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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
 Posted - 03/09/2011 : 18:08:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Mario 66
As far as people's comments about Montreal not seeking retribution do to Chara's size I Strongly disagree. By no means do i condone such retribution but in a situation such as this it is human nature to be vindictive and opurtunistic. When you mention guys like Cammelari, Gionta Desjarhnais yes we are talking about little guys however; we are also talking about guys coming in on Chara with alot of momentum who could easily jab there stick into his skate causing him to go crashing feet first into the boards. Ankle shattering into a 1000 pieces, Torn ACL/MCL etc could easily be the consequences. When you are travelling at such speeds you do not need size to hurt someone Chara's size just a motive and picking your spot like some have argued Chara did last night. I hope this goes away and nothing more comes of it.
Mario....i'm assuming your comment is directed at me, at least partially? Let me clarify what i was saying. I was defending the Canadien's players who were on the ice, for not doing anything. I can't blame them! There's no way any of them could have done anything to Chara! Heck, Price was prob their toughest guy out there! 
As for moving forward, i didn't mean to imply nothing would come Chara's way, but i'd certainly hope that after the Bertuzzi / Moore incident, guys would be awfully careful about "sticking their stick in at high speeds....etc" as the league will def be watching for retribution. If someone does something like you suggest and it results in a serious injury for Chara, they will open themselves up to the same thing Bertuzzi has gone through and continues to go through for the past 7 years! |
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
360 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 18:16:24
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No Alex i would of said your name if I was directing the comment at you. Simply a general observation that i do for see a response in the future just at a more opurtune time similar to the islanders retaliation. Less we not forget the old saying the bigger they are the harder they fall. Again i hope nothing more comes of it but would not be surprised if someone takes a run a Chara or an unsuspecting Bruin in a future gam. Especially, a playoff game. Lets be real if the NHL is staying strong on suspensions based upon the action and not the outcome then i assure you the habs may have something planned that will fall under that ever so precious "within the rules of the game" subheading
Lemieux owns Gretzky |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 18:30:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
quote:
Originally posted by Guest7154
http://img34.imageshack.us/i/charapacioretty.jpg/
think his hand is on he head clearly?
.....Leigh, apparently Campbell didn't get involved as his son is a Bruin. Therefore it was left up to Mike Murphy to rule on this incident
Thanks for the clarification Alex. makes sense. |
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Guest9210
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Posted - 03/09/2011 : 18:40:51
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| Hey Mario, in case you havn't noticed their no one in the Montreal organization that can do a god dam thing about it.Chara would kill anyone on that team easilly. He already beat the crap out of your so called hero Laraque twice. Go ahead and bring him back for all the good it will do. |
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
360 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 18:51:15
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Hey Guest kindly learn to read prior to posting. I said nothing about Laraque even though he would beat the F*** out of chara and your oblivious if you think otherwise. If you read what i wrote the habs will use their speed and momentum to take out an unsuspecting big man not attempt to fight him. Thanks for the post though and don't forget you can pick up books to help improve your reading at your local library.
Lemieux owns Gretzky |
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 19:46:02
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air canada threatening to pull out their sponsorship if chara wasn't suspended,
He wasn't, now what do they do?
Go OILERS Go!!! |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 19:55:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9210
Hey Mario, in case you havn't noticed their no one in the Montreal organization that can do a god dam thing about it.Chara would kill anyone on that team easilly. He already beat the crap out of your so called hero Laraque twice. Go ahead and bring him back for all the good it will do.
Where'd you get that info? Just curious, i checked hockeyfights.com and could only find one link that showed a quick wrestling match between the two. It did say it was their second fight of the game, but certainly didn't see Chara "beat the crap" outta George?
Oh, and FTR, those on the site had it voted as follows....
Draw - 50.9%
Win for Laraque - 29.6%
Win for Chara - 19.6
Personally, it was so quick, i can't say anyone won. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 20:15:14
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I am relieved, and surprised, that some of my brethren here on pickuphockey can see what I am saying about this being intent to injure, and to my eyes what should be a 10 game suspension.
I am dismayed as usual at the NHL, which will continue to promote the disrespect and revenge cycle, promote goonery, and turn a blind eye to skilled players constantly being picked on to get taken out on dirty plays.
Chara better watch his knees . . . the bigger they are, the harder they fall. And he is a damn tall tree.
