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Jumbo Joe Rocks
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
410 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2011 :  07:55:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://twitter.com/tsn_wally

http://twitter.com/tsn_wally

Posted two because 1 probably wont work

Guest4748
( )

Posted - 02/18/2011 :  08:45:14  Reply with Quote
Advantage ottawa, I say !
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2011 :  08:54:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm not sure who the advantage goes to, perhaps this just works for both sides. Anderson is a UFA next year, OTT could have had him in the summer had they pursued him and he wanted to move there - I don't think COL was going to resign him, he's had a disappointing year. We'll see if he can regain form, and whether or not OTT can keep him this offseason - his next contract will be an interesting one.

In exchange, COL get a young goalie (who has also had a disappointing year), who is RFA and has many potentially good years ahead. My guess is that COL will ditch Budaj, go with Elliot as the backup, and get another goalie as a free agent.

Edited by - nuxfan on 02/18/2011 08:54:56
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2011 :  09:46:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Has there been a team in the NHL in the past 5 years that has struggled more with finding a quality starting goalie that Ottawa?? I don't think Anderson is the answer either. I don't see him as any better than Elliot. Kind of a nothing trade in my opinion unless Murray is planning on using Anderson in another deal to a team. Frankly, with all the injuries in the TO system, Anderson's salary for the rest of the year is super cheap.
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ToXXiK1
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Canada
696 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2011 :  10:12:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Philadelphia comes to mind.
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Guest3386
( )

Posted - 02/18/2011 :  11:41:09  Reply with Quote
I disagree with you there Beans. Anderson has been a very solid goalie throughout his career, consistently having an GAA under 3 and a SV% hovering around the .920 mark. Last year he was exceptional, and almost willed the Avs to within a game of the 2nd round.

He's had injuries thus far this season, and its no secret that the Avs have had injuries of their own on the backend. Couple that with the fact that the Avalanche team is young and relatively inexperienced, it's no wonder why Anderson's numbers are weaker this season.

Still, he is entering his prime and has the ability to be exceptional. Ottawa should hold on to this guy, and they have definitely won this trade.
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spade632
Rookie



Canada
247 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2011 :  12:15:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think Ottawa wins this trade too.

Elliot has been sub par for Ottawa, especially this season (then again so has the entire team).

Anderson, as Guest says, has good, even great potential. And, because he's UFA at the end of the season it's no risk to Ottawa - they're not on the hook for a big salary if it turns out that Anderson doens't do the job.
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irvine
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Canada
1315 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2011 :  13:08:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ottawa clearly did not see Elliot as their future goaltender. Lehner likely is, so perhaps Ottawa wanted to acquire a goaltender with more leadership and more play than Elliott, to help along the young Lehner for the rest of this season. Hence, Mr. Anderson?

And, if things work out, they can consider re-signing him for next year.

Irvine/prez.
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Sensfan101
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Canada
500 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2011 :  14:40:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'd say Ottawa won this trade Elliot was an inconsistant backup at best

You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take Wayne Gretzky
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2011 :  14:53:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sensfan101

I'd say Ottawa won this trade Elliot was an inconsistant backup at best

You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take Wayne Gretzky



What do you think Anderson has been?? For most of his career he has been an inconsistant back up. He had a great season last year and has been hurt for part of this year, but he hasn't proven much more than Elliot has. Statistically speaking, they are both close with the exception that Anderson is 4 years older than Elliot.

I don't see this as such a big win for Ottawa. This is a wash deal in my opinion with neither team 'winning' the trade.
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sahis34
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Canada
573 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2011 :  15:15:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Has there been a team in the NHL in the past 5 years that has struggled more with finding a quality starting goalie that Ottawa?? I don't think Anderson is the answer either. I don't see him as any better than Elliot. Kind of a nothing trade in my opinion unless Murray is planning on using Anderson in another deal to a team. Frankly, with all the injuries in the TO system, Anderson's salary for the rest of the year is super cheap.



''The guy who had better numbers in Florida than he does in Colorado and really chased Vokoun from the net even after he came back from injury???

Anderson's career was pretty solid in Florida.''

