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4809 Posts |
 Posted - 01/27/2011 : 11:31:46
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Yet again, another thread where non-Leaf fans want to hi-jack the topic by endlessly discussing some Leafs history.
This is the TRADE DEADLINE PREDICTIONS FOR 2011 folks.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest2712
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Posted - 01/27/2011 : 11:49:46
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Sundin was under Fletch and not BB.
as for whether Kabby is traded or walks at season end, i couldn't care less. as much as he's a great puck moving d-man, he is horrible in his own end and can't/won't throw a check to save his life. oh and the fact that he won't shoot the puck.
the rest of the trade deadline.....someone earlier mentioned Gonchar being on the block? all i can say is wow. Murray made big headlines this summer by signing one of the bigger jewls in the UFA pool, and now 8 months later he's using him as trade bait? but i guess if he can turn him into some good prospects then it'd be worth it.
what about LA making some moves? they've got a good stock pile of prospects and loads of cap space. are they potential buyers? just throwing this out there but would they dare make an offer for Kovalchuk? hell they were willing to throw the money and terms at him over the summer. so if the asking price is right......why not? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2011 : 11:52:10
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Detroit's interest in Kaberle makes sense, not only in the Rafalski replacement (if they are replacing him) but also on Lidstrom who is not signed through this year. And I also completely agree with Slozo in that the players discussed would be of interested for Burke to make a deal. However, I just don't see those players on the table. Even if Kaberle can be signed long term, it's still too much. Kaberle is at best the #2 in Detroit or maybe #3. That's not work Helm or Tatar. Maybe that Abdelkator dude, but that's it.
Now, looking at the Tkachuk deal, that was a horrible deal if it were true. The part that Duke failed to mention is that later in June, Tkachuk was reaquired by the Blues for a 4th round pick in 07 and a 1st round pick in 08. So, the 1st round picks wash meaning it was Tkachuk and a 4th rounder for a Metropolit, a 2nd rounder, and a 3rd rounder.
How does that look??? |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2011 : 04:36:47
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| Just read a little bit in some hockey trade rumours. Edmonton may be shopping Gagner. Just think if the Leafs pick him up Beans could no longer say the Leafs have no good players for the future. But Alas a rumour is just a rumour. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2011 : 04:45:32
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Herd through a reliable source the habs will send Yannick Weaber to the Devils for David Clarkson, we shall see...
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2011 : 06:49:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Porkchop73
Just read a little bit in some hockey trade rumours. Edmonton may be shopping Gagner. Just think if the Leafs pick him up Beans could no longer say the Leafs have no good players for the future. But Alas a rumour is just a rumour.
Gagner has piles of potential but has been a bit of a disappointment in some circles. Much like Luke Schenn, he was moving into an NHL role before he was ready and it slowed his progress.
Gagner has 60+ point/season potential, speed to burn, hands of gold. If the Leafs could get their hands on him, he would substitute as a 1st line centre for a very short period of time. However, Kessel and Gagner together might make for a nice combo.
And yes, I could then say the Leafs have 2 solid young players. Not just Kessel
But who are/would the Leafs be willing to give up and/or would the Oilers be interested in?? It would have to be a legitimate defender. What's that Gunarsson kid like?? |
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2011 : 07:00:49
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Beans - I have a feeling that Burke doesn't give up Gunnarson . . . not that he is that special in particular, but for a young defender, he is decent, and I think with Kabby going in the near future and Beauchemin sure to follow in a year or two, stockpiling young d-men has been of primary concern to Burke.
So no, I don't think Gunnarsson is going anywhere unless it's a deal that he can't say no to.
I also cannot see Edmonton trading Gagner already . . . first he should become a more established star, THEN want out / get shipped out of Edmonton! 
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2011 : 07:14:10
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Beans - I have a feeling that Burke doesn't give up Gunnarson . . . not that he is that special in particular, but for a young defender, he is decent, and I think with Kabby going in the near future and Beauchemin sure to follow in a year or two, stockpiling young d-men has been of primary concern to Burke.