Don't for a second think a Montreal player is not thinking this. I certainly would never promote it, but . . . the NHL just did.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest0200
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Posted - 03/09/2011 : 20:40:59
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Amen!!!
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 20:53:59
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The only thing I feel more passionate about than my love for the Bruins is my hatred for the Habs (especially certain Hab fans),
BUT
Big Z should have been suspended at least two games for this in my opinion (maybe 3-5).
It is SO HARD to determine a player's intention in some of these borderline cases. Who the hell knows what he was thinking. Maybe it was something as simple as "I gotta stop this little weasel" (given the history between these guys, "little weasel" is probably closer to the truth than "this young chap" ). Here, even if we give Chara the benefit of the doubt (that he wasn't targetting any body part, and that he had no intent to injure), it is hard to argue that the extent of his action in this "hockey play" was not, at the very least, reckless. Now we might sometimes say to players, "play with a reckless abandon" but there is reckless and then there is OVERLY RECKLESS, the latter of which should be subject to suspension, at least a little, otherwise we are saying to hockey players "as long as you don't target a body part or intend to injure, use your body in any way you can to stop a guy and we won't suspend you, as that is a hockey play."
Such reasoning seems faulty to me and I think is at least partially due to the also faulty reasoning that suspending a player for a couple of games is a "big deal." I mean, what is a 3-5 game suspension? Frankly, in the big picture of life, with a view to words like "justice" and expressions like "Do the right thing" a suspension of a few games is a relatively minor thing. It's actually a "small deal." Team suffers in the tight playoff race standings due to loss of a key player? League loses a star and suffers in ticket sales? Player loses some money? The need to ensure that players continue to play with a healthy reckless abandon to preserve the good old spirit of hockey? None of these things, even the last one which I do value highly, really justify not suspending Chara, at least a little, for being OVERLY RECKLESS, in this LONGTIME Bruin fan's opinion anyway. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 01:45:50
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the problem with this hit are the facts...
fact 1: The penalty is interference or Roughing (as ridiculous as it sounds)
Fact 2: the penalty for Interference is 2:00
Fact 3: noone can say what Chara's intent was.
This is how the NHL has to look at it.
The reality i believe is:
Chara had gone after Pacioretty at least 3 times before, including two handed slash's behind the legs and coming into a fight as the third man in.
He obviously wanted to hit pacioretty hard. Did he want to end his career? i really didn't think so, but he wanted to hurt him not injury maybe but he didn't want to miss a chance to hit a guy he doesn't like hard! and for that he had to be suspended!
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 04:52:05
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Nicely said, Andyhack. You restore my faith in hockey fans, saying all that as a longtime Bruin fan. We need more guys like you.
It was an extremely reckless action. Whether you think a professional hockey player - one of the top players, in fact - is not aware of where the stanchion is at the end of the bench right in front of him, and is not aware that Pacioretty was the player he was going to hit, and not aware that Pacioretty going at that speed being hit just enough would cause him to hit that solid object at nearly full speed; or, if you are like me, you realise that he would have known full well who he was hitting, and where he was hitting him into (he timed it, for goodness sakes) - it doesn't matter.
CHARA IS CULPABLE FOR HIS ACTIONS. full stop.
People have to take responsibility, and it is as much a fault of society, hockey culture, and how we think about things.
I have heard too many comments since the hit about the fact (usually from long time hockey fans who also play semi-competetive hockey) that it was "just an unfortunate incident". It was "unlucky". Chara is not a "dirty player".
Let me make one thing clear from my pulpit:
If Chara just made a dirty hit . . . he IS A DIRTY PLAYER.
And Andy,
I do think the bigger suspensions would work. You wouldn't be getting stupid soundbytes like what I read some Leafs commented this morning in the Toronto Sun on the incident, or the Leafs coach. You would be getting shocked silence mostly, every player trying to make every other dirty player feel better with their limited vocabularies, but . . . they would suddenly sit back and think about. They would think about the money they could lose by making a stupid error in judgement. If it happened two, three times that a player was actually given a serious suspension . . . those "utter disrespect plays" would stop happening.
I sincerely have a very bad feeling about this one guys, in a Naslund Bertuzzi way - ie, I think this will snowball into a something ugly. And for that, the NHL is 100% at fault.
How much does anyone want to bet that in the last 16 games of the season, there won't be another headshot or cheapshot that ends someone's career?