You said that beans, and we all know how he got the young avs into the playoffs last year. How don't you see ottawa winning this trade when they get a legitamate #1 that's supposed to be better than voukon?

Go OILERS Go!!!
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Guest0288
( )

Posted - 02/18/2011 :  15:48:27  Reply with Quote
ya beans I respect you and your hockey knowledge and your opinion, but i think your talking out of your ass on this one
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Guest5958
( )

Posted - 02/18/2011 :  16:15:56  Reply with Quote
Senators don't win this trade because:

a) the senators are not going to make the playoffs this year, and
b) Anderson is a UFA at the end of the season.

A + B = senators picking up a rental to pad their golf roster. Even if they resign Anderson, they could have always attempted to do so in the offseason anyway. And even if we acknowledge that Anderson is at this point better than Elliot, Elliot is younger and probably still developing, plus is a RFA at the end of the season, allowing the avs a strong chance of keeping him around if they want.

So basically we have a rental traded to a non-playoff team for a relatively shaky prospect. That is a trade of little consequence. Advantage Beans.
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Sensfan101
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Canada
500 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2011 :  16:20:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes Beans Anderson hasn't been great this year but he has proved before that he can be a number 1. All Elliot has proved is that he can get hot for a few games and then go back to being mediocore

You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take Wayne Gretzky
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2011 :  17:09:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The biggest question mark for this trade is Anderson's UFA status - specifically:

- what does it cost OTT to sign him. His last contract was a sort of "yeah I had a good year in FLA, but I'll take a cheepie to prove it wasn't a fluke". And it wasn't. So what is the next contract amount for Anderson?

- does he even sign in OTT? He is UFA, and can go anywhere. Not trying to kick a team when they're down, but OTT hasn't exactly made themselves a hockey destination over the last few seasons for UFA's. I think there is a good bet that they cannot keep him - hell, he may resign in COL over the summer, word is that he liked it there.

Unless OTT can sign Anderson for a few years at a reasonable amount (4M or less per year), and he continues to do well, I don't think that OTT necessarily wins this deal. If Anderson does not sign with OTT at all, then they flat out lost it - Elliott is only 25 years old, there is still lots of career in front of him.

Edited by - nuxfan on 02/18/2011 17:10:28
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5686 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2011 :  20:00:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest5958
A + B = senators picking up a rental to pad their golf roster.


guest, please provide a link to prove that Anderson is a good golfer!

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Guest9885
( )

Posted - 02/18/2011 :  20:07:43  Reply with Quote
I'll back you up Beans. Neither one is all that great. They have both had their moments buts that's about it.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4511 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2011 :  05:48:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
But Anderson's best moments were far brighter than Elliot's, and more recent.

Win for Ottawa, but likely, nothing much comes of it.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Utemin
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
450 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2011 :  12:17:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ottawa got the advantage by far from the trade. The only problem is Ottawa is so crappy that it won't make a difference...

Don't hate me because i'm Beautiful
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2011 :  12:53:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Guys, help me understand this:

Craig Anderson -

213 GP, 87 wins(.408 win %), 83 losses, 21 ties a 2.85 GAA and a .911 save % playing between Chicago, Florida, and Colorado.

Brian Elliot

130 games, 59 wins (.453 win %), 45 losses, 15 ties, 2.81 GAA and a .903 save % playing for Ottawa.

Help me understand what Ottawa got that Colorado got other than a goalie that is 4 years older and has about one more season of games worth of experience?????
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Sensfan101
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
500 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2011 :  14:26:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Guys, help me understand this:

Craig Anderson -

213 GP, 87 wins(.408 win %), 83 losses, 21 ties a 2.85 GAA and a .911 save % playing between Chicago, Florida, and Colorado.

Brian Elliot

130 games, 59 wins (.453 win %), 45 losses, 15 ties, 2.81 GAA and a .903 save % playing for Ottawa.

Help me understand what Ottawa got that Colorado got other than a goalie that is 4 years older and has about one more season of games worth of experience?????


Because Brian Elliot sucks! I don't know if you have watched a lot of Sens games but he was terrible. He was always letting in momentum deflating bad goals that really cost his team.

