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Awesome One
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
505 Posts |
 Posted - 11/11/2010 : 09:58:41
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After last season's struggles, and having only half the point total of Stamkos this year, do you think we should start considering dropping him from the "big three" echleon and replacing him with Stamkos in those discussions?
There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs".
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Blackbetty
Top Prospect
Canada
3 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 10:26:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Awesome One
After last season's struggles, and having only half the point total of Stamkos this year, do you think we should start considering dropping him from the "big three" echleon and replacing him with Stamkos in those discussions?
There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs".
Absolutely. Stamkos is definitely above Malkin IMO, him and Toews are fighting for 3 place in my books. Toews not for points but leadership, grit and how he makes everyone else better. Either way there is still a big gap between 2 and 3. Crosby and Ovey shouldn't be allowed in pools.
"It's not about who you know, it's about who you blow" |
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bananas
Top Prospect
26 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 10:26:44
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In my mind he's no longer a top 5 player. I had him in my pool last year and I have him again this year and he's killing me.
Might not be his fault though. I think I saw him playing with Aaron Asham the other day. |
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Awesome One
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
505 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 10:29:54
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I also think Stamkos should be considered as a better player than Malkin, but I don't think Toews should be in these discussions quite yet.
Give him 2 or 3 more years.
There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs". |
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HawkinOilCountry
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
318 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 10:43:26
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Malkin went 7th and 8th overall in my pools this year. So a lot of of people are letting him fall out of the top 5, but he's still top 10. He was beaten out by:
Ovechkin
Crosby
Stamkos
Sedin H
Backstrom
Sedin D
Getzlaf (only in one pool)
The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal. |
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Awesome One
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
505 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 11:04:05
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My little brother took him at #3 overall in my pools but he also ended up with Stamkos.
Anyways, he's in last.
There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs". |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 11:48:01
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Awesome - I find it telling that you consider last year a "struggle" for Malkin - he finished with 77 points in 67 games - only a year removed from a 113 point season. Those are pretty awesome numbers for any player.
quote:
Might not be his fault though. I think I saw him playing with Aaron Asham the other day.
This has to be a huge consideration.
Stamkos is currently playing with St Louis and Lecavalier/Malone/Downie. Malkin is playing with a mixed bag of 3rd liners on a PIT team that is losing a lot - and he still has 12 points in 15 games.
Malkin's fault? Not really, its just what PIT has to play with right now, they have 2 superstars and a bunch of filler, and its tough trying to get points playing with the likes of Asham/Comrie/Cooke/Dupuis. Despite his point total, Malkin is a very gifted hockey player, playing with St Louis and Lecavalier he's probably at 1.5 PPG as well.
The Pens have one of the most lopsided lineups in the NHL right now. They have 35M tied up in 6 players - more than any other team in the NHL for their top 6 paycheques from what I can tell. They are likely going to find out how hard it is to win consistently without balance across your lineup - if they have a mediocre year this year, I would not be surprised to see Malkin on the block at the trade deadline or in the summer. |
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Awesome One
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
505 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 11:52:50
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
Awesome - I find it telling that you consider last year a "struggle" for Malkin - he finished with 77 points in 67 games - only a year removed from a 113 point season. Those are pretty awesome numbers for any player.
quote:
Might not be his fault though. I think I saw him playing with Aaron Asham the other day.
This has to be a huge consideration.
Stamkos is currently playing with St Louis and Lecavalier/Malone/Downie. Malkin is playing with a mixed bag of 3rd liners on a PIT team that is losing a lot - and he still has 12 points in 15 games.
Malkin's fault? Not really, its just what PIT has to play with right now, they have 2 superstars and a bunch of filler, and its tough trying to get points playing with the likes of Asham/Comrie/Cooke/Dupuis. Despite his point total, Malkin is a very gifted hockey player, playing with St Louis and Lecavalier he's probably at 1.5 PPG as well.
The Pens have one of the most lopsided lineups in the NHL right now. They have 35M tied up in 6 players - more than any other team in the NHL for their top 6 paycheques from what I can tell. They are likely going to find out how hard it is to win consistently without balance across your lineup - if they have a mediocre year this year, I would not be surprised to see Malkin on the block at the trade deadline or in the summer.
Those are some very good points Nux.
I think it's all in the linemates, if Crosby and Malkin played on the same line, they would easily been able to crack 130 points last year.