I can almost guarantee it at this point.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 05:09:09
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Does anyone else feel that the NHL is really sending mixed messages on the whole head hit situation.
I, as a fan, am really confused as to what makes a hit that is illegal and what is legal. If I am confused the I have to imagine the players are also.
I mean no suspension on the Steckle head hit on Crosby, obvious head contact with Chara on Pacioretty, throw any other example you want. Then you have the Gillies hit with no head contact, the Tom kostopoulos on Brad Stuart, a which didn't meet the blind side hit criteria but made contact with the head so suspension was called.
The NHL has no consistency with there discipline with the head hit rule. Why is the NHLPA not stepping up here? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 07:30:52
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I still don't see this as a head shot. Even the picture to me shows Chara's glove in Paciorretty's face. His glove is not on the back of Paciorretty's head pushing into the stanchion, is it??
I also love the way people are vilifying Chara. We are not talking about just another big guy. This is the biggest and arguable most physical guy in the NHL ever. History. Never before Chara has there been a player as big and physically impactful. How does this guy play in the NHL for 13 years and not have a single suspendable offense?? Is that just fluke?? If this guys wanted to, he could hurt a player on every check he throws.
Was Chara intending to throw a huge check??? Absolutely. If this happens on the other side of the ice we are not even talking about this. Just out of curiosity, did anyone else see off the record yesterday?? There was at least 6 other situations in the past 8ish years where a player was injured by being hit into the stanchion Do you know how many suspensions resulted from those hits???
Zero.
I am fine with the no suspension but I also would have been fine with a couple of games. This nonsense about 10-15 games is ludicrous. Anyone watch the TSN panel last night?? It's funny how Joe Q Fan is calling for all these huge suspensions and when current and former players, GM's, coach, etc are asked there is not one person who suggested more than few games at the max.
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Guest0119
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 09:03:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I still don't see this as a head shot. Even the picture to me shows Chara's glove in Paciorretty's face. His glove is not on the back of Paciorretty's head pushing into the stanchion, is it??
I also love the way people are vilifying Chara. We are not talking about just another big guy. This is the biggest and arguable most physical guy in the NHL ever. History. Never before Chara has there been a player as big and physically impactful. How does this guy play in the NHL for 13 years and not have a single suspendable offense?? Is that just fluke?? If this guys wanted to, he could hurt a player on every check he throws.
Was Chara intending to throw a huge check??? Absolutely. If this happens on the other side of the ice we are not even talking about this. Just out of curiosity, did anyone else see off the record yesterday?? There was at least 6 other situations in the past 8ish years where a player was injured by being hit into the stanchion Do you know how many suspensions resulted from those hits???
Zero.
I am fine with the no suspension but I also would have been fine with a couple of games. This nonsense about 10-15 games is ludicrous. Anyone watch the TSN panel last night?? It's funny how Joe Q Fan is calling for all these huge suspensions and when current and former players, GM's, coach, etc are asked there is not one person who suggested more than few games at the max.
Chara is not the most physical guy in NHL history, that remark is ludicrous. And his size has very little to do with this hit, IMHO - it is all about when and where he makes the hit, on a player going full speed. As one can see, he doesn't have to really lay into him. Why?
Because Pacioretty does not expect to get hit . . . because he is skating past Chara to the puck, 15 feet ahead of him. That Chara chooses to make an illegal play is an infraction that is, and was, penalised. To make an illegal play that was clearly dangerous, at best reckless (at worst malicious), and caused grievous bodily harm should AUTOMATICALLY mean suspension - and a heavy one, at that.
ILLEGAL PLAY. ILLEGAL PLAY. ILLEGAL PLAY.
RESULTS IN VERY, VERY SERIOUS INJURY.
Not sure how much more clear to make that, but ., . . it seems some ludicrou people here just. do. not. get. it.
Players MUST be made accountable for their actions, and when will the learning start for NHLers? Yeah, sure, they all parrot their sympathy for Chara, sure . . . they are all just as unaccountable for their actions as he is. And they will all continue to NOT GET IT until they either receive a serious injury themselves, or worse, someone gets killed.
Who knows, it might take more than one death, the NHL and the culture it has really is that stubborn and short-sighted.
