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semin-rules
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1915 Posts |
 Posted - 05/13/2011 : 08:36:02
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The rookie who came in third in rookies with 52 points last year has been locked up for another 5 years with the Islanders. No details have been disclosed yet about the deal.
Great signing by the Islanders
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2011 : 08:43:56
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| No kidding! And to think, Vancouver traded him in a deal for a 4.2 million dollar dman who's currently not able to crack their lineup, and even worse, Florida then proceeded to place him on waivers??? WTF? |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2011 : 09:45:56
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hm, seems we posted the same topic at the same time... admin, please delete my other posting on this topic.
In fairness to VAN, they certainly thought that they were getting a top-4, or even top-2 dman when they made that trade - Ballard has not worked out here, and I think he's as sure as gone in the summer. The real kicker is FLA letting him go for nothing. But then in fairness to FLA, Vancouver fans know how hot/cold Grabner can be, and how inconsistent he was - its why he wasn't able to crack the lineup in VAN.
As I said in my other thread, reports are that this deal is 5yr/15M, so 3M a year. I'm a little surprised by the length of the deal, and the 3M per year. Grabner had a great second half of the season last year, and that is it - in his 3 year EL deal he could not crack a professional lineup for the first 2.5 years, and then lit it up for 4 months. If I'm a GM, I want to make sure that that 4 months wasn't an anomaly, and sign him to a shorter deal (perhaps 2yr/5.5M), to see if he can do it again, and then commit to a longer deal. If Grabner goes back to the Vancouver-Grabner, 3M is going to seem like an awful lot of money... |
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ginks40
Top Prospect
Canada
20 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2011 : 12:06:27
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From what I've read the deal starts at $1mil next season and then incrementally increases by $1mil each season throughout the contract.
This is one of those high risk-high reward kind of signings.
On a slightly unrelated note, the Islanders have had a lot of luck over the past few seasons taking chances on inconsistent/unwanted players from other teams - Grabner, Moulson, Parenteau - that's 85 goals last season combined. Not bad for a bunch of players nobody else wanted and relatively cheap. |
Edited by - ginks40 on 05/13/2011 12:12:31 |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2011 : 12:15:09
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nuxfan....i see your point, and i guess every contract is somewhat of a gamble but i think locking up Grabner at that cap hit is good. Apparently he gets 1m next year, 2m the next, then 3, 4 and finally 5 mil in the last year! If he doesn't pan out, 5 mil in that last year is gonna look real gross but at a cap hit of 3, not so bad.
The problem with him here in Van was that he never really got much of a shot. He played mostly 3rd line and just couldn't crack the top 2 for any extended length. Of course, early on in his call up to replace Daniel (who got injured) last year, he didn't help himself by injuring his ankle while playing soccer in the dressing room with some of his team mates! That, was an excellent opportunity for him to get a long look here, and it was gone!
On Long Island, he's getting ice time! That to me is the big difference. He had a pretty tough lineup to crack here and couldn't do it but he's now playing alongside some skilled young guys in NY and having some success.
Florida is still the surprising one! He didn't even play a game there after they decided he wasn't gonna make the openning day team! They were planning on sending him down to the minors when he got picked up, not surprisingly!
He's got the tools to be a really good player. He won the fastest skater at the superskills competition, he's got great hands, evident with his 30+ goal season, he had 6 shorties, and he's young, but not a kid (mid 20's). The only knock i see aside from the inconsistency you pointed out, would be that he appears to be a sniper and if that dries up, there's where the problems lie. He doesn't get a lot of assists, kinda along the lines of Kessel, one of those guys that get referred to as "Cy Young" types!
As far as Ballard here, i wouldn't rule him out of Van just yet. First, his salary could make him tough to trade, though if they decide they really want rid of him, it might just mean they get little in return or would have to take some salary back? Secondly, it could very well depend on who comes back as there's talk right now that the Canucks won't be able to sign both Bieksa and Ehrhoff?
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2011 : 14:11:19
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quote:
As far as Ballard here, i wouldn't rule him out of Van just yet. First, his salary could make him tough to trade, though if they decide they really want rid of him, it might just mean they get little in return or would have to take some salary back? Secondly, it could very well depend on who comes back as there's talk right now that the Canucks won't be able to sign both Bieksa and Ehrhoff?
If Ballard cannot crack the top-4 in VAN, or they don't feel that he can, then he's gone. 4.25 is too much to pay for a 5-6 dman in the NHL. The fact that he was not even playing for the final 2 games vs NSH (in favour of Alberts and Rome) says a lot to me about how much faith management has in his abilities.
I think that trading him would be a precursor to trying to sign both Bieksa and Ehrhoff. Going into next season with a top-4 of Hamhuis/Edler/Bieksa/Ehrhoff and top it off with a combination of Rome/Alberts/Tanev, would give VAN a very good blueline IMO. They'd need Ballard's 4.25 to make it happen.
Even if they get very little in return, I think it will happen. Ballard is not washed up, he just didn't thrive in VAN this season, he'd command some value back. But if it means being able to resign Bieksa AND Ehrhoff, I think VAN would move Ballard for a bag of pucks.
