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Guest4609
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 Posted - 01/31/2011 : 11:45:11
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| Tomas Kaberle won`t fetch much at the deadline unless a trade and sign is in the works. Washington could be a destination but certainly not for Semin as has been suggested. Burke should try and get a prospect and Russian defenceman Dmitri Orlov could be A possibility. Orlov is a blue chip prospect but at this time, there is no guarantee that he would come to North America anytime soon. .... leafs are also said to covet big Flyer winger / center James Van Riemsdyk who is wildly inconsistent but still has a huge potential upside. Kaberle would`t get that done but Kris Versteeg involved might evoke some discussion. Something like Kaberle, Versteeg and Giguere going to the Flyers for Van Riemsdyk and Scott Hartnell and if thatss not enough , leafs might need to throw in a prospect like Jerry D ` Amigo or Goalie prospect Jussi Rynnas..... and finally , its no secret Leafs need a center so what would it take to pry Joe Pavelski out of Shark waters. San Jose likes Beauchemin but ofcourse, he alone would not be enough. But IF Brian Burke were to throw in prospect Brad Ross into the deal well, who knows? |
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Guest4609
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Posted - 01/31/2011 : 11:49:57
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| Tomas Kaberle won`t fetch much at the deadline unless a trade and sign is in the works. Washington could be a destination but certainly not for Semin as has been suggested. Burke should try and get a prospect and Russian defenceman Dmitri Orlov could be A possibility. Orlov is a blue chip prospect but at this time, there is no guarantee that he would come to North America anytime soon. .... leafs are also said to covet big Flyer winger / center James Van Riemsdyk who is wildly inconsistent but still has a huge potential upside. Kaberle would`t get that done but Kris Versteeg involved might evoke some discussion. Something like Kaberle, Versteeg and Giguere going to the Flyers for Van Riemsdyk and Scott Hartnell and if thatss not enough , leafs might need to throw in a prospect like Jerry D ` Amigo or Goalie prospect Jussi Rynnas..... and finally , its no secret Leafs need a center so what would it take to pry Joe Pavelski out of Shark waters. San Jose likes Beauchemin but ofcourse, he alone would not be enough. But IF Brian Burke were to throw in prospect Brad Ross into the deal well, who knows? |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2011 : 12:11:43
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Well, i'd love to have him here, that's for sure, but at what expense? It might cost us some serious depth up front and prob even a dman as well? Nashville prob doesn't have a lot of interest in Schneider with Rinne there although he's only locked up for one more year and then would likely be looking for a nice raise? Jordan Schroeder? Cody Hodgson? With Hodgson's call up, it's gonna be real interesting to see if his stock goes up or down???
What a shame for the Preds if they can't get this guy signed. They'll never get his true worth with him being a UFA but there's sure to be some serious bidding for his services! This could be a total rental though as he's got the option this summer of where to sign! His situation is almost identical to Hamhuis' last year. They chose to keep him and continue negotiations into June. When that didn't work, his rights were traded to Philly (negotiation rights). They couldn't get him signed and his rights were traded to Pittsburgh. When they failed to sign him by the deadline, he turned and signed as a free agent here in Vancouver. Nashville chose to keep him for the playoffs rather than trade him at the deadline. They're up against the same situation one year later, with an even better player! |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2011 : 13:38:50
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Alex, the comments I read about Weber suggest that he wants to move as well - so its not just a case of NSH not being able to sign him (although I don't know if they would be able to anyway). Hard to say.
Apparently NSH is talking to his agent over the next 2 weeks to lockup a long term deal, and indication is if nothing happens, he'll be moved.
Its all rumours at this point, just what I've been reading on the web.
To get Weber, I think the canucks would have to cough up one of Bieksa/Erhoff/Ballard, one of Raymond/Samuelsson, and a prospect or first round pick next year (Hodgson seems likely). If we could get Weber for all of that, I'd be happy. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2011 : 20:44:15
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
Alex, the comments I read about Weber suggest that he wants to move as well - so its not just a case of NSH not being able to sign him (although I don't know if they would be able to anyway). Hard to say.
Apparently NSH is talking to his agent over the next 2 weeks to lockup a long term deal, and indication is if nothing happens, he'll be moved.
Its all rumours at this point, just what I've been reading on the web.
To get Weber, I think the canucks would have to cough up one of Bieksa/Erhoff/Ballard, one of Raymond/Samuelsson, and a prospect or first round pick next year (Hodgson seems likely). If we could get Weber for all of that, I'd be happy.