So no, I don't think Gunnarsson is going anywhere unless it's a deal that he can't say no to.
I also cannot see Edmonton trading Gagner already . . . first he should become a more established star, THEN want out / get shipped out of Edmonton!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Oh Slozo, is that all you got?? There hasn't been a 'superstar' leave Edmonton in almost 5 years and almost 10 before that. It's not like Sundin just a few years ago now is it??
Frankly, the Oilers have a log jam of smallish players that are harder to move. Gagner, Cogliano, Eberle, Brule. They are all pretty similar size and type of players. Clearly, Eberle has the age and potential that makes him a keeper. Cogliano has played his way into a solid 3rd line/PK spot. Brule has been hurt, and Gagner is the guy that was supposed to start breaking out. He simply hasn't and has not meshed with any line he was been put on this year.
His value will be low, but the Oilers will not move him for nothing. Gunnarsson might be much. What about Phaneuf?? I mean, under 20 points this season, he would fit really nice as the #4 or #5 defensemen in the Oilers depth chart. |
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Guest6615
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Posted - 01/28/2011 : 07:56:22
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I predict TSN will have an insufferable amount of over-coverage and 'analysis' for trade deadline day, which will be highlighted by a few rent-a players moving for 3rd round draft picks, and other minor moves that really won't change the complexion of the league very much at all.
E.G. trade deadline panel talks endlessly for the first two hours analyzing a deal like Maxim Lapierre moving to Anaheim for a prospect. ZZZZZZZZzzz no one cares. "Well this will really add some depth to that Ducks third Line!!" "Why do you think they traded him?" "Dunno, lets speculate for another hour because nothing else is happening".
Also, this thread isn't about Leafs and Oilers exclusively. If anything, they will be minor players at the deadline because every GM knows they are sellers and will lowball the sin out of them. They are both like the ugly friend in a group of girls at a bar. They realize to get any action they have to pretty much take anything that moves. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2011 : 08:13:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest6615
Also, this thread isn't about Leafs and Oilers exclusively. If anything, they will be minor players at the deadline because every GM knows they are sellers and will lowball the sin out of them. They are both like the ugly friend in a group of girls at a bar. They realize to get any action they have to pretty much take anything that moves.
Great, then why don't you take some time to propose a trade that you think might happen or one that you think would be fair and benefit both teams rather than giving us your analysis of what you think will be boring commentary by TSN on the trades that do happen?  |
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
360 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2011 : 08:35:27
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Any wingers expected to be available that Pittsburgh maybe able to give a team a Dman for? Maybe Engleand, Lovejoy, or even Pascal Despres?
I've heard rumors about Tim connoly being on the move if the sabres are still outside of the playoff picture when the trade dead line approaches. Any validity in this?
Lemieux owns Gretzky |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2011 : 08:48:44
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From everything i've heard/read, Connolly would def be available. Ton of skill, but Salo-like as far as injuries go. I'm sure the asking price couldn't be that much considering he's a UFA at season's end? Don't know much , errr anything really, about the guys you've mentioned in exchange so not sure if one of those would get this done? |
Edited by - Alex116 on 01/28/2011 08:49:10 |
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2011 : 08:50:35
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Been hearing that Connoly was being shopped for a while now, but it appears that no one wants to pay fair value.
Beans - I'll give up Phaneuf for Gagner, sure. My goodness, could you imagine the horror in Calgary if that ever happened?!? Nevermind the Oilers dressing room . . . well, obviously it's fantasy, but hey - that is what we are reduced to here.
< crickets chirping >
Ok then, I'll address this inane comment:
quote:
"Also, this thread isn't about Leafs and Oilers exclusively. If anything, they will be minor players at the deadline because every GM knows they are sellers and will lowball the sin out of them. They are both like the ugly friend in a group of girls at a bar. They realize to get any action they have to pretty much take anything that moves."
So, in your esteemed opinion, two organisations chock full of young players and prospects who are out of the playoffs already are not going to be involved in any dealing before the trade deadline?