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Apparently he gets 1m next year, 2m the next, then 3, 4 and finally 5 mil in the last year! If he doesn't pan out, 5 mil in that last year is gonna look real gross but at a cap hit of 3, not so bad.
I'm not sure how that makes it better honestly - if anything, it makes him more difficult to move as the contract goes on, in the event that he does not do as well. It sounds more like a financial move to defer actual costs, or another crazy-Wang contract.
Regardless, a cap hit of 3M for 5 years for a player that has produced consistently for about 4 months in the last 3 years is quite the gamble. NYI has the cap space to burn, so its less of an issue for them should things go wrong. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2011 : 14:34:19
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I agree they will "try" to get rid of Ballard, i'm just pretty sure that the return will be either:
a.) VERY little
or b.) someone else's salary dump.
Going to be tough to get value for him without taking a significant salary back. If Gillis can get draft picks for him, he's a genius!!! |
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2011 : 14:43:32
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Suffering Succotash!!!
This starts out as thread on Grabner and the Islanders and ends up being a Canucklehead thread!!!
Who do you guys(Alex and Nuxfan), think you are....Leaf fans!!!
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2011 : 16:44:04
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Grabner is ex-Canuck, so they're related, sort of....in my defense, I did bring it back to Grabner, eventually.
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Guest4626
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Posted - 05/16/2011 : 23:13:08
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| Awesome deal For Grabs So glad he isnt in Choke vill Canuck Land.. I would take Grabs over most if knot all of the Vancouver chocker's.. How they let him Get away with out a real chance to Play.. Thank god he was on a Good farm team where he Showed his potential .. With his stick work and Speed...Great summer for Grabs New Baby, New Contract... |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 04:38:53
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Why is everyone are some people saying what an amazing deal it is when . . . you sign an uproven rookie to a 5 year deal that is back heavy? Did I miss something here?
Really seems like another bad deal by the Islanders, where they give a young promising player too long a contract. I mean, did they not learn from Yashin? DiPietro? It's not quite in that range obviously, but still . . . can you see any other GM giving more than a three year deal to a rookie who, as mentioned, was hot for a few months?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
Edited by - n/a on 05/17/2011 04:42:03 |
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ginks40
Top Prospect
Canada
20 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 09:23:14
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Let me be clear on one thing to start with. Do I think that the Grabner signing is a risk? Absolutely.
But to declare that this signing is similar to some of their previous terrible signings (Yashin, Dipietro) is quite a stretch. Yashin was signed by Mike Milbury. Dipietro was signed by Charles Wang, Garth Snow had very little or nothing to do with that deal. Both these deals are something that Snow inherited and had to deal with.
In today's NHL, young talent at an economical price is key. There are very few of the elite teams that have had success otherwise. Obviously the Islanders have seen something they like in Grabner and feel that they are awarding him a contract both in his best interest, as well as their own.
If he continues to produce as expected, this signing will look genius. If he is a complete bust, then maybe we can start lumping Snow in with Milbury and Wang. With a back-loaded contract, it could be tough to move him if he is actually a bust. However, while paying much more out of pocket dollars, the cap hit would be a much more reasonable figure and some teams might be willing to take a chance on him. Just like the Islanders are doing right now. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 09:46:20
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I wouldn't say it is a great deal and I wouldn't say is is a bad deal. There is merit to both sides of the argument. If Grabner continues a 30+ goal pace over the contract, it is a more than fair deal. If he is better than that, it is a great deal. But Slozo's 'unproven rookie' point is also valid. Who's to say that Grabner does not tank for the Islanders a la Mark Parrish??
It's no fluke that 2 of hockey's top GM's (Nonis and Tallon) both basically gave up on this kid. I would say it's as likely that he tanks as it is for him to stay where he is or improve his performance.
Tough call. Definitely a hindsight kind of deal. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 10:20:18
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The last point that Beans makes is what makes me think this will lean more towards bust than boom, and to me, should have made it a one or two year deal, three at the absolute most.
The guys is not 19; several very good GMs have already passed on the kid and he wasn't good enough to make their lineup; and he got all the time he wanted with the Isles and they never played a meaningful game all season.
Myself, as a poolie, I am staying far away from him, as I find it likely (as in, 50% likely) he spends some time in their AHL affiliate after an unproductive stretch, and doesn't get even close to this year's numbers.
Not saying he couldn't become a regular 30 goal guy - I just find it so, so unlikely for that to happen.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 10:57:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4626
Awesome deal For Grabs So glad he isnt in Choke vill Canuck Land.. I would take Grabs over most if knot all of the Vancouver chocker's.. How they let him Get away with out a real chance to Play.. Thank god he was on a Good farm team where he Showed his potential .. With his stick work and Speed...Great summer for Grabs New Baby, New Contract...
While this could very well be the worst written post in the history of PUH, you are correct about one thing.....It's an awesome deal for Michael Grabner!
Personally, i think he's gonna work out for them provided he continues to play on one of the top two lines. Considering this signing, i have to assume that's the plan for him as far as the Isles are concerned. Then again, it IS the NYI were're talking about! |
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Grabner signs five years to Islanders 