Well I'd say I'd be happy too!!! Weber is a corner stone of almost any team. I can't see any GM in the league not making a pitch for that guy. However, even though Nashville is a under spending team, I don't think even they are foolish enough to move a guy like Weber. He's not even in his prime yet and he's one of the best in the NHL.
Very wishful thinking.
I did see MacKenzie today talking that Beauchemin will be moved and Kaberle is a maybe but not likely to move. With all due respect to Kaberle's skills, Beauchemin would fetch more on the trade deadline market based on his contract extending through next year at a pretty reasonable value. Solid #3 defensemen for a team pushing for the Cup. |
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MyTeamRules
Top Prospect
72 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2011 : 21:10:00
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Players that should be put on the trading block are
1. Keith Yandle, he is on fire right now, there is only a slim chance that he will heat up teams some teams will try for this chance so trade him for a forward that can make 3 players on your team produce.
2. Paul Martin, Good Pitsburgh D-Man but overpaid and offensive. Trade him for a talented stay back D-Man.
3. Willie Mitchell, 1st line D-Man playing 3rd line, trade him for a player to play with Kopitar.
4. Jonathan Bernier, Great rookie goalie, Quick is only a bit older and now proven, trade him to a team like Toronto for a few mid level players.
5. Mason Raymond, his speed is great, something some teams need and the Canucks need more grit, trade him to a team like Boston.
”If you've only got one day to live, come see the Toronto Maple Leafs. It'll seem like forever. ” - Pat |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 04:33:10
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If Weber wants out and won't re-sign, it's certainly not wishful thinking on anyone's part that he will be moving. It's all about confirming what his real thoughts on it are, and obviously, no one would go public and decrease the trade value coming back to Nashville.
I'd want out of Nashville if I were Weber . . . who wouldn't? As an elite offensive defenceman, he could almost have his pick of great teams to choose from.
Surely he'd go to a contender . . . and if he really wants to go to Canada, that means one team - Vancouver. If the Canucks could pull off that deal, it'd be a stacked defence.
On Beauchemin - yeah, on a good team where he is playing far less minutes, he'll do great. Whenever his minutes max out (like they did last year), he is terrible - but whenever he is #3, he is a very steady, reliable d-man. Again, I blame Wilson for his ice-time mismanagement . . . which has only decreased his trade value. Someone will get him for very cheap.
Leafs would love to get Pavelski, I know that Burke had his eye on him before . . . but that's a tough one to pry away from a pretty solid team. Would take Beauchemin and . . . hmm, not sure who else Burke would be willing to throw in. But it would have to be another significant piece.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 07:45:01
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I don`t think Pavelski will be moving Slozo, too young and good. I`d say a GM would have a better shot at Thorthon ( who is 5 years older than J.Pav ) than Pavelski but probally neither.
With the emergence of Logan Coultier the Sharks are very deep down the middle.....Thorthon....Pavelski...L.Coult.....maybe not good timing for a team after either of these centermen. After this sessons playoffs, if the sharks tank again, Thorthon will probally be traded at the age of 33 while his value is still high.
Beans, you think F. Beauch will fetch more than T,Kab ? Even though F.Beauch is under contract, i`m not so certain of this.
Does anyone realize that Thomas Kaberle has been the 3rd highest point getting defenseman in the NHL since the lockout in 2005 ?? Behind only N. Lidstrom and D. Boyle....
Thats 5 and 1/2 years of constant scoring on all lousy hockey teams that have not even made the playoffs in this 5 and 1/2 year span.....thats amazing...still no-one gives him the respect he should be getting. ( I`m not a huge Kabby fan, but the facts are facts ).
For a defenseman, when your 3rd best in NHL scoring over this long period........whats the difference in comparing him to the next wave of NHL forwards after Crosby and Ovie..( with regards to NHL regular season points ) If we all agree these 2 are the NHL`s best...then out of the next level of forwards hasn`t some-one got to be number 3 ??....point wise ?? well this is Kaberle as a defenseman !!!!!! no-one can take this from him, proof is in the scoring stats.
Then a comment was made comparing him to Joe Corvo....what a joke. Where does J.Corvo stand in regular season points over the last 6 years ??
UFA or no UFA he is still the NHL`s 3rd best offensive defenseman playing the game, the numbers don`t lie, and playing 90 % of the time on a lousy AHL team. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 09:05:00
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Surely he'd go to a contender . . . and if he really wants to go to Canada, that means one team - Vancouver. If the Canucks could pull off that deal, it'd be a stacked defence.