Do some research before you post, next time, 'kay? Because usually, those are the teams that have the MOST movement before the trade deadline . . . it isn't a guarantee, but usually, this is the case.
The Isles, Sens, Devils perhaps, and even LA could all be part of that list.
The juiciest deals I think could be made with the Isles . . . they do have a fair bit of talent, and I think there are good buys to be made - especially with a team that has a starting goalie of mediocre value to give.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest6615
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Posted - 01/28/2011 : 13:20:45
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"So, in your esteemed opinion, two organisations chock full of young players and prospects who are out of the playoffs already are not going to be involved in any dealing before the trade deadline?"
Ok "Bro". First off, nice way to welcome a new poster to your boards, by assuming I know nothing and have a valueless opinion. Unless you are somehow scared of anyone but the same 15 nerds posting over and over again on whatever the day's headlines happen to be, I'd recommend changing this attitude.
Second, I said this isn't about Edmonton/Toronto EXCLUSIVELY. At this point these teams are desperate, but like I said, ugly girl in bar analogy holds that there wont be any blockbusters. Bigger deals could be from teams like LA, but I think everyone is fairly gunshy about the big rental-player deals, since historically almost none have paid off.
In fact, let's research last years 'big trades' on deadline day.
Highlights include:
Martin Skoula for a 5th round pick
Wolski for Mueller/Porter
Halpern for Teddy Purcell + Pick
Raffi Torres for Nathan Paetch + pick
Why not look at 2009? That must have been better...
Highlights:
Kotalik for pick
Erik Cole for Patrick O sullivan
Derek Morris for a bunch of picks
Antropov for a bag of pucks
Olli Jokinen for Lombardi + Prust + pick
Hardly jaw-dropping changes. The day itself is overhyped, and quite frankly, becoming outdated. GM's are becoming too smart and informed to make the trigger-happy short sighted deals that have sank franchises in the past.
If there are big deals to be made, they are made over the course of months, not hours, and take place before the deadline (Kovalchuk, Phaneuf). Deadline day has become a place to swap picks/prospects and guys who are troublesome/haven't worked out in an organization.
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2011 : 13:28:44
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| Hey Guest, if you don't like the posts of us nerds then you can leave when ever you want. Slozo's point was bring something to the table or don't bother saying anything at all. |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2011 : 15:25:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by Porkchop73
Just read a little bit in some hockey trade rumours. Edmonton may be shopping Gagner. Just think if the Leafs pick him up Beans could no longer say the Leafs have no good players for the future. But Alas a rumour is just a rumour.
Gagner has piles of potential but has been a bit of a disappointment in some circles. Much like Luke Schenn, he was moving into an NHL role before he was ready and it slowed his progress.
Gagner has 60+ point/season potential, speed to burn, hands of gold. If the Leafs could get their hands on him, he would substitute as a 1st line centre for a very short period of time. However, Kessel and Gagner together might make for a nice combo.
And yes, I could then say the Leafs have 2 solid young players. Not just Kessel
But who are/would the Leafs be willing to give up and/or would the Oilers be interested in?? It would have to be a legitimate defender. What's that Gunarsson kid like??
The rumour I was reading (and sorry I will not post a link because PUH is the best and would not do that to them) said that the Oilers were shopping Gagner because they are going to target Nugent-Hopkins (a gifted centre with Red Deer I think) and with a pick of 3rd or better there is good chance they will get him. The Oil have glut of youngster at the centre position and they feel they would get the most out of trading Gagner.
Who would the Leafs give up? Good question, the Oil would do good in finding backend help and the Leafs have a stockpile of Dmen so I am sure there is room to move there. Some veteran leadership would go a long way in Edmonton while the develop there young kids.
For the people here who are little serious I am only being hypothetical that the Leafs would be involved. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2011 : 22:33:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest6615
Ok "Bro". First off, nice way to welcome a new poster to your boards, by assuming I know nothing and have a valueless opinion. Unless you are somehow scared of anyone but the same 15 nerds posting over and over again on whatever the day's headlines happen to be, I'd recommend changing this attitude.