I don't think it's funny at all Beans, that grown men with supposed brains can make anything resembling analysis of this ILLEGAL HIT and say that it's not Chara's fault, or that it was unlucky, or that the fault lies in the glass, Chara's size, the boards, the speed, the equipment . . . heck, let's just blame it on the puck, for not being close enough to Pacioretty to make this a legal hit.
What garbage.
Just because a TSN panel promotes serious injury and death with zero culpability, doesn't mean it is right to.
Shame on TSN. Shame on any of you who don't make players answer for their OWN ACTIONS.
Sorry for the rant again guys, but this has really gotten under my skin. When will hockey society grow up?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 10:01:57
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Couple of things:
1) The point behind Chara's size and physicality has zero to do with this hit. What it has to do with is in the measure of discipline. Agree or disagree, that was my point. I never said this hit was impacted in any way by Chara's size.
2) Let me give you another example. Kurtis Foster is skating against an opponent towards an iced puck. Torrey Mitchell runs him into the boards (when no one had the puck) and it resulted in a broken leg and Foster missing over a year of hockey.
ILLEGAL PLAY. ILLEGAL PLAY. ILLEGAL PLAY.
RESULTS IN VERY, VERY SERIOUS INJURY.
3) Let me give you another example. Brian Berard is skating towards Marian Hossa as Hossa begins to take a slapshot. The follow-through of the shot strikes Berard in the eye and he loses much of his sight in indirectly results in the end of his playing career.
ILLEGAL PLAY. ILLEGAL PLAY. ILLEGAL PLAY.
RESULTS IN VERY, VERY SERIOUS INJURY.
Finally, just because someone disagree's with your opinion does not make the opinion ludicrous. It appears that my point my garbage is being misinterpreted. I never condoned Chara's actions. I said very clearly that I would have been fine with a suspension. It absolutely was dangerous and reckless and it could have been avoided. However, there is nothing against the rules and presedent has been established regarding hits into the stanchion. You want to argue something, argue the rule that does not exist, because that is really the point at hand. Unless you are saying this hit is perfectly fine if Pacioretty has the puck??? IF you are saying this hit is unacceptable regardless of the puck being there or not, then the argument is the lack of the rule. Suspending Chara does not change the fact that players can hit other players into that area of the ice does it?? It just says do it but don't hurt anyone. Isn't that the ultimate problem in the first place??? That being the message the NHL is sending. |
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Guest6201
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seaward
Top Prospect
Canada
1 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 10:33:11
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| Really if it had happened one foot pass where it did it would have just been another two minute penalty nothing more just like the Moore incindent if he was not such a gutless player he would have turned around to Todd and dropped his gloves we would not be talking about it today . fell sorry for the guy but i think the major problem happened when everyone piled on top of them just my opinion |
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
360 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 10:47:43
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I jokingly made a point last night that intially when i was watching the game and saw the impact i thought it was another Don Cherry rockem sockem moment like many of the other stanchion hits over the yrs. Then as a result of the outcome and the reality that Patcioretty may never play again i thought some sort of suspension maybe in order.
Yes, beans i did see the responces from coaches and players that either said it was a hockey play or as we both mentioned an unfortunate play that if it where to occur on the opposite side of the ice we would not be talking about. I had mentioned to Alex last night that the Bertuzzi & Macsorley's incidents where special cases because our legal system got involved. Low and behold i have read today that montreal police are now investigating the hit so Chara could be in dangerous waters outside of the league.
I see how people want to make a statement but as beans indictated when a guy has played for 13yrs without a suspension how do you throw the book at him his first time? especially considering the league is reknowned for giving everyone a free pass. I really believe the league should start to take a stand on the result of the play as oppose to the act itself. Yes, i expect people to argue otherwise but the nhl's current ruling system of an act in the confines of the game / hockey play is clearly being abused and the deterence and respect is not there. As of next season if your actions result in a guy laying lifeless, his leg shattering on a sneaky jab of the skates or his brain left up in the third row then the league should consider suspending a player for a portion of the time the injured player misses or a third of their paychecks for that season. Ya you can argue what good is it to suspend a guy 20 games or take 2 million dollars away from a guy like Chara after the incident but our convicts do not stand trial til about 2 yrs after they commit their offense so whats the difference in taking some time and making the right call as oppose to responding right away and telling your players they can do as they please without any real consequence especially, if you are a star in the game.