Slozo, if in fact he wants out and to Canada, the timing couldn't be better for the Canucks. Not only are they a top contender, they're the only Canadian team at this point that is all but guaranteed to be in the playoffs AND he's a BC boy (grew up in Sicamous BC, around4.5-5 hours from Van). He also played junior for the Kelowna Rockets here in BC.
quote:
On Beauchemin - yeah, on a good team where he is playing far less minutes, he'll do great. Whenever his minutes max out (like they did last year), he is terrible - but whenever he is #3, he is a very steady, reliable d-man. Again, I blame Wilson for his ice-time mismanagement . . . which has only decreased his trade value. Someone will get him for very cheap.
Beauchemin is the kind of guy i could see the Canucks interested in depending on the Edler situation, but again, i just don't see the Leafs and Canucks as being ready to deal with one another just yet. Again, unless there's a gross overpayment involved one way or the other. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 09:41:12
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Yeah, was going to say the same Alex - seems all the BC boys are suddenly looking to come play at home, go figure. It started with Mitchell, now Hamhuis, maybe Weber as well.
I can also see the Canucks being interested in Beauchemin, should Edler appear to be out for the full season. We saw a lot of him when he played with ANA, he's a big body that can play a lot of minutes. He has a modified NMC (he names 12 teams each summer he'd be willing to be moved to for the following season), I'm not sure if VAN is on that list or not - probably is.
Duke - no one is doubting Kaberle's regular sesaon stats since the lockout, and no one is comparing his performance to Corvo. The things that will dictate his value at the deadline are a) his UFA status next year, he is a full-on rental, and b) the limited number of teams he will move to. Both will restrict the number and richness of offers that come his way. If he waives his NTC at all. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 09:53:48
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quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
Does anyone realize that Thomas Kaberle has been the 3rd highest point getting defenseman in the NHL since the lockout in 2005 ?? Behind only N. Lidstrom and D. Boyle....
[quote/]
The real question is, "does Duke realize how being a UFA can affect what teams are willing to give up?
[quote]
Thats 5 and 1/2 years of constant scoring on all lousy hockey teams that have not even made the playoffs in this 5 and 1/2 year span.....thats amazing...still no-one gives him the respect he should be getting. ( I`m not a huge Kabby fan, but the facts are facts ).
For a defenseman, when your 3rd best in NHL scoring over this long period........whats the difference in comparing him to the next wave of NHL forwards after Crosby and Ovie..( with regards to NHL regular season points ) If we all agree these 2 are the NHL`s best...then out of the next level of forwards hasn`t some-one got to be number 3 ??....point wise ?? well this is Kaberle as a defenseman !!!!!! no-one can take this from him, proof is in the scoring stats.
Then a comment was made comparing him to Joe Corvo....what a joke. Where does J.Corvo stand in regular season points over the last 6 years ??
UFA or no UFA he is still the NHL`s 3rd best offensive defenseman playing the game, the numbers don`t lie, and playing 90 % of the time on a lousy AHL team.
Who's undervaluing him? Certainly not BB or he'd have traded him by now! I don't think anyone is undervaluing or underestimating Kaberle's skillset, the fact is, he's a UFA and historically, UFA's aren't worth as much at the deadline as those with contracts extending into the next season and beyond!
The only way his value goes up is if a team truly feels he is the ONE piece missing for their cup run, and even then, his value will not be as high as it was when BB could and should have traded him a year or two ago!!! |
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Guest4803
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Posted - 02/01/2011 : 13:59:57
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To Nashville : Erhoff, Raymond and a 1st round pick (or Schneider but Nashville has decent goalie prospects)
To Vancouver : Shea Webber and the Stanley Cup!
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 16:14:33
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guest 4803...do you really think the Canucks are a better team with the 2 players you listed out ....and Webber in ?...i don`t
plus a 1st round pick ? i`m sure nashville would consider this trade if webber wants out. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 18:34:39
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I am hearing a lot on this site about Weber wanting out of Nashville. Does anyone have any information on this that is anywhere close to credible?? I mean, there are many people on here that are keep a pretty close watch on the NHL and this is the first I have heard about Weber wanting out.
Is this one of those situations where someone in Vancouver is starting a rumor based on what they want to happen or is there an actual credible rumor that Weber wants out?? The only news report I can find that even remotely discusses Weber leaving Nashville is the Province. Where is that newspaper from??? Vancouver maybe??
Check out this from Puckdaddy. It will also quote the story in the Province about Weber leaving and a rebuttle from a Nashville writer stating:
What we have here, frankly, is yet another case of a mainstream media member blowing something out of proportion. It is quite the reach in order to place a spark of hope in the hometown fans that yes, maybe, the Canucks have a chance at acquiring one of the NHL's best defensemen! He's from British Columbia, played in the Olympics here, his contract in a Southern market expires. Yes, surely, he will not want to re-sign with the Predators.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Would-Shea-Weber-leave-Nashville-for-a-chance-t?urn=nhl-312772
If you read the story you will see the last comment when someone actually talked to Weber about it and his comment was he is not going anywhere.