Regardless, Stamkos is better.
There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs". |
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 12:01:42
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malkiins 4th now after stamkos
Go OILERS Go!!! |
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Yewcandoit
Rookie
Canada
115 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 13:05:17
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Malkin would definitely be one of the top 5 if he had better linemates.
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doublechamp7
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
278 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 13:12:06
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| Malkins no my pool team and was my second overall pick and has been a disappointment so far. but its okay because some other second rounders were gange and Iginla. IT seems he is missing alot of shifts with little bruises and stuff |
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polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro
525 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 13:57:12
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Remember to, he and the pens had to play more games than any other team besides detroit, making it to the finals 2 years in a row. That type of physical effort takes its toll.
Add to it that he had some injuries, though not too extensive, and you see that he's not top pick in a hockey pool this year. In fact, if anyone thought he was a top 5 pick for a hockey pool before the year began, I would think you were a little off in your judgment, especially given the line issues that nuxfan pointed out above.
But, if you say he's not arguably one of the top5 in the league, you are nuts.
I'm not saying he is or is not one of the top5, but he should always be in the conversation if you are talking about the top 5.
Start nagging on Kovalchuk if you are going to nag on any superstar. |
Edited by - polishexpress on 11/11/2010 14:00:05 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 14:16:28
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Goal scoring I could comfortable put Stamkos ahead of Malkin today. However, I put Malkin head and shoulders above Stamkos is the playmaker catagory. So many times I have watched a Pitt game when Malkin had three guys on him and he finds a way to get the puck into a productive area of the ice.
As Nux also said, He is a very productive player. Well over a PPG. 4 NHL season, 2 with more than 100 points, never less than PPG, 2 time Hart Runner up, Art Ross winner, and 2 time NHL 1st team All Star and let's also throw in a Calder and a Conn Smythe too.
Stamkos, as good as he is, is still pretty one dimensional from what I have watched. Pure sniper. Not a PPG player through his short career, not over 100 points yet either.
Stamkos still has a little something to prove over Malkin. My top 3 are still Crosby, Ovechkin, and Malkin in that order with the likes of Datsuyk, Getzlaf, and Sedin still ahead of Stamkos in my books.
Hockey is more than just scoring goals. |
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Oilearl
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
268 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 14:26:51
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| I saw Stamkos in Victoria for the training camp and was very impressed by his skating and scoring touch for such a young player.... he still is young and in my opion should be considered top 5 now not to mention challenging the top 2 in the near future. |
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Awesome One
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
505 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 14:44:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Stamkos still has a little something to prove over Malkin. My top 3 are still Crosby, Ovechkin, and Malkin in that order with the likes of Datsuyk, Getzlaf, and Sedin still ahead of Stamkos in my books.
Hockey is more than just scoring goals.
Really Beans, Getzlaf over Stamkos?
I guess Getzlaf is a better all-around player, but he is never considered by any hockey experts to be a top 10 player.
Here is my top 10:
1.Crosby
2.Ovechkin
3.Stamkos
4.Luongo
5.Malkin
6.Thornton
7.Datsyuk
8.Toews
9.Getzlaf
10.Green
There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs". |
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HawkinOilCountry
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
318 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 14:58:10
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I really am not a fan of any top ten player list that mixes forwards, goalies, and defensemen. That's like comparing Apples to Oranges to Pickup Trucks.
I am pretty sure you could get a lot of experts to put Getzlaf as a top 10 forward, the debate starts when you look at "where" in that top 10. Prior to the start of the season TSN projected him at 86 pts for the season, which is good enough to tie him for 9th overall for forwards (with Joe Thornton and Marty St Louis). I think they (the TSN panel) like to call themselves experts sometimes.
As to Malkin, maybe it's just better to say that, it's not that his stock has fallen, but that a few other people have had their stock rise dramatically (like Stamkos and the Sedins) after last season.
The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal. |
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Awesome One
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
505 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 15:11:36
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinOilCountry
As to Malkin, maybe it's just better to say that, it's not that his stock has fallen, but that a few other people have had their stock rise dramatically (like Stamkos and the Sedins) after last season.
The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal.
I just do not think that the Sedins will stay at this level any longer
It does not seem right that Henrik won the Art Ross.