You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take Wayne Gretzky
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2011 :  15:39:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So, if Anderson has very similar numbers to Elliot and Ellott sucks, what does that say about Anderson?

A + B = C?????

Just watching Sportsnet after the brilliant Oilers come from behind win and they were talking about this trade. Brophy said it very well. It was something along the lines of Ottawa might appear to have won this deal but Anderson has really had only one good year and they way he has played this year makes lends itself to the belief Anderson is more a one hit wonder than he is a real deal.
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Sensfan101
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
500 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2011 :  18:05:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Alright Anderson had one good year Elliot had 0 good years. The numbers don't always tell everything. You can't see in his GAA all the bad goals Elliot has let in. He was letting in bad goal pretty much every game this year.

You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take Wayne Gretzky
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
902 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2011 :  19:14:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How about Anderson tonight! 47 save shut-out, plus blanked the Leafs in the shoot-out, incredible!
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2011 :  19:28:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sensfan101

Alright Anderson had one good year Elliot had 0 good years. The numbers don't always tell everything. You can't see in his GAA all the bad goals Elliot has let in. He was letting in bad goal pretty much every game this year.

You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take Wayne Gretzky



You are right, numbers are not everything. But they do tell a story. As I have said in the past, stats are a symptom of play. Good players have good stats. Bad players have bad stats. They are valid in making some comparisons. But I agree they are not everything.

Again, if they both have similar stats it's really hard to say that they are not at least similar in their performance. One can not reasonably say that one goalie with a GAA of around 3 lets in weak goals and a goalie with a similar GAA does not let in weak goals.
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1028 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2011 :  20:40:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans , always the numbers guy.

Anderson was spectaular for the Av`s last year. I know i cursed on him enough tonight watching him make unbelieveable saves againist my leafs. Think he made 47 - 48 saves or something. Ottawa won a game they had no chance to win....but Anderson thought diffrent...completely stole this game.

Elliot is useless, the Av`s GM must be a complete moron to make this deal. As far as being a UFA at seasons end...it`s surely easier to sign a guy to a contract when he is playing for your team...Ottawa has first dibs on him now. Complete steal for Ottawa, great move by Murray.

Ottawa moved out a meaningless player and brought in a really good goalie. When comparing goalies you have to look at the team he is on also. Anderson played for a bunch of in-experienced team-mates, Elliot played for a veteran team with great defense.

With even numbers in this scenario, Anderson wins hands down.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2011 :  07:40:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What?? Duke, seriously. If you are going to make a point, make sure it's accurate. The only year that Anderson has played well in his entire career was behind a Colorado team that went to the playoffs. And Brian Elliot has played in front of a great defense?? Seriously, did you just say that?? Ottawa has never been higher than the 15th ranked defense in the 3 years Elliot has played. How is that a great defense?? They were a bad defense with a single great defensive pairing (Phillips and Volchenkov) up until this year. Anderson played behind a group that included Foote, Liles, Quincey, Hannan, and Wilson.

I don't know about your thoughts, but a group of defensemen like that are far from 'inexperienced."

Again, agruing with people that can not see any other point than their own is pointless. I get that Anderson had a great season last year. He was one of the best goalies and I believe he should have won the Vezina for 09/10. But one season does not a goalie make. There are countless names I could list right now of goalies who had one really great season and went on to be average of below average for the rest of thier career. I am not saying that I would take Elliot over Anderson. All I am saying is that all this talk about Ottawa winning this trade hands down is simply not the case.

Bottom line is that Ottawa still has to sign a goalie in 4 months. Will it be Anderson?? Who knows. But why trade away a guy that might be a decent start eventually and at worst be a very servicable back up for a guy that is not signed and outside of one hot season really isn't any better??


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Utemin
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
450 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2011 :  11:48:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ryan93

How about Anderson tonight! 47 save shut-out, plus blanked the Leafs in the shoot-out, incredible!


both teams got a shut out :) I believe this is Toronto's horrible offense trying to use a Detroit stategy of shooting the puck.