Might also want to note that Weber is an RFA not a UFA. It would be in Nashville's best interest to sign him to a decent contract and trade him in the off-season if they actually do move him.
However, I
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 18:36:48
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Does anyone realize that Thomas Kaberle has been the 3rd highest point getting defenseman in the NHL since the lockout in 2005 ?? Behind only N. Lidstrom and D. Boyle....
Love this comment. Does anyone realize that since the lock out, Dion Phaneuf has more goals than any other defensemen (at least up to the start of his year).
What does it mean??? Nothing. The point that Duke fails to appreciate is that no players is traded for their actual value at the deadline. I simply doesn't happen. Similar to an overtime loss still being a loss, a UFA rental is still a UFA rental. |
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TheRC
Rookie
105 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 19:23:00
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I like Kaberle, I always have. He's killer when it comes to breakout passes and puck distribution. Walking the blueline on the powerplay he's probably the best in the game. In his own end, however, he's ok at best. Those exceptional talents in a less than complete overall defensive package make him a great rental player. The teams which would make the most of his talents (and therefore offer something for them) expect to go far and have the depth to use the guy only where he excels.
That said, a rental is just that. No winning team is going to give up anybody who is already making a difference on their roster, or a guy who seems likely to in the future, for the temporary services of a role player, no matter how good he is at his role. Kaberle was on the block before when he still had time on his contract and didn't fetch the asking price.
The Leafs won't get very much this late for Kaberle, regardless of how good he is. Part of me thinks that Burke might just keep him; it may make more sense to get *anything* for a guy who might just leave, but Burke is already in the doghouse with lots of Leaf fans... does he want to be remembered as the guy who gave up Kaberle for a 3rd round pick or a prospect who never goes anywhere? I'm very much afraid Kaberle will just end up walking at the end of the season.
Trade deadline deals are always very strange. Perhaps it's best to just stay away.
"If at first you don't succeed, you fail" |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 19:28:05
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Beans you can rent a Smart car...or you can rent a cadillac...there is a difference 
and for the Cadillac you will pay a higher price... |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 19:32:10
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quote:
Does anyone have any information on this that is anywhere close to credible
Nope. I did state up front that it was a rumour that I'd been seeing on the web - other than wishful thinking I put little credence into it, unless it persists. I didn't see the source, but I don't read the Province so that should not be surprising.
That being said, I would not expect Weber or NSH to say anything other than what is being said, even if Weber wanted out. So we wait.
It is known that Weber is an RFA - with arbitration rights, and 1 year out of UFA. Its not inconceivable that Weber and NSH may not agree on his current worth (NSH has yet to open the purse strings for anyone and is notoriously frugal), and if they go to arbitration and he gets a 1 year deal, NSH could be hard pressed to convince him to sign rather than test the market. We'll see what happens.
At this point, what information is credible for trade deadline deals, other than Kaberle wants out of TO?
quote:
do you really think the Canucks are a better team with the 2 players you listed out ....and Webber in ?...i don`t
I do. I would happily trade Erhoff and Raymond for Weber. I would even throw in Hodgson. Weber is one of the top-5 defensemen in the league. A defensive group of Weber, Hamhuis, Ballard, Edler, Bieksa going into the playoffs? Yes please.
Erhoff would be a gimme - if the Canucks were to be lucky enough to get a Weber, they would have to get rid of 1 or possibly 2 of their existing defensive corp. |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 19:36:21
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By the way Beans, Kaberle is on pace for a 54 point season, on yet another lousy team, having another lousy season, who are amongst the leagues worst teams in goal scoring !!!.... and are going to miss the playoffs again...what motivation.
Can you imagine his numbers since the lock-out if he were on a high scoring team ?? being 3rd overall already on the lowly leafs.
What the hell has Phaneuf have to do with Kaberles value ? |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 19:51:47
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RC i can easily see a cup legitimate team giving up more than they want to for 1 stanley cup, its been done over and over. Teams know its not easy getting that close and may only happen once in 10 years for some teams.
Would you give up one blue chip prospect ( not talking about a taylor hall player ) for a UFA who you thought would bring you to the stanley cup finals ?...and possibly a ring ? For some players and teams this is a 1 shot deal, timing is everything.
Can you imagine Washington with Green and Kaberle on the power play together...may be that one move to get to the finals or not.