Beans what i also saw the last couple of nights and really the only thing that matters is while every other coach and players saw the play the way we do. Everyone within the Montreal organization sees it the way Slozo does and at the end of the day the decision is up to them on how they go about taking care of Chara or another bruin. By no means do i condone anything that may happen but if the habs see it is a deliberate attempt to injure then what any of us fans or the league has to say means sweet f*** all.
Lemieux owns Gretzky |
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TheRC
Rookie
105 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 11:02:59
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Maybe Chara should have been suspended a game or two. Maybe not. It wasn't a clean hit, but neither are a half dozen others *each and every game* that only result in minor penalties. The location made the all the difference. Watching the clip there is no way you can say that Chara had any intent to smash poor Pacioretty off the glass. The two were in a race, and Chara was trying to regain position. He clearly interfered with him to do so, and the location on the ice turned it in to a disaster, but that does NOT equal intent to injure.
I play BS shinny hockey, where nobody really goes flat out, and only the lightest hits are acceptable, and still I've seen people get wiped out by the breaks in the glass. It happens.
The really scary thing about this situation is that the Montreal police are getting involved. First things first, I'll say it: the people and police in Montreal would not give a s*** if it were a Bruin who had have been injured on the exact same play. Don't tell me otherwise. Second, without a clear and pre-meditated intent to cause a severe injury - like, say, the Bertuzzi case - we set a very dangerous precident. Chara was playing the game, and made what happened to be a very stupid decision in the heat of the moment. He didn't skate up behind Pacioretty while the guy was on a line change and try to break his neck. Everybody who steps on the ice to play a game of hockey has to know it is a dangerous game, especially those who play at a professional level. Things will happen in a hockey game that are simply illegal on the street, but because everybody involved gives consent, we don't charge two thirds of the players after each and every game. Should we start arresting everybody who injured another player on a dirty hit? What about injuries sustained on a clean hit? That's still assault, isn't it? What about when guys fight? Lock 'em up? Please.
"If at first you don't succeed, you fail" |
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Guest4178
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Posted - 03/10/2011 : 11:14:32
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Very well stated RC!
Interestingly, and predictably, hockey fans have a wide range of opinions on the hit, and the appropriate punishment. On this site alone, the suggested punishment ranges from 2 minutes for interference (instead of the 5 minutes + game misconduct given on the ice) to 10 games or more for a suspension.
From a knee-jerk (and perhaps hometown emotional perspective), it is not overly surprising to hear RC's comments about the police getting involved. (Is this really true?)
I agree with Beans' assessment best. One to two games would have been the right call, but I'm not shocked or disappointed with the NHL decision to not suspend Chara.
One thing for certain. The NHL will never appease fans with how they dole out discipline, because it's an impossible task.
In almost every case of an on-ice offense, you have a wide spectrum of opinion on the suggested punishment, so while I have many criticisms of the NHL myself, they have an impossible job to do, at least from the perspective of making decision where everyone agrees on the final punishment. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 11:26:16
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quote:
Originally posted by seaward
Really if it had happened one foot pass where it did it would have just been another two minute penalty nothing more just like the Moore incindent if he was not such a gutless player he would have turned around to Todd and dropped his gloves we would not be talking about it today . fell sorry for the guy but i think the major problem happened when everyone piled on top of them just my opinion
seaward (and others), please, let's not start the Bertuzzi discussion again. AND, keep in mind, Moore didn't owe Bertuzzi or the Canucks anything at that point ESPECIALLY seeing as he'd already "answered the call" earlier in the game when challenged to a fight! Was it because he more or less won this fight that Bert / the Canucks decided he needed to answer again? Regardless, let's just let that be......
The more i see this and think about it (the Chara hit), the more i see a reckless play that the player (Chara) should be held responsible for. The part i agree with Beans is that i'd be okay with a 3-5 game suspension, but to make it longer means you'd need proof of intent. That, is impossible without Chara coming out and admitting as much! Personally, i think that's part of the reason why they ruled as they did. If this were a blatant cross check from behind, or a Dale Hunter like "mugging" of Pierre Turgeon and it resulted in such a devastating blow, then the suspension surely would be huge! At least i'd hope?
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 11:36:54
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| I kind of wonder if the police are getting involved only because apparently they recieved a lot of calls from concerned people over this incident? Are they just going to take a "token look" to appease these people or are they really seriously going to try to go after Chara? I'm guessing the former..... |
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 13:49:25
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Seems like a lot of groups think they know the best way to police the league. The NHL, NHLPA, the fans, the police, the media, the players themselves. Now Air Canada steps in and promises to hit where it hurts!
