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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
 Posted - 04/07/2011 : 22:54:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest7326
I remember the 70's, when hungry lions and speeding cars were used as a deterrent to cheapshots. Bring back those days, and we wouldn't need helmets, visors, video replay, debates, Colin Campbell, goons, salary caps, Beans, The Duke, stanchions, concussions, playoffs, Slozo, Nucks fans, OILINONTARIO, Peter Forsberg, Bettman, Fat Elvis, Todd Bertuzzi, MINNESOTA, SAN JOSE, WHAT ELSE DO I HAVE TO SAY?
Whew....looks like i'd still be needed!  |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2011 : 22:56:27
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quote:
Originally posted by OILINONTARIO
Alright. Looked at it plenty. When the hit occurs, Raffi's arm from shoulder to elbow is at about a 10 degree angle. As he follows through, however, it increases to close to 45 degrees, with the elbow raising at Eberle's head level. Seems to indicate intent. Just glad Eberle is OK.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2012.
How in the world are you measuring this? And even if it's accurate, 10 degrees would basically be at his side, def not sticking out whatsoever. And, when it comes to the "follow through", tell me this.....have you ever skated and hit a guy? Do you not think maybe his "follow through" was an attempt to stay on his own feet, as in, for balance?
Again, i'm not saying the hit was totally legal by any means, but i still think it was more interference, than elbowing! |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2011 : 12:12:29
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Direct contact to the head is relevant. The point of the body that made contact first or last isn't revelvant. I can appreciate defending hockey plays and/or physical play but this is one thing. That is, Torres tried to time a hit and missed. Eberle did not have the puck.
My final point on this is that Torres and his comments are a great example of what's wrong with the NHL today. Rather than take his lumps and admit the play was at the least borderline, he argues his role in the NHL and that if he didn't play like that he wouldn't have a job.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2011 : 13:58:30
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Worth a read?? Are you kidding?? Dude, for a logical guy I am shocked that you would say 'some bias,' as that was one of the most biased articles I have ever read!!
People just don't get it. Forget the past. Hit someone in the head and find out what happens.
If you would like to see an actual local story with 'some bias' please take a look at this from the Calgary Herald as reported by Jim Matheson from the Edmonton Journal. This should be heavily biased towards the Oilers, right??
Take the time to read the comments by Brent Sutter.
This is slightly biased reporting. The report from the Province was something I would expect out of Toronto or Montreal. What a joke.
http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/Eberle+head+feels+fine+after+Torres/4573512/story.html?cid=megadrop_story |
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2011 : 14:32:15
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The best part of the first article was the first comment after it, where a user stated that the same people who were crying for an end to the headshots(reporters and media), are the first ones to question any suspension from it., how true.
I wonder how the perception would change if it were a Sedin caught with the same hit, same end result. Would anyone still think 4 for a hit on them would be an issue? I think not, I think those same people who question the suspension would be asking for more if that were the case.
I like the suspension, and I think Torres is one of those guys, who although never suspended, skirted the edges of respect and taking advantage of players in vulnerable positions. I'd like to think this played in to the length of the suspension and will hopefully send a fairly clear message to some of those other 3rd and 4th liners who play with that same edge.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2011 : 16:26:32
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I just knew this would stir the pot!!
I wasn't referring so much to the hit in general, which in today's NHL is suspendable, as much as i was to the suspension itself and the fact that imo, he had some interesting comments such as.....
"Even staid TSN broadcaster Bob McKenzie expressed some shock on TEAM 1040 that the NHL would veer so wildly away from its own inconsistent precedents to seriously impact a first-round playoff series.
And for what?
Torres is not a repeat offender. He did not leave his feet or stick out his elbow. He did not injure a player. Jordan Eberle saw him coming and had time to raise his right arm to protect himself. That alone means you can argue the hit was not blindside."
Sure, he talks about the hit, but he doesn't say it was clean or legal, just that it wasn't blindside or a blatant elbow! He simply reports what Torres felt about it and implies that even if it was illegal, the penalty seems stiff. How can anyone here argue that when no one that i recall, predicted the suspension to be as long as it is???
Further, he compares it to the hits by Heatley and Marchand:
But based on the two-game suspensions both Dany Heatley and Brad Marchand recently got for more predatory head shots, where they blatantly stuck out their elbows before contact, you have to ask yourself, just who is out of touch here?
Based on what we’ve seen most of the year, the Torres head shot was worth two games.
The best guess around the NHL was that Torres got two playoff games because the Canucks had already clinched the Presidents’ Trophy and their two last games were meaningless. Tell that to the fans who paid hundreds to see them.
Finally, he goes to discuss:
1. The possibility that the league came down harder because the final two Canucks games are more or less meaningless to them.
2. How this punishes the Canucks moreso than it does Torres because he won't be paid in the playoffs anyway (a point which i disagree with)
3. How it's possible (*warning* conspiracy theory coming) that the league came down harder on them (Canucks) in that
"The Torres decision is another subjective one that opens the NHL up to all sorts of questions.
For example, if the NHL was irked at the way the Canucks have juggled their injuries and salary cap all year, would they possibly take it out on them now, when given this opportunity? You have to believe they wouldn’t. But biases have been exposed in the past.
He even brings up the reference Mike Gillis made (obviously sticking up for his player) to the Pacioretty hit and comments how it was possibly a "sly reference to the NHL’s decision not to suspend Zdeno Chara for his harsh collision with Max Pacioretty."
So, this "logical" guy doesn't really see as much bias as you. Sure, he's a Vancouver writer, and i did say there was some bias, but i see a whole lot more than just a guy writing about how the Canucks got burned or that the hit was legal.
See it as you will. 
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2011 : 18:40:05
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All rhetoric aside, as a guy watching from the sidelines (finally had a second to see this), it was a suspendable hit, and the NHL probably got it just about right.
Lucky for Eberle that it was the middle of the arm, and not the shoulder or elbow . . . would have been laid out and concussed then.
It was a predatory hit, on a guy who was not going to reach the puck. Without it being a headshot, it's interference; but I think it's the right call to say it is what it is, and give Torres and the league a strong message: predatory hits on players that are only meant to hurt/take out a guy, are unacceptable.
It is harsh though, for a "first time" offender (like calling Chara a first time offender, as if actual suspension and offence are equal). This is the second suspension where I can actually say that . . . it's a good sign.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2011 : 12:25:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
quote:
Originally posted by OILINONTARIO
Alright. Looked at it plenty. When the hit occurs, Raffi's arm from shoulder to elbow is at about a 10 degree angle. As he follows through, however, it increases to close to 45 degrees, with the elbow raising at Eberle's head level. Seems to indicate intent. Just glad Eberle is OK.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2012.
How in the world are you measuring this? And even if it's accurate, 10 degrees would basically be at his side, def not sticking out whatsoever. And, when it comes to the "follow through", tell me this.....have you ever skated and hit a guy? Do you not think maybe his "follow through" was an attempt to stay on his own feet, as in, for balance?
Again, i'm not saying the hit was totally legal by any means, but i still think it was more interference, than elbowing!
Yeah. You know, I looked again, and you are right. I was going to say, "you were right, but still....", and then I decided to reread the whole thread, beginning with your original post, and pretty much agreed with you throughout. So, enough said then.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2012. |
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Torres on Eberle 