There are still many, many teams who have not won a Stanley Cup. Washington just signed Semin to a ONE YEAR DEAL ONLY..., who knows when this team will dis-assemble. They need a big move to get them to the finals and the only way to get there is to bring in experience and move out some youth.
It will cost them some-what down the road but if they want a cup, you have to pay the price. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 20:02:49
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quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
By the way Beans, Kaberle is on pace for a 54 point season, on yet another lousy team, having another lousy season, who are amongst the leagues worst teams in goal scoring !!!.... and are going to miss the playoffs again...what motivation.
Can you imagine his numbers since the lock-out if he were on a high scoring team ?? being 3rd overall already on the lowly leafs.
What the hell has Phaneuf have to do with Kaberles value ?
By the way, I like how different math is in different places. In some places, overtime losses equal zero and in some places a player with 30 points in 49 games in on pace for 54 points.
Do the math and let me know what you come up with.
Point is, Kaberle being the 3rd highest scoring defensemen means about as much as Phaneuf having the most goals.
Nothing.
Bottom line, compare Kaberle to Wisnewski-this season-as it's the only thing that matters. This season. Both are very similar players and bring the very same type of game to the ice. I am not arguing who is better than who. The point is they are performance nearly the same.
What did Wisnewski fetch in a trade?? A 3rd rounder.
Jordan Leopold, a player with just 3 fewer points than Kaberle and the same +/- got a 2nd rounder at last years trade deadline.
The list goes on and on. |
Edited by - Beans15 on 02/01/2011 20:08:37 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 20:15:00
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quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
Beans you can rent a Smart car...or you can rent a cadillac...there is a difference
and for the Cadillac you will pay a higher price...
Are you serious??? Really, this has got to be a joke??? Why is it that you can't see that players at the deadline do not have the same value?? It's not like we are talking about 2 players of different values and I am saying they are worth the same.
Let's have a proper analogy.
You can play Jasper Park Lodge golf course for $220 in the peak of the season. You can tee off at 8am and play an entire round. Or, you can play the same course later in the day at their twilight rate of $120 and potentially not finish the round or not experience the entire offering of the course.
Is the exact same course, right??? Nothing changes between Peak Time or twilight on the golf course. Same course.
One is a risk and one is far more of a sure things. It could rain or it could be a windy day, but if you tee off at 8am, you will for certain get the entire round in. If you play twilight, you might get the entire round in or you might have to walk off after 11 holes.
The course is the same. The value is different because the timing is different.
It's not that hard of a concept, is it???? |
Edited by - Beans15 on 02/02/2011 08:31:10 |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 20:16:07
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quote:
Would you give up one blue chip prospect ( not talking about a taylor hall player ) for a UFA who you thought would bring you to the stanley cup finals ?...and possibly a ring ? For some players and teams this is a 1 shot deal, timing is everything.
If I were competing with 28 other teams in the NHL for his services, I might be persuaded to overpay for his services. If I was one of 3 teams that were bidding for him, I don't know how much I'd overpay, if at all. Sadly, NTC's will create a different atmosphere. The key for Burke will be to create a bidding war, if he wants to see much for Kaberle.
The other thing - how will Kaberle do in the postseason? When was the last post-season game that he played (if at all)?
Duke, I appreciate that you're a TOR fan, and feel that Kaberle is going to get a lot in return, but I just don't see it. There are other defensemen available at the deadline, and many of them may be cheaper options to a team that is already half-way there. Not a lot of contending teams are shallow on offensive defensmen - its more the big minute physical defenseman that most of them want, which Kaberle is not. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 20:29:52
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quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
RC i can easily see a cup legitimate team giving up more than they want to for 1 stanley cup, its been done over and over. Teams know its not easy getting that close and may only happen once in 10 years for some teams.
Would you give up one blue chip prospect ( not talking about a taylor hall player ) for a UFA who you thought would bring you to the stanley cup finals ?...and possibly a ring ? For some players and teams this is a 1 shot deal, timing is everything.
Can you imagine Washington with Green and Kaberle on the power play together...may be that one move to get to the finals or not.
There are still many, many teams who have not won a Stanley Cup. Washington just signed Semin to a ONE YEAR DEAL ONLY..., who knows when this team will dis-assemble. They need a big move to get them to the finals and the only way to get there is to bring in experience and move out some youth.
It will cost them some-what down the road but if they want a cup, you have to pay the price.
Speaking of this, can anyone tell me the last team to make any kind of decent trade deadline moves that actually won the Cup???