BRO! Maybe try signing up on the site so that you can be "recognized". I don't know about the other "nerds", but i don't take the time to remember / recognize guest #'s! Names are a lot easier!
Signed, one of the "same 15 nerds postingover and over again on whatever the day's headlines happen to be" |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2011 : 07:32:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest6615
"So, in your esteemed opinion, two organisations chock full of young players and prospects who are out of the playoffs already are not going to be involved in any dealing before the trade deadline?"
Ok "Bro". First off, nice way to welcome a new poster to your boards, by assuming I know nothing and have a valueless opinion. Unless you are somehow scared of anyone but the same 15 nerds posting over and over again on whatever the day's headlines happen to be, I'd recommend changing this attitude.
Second, I said this isn't about Edmonton/Toronto EXCLUSIVELY. At this point these teams are desperate, but like I said, ugly girl in bar analogy holds that there wont be any blockbusters. Bigger deals could be from teams like LA, but I think everyone is fairly gunshy about the big rental-player deals, since historically almost none have paid off.
In fact, let's research last years 'big trades' on deadline day.
Highlights include:
Martin Skoula for a 5th round pick
Wolski for Mueller/Porter
Halpern for Teddy Purcell + Pick
Raffi Torres for Nathan Paetch + pick
Why not look at 2009? That must have been better...
Highlights:
Kotalik for pick
Erik Cole for Patrick O sullivan
Derek Morris for a bunch of picks
Antropov for a bag of pucks
Olli Jokinen for Lombardi + Prust + pick
Hardly jaw-dropping changes. The day itself is overhyped, and quite frankly, becoming outdated. GM's are becoming too smart and informed to make the trigger-happy short sighted deals that have sank franchises in the past.
If there are big deals to be made, they are made over the course of months, not hours, and take place before the deadline (Kovalchuk, Phaneuf). Deadline day has become a place to swap picks/prospects and guys who are troublesome/haven't worked out in an organization.
How would I know you are a new poster? No one besides Rainman could possibly keep track of who is a new guest and who isn't.
I welcome new blood, actually - see back when any solid first posts come out with thoughtful commentary (The RC was the last one I recall). We at PUH always welcome new posters who have something of value to share.
You are always welcome to sign-up and get that official recognition as a "new poster" if that is what you want, bro.
And if you COULD remember a year back, you'd also know that it was a pre-deadline deal year . . . meaning, many of the bigger trades took place in the weeks before the actual day, making it a bit anti-climatic.
In the month before trade deadline day, the Leafs were one of the busiest teams, trading away first Toskala and Blake (deal of the century, lol) Jan 31, and that same day getting rid of Stajan, Hagman, Mayers and White in a blockbuster. Leafs would later deal Ponikarovsky on March 2, and dealt Stempniak and some more minor deals the day after (deadline day).
That is a LOT of movement.
The Jokinen deal was on Feb 2nd, the huge Kovalchuk deal on Feb 4th. The Oil dealt Grebeshkov on March 1st, and did one minor deal before getting rid of Visnovsky for Whitney, Johnson for Staios.
So yes, I count it as a lot of trades from the bottom two teams last year . . . it was all in a slow build-up to the trade deadline, that's all.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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ToeDrag
Top Prospect
9 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2011 : 12:44:58
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Read that LA was interested in Spezza... would be interesting!!
"I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out" |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2011 : 15:46:06
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quote:
Read that LA was interested in Spezza... would be interesting!!
That would be interesting, I cannot figure out why? They already have a great centre making 7M a year, and although they could use another centre, they don't need someone of Spezza's calibre.
They have 18M in cap space next year to sign 8 players - 2 of which are Doughty and Simmonds. I don't know why they'd hamper themselves this way. |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2011 : 18:58:26
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Beans , what are you talking about...what duke forget to mention on the Tkachuk trade.....1st picks were a wash ??