Freakin' awesome! Enough pissing around with peoples livelihoods and lives!
I can see Bettman, Campbell, and the owners of each of the Canadian teams spitting out their coffees when they got this memo.
"Jesus, we actually gotta do something about this now."
"How far south does VIA Rail travel?"
"This crap never happens in Phoenix."
"Why couldn't it be Trevor Gillies again?"
"How many games should we give this Stanchion guy?"
"F*** 'em! I say we re-name it Domi Place!"
On a serious note, in today's Toronto Sun, both Pacioretti and Carey Price seemed pretty steamed about the incident, and both indicated a belief that there was intent. Retribution is definitely not out of the question.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2012. |
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Guest4178
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Posted - 03/10/2011 : 14:31:05
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Very funny stuff Oilman!
On the serious side, we will find out if there is any on-ice retribution in two weeks (March 24th) when the two teams meet each other in Boston.
I'm guessing that cooler heads will prevail. This will be a big game in the standings for Montreal (and Boston too), so there is too much on the line for Montreal to seek some form of revenge.
Players usually have a pretty good handle on what registers as a dirty play, and while Chara's hit looks bad in many ways (the outcome definitely is), I don't think it merits an all-out war, where Montreal players seek to inflict harm on Chara or his teammates. As this game draws closer, there will be a lot of hype (and discussion) about what will happen though, and I'm sure a lot of hockey fans have already circled this date in their calendar. |
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 15:07:52
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Price is quoted as saying, "I'm just glad Patchy's not dead."
He didn't say, "Happy he's gonna be OK.".
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2012. |
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Dan
Top Prospect
Canada
1 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 16:13:56
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This looked to me like a dangerous play that deserves a suspension. What would be wrong with suspending a player who makes a dangerous hit like this regardless of intent?
NHL players need to be held accountable for their actions, if you hurt somebody with an illegal play you should face the consequences. Maybe there would be less head shots/dangerous hits if players knew there was a good chance they would receive a substantial suspension.
I think Chara was trying to hurt Paciorretty but even if he wasn't and just made a reckless hit it shouldn't make any difference. Chara should have received a suspension to send the message that hits like this one are not acceptable.
What was the history between these two players?
I saw a clip of Chara going after Patchy right after the overtime winner in Jan. but what started this whole thing between them? |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 16:24:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan
What was the history between these two players?
I saw a clip of Chara going after Patchy right after the overtime winner in Jan. but what started this whole thing between them?
Dan...welcome to the site. As far as the history goes, i'm not sure of it all, but if you watch that clip again, Patchy kinda gives Z a light shove (very light when you consider the size of Z) and Z comes back at him then...... Not much, but also not really necessary at all. |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 16:24:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7
the problem with this hit are the facts...
fact 1: The penalty is interference or Roughing (as ridiculous as it sounds)
Fact 2: the penalty for Interference is 2:00
Fact 3: noone can say what Chara's intent was.
This is how the NHL has to look at it.
The reality i believe is:
Chara had gone after Pacioretty at least 3 times before, including two handed slash's behind the legs and coming into a fight as the third man in.
He obviously wanted to hit pacioretty hard. Did he want to end his career? i really didn't think so, but he wanted to hurt him not injury maybe but he didn't want to miss a chance to hit a guy he doesn't like hard! and for that he had to be suspended!
I agree Pasty! |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 16:36:26
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
......Let me make one thing clear from my pulpit: If Chara just made a dirty hit . . . he IS A DIRTY PLAYER....
That is rediculous Slozo! A man's make-up is not the sum on one act. A person who has told a lie is not necessarily a liar. A person's personality and fibre of their being is not defined through one action - it takes time and repetition before the actions become traits. At the end of our time we can only hope that our good fibres outweigh the bad ones...hopefully significantly (you can buy my self-help cd at amazon)
By your definition every player in the NHL is dirty. Geesh! |
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 17:04:20
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Yeah. Everybody's allowed one.
Really?
Yes, son. Just pick your battles.
Cool! Thanks, Daddy!
You are welcome, son. Sorry I named you Zdeno.