Often, almost always, teams that make moves at the deadline of any significance do not succeed in the playoffs. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 20:55:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Speaking of this, can anyone tell me the last team to make any kind of decent trade deadline moves that actually won the Cup???
Often, almost always, teams that make moves at the deadline of any significance do not succeed in the playoffs.
Beans, i was thinking this same thing, and it means to me that Kaberle won't be "overpaid" for. Teams just don't wanna give up too much for anything because the playoffs are so wide open. It's not like 10 years ago where only 2 or 3 teams really had a very good shot at the cup. That has changed. Ask Philly. Look at them last year. Ask the Oilers who came as close as you can get without winning, as an 8 seed! Ask Pittsburgh and Washington last year. They were two who everyone thought were favorites! Just not the same so why would a GM wanna forfeit a great piece of his teams future for such a gamble?
As for the Weber rumours, like nuxfan said, they're just that, rumours. I've yet to see where he's said he wants out and perhaps it is the mainstream media who's driving this rumour? I read that article you supplied earlier today and was going to post it when i saw you did. It's a great article and brings up both sides well. I too could see Weber wanting out after making the playoffs over and over without a single series win. The Preds just seem to lack that extra stud or two because as a small market team, they're not willing to spend for it! This has to frustrate a guy. On the other hand, he was made captain, he's had some success and it's quite possible he's a very loyal guy who sees the possibility that they can win there?
As far as him saying he wants out, i wouldn't expect to hear it made public, at least not yet, especially with the Preds desperate to resign him! It's not often, unless there's a feud that a guy comes out and says he wants out at this point in a season, especially on a team in 4th place in the conference. I'm guessing that if he has requested to the Preds that he wants out, or he's told them that he's leaning towards leaving at the end of next season, it will be kept quiet until they've exhausted all avenues to sign him. It's very possible they'll keep him for the playoffs this year and try to actually advance, showing him they're improving. If they don't, they can still trade him in the offseason, providing he signs a one year deal with them? At some point, if he has or does request out, i'm sure you'll hear it from the Preds that he requested such. |
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
360 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 21:10:02
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First off beans is completely correct when stating that you never get a UFA at their appropiate value. No teams going to give up future potential for something that is a non guarntee after the playoffs. Duke here's what you are forgetting with your car analogy and i am going to change it up because you can't compare a smart car (as ugly as it is) to cadillac as one is an american piece of c**p and the other a Mercedes German engineering. When you rent a cheap toyota echo ( kyle wellwood) you don't care what happens to it as it is a minor purchase and may not even get rental insurance as the cost of damage is limited (5th round pick maybe). When you buy a Jaguar (Thomas Kaberle) you make sure you get the insurance (that he will be there longer then two months) before you throw big money (high draft picks / decent prospects ) and go joy riding with it.
RC you made the comment that Kaberle is the best at walking the line on the PP. If so why is Toronto one of the worst pp teams in the league? the whole point of walking the line is to create space and a shooting lane. You should watch video on Nick Lidstrom the real best dman at walking the line and their are countless others better then Kaberle at doing so.
Duke not trying to pick out comments you made but you had one that is optimistic at best "Imagine how good Kaberle's numbers would be if he was on a good team" Kovalchuk & Jokinen where automatic 30 - 40 goal scorers & 75 - 90 (averaged out) point guys from 02-03 to 08 - 09 while playing on lowly Atlanta & Florida teams. Others that come to mind that kicked a** on their lower seeded teams are Hossa, Nathan Horton, Jay Boumesteer & Brian Cambell. All of which have had their production drop some more drastic then others.On the other hand if you look at Byfuglein this yr. Goes from an elite team playing 8 - 10 minutes to a crappy team playing all the time and producing points. The only player recently to go to a better team and produce by leaps and bounds is Gaborik and that was solely because he disposed of the Sami Salo injury serum (sorry nux fans i couldn't resist) and managed to play the full season. What you are forgetting when you make a comment like the one you did is in Toronto Kaberle is a one - one A defenseman who plays all situations and is given all the chances in the world to produce. Send him to Detroit, Chicago or Philly and his minutes are immediately reduced because he is a defensive liability who refuses to hit (please don't come back that Lidstrom doesn't hit as they have a totally different skill set) would be playing 3rd - 5th defenseman minutes as oppose to num 1 and in a 1-0, 3-2 meaningful game on one of those teams with 5 minutes to play good luck getting Lidstrom, Kronwall, Stuart, Rafalski, Seabrook, Keith, Hjalmarson & Pronger, Timmonen, Coburn off the ice to let him play at all. I get the optimism that naturally comes to mind send a good player to a better team and they will be great. However, unless your name is Crosby, Stamkos, Pronger or Lidstrom more often then not if you get traded to a better team you will likely see your minutes reduced and your oppurtunites shortened.