Atlanta received a conditional 4th round puck for the inclusive rights to talk to Tkachuk before the 2007 season ended.....St. Louis DID NOT give away their 1st round pick...
in 2007 St.louis picked 13th ( their pick ) Lars Eller.....then picked 18th ( thrashers pick ) Ian Cole
in 2008 St.louis picked 4th ( their pick ) Alex Pietrangelo.......
in 2009 St.louis picked ( 17th ) their pick
in 2010 St.louis picked 14 th and 16 th
The Blues did not give a 1st round pick to the thrashers
in 2007 the Thrashers did not have a 1st round pick......went to St.Louis....
in 2008 Atlanta picked 3rd overall ( their own pick )...they finished 3rd last in the league.
in 2009 Atlanta picked 4th overall ( their own pick )...they finished 4th last in the league..
in 2010 Atlanta picked 8th overall ( their own pick ) ...they finished 8 th last in the league..
Wher did this so called washed pick go ?? Mystery 1st round pick you claim the Thrashers got back from St. louis ??...it doesn`t exist. |
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2011 : 10:07:43
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
Read that LA was interested in Spezza... would be interesting!!
That would be interesting, I cannot figure out why? They already have a great centre making 7M a year, and although they could use another centre, they don't need someone of Spezza's calibre.
They have 18M in cap space next year to sign 8 players - 2 of which are Doughty and Simmonds. I don't know why they'd hamper themselves this way.
Mike Fisher would probably be a better fit, would give the Kings a nice 1-2-3 punch down the middle with Kopitar, Fisher & Stoll. Fisher has a much friendlier cap hit as well, 2 more years at $4.2 million. And in terms of actual dollars, Fisher is owed $4 million next season, and $3 million the following. |
Edited by - ryan93 on 01/30/2011 10:09:26 |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2011 : 11:03:40
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quote:
Mike Fisher would probably be a better fit
That makes a lot more sense, and would not surprise me. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2011 : 11:30:10
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Duke, you are right. I misunderstood what I was reading and got it backwards.
In that case, I completely agree that the Tkachuk deal was heavily one sided. That does not mean there is a GM out there willing to do that kind of deal again for Kaberle. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2011 : 12:28:07
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| at the time that Tkachuk deal was made, I recall that there was *heavy* pressure for ATL to make the postseason for the first time, which they did - probably saved the job of the GM. |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2011 : 12:36:25
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I agree that kaberle is not worth that much Beans...no UFA is, but i think he is worth a lot more than what people are saying he is.
I would not trade kaberle unless i got...
A...2nd round pick and a very good prospect ( forward or defense )
B...a late 1st round pick....not getting a top 1st round pick
C.....this is what i would really go for...
a 2nd line forward with good size, ( to go to the net ) who is not older than lets say kaberles age...
If kaberle is a 1st line defense pairing.....why is it some people say he is not worth a 2nd line offensive forward ?? don`t make sense. |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2011 : 12:40:45
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| p.s...kaberle should fetch a player ( just to compare ) like the calibre of a Brooks Laich.. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2011 : 13:26:44
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quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
[If kaberle is a 1st line defense pairing.....why is it some people say he is not worth a 2nd line offensive forward ?? don`t make sense.
The reason being is his UFA status at season's end. If a team is going to trade for him, he may only be there for their playoff run if they can't resign him and/or he wants to test the market? THAT, is why your next comment: quote:
p.s...kaberle should fetch a player ( just to compare ) like the calibre of a Brooks Laich..
makes sense! Brooks Laich is also UFA at season's end. I think Washington would jump at that trade, however, it doesn't help the Leafs unless BB knows FOR SURE that Laich will resign there!
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2011 : 13:56:43
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As I said, just because Waddell made a stupid deal for Tkachuk doesn't mean someone will make a stupid deal for Kaberle. Also, one has to look at recent past (like the past 6-12 months) to discuss what a value of a players is.
Let's take a look at a few recent deals:
Jamie Langenbrunner was traded for a 3rd round pick which will become a 2nd round pick if he resigns with the Stars. Langenbrunner is also a UFA and is only 3 years older than Kaberle.
