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FutureKesler
Rookie
Canada
122 Posts |
 Posted - 05/13/2011 : 22:07:05
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At 4.25 mil a year he's way to pricy for a 5-6 d-man. If the Nux want to keep Ehrhoff and Bieksa he's gotta go!
Ryan Kesler is a BEAST!
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2011 : 08:30:24
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| I'll say it again, that was the stupidest trade I've ever seen |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2011 : 10:43:41
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quote:
Originally posted by sahis34
I'll say it again, that was the stupidest trade I've ever seen
Really? Well, welcome to being a hockey fan. It's obvious that you must have just begun following the sport. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2011 : 10:55:45
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quote:
I'll say it again, that was the stupidest trade I've ever seen
Really? The stupidest trade EVER? Stupider than FLA trading Luongo for Bertuzzi, Allen, and Auld? Stupider than EDM trading Pronger for a big bag of nothing? I've seen a lot of stupid trades over the years, the Ballard trade does not rank with them.
VAN essentially gave up a young promising winger that was never going to make their team and a mid first round draft pick for an (at the time) very solid defenseman. Before this season, Ballard had been a top-2 dman in FLA, scoring 30-ish points a year and logging 25+ minutes per game. And he was signed to a pretty good deal at 4.25M for the next 5 years, and filled a need that became quite glaring after the loss to CHI the year before.
It was a gamble that did not pay off ultimately, and I think there is little doubt that he'll be traded in the offiseason, for anything. Further, I think someone will take him, given that he's only had one bad year (this year) in an otherwise very steady NHL career, a change of scenery might do him some good.
But its very hard to call this the "stupidest trade ever seen" |
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2011 : 13:01:04
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Ok the canucks got a useless defensman and gave up a 1st rounder, a soil 3rd line forward and a rookie of the year finalist, pretty stupid by florida to put him on waivers but thats what he is. Plus loungo has done jack s*** for the canucks so far, and lowe had to move pronger, you can't win that trade. Gillis just gave away commodities to get a goalie smashing useless D-man, at the time I knew that was a terrible trade, and it's proved to be.
Go OILERS Go!!! |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2011 : 13:37:04
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quote:
Ok the canucks got a useless defensman and gave up a 1st rounder, a soil 3rd line forward and a rookie of the year finalist
ah, how wonderful hindsight is I guess...
At the time the trade was made, the Canucks got a top-4 defenseman with solid offensive upside and a 4th line plugger, for a first round pick, a 4th line fill in with no hands, and an inconsistent offensive prospect with speed and little else. At the time, this looked like a very solid pickup for VAN and an even trade overall that addressed the needs of both teams.
The way things have turned out, the real winner of this trade was NYI, who got Grabner for nothing. The undisputed loser is FLA, who lost a very solid defenseman for Bernier and a first round draft pick.
VAN has certainly not won this trade, especially if they trade Ballard at the end of the year., but has not lost as badly as it would appear. As I said before, Grabner had blown numerous chances to make the team and had failed each time - he had no future in VAN and was never going to get the chance he did with NYI - Mason Raymond brought the same thing except with scoring talent too. Bernier was a disappointment in VAN, and his departure could not come soon enough. A 25th overall pick, hey sure, anything can happen. The important thing is, none of the pieces that VAN traded were at the cost of the team on the ice this season. And VAN got some defensive insurance - a guy that has played on and off all year, who will be easy to plug into the lineup if one of the current 6 go down in the playoffs.
And who knows, maybe Ballard's problems this year were related to his offseason injuries last year. Maybe he does stay after a long talk with Gillis about what his role should be and whether or not he wants to stay, and they let Bieksa walk instead.
We'll see what happens in the offseason. |
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Guest0087
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Posted - 05/14/2011 : 13:39:10
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quote:
Originally posted by sahis34
Ok the canucks got a useless defensman and gave up a 1st rounder, a soil 3rd line forward and a rookie of the year finalist, pretty stupid by florida to put him on waivers but thats what he is. Plus loungo has done jack s*** for the canucks so far, and lowe had to move pronger, you can't win that trade. Gillis just gave away commodities to get a goalie smashing useless D-man, at the time I knew that was a terrible trade, and it's proved to be.
Go OILERS Go!!!
Yeah ok. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2011 : 16:08:49
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| Hindsight is pretty great. At the time, the deal was still an over-payment for Ballard. I don't see how it's not. After this season, it's nearly impossible to say this is anything other than a garbage trade. Maybe not to the degree Sashis is trying to get people to believe. However, I doubt if even Gillis would say this is anything but a crap trade. |
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Guest6060
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Posted - 05/14/2011 : 19:20:33
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| Worst trade ever not even close the leafs got Tom Kurvers for the pick that took Scott Niedermayer |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2011 : 07:57:58
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The trade itself was not too bad because it got what the teams needed at the time. It's easy to look at it now and say well that was a crappy trade. In every trade you make you always take a chance.