Don't hate me because i'm Beautiful
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
902 Posts

Posted - 03/03/2011 :  20:30:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Anderson with yet another big game tonight for the Sens, stopping 42 of 43 for the 2-1 win. He's now 4-2 in Ottawa, with a 1.16 GAA & .966 sp%.
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1028 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2011 :  11:21:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans did you watch the Avs in the playoffs last season ??...i did, they were horrible, couldn1t get the puck out of their own end....you just listed a couple of veteran defenseman to make them look like a veteran team or something.....i said they are a very, very young inexperienced team...and they are....

Who were their leaders Beans...?? young Stastny...young O`.Reilly....

The Avs Beans were probally the youngest... most in - experienced ( forward group ) in the playoffs last season....

The Sens on the other hand went to the stanley cup playoff FINALS in 2007 and were perrenial playoff makers each season....while being led by the like of Alfred...Spezza....Fisher....etc.....

If you think my posts are nonsense by pointing out these facts to you .....then you my friend talk a lot of s**t.

numbers, numbers numbers, blah...blah...blah
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2011 :  12:40:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you are trying to instigate something by making personal comments such as ' you talk a lot of sh*t' then I will tell you two things. Firstly, it will not work. Secondly, it is against the forum guidelines. Please respect the site and manage your comments accordingly.

Now, to the point at hand. If you wish to change the argument to prove your point, I am a little confused as to what exactly you are trying to prove. You argued the Avalanche were inexperienced in front of Anderson right?? I understand that defense is a team concept, however the backbone of the defense is the goaltending and defensive core. Considering that, how can you say that a group of defensemen in Colorado including Foote, Salei, Hannan, and Clark all over the age of 30 as well as Quincey at 25 and Liles and 28 are inexperienced??


But those are just numbers right??




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polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro



525 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2011 :  13:49:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Have to agree with Beans. Last year, Colorado did not have an "inexperienced defense."

Last year, (09-10 season) Here are the D-men that played at least 41 games "In front of" Anderson:
Player-Current Age:
Liles-30
Quincey-25
Wilson-24
Clark-34
Hannan-32
Foote-39
In comparison, here is who played D for Ottawa in 09-10 for more than half the season(Lee played 23games, Sutton 18gamess)
Kuba-34
Karlsson-20
Phillips-32
Campoli-26
Picard-25
Volchenkov-29
Carkner-30

So for defense last year, just looking at ages, colorado had two D-men 25 and under, while Ottawa had 3 25-and-under.

BTW @Duke: watching Colorado in the playoffs doesn't mean as much if you barely watched them in the regular season. I bet beans watched more games with Colorado, as they are in the same division as EDM. Out west, we are in the same viewing region as CGY, so we have the opportunity to watch all the COL games vs. CGY. That's at least 12 COL games that are available for viewing in the west, not to mention featured games that networks like TSN provide.

Yup, watching COL in the playoffs would give you a really good idea of the team, but not as good as those out west who periodically watched them play throughout the season.

Edited by - polishexpress on 03/05/2011 13:52:19
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1028 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2011 :  14:26:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Each game i watched the Av`s last season in the playoffs PolishExpress, the puck was always in the Av`s end and Anderson was bombarded with shots, he was outstanding.

I`ve watched Elliot play quite often with Ottawa and he is at best an NHL backup....i`m sure any Ottawa fan here will agree with me. Ottawa has tried numerous goalies because of Elliot`s short-comings...he was given every opportunity to play in Ottawa...he just couldn`t do it.

Ottawa wins this trade hands down because they gave up NOTHING !!!
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1028 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2011 :  14:30:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry Beans if i insulted you in any way. I don`t mean to do that to anyone but sometimes people just word posts that make another poster feel stupid.

Just because someone doesn`t agree with a persons thoughts.....doesn`t make the other person right.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 03/05/2011 :  15:05:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

Ottawa wins this trade hands down because they gave up NOTHING !!!



This trade currently has no winner.

OTT are destined to finish bottom 3 in the NHL this season, so Anderson gives them nothing for this season. Further, he is UFA at the end of the season, and its not certain that OTT can sign him or if he even wants to play in OTT.

COL got a goalie that will likely be their backup next year, but is signed and who's value can go nowhere but up.