There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs". |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 16:05:33
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quote:
I just do not think that the Sedins will stay at this level any longer
what level do you mean?
Art Ross winning, Hart winning, 100+ points per season level? Its hard to say, certainly difficult to do that year after year, for any player. Last year might have been the pinnacle for Hank in terms of personal achievement and accolades. I certainly would not bet that he would win the Art Ross and Hart again this year, but it certainly could happen.
However, they have been producing at PPG average over the last 5 years now. Every year people say "they can't keep it up", "someone will catch on and defend them", "you just have to break the cycle and they're useless". And yet they keep on doing it.... They're in the prime of their careers now @ 31 years old, I don't really see them slowing down for the next few years at least. |
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Awesome One
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
505 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 16:26:27
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
I just do not think that the Sedins will stay at this level any longer
what level do you mean?
Art Ross winning, Hart winning, 100+ points per season level? Its hard to say, certainly difficult to do that year after year, for any player. Last year might have been the pinnacle for Hank in terms of personal achievement and accolades. I certainly would not bet that he would win the Art Ross and Hart again this year, but it certainly could happen.
However, they have been producing at PPG average over the last 5 years now. Every year people say "they can't keep it up", "someone will catch on and defend them", "you just have to break the cycle and they're useless". And yet they keep on doing it.... They're in the prime of their careers now @ 31 years old, I don't really see them slowing down for the next few years at least.
Art Ross winning, Hart winning, 100+ points level.
There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs". |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 21:17:49
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Shocking opinion to be honest. Ryan Getzlaf does everything a coach wants. He is huge, moves incredibly well, is one of the most offensively creative players in the entire league, puts up a PPG balanced in both scoring and playmaking, and he has a Cup ring.
He is actually on most 'hockey experts' top 10 players in the NHL. There has been some discussions in the past that he is not happy in Anaheim and since the Olympics in Vancouver he has shown interest in going to a more hockey driven market(specifically a team in Canada).
Interesting, Ryan Rishaug was on a recent local radio show as a call in guest and he said most GM's would jump at this kid and give up most anything for him. The question raised was a Getzlaf vs Thornton question and Rishaug basically said it would be no contest. Getzlaf is younger, as big and strong, as offensively skilled(not as good playmaker but better scorer) and most importantly has won at every level.
Who was #6 on the Awesome list again??? Not every hockey expert would agree. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2010 : 05:56:15
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No, Malkin is no flash in the pan. He is still top three for me as well.
I have watched a lot of Pittsburgh games, and looked at the linemates that Crosby and Malkin have had to play with . . . they are pretty garbage, really. They are an extremely imbalanced team, and it is starting to show that it is no longer a winning formula for them . . .
If I were the Pittsburgh GM, I would be ever so quietly shopping Malkin to see what I could get in return for him. In my opinion, he is still capable of finishing top three in points any given year, and if h finds chemistry with a sniper of quality, look out.
As an aside, Getzlaf is most certainly top ten for me as well. At this point in time, as a Leafs fan, my dream center would be Getzlaf (after Crosby I suppose). He is big and creates a lot of space, defensively as sound as you could hope for, and very gifted offensively. He is more than just the 80+ points, he creates a lot more space for the other players as well, and makes everyone better.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Awesome One
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
505 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2010 : 06:25:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Who was #6 on the Awesome list again??? Not every hockey expert would agree.
I never said that I was an expert!
There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs". |
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Awesome One
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
505 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2010 : 06:29:27
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Beans, you say that Getzlaf might want to move from Anaheim to specifically a Canadian team (I can see him getting booed when football season starts).
Slozo, you say that if you were the GM in Pittsburgh you would be shopping Malkin.
How about Malkin for Getzlaf straight up?
There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs". |
Edited by - Awesome One on 11/12/2010 06:30:30 |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2010 : 07:20:05
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Malkin for Getzlaf straight up I can see, from the standpoint of a GM of a hockey team. More point potential from Malkin, but Getzlaf's overall game is better (defence, leadership, hitting). Would really depend on the team I have already which one I would want more.
As a Toronto fan/fantasy GM, I'd take Getzlaf first, because I already have an elite sniper, and I need more grit and size up front (I know Malkin isn't small, but you get my drift).
If I was the GM of a team like Buffalo or the Rangers, I'd take Malkin.