That is one thing I cannot forgive.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2012. |
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Utemin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
451 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 17:30:11
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This is clean there is almost no way to say this is dirty (unless you call all interferences dirty plays). Hope Pacioretty can return soon.(actually He deserved it)
Don't hate me because i'm Beautiful |
Edited by - Utemin on 03/10/2011 17:32:13 |
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 17:44:14
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Interference.
Begging your pardon, sir. Don't mean to interfere, however, HATCHA!!! Sorry if I interfered with the connections between your brain and your spinal column. No offense intended.
Oh, the puck. Yeah. Will get back to that later. Had other things on my mind at the time. Sorry old chap. These things happen. So fast. So fast.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2012. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 17:49:45
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Perplexed I am with OilinOntario. Perplex and intrigued indeed!!
Alex, I read the Puckdaddy article and it is worth the time. I do enjoy that type of journalism that is not biased one way or the other but will do a good job of measuring both sides of the issue. What was the most interesting perspective (and not saying I agree with it) was Mark Spector's quote that stated along the lines of Paciorretty was also aware of where he was on the ice and he persued the puck knowing the hit was coming. He likened it to a defender turning his back to the hit he knows is coming against the boards.
Again, not saying I agree with it, but it is a perspective that has not been discussed. If Chara needs to know where he is on the ice, so does Paciorretty, does he not??? |
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 17:53:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Again, not saying I agree with it, but it is a perspective that has not been discussed. If Chara needs to know where he is on the ice, so does Paciorretty, does he not???
Paciorretty knows where he is, but he's chasing the puck, which he doesn't have, thus he's an unsuspecting player who doesn't bare responsibility for being vulnerable
Go OILERS Go!!! |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 17:56:45
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quote:
Originally posted by sahis34
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Again, not saying I agree with it, but it is a perspective that has not been discussed. If Chara needs to know where he is on the ice, so does Paciorretty, does he not???
Paciorretty knows where he is, but he's chasing the puck, which he doesn't have, thus he's an unsuspecting player who doesn't bare responsibility for being vulnerable
Go OILERS Go!!!
Completely disagree. If one player has the responsibility of knowing where they are at all times than all players have the responsibilitiy. If not, any player who sees a hit coming could turn their back and draw a penalty.
Nope, doesn't work like that in my opinion. Just like Messier used to say, 'Your head needs to be on a swival at all times. Every player needs to know three things when they go over the boards: The score, the time left in the period, and who the other players are on the ice from both teams."
I completely agree. You can't blame Chara for knowing where he is without making the same statement about Paciorretty knowing where he is as well. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 18:10:49
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Beans, i agree with you that it's not an "angle" that's been discussed, but here's where i have a problem with that theory, at least in this instance. This hit was late. There's really no debating that as far as i'm concerned. If i'm Pacioretty, i have to assume that Chara's not going to hit me when the puck is already at HIS blueline and i've released it a couple steps ago. THAT is where i have a prob with it.
As i've stated, i don't for a second believe that Z wanted to obliterate him as bad as he did, BUT, i do believe he knew where he was and wanted to hit him, possibly even into the "turnbuckle" (just not head first). Let's face it, any time a guy hits another guy, they are not just trying to knock him off the puck or simply take him out of the play. Otherwise, there'd be no need to hit as hard as some do! I don't believe anyone, ok, very few, are trying to concuss another guy, or break a guys neck or anything, but i do believe they try to inflict "some" pain, so as to make the guy think twice next time!
Crazy thing is, i was looking on youtube for a video of Nieuwendyk getting smoked into a "turnbuckle" head first (can't remember but i thought it was Dale Hunter, but maybe someone else?) in what was a crushing blow. I couldn't find it. But, while searching around, i had a look at some of the vids of "biggest hits ever" and "dirtiest hits", etc. Some of those, which were totally legal (see: Scott Stevens) back then, would be seen in a completely different light nowadays! It took this for me to realize just how much has changed, yet there's still so many head injuries! If you find the time, have a look back at some of those videos! The hitting was really ferocious! |
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 18:15:35
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All kidding aside Beans. I know you don't honestly believe that Patchy could have in any way expected that hit. Every player on the ice knows that danger zone exists. How long has Chara been a physical threat in the NHL? And a kid like Patchy has to watch himself, but big Z can mangle the dude, and step back and say, "Wha Happened?"
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2012. |
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Topic |
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Chara "headshot" to Paciorretty.... 