James Wisniewski was traded for a 2nd round pick and a conditional 5th round pick. Wisniewski is also a UFA at the end of the year, is 6 yrs younger, and is on pace for a 55 pt season. Definitely comparable to Kaberle and quite a bit younger. Speaking of Wisniewski, he was moved last summer to the Islanders for a 3rd round pick.
Dwayne Roloson, a far older player, was moved for Ty Wishart who was a 16th overall pick in 2006 and has played just 6 NHL games. None the less, a prospect that has not proven to be an NHLer for an obvious rental player.
Out of the 52 trades at or near the deadline last year, only 1-1st round pick was involved(the Kovalchuk deal) and 9 2nd-round picks. 5 of the 9 trades involving a 2nd round pick was a deal for only a 2nd round pick, no package involved.
Last year's biggest 'deal' in regards to a rental defensemen was Joe Corvo. That trade was one of the 4 deals involving a 2nd round pick that was a package. They deal also included Brian Pothier and Oskar Osala.
Really, look at the recent past. The best that Kaberle will fetch is a similar deal to the Corvo deal last year. More likely, based on the value being put on rental players this season, Kaberle would fetch a draft pick or 2, but they won't be a 1st round pick.
Duke, UFA rental players are not EVER worth their actual value. Never. UFA's traded at the deadline normally fetch 1/2 to 1/3 of what they would if they were long-term signed players traded outside of the trade deadline.
This argument is about fair value because it simply won't happen. And you wouldn't trade Kaberle without getting this or that?? How about watching him leaving the Leafs dressing room for absolutely nothing in July. How is that going to help the Leafs??
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2011 : 15:44:27
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| People often forget that even if a team waits until July with a UFA they are not exactly getting nothing in return for their departing player, they get cap space. For some UFA's this is a significant dollar amount. And that freed up cap space is pretty big in the NHL cap world today. Some teams might look for assets, some might count that created cap room as their asset. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2011 : 16:21:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Porkchop73
People often forget that even if a team waits until July with a UFA they are not exactly getting nothing in return for their departing player, they get cap space. For some UFA's this is a significant dollar amount. And that freed up cap space is pretty big in the NHL cap world today. Some teams might look for assets, some might count that created cap room as their asset.
PC, that's a glass half full sort of response, but i get what you mean. Kaberle's departure will remove 4+ million off the books for the Leafs. Can they replace him with someone comparable for a similar price (albeit prob more as he'd be looking for a raise i'm guessing?)? Sure, if they can find a guy willing to play there that's a good chunk of money.
Thing is, i'm sure most Leafs fans would have preferred Burke to trade him last year or even the year before when he'd get an asset in return, and in the case of a pick, the pick AND the cap space!
Beans, i agree with what you're saying. The only way Kaberle fetches anything remotely close to his real worth would be if there are multiple teams desperate for his services. I don't know the details of who else will be available so i'm not sure if his value will be higher than most are predicting? |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2011 : 20:14:17
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Guys, myself i`m not a big kaberle fan. I`d much rather a player who brings more toughness in his own end, then again kaberle has always played on lousy leaf teams.
One thing about him...i don`t think there is a better defenseman in the league at springing his forward players into the opposing zone. Can you imagine how dangerous Washington would be with kaberle sending Ovie and Semin in all alone....or Datsyuk and zetterburg.
I think if traded he will bring back a good return even as a UFA.
All i`m afraid of ( as a leaf fan ) at the trade deadline is that burke will be a buyer instead of a seller. Another lousy leaf finish will get Boston a high pick again and make Burke look like an idiot all - together. I hope he doesn`t bring in over-paid, band - aid solution players just to finish 20th over-all and save face for Burke. Toronto needs more rebuilding with youth.....but this will cause the leafs to bottom out in the 2nd half. Regardless where Boston picks, whats done is done, the leafs have to look at their long term future. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2011 : 20:52:12
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quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
Guys, myself i`m not a big kaberle fan. I`d much rather a player who brings more toughness in his own end, then again kaberle has always played on lousy leaf teams.