If I am drafting a player on straight points, I take Malkin.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Awesome One
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
505 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2010 : 08:12:28
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Okay Slozo, if you were the GM in Tampa, would you trade Stamkos for one of them?
There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs". |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2010 : 09:16:16
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quote:
How about Malkin for Getzlaf straight up?
I'm not really sure who this benefits. What is the purpose of this deal?
quote:
Okay Slozo, if you were the GM in Tampa, would you trade Stamkos for one of them?
I'm not slozo, but again, what is the purpose of that deal?
If PIT trades Malkin, it will be to free up salary room so they can actually build a quality team around Crosby - not take on another 6+M player. |
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Guest8416
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Posted - 11/12/2010 : 09:16:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Awesome One
I also think Stamkos should be considered as a better player than Malkin, but I don't think Toews should be in these discussions quite yet.
Give him 2 or 3 more years.
There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs".
As you know, St.Louis is a player built to set up a goal scorer, and as you know tampa bay is doing way above expectations. This combination had gace the goal scorer stamkos a huge lead infont of all players. This year, the penguins are not doing well, and malkin is in the middle of it with 2 new no name's to play with. This is what we call a slump. If at the end of the year stamkos has doubles Malkin's points, then stamkos should be number 3. Lets not forget malkins 113 points and 36 in the play offs. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2010 : 09:22:09
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It not always easy to say would you trade one player for another. For example, I would not trade Malkin for Getzlaf if I am the GM of Pitt because it does not help my team. If I am trading Malkin, it is for at least 2 very top quality forwards to support Crosby and Staal when healthy. Getzlaf does not do that. Same as trading Stamkos for Malkin. I do that trade if I am the Pitt GM but not if I am Yzerman as that does not help my team. TB needs defense and goaltending.
So just because a player would not be traded for another player does not mean they are not as good as the other player.
Bottom line, if we are discussion Malkin, Stamkos, and Getzlaf we are really splitting hairs. We are talking about 3 guys in most top 10's in the NHL. They are all franchise players. |
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Awesome One
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
505 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2010 : 10:28:44
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You might be able to say that Crosby and Ovechkin are in the same area and Stamkos, Malkin, and Getzlaf are in the tier just below.
There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs". |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2010 : 16:36:33
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GP: 78 PTS: 85
GP: 82 PTS: 106
GP: 82 PTS: 113
GP: 67 PTS: 77
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GP: 15 PTS: 12
What more is there to say? 4 NHL seasons, all at over a point per game. 15 Games in to season number 5, and he's only 3 points behind a point-per-game. All while playing with below average wingers, and only Sid on the PP.
His big, strong on the puck, moves well when he has the puck (strong stick work to enter the zone), protects the puck well, can score a bit, and finds the open man when he has no business even trying!
The guy is no flash in the pan. He's a talented, big playmaker who can handle himself well out there. Give him a real winger or two, and the guy produces well above a point-per-game. Oh wait, he already does without the wingers.
Can't ask for more.
Irvine/prez. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2010 : 17:23:14
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If I was the GM of Tampa Bay, why the hell would I trade Stamkos?!?
Ridiculous question.
There is no point answering questions to postulations that will never become reality.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2010 : 19:55:28
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3 goals 1 assist tonight for Malkin, this thread is ridiculus, if having 77 points in 67 games is having stuggles, then I hope everyone on the Canucks starts struggling, He now has 16 points in 17 game, does that put him closer to the big 3 again?
Malkin is a superstar, simple as that. He will continue to be great for years to come. Now if they traded him to the Ducks for Getzlaf the GM would need to be fired! why bring in another superstar center? if anything, Malkin for Perry makes more sense because at least your bringing in a good winger to play with Crosby.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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Guest8835
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Posted - 11/18/2010 : 03:54:51
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| I would take Malkin over Stamkos anytime just based on their linemates. Malkin plays with donkeys and monkeys. Stamkos plays with a guy named St-Louis. Which brings me to the point that St-Louis doesnt get enough credit. The guy is a great 2 ways player. Lecavalier plays with him and has his best seasons. Lecavalier doesnt play with him and his numbers go down. Also, I believe St-Louis won the Art Ross once. I still wonder why St-Louis wasnt on Canada's team last year....and sure hope that it's not because he's 5'6'' and doesnt check. |
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Evgeni Malkin- flash in the pan? 