Regardless Kaberle is not going anywhere Burke's asking price is clearly to high thus his inability to move him in yrs past
Lemieux owns Gretzky |
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
360 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 21:14:26
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Beans & Alex the only two i can recall in recent history as far as mid season trades not necesarily deadline are Roy & Bourque in Colorado and those are still 10 - 15 yr stretches nothing in the post lock out that i can recall
Lemieux owns Gretzky |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2011 : 22:41:44
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quote:
It's not often, unless there's a feud that a guy comes out and says he wants out at this point in a season, especially on a team in 4th place in the conference
Actually, after last year's Souray debacle, I bet we never hear a player say "I want a trade" ever again, period. |
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ToXXiK1
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
696 Posts |
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Sensfan101
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
500 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2011 : 06:17:16
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I heard on Tsn that the Canucks would be looking to add some depth to their fourth line. What about Jarko Ruutu? HE might be a good fit. Maybe for a third round pick.
You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take Wayne Gretzky |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2011 : 08:30:43
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It's not mainstream media starting the Weber rumors, it's Vancouver media starting Weber rumors. Actually, from what I can see it's one guy with a voice who see something that no one else sees.
Everything I have read has indicated that Weber is perfectly happy in Nashville. He is not going anywhere. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2011 : 09:34:00
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The Canucks are looking for a 4th line centre - we pretty much have needed one since Rypien left the team. Its been a combination of Glass and Volpatti filling in - Glass is actually not half bad, apparently Malhotra has been teaching him how to take faceoffs. But a centre would be needed.
There are some former Canucks that I would love to see back, and some that I would not. Ruutu is one of the latter.
There has been speculation that if CGY becomes a seller again, that the Canucks may pursue Morrisson...
quote:
Everything I have read has indicated that Weber is perfectly happy in Nashville. He is not going anywhere.
Well, we'll see what happens this trade deadline and summer. Nothing is impossible. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2011 : 14:02:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
It's not mainstream media starting the Weber rumors, it's Vancouver media starting Weber rumors. Actually, from what I can see it's one guy with a voice who see something that no one else sees.
Everything I have read has indicated that Weber is perfectly happy in Nashville. He is not going anywhere.
Beans, again, it's all rumors but there was talk months ago about what he might choose to do considering his contract status and upcoming RFA status. Following that, the possibility that he reaches UFA status! Anyway, here's an article written last November by Andy Strickland and it doesn't come out and say "Shea Weber personally told me......blah, blah, blah...." so take it for what it's worth.
Here's the link to the article: http://www.truehockey.com/articles/Weber-Contract-Talks-Remain-in-Early-Stages
Here's the most important paragraph relating to the possibility of Weber wanting out, and again, it's basically heresay so take it for what it's worth.....
Depending on who you talk to you get varying reports about what Weber wants to do. Those close to the Nashville organization assure me he wants to remain with the Predators long-term while players around the league will tell you he wants out. Some players have told me Weber wants to win and he’s not sure if Nashville is in position to produce a winner considering their financial disadvantages.
So, while Ed Willes is in fact a Vancouver Province writer and was prob more or less just suggesting that Weber may want out (and thus starting rumors), he was not the first to suggest such a scenario! |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2011 : 14:19:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
RC i can easily see a cup legitimate team giving up more than they want to for 1 stanley cup, its been done over and over. Teams know its not easy getting that close and may only happen once in 10 years for some teams.
Would you give up one blue chip prospect ( not talking about a taylor hall player ) for a UFA who you thought would bring you to the stanley cup finals ?...and possibly a ring ? For some players and teams this is a 1 shot deal, timing is everything.
Can you imagine Washington with Green and Kaberle on the power play together...may be that one move to get to the finals or not.
There are still many, many teams who have not won a Stanley Cup. Washington just signed Semin to a ONE YEAR DEAL ONLY..., who knows when this team will dis-assemble. They need a big move to get them to the finals and the only way to get there is to bring in experience and move out some youth.
It will cost them some-what down the road but if they want a cup, you have to pay the price.
Speaking of this, can anyone tell me the last team to make any kind of decent trade deadline moves that actually won the Cup???
Often, almost always, teams that make moves at the deadline of any significance do not succeed in the playoffs.
Even though I don't think Kaberle will fetch much at trade deadline, mostly because of his NTC and secondly because of his UFA coming up.
But I agree a little bit with duke that teams will overpay to get a chance to the finals.