Unless OTT signs Anderson for to a decent value for a couple of years, and continues to play at this level, AND Elliot does indeed remain a backup goalie and does not progress, then OTT has not won this trade in any way.
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
807 Posts

Posted - 03/06/2011 :  15:45:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

The biggest question mark for this trade is Anderson's UFA status - specifically:

- what does it cost OTT to sign him. His last contract was a sort of "yeah I had a good year in FLA, but I'll take a cheepie to prove it wasn't a fluke". And it wasn't. So what is the next contract amount for Anderson?

- does he even sign in OTT? He is UFA, and can go anywhere. Not trying to kick a team when they're down, but OTT hasn't exactly made themselves a hockey destination over the last few seasons for UFA's. I think there is a good bet that they cannot keep him - hell, he may resign in COL over the summer, word is that he liked it there.


Believe I heard recently that Anderson turned down a 2 year extension worth $7.5 M from COL.

The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2012.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 03/06/2011 :  17:47:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I read somewhere recently that OTT was preparing to offer a 3yr/10M contract to Anderson...but if he turned down 2 years @ 3.75 from COL, it sounds like OTT will have to do better.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1854 Posts

Posted - 03/10/2011 :  19:48:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Devils advocate here. Really thought Elliot was gonna be a good goalie. Defense around Ottawa let this young man down.

Obviously Beans doesnt know or cannot remember Anderson stealing games in Florida prior to his offseason aquisition by Colorado. Florida couldnt dump Vokoun and couldnt afford 2 #1 goalies. I was the first person I know to pick him up for my hockey pool during the Offseason, expecting better things to come. Anderson had deflated stats this year due to injuries and Colorado's implode. They had the look of desperation in the last 30 games or so. A change of scenery later and Anderson is back to old habits and this is playing IMO with an inferior team in front of him right now.

Elliot on the other hand had the advantage of playing behind, for the beginning of his career, a team which most considered to be on the cusp of a cup. The team as a whole deflated badly, in no small part due to goaltending. They lean on this young promising goalie to deliver a few wins that they otherwise did not deserve and he caved.

So on one hand you have an injured goalie recovering, who by most (except Beans), is considered an exceptional and seasoned #1 goalie, against a backup goalie who didnt deliver to his promise and you have no long term commitment if the UFA cant deliver. You can already see the results on the scoresheets. Definatley an Ottawa win here.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 03/10/2011 :  19:54:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Exceptional??? Really?? If he was so exceptional out of Florida, how was he not able to sign a deal bigger than $1.8 per season over 2 years???

I don't dislike Anderson or his skills. I just think goalies need to prove themselves over a period of time before they are considered quality. It has happened far too many times where goalies are hot and get paid and then tank.

Craig Anderson has been an bona fied NHL starter for 2 seasons. So what Jose Thodore, was he not?? So was Cristobal Huet right??? Anderson is a back up on 50% of the teams in the NHL and a starter on the other 50%.

I don't call that exceptional.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1854 Posts

Posted - 03/10/2011 :  20:09:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Disagree with almost all of your last post. But will let time decide this one as your will to argue it is to great.

Ok, I'll argue a little. How many of those goalies that he be backup for are you considering that are currently higher in the standing than Ottawa and Colorado. Out of those goalies who outplayed him last year.

He'd be #1 in

NYI
Florida
Atlanta
Edmonton
Toronto
Philly
Ottawa
Colorado

He may be as good as the goalies playing for

Sanjose
Columbus
Washington?!

Id maybe even consider him an upgrade in Detroit. There is probably a few more but these one are the easiest to pick on.

#1 Out of those goalies who outplayed him last year?

#2 Of those teams who is Elliot the #1 bonified goalie for?

Clearly an Ottawa win here
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8152 Posts

Posted - 03/10/2011 :  20:56:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The NHL has 30 teams. You listed 11 teams that he would be #1 on or perhaps as good as the current starter. You disagree with almost everything I say but show he would not be the start in MORE than 50% of the NHL????

Who wins if and when Anderson leaves as a UFA in July??? This deal is only solid for Ottawa IF they sign Anderson for a reasonable contract.

Ultimately, I don't see Anderson as an upgrade on virtually any goalie Ottawa has had in the past 4 seasons.
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