Point by Point!
1) your quote:
quote:
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Originally posted by Beans15
2) If you are insulted by Slozo's comments toward those who justify Rypien's action, what it tells me is you are admitting to being part of that group. I am a little confused as to how you are continuously posting to prove how you have not/did not justify anything but you are offended by Slozo's comments towards people who justified the actions. If you didn't justify the actions, why are you offended by comments towards a group that did??
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Again, you've failed to comprehend. No where am i admitting to "being part of that group" nor am i offended by Slozo's comments to those justifying the actions. I'm offended because he's failed to make sense of what i've said and is bunching me in with that group. AGAIN, please feel free to reread the thread just up near the top of this page where i ask both you and him to show me where i've posted anything that implies i justified his actions AND show me some proof to back up your claims that i'd feel different if this were another team's player! For cryin' out loud, i was the one saying i think he'll get 10 games!!!
Alex - please point out where I bunched you in with any group. Point to the specific phrase, the specific word please.
Point 2)
Your quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Beans15
3)Slozo used very general terms when he made his comments towards people who justified Rypiens actions. He never used yours or any other names. The forum guideline states : "Personal attacks will not be tolerated." Slozo did not attack anyone personally nor did he use any other questionable and unwelcome comments( race, creed, color, religion, etc). If you still have issues, contact Admin. Ultimately, Slozo and I rarely see eye to eye on things and we have both called each other on questionable posts in the past. Don't believe me?? Again, contact Admin and ask him as he is the one normally between the 2 of us.
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Nowhere did i say the two of you don't often disagree. What i was getting at was the fact that when it comes to moderator duties / issues, you two "got each others backs" most of the time. No prob, i shouldn't expect any less. As for his comments, you are correct, he didn't actually name anyone. He simply made references to posts which made it obvious to whom his insulting sarcastic "stay classy" comments were directed. It'd be like me saying, and this is just an example, def not my opinion, "anyone who thinks Kesler is "a meatball" is a complete idiot. See, i didn't name anyone *cough cough* but i'm sure that in your "brilliance" which i couldn't afford, you could figure out who the comment would be directed to, no??? FTR, i knew the "contact Admin" would be forthcoming and actually forgot to mention in my post to "not bother with that advice" as i really don't wanna bother him with this issue. He's likely already reading this thread, shaking his head and preparing his "cut out the crap / get back on topic" post?
Alex,
Firstly, if you mean that Beans and I have each other' back when it comes to mod issues because he didn't think that what I said was offensive, then I guess Beans got my back. Personally, I thought he was straightening you out on it the way he would have if you had gotten offended by another poster who wasn't a mod.
If you can prove that Beans defends comments made by myself that are worth deletion/moderation, then by all means, point them out. Send it to admin. Then, he can straighten you out on it, and you can declare that your random accusations aren't being taken seriously because the moderators all "got each other's backs".
Secondly, my "insulting" comments about stay classy Vancouver were, hilariously, in response to Beans himself making the statement that Rypien's statement was a classy move. It was just a comedical response to a statement that Beans made that I disagreed with. I find it quite telling that you somehow twisted this as well into me implying that I was directing my comments specifically at you . . . I mean, other than you perhaps living in Vancouver, which I can flatly state that I have absolutely no idea of.
Please point out the specific phrase, the specific words, which have you thinking that I am making a personal attack on you.
And if, in the end Alex, you can only point to tongue in cheek statements like "stay classy, Vancouver!", then I will be forced to bring a huge complaint against you, involving many more insulting statements made by YOU, towards myself and many others, much more demeaning that the absence of class. In this thread alone, there are many examples of these kinds of statements made by YOU.
And if you don't get it after all the work I have put into this post, I will give up on trying to cut and paste and explain why it is YOU that needs to be a little more reflective on what you are saying to people, and it is YOU that needs to read posts more carefully.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
Edited by - n/a on 10/29/2010 09:01:30 |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2010 : 10:57:04
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So, lemme get this straight....you now want ME to not only respond to your post but to reference certain quotes and examples to back up my opinions? You mean, after you refused to do exactly that for me? Yeah, sure, i'll get right on it....... Translation - you don't deserve a reply on your requests.
As for your threat.....
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
And if, in the end Alex, you can only point to tongue in cheek statements like "stay classy, Vancouver!", then I will be forced to bring a huge complaint against you, involving many more insulting statements made by YOU, towards myself and many others, much more demeaning that the absence of class. In this thread alone, there are many examples of these kinds of statements made by YOU.
Well, seeing as i'm done with you in regards to this post and in fact this entire thread, i suppose you can start typing your "huge complaint". I'm certainly not wasting any more of my time on this topic. I'm still shocked this all came about from a thread that ironically we agreed on in the first place (suspension)..... |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2010 : 11:18:29
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But Alex - I just DID do exactly that - go through the threads, and address your complainta against me one by one.
Can you not see that?!? Seriously?!? Or are you just upset at having your obvious assumptions and errors pointed out in a thread where you accused others of doing exactly what you yourself had been doing!?
You know, admitting when you have made a mistake would be seen as classy by me, not as a sign of weakness.
And . . . threat? Really?
Cripes.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Rypien grabs fan vs MIN 