And since you asked here's an example. Hossa went to Pittsburgh at the trade deadline, Pittsburgh came one game short of winning the cup. That run gave them enough experience to win the cup the next year.
Also didn't Carolina got Doug Weight and Mark Recchi near the trade deadline when they won the cup???
but that's it I don't have any more examples since the lockout...
All that being said, you're right Kaberle is most then likely to walk off this summer.... Unless they fire Ron Wilson and Kaberle all of a sudden wants to resign. (Yes that's right I blame everything on Ron Wilson)
Kessel got drafted last.... all your fault Ronnie. |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2011 : 16:40:13
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Leafs 81...Hossa led Pittsburg in playoff scoring that year i think.....not bad for a pick-up, and your right, that experience helped them big time.
Nuxfan at least you talk sense with your comments.
Beams that statement you made regarding kaberles 3rd best point totals for a defenseman since the lock-out...mean nothing....
just proves to me that you are a major , major, leaf hater and have a huge problem with the leaf organization...lotta hatred there my friend.
How can you say being # 3 in the NHL, ( best league in the world ) for the past 5 plus seasons mean nothing ?? Why does kaberles #`s mean nothing ?? Why him ??
Does Crosbys #`s mean nothing too ?? Does Ovies #`s mean nothing ?? why do you have such a problem with kaberle ?
You just can`t admit one leaf player is 3rd best in the league in this categorty can you.... yes thats 3rd overall ( ALL DEFENSEMAN )
p.s...don`t twist this around and ask me if i`m comparing kaberle to Crosby and Ovie.....you know i`m not but you have a tendency to re-word things to make a point that some-one else IS NOT MAKING. |
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JonPolley
Top Prospect
Canada
49 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2011 : 19:55:11
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| I just wish some team would just start the carnage and make a move so we can stop all this speculating. I know it's still early and theres like a month until the deadline but it still could happen.. bring on the trades! |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2011 : 20:57:10
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Duke, get it through you head. It has nothing to do with Kaberle. You are making all these statements about me being a Leaf hater, blah, blah, blah because you think I have a hate on for Kaberle?? I have stated on here countless times the virtues of Kaberle and that he has been on of the best for TO for a long time. But that is irrelevant.
UFA and Rental Player are the only thing that matters.
It doesn't matter who we are talking about. Take any UFA rental player and their value completely drops at the trade deadline. Trade Kaberle 2 seasons ago and he is worth more than likely a solid player and a top draft pick (1st or 2nd round). Move Kaberle in the past off season and he's worth a 2nd line player and a 2nd round draft pick. Trade him before Christmas and he's worth a 2nd line player. Move him at the trade deadline he's worth a 2nd round pick.
Seriously, stop with the crap. It's not about Kaberle. It's not about being a Leaf hater. It's about what happens every year at the trade deadline.
And I am not the only one saying this.
Major Leaf hater??? It has nothing to do with it. |
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Guest3087
( )
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Posted - 02/02/2011 : 21:01:13
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| beans your a f**get who thinks cuz youve been at the site all your life while blogging in your mama's basement that you can call out anyone you like. well guess what your wrong |
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Guest3087
( )
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Posted - 02/02/2011 : 21:04:55
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| THE DUKE FOR PICKUPHOCKEY PREZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Utemin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
451 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2011 : 21:14:52
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quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
Leafs 81...Hossa led Pittsburg in playoff scoring that year i think.....not bad for a pick-up, and your right, that experience helped them big time.
Nuxfan at least you talk sense with your comments.
Beams that statement you made regarding kaberles 3rd best point totals for a defenseman since the lock-out...mean nothing....
just proves to me that you are a major , major, leaf hater and have a huge problem with the leaf organization...lotta hatred there my friend.How can you say being # 3 in the NHL, ( best league in the world ) for the past 5 plus seasons mean nothing ?? Why does kaberles #`s mean nothing ?? Why him ??
Does Crosbys #`s mean nothing too ?? Does Ovies #`s mean nothing ?? why do you have such a problem with kaberle ?
You just can`t admit one leaf player is 3rd best in the league in this categorty can you.... yes thats 3rd overall ( ALL DEFENSEMAN )
p.s...don`t twist this around and ask me if i`m comparing kaberle to Crosby and Ovie.....you know i`m not but you have a tendency to re-word things to make a point that some-one else IS NOT MAKING.
Hockey is full of hate and love for hockey is life
I have not posted for a few weeks due to school, and find out that the PKH world has gone more nuts without me
Don't hate me because i'm Beautiful |
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Trade Deadline 2011 - Predictions 