Duke, you may prefer the dman who "brings more toughness" but that's supposed to be Phaneuf and Komisarek's job(s). Every team needs a mix of both. Take the Canucks for example. Bieksa, Ballard and Hamhuis are the more physical/defensive guys and yet we have Ehrhoff. He rarely throws the body around, but that's not his job!
quote:
I think if traded he will bring back a good return even as a UFA.
Before i can comment, i'd have to know what you consider "good". He's certainly not gonna bring back as good a return as he would have if he were traded a year and a half ago. |
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deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2011 : 06:11:17
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On Kaberle - I agree with Beans in that Joe Corvo being dealt at the deadline last year is the closest thing we have to compare to, when trying to determine trade value.
Corvo has topped out at 40 points a few years ago, and has become a solid defensive guy, maybe a 2nd or 3rd pairing defenceman. He will bring you some physicality, and chip in a few points - that's about it.
Kaberle, on the other hand, is an elite, skilled offensive d-man, someone who would be on the top pp unit, and probably the top pairing with a bigger body (unless another eliter offensive d-man is already there). He is getting older, but still has it, in my opinion.
So one would HAVE TO surmise that Kaberle's worth is well above that of Corvo's. No?
Knowing how protective everyone is with first round picks now, I say it'd be a second rounder with a good prospect at the very least.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2011 : 06:16:21
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Well, I guess time will tell and for now we will have to agree to disagree. I doubt Kaberle will fetch a 2nd rounder AND a prospect. I believe it will be one or the other, not both.
I guess we will see in 28 days. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2011 : 06:22:59
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Wow, you must be up very early Beans, or else you are out east here.
So Beans - you think Kaberle is worth LESS than Corvo? Explain why, please.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2011 : 09:39:53
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quote:
So one would HAVE TO surmise that Kaberle's worth is well above that of Corvo's. No?
I think Kaberle could possibly pull in as much as Corvo. But really, what did WSH give up to get Corvo?
- 2nd round pick (which looks like it was the 53rd overall pick last year)
- Brian Pothier
- Oscar Osala - 2006 4th round pick
A second round pick from a top-5 team is not much, and 4th round pick from 4 years ago that has never cracked the NHL... well. It seems that Corvo was mainly traded for Pothier and some hopefuls.
That ain't much. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2011 : 10:36:53
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But at the time, nuxfan, Pothier was a solid prospect, and Osala a marginal prospect. That, with a very low 2nd rounder, is the total trade worth.
One low 2nd rounder; a solid prospect; a marginal prospect.
Depending on where the 2nd round pick is, I think Kaberle gets more than that, in that the pick is higher, or at least one of the prospects are of high value.
You know what I was thinking of today . . . does anyone see much movement out west, where almost everyone is contending? I think there will be lots of trades in the east, and very few in the west.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2011 : 10:47:08
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Pothier is a "solid prospect"? At the time he was an 8 year NHL veteran, just coming off a long term concussion that resulted in vision problems for the better part of a year. He now plays in Europe. Osala has played one game in the NHL in 4 years, and has not been particularly good in the AHL yet.
I see a late second round pick, and 2 spare parts. I certainly hope that Kaberle gets better than that.
Re trades in the west - there will be some, but I don't think the list of buyers and sellers is clear yet. Currently, the only surefire seller is EDM, everyone still has at least an outside shot at the playoffs. Most interesting will be CGY, the next 3 weeks of play will decide their fate I think. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2011 : 11:13:55
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So looking around on the web, there does seem to be some meat around Shea Weber possibly being moved at the trade deadline - not necessarily to VAN, but in general.
Weber is in the last year of a contract that pays 4.5M, and has arbitration rights this year. Also, he can be UFA after one year, so if an arbitrator gives him a one year deal he could be lost after that deal as a UFA. Word is that budget conscious NSH does not have the means or will to lockup Weber at what his perceived market would be, and will look to move him at the deadline rather than lose him to an offer sheet or failed arbitration in the summer.
That would be a blockbuster for sure. According to the same rumour mill, Weber would like to play in Canada. |
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Trade Deadline 2011 - Predictions 