I think the signing was the worst, they signed him to a pretty efty contract for a 4 or 5 defenseman. Because that contract will handcuff them for a while. Remember that they also signed Hamhuis the same summer. When they already had Ehroff, Edler and Bieksa.
But if they win the cup it will all be forgotten and it will be mission accomplish for the GM. The goal is to win a cup remember and last time I checked Vancouver are still in, and that's with Ballard and Raymond and without Grabner and Bernier. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2011 : 08:41:18
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I'll say this: looking at it carefully, at the time the trade was made, it was a bit of an overpayment, yes; but generally, a team that is very close to the short list of cup favourites has to overpay for any players of worth.
So yeah, it doesn't seem like a totally garbage trade.
And let's be realistic here on Grabner: getting 30 goals on the Islanders is great as a young player, but don't think a guy like that has the numbers he had on a top team like Vancouver.
Just sayin'.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2011 : 09:38:43
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Absolutely right Slozo. Grabner would have most likely been 3nd line, maybe 3rd line and maybe 2nd line PP. He would not have gotten the minutes to get 30 goals.
However, wouldn't it have been nice for the Canucks to have him in their pocket with Torres, Higgins, Glass, and Tambellini as UFA's and Lapierre and Hansen as RFA's this off season?? Not to mention how valuable that $4+ million with 4 of their top 6-7 defensemen as UFA's (Ehrhoff, Alberts, Bieska, and Salo). Now, I don't assume they will want to resign Salo, but the rest of those guys will be looking for deals between $3.5 million and $4.5 million and Alberts around $2.5ish. That's $9-$12 million, which is very close to what they have left for cap space not counting the 6 forward spots that will be open.
Hindsight is 20/20 and I get the overpay, but I still don't see this as anything but garbage at this point. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2011 : 14:52:48
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quote:
I think the signing was the worst, they signed him to a pretty efty contract for a 4 or 5 defenseman. Because that contract will handcuff them for a while. Remember that they also signed Hamhuis the same summer. When they already had Ehroff, Edler and Bieksa.
Ballard was already under contract when the Canucks acquired him, they did not sign him. At the time, 4.2M for a solid defenseman that is capable of 30-40 points a season seemed pretty good value IMO - it would not surprise me if they acquired him with the thinking that he would take the place of Bieksa. Now that he's not producing up to expectations, not so much. |
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Guest8149
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Posted - 05/15/2011 : 17:58:42
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I don't like Ballard, especially the way he treated Darryl Sittler and Roger Neilson!
Oops, sorry you're talking about Ballard the player, and not Harold, the controversial former owner of the Leafs.
Never mind! :) |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2011 : 20:58:40
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quote:
Absolutely right Slozo. Grabner would have most likely been 3nd line, maybe 3rd line and maybe 2nd line PP. He would not have gotten the minutes to get 30 goals.
Actually, Grabner had every chance to fit in everywhere. After a very good exhibition campaign in 2009, he played with VAN for 20 games or so. He got time with the Sedins, with Kesler's line, and the 3rd line. He got time on first and second PP units, and of course on the PK where he excelled with his speed. Nothing stuck, he just didn't show any consistent playing, and got pushed around a lot. VAN got all his speed + a scoring touch in Mason Raymond, which is probably why he was deemed expendable.
quote:
However, wouldn't it have been nice for the Canucks to have him in their pocket with Torres, Higgins, Glass, and Tambellini as UFA's and Lapierre and Hansen as RFA's this off season?? Not to mention how valuable that $4+ million with 4 of their top 6-7 defensemen as UFA's (Ehrhoff, Alberts, Bieska, and Salo). Now, I don't assume they will want to resign Salo, but the rest of those guys will be looking for deals between $3.5 million and $4.5 million and Alberts around $2.5ish. That's $9-$12 million, which is very close to what they have left for cap space not counting the 6 forward spots that will be open.
The player we still have in our pocket is Hodgson, who is almost certain to be playing in VAN next season, likely as a converted winger because, assuming Malhotra comes back, there is no room at centre. Torres and Tambellini are expendable and replaceable. I think they would want to hang on to Glass as he has proven durable and is pretty good as 3rd liners go, and they will likely make an offer to Higgins given that he's gelled nicely with Kesler. It would not surprise me if they tried to unload Samuelsson to make room next season.
As for the defense, it will be an interesting summer. I have to think that they'll be looking to trade Ballard to free up that money to resign both Ehrhoff and Bieksa. Or, they're going to decide that Ballard had an off year, and keep him and let Bieksa go. I don't see them losing Ehrhoff though. Salo may come back at a reduced salary - he's nearing the end of his career and probably wants to finish it in VAN. Alberts is almost certainly gone unless he plays for the same amount of money - VAN has Rome who plays the same game at a lower price, and Tanev is waiting in the wings, virtually guaranteed a top-6 spot next year on his EL deal. |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 03:45:58
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To me, the Ballard trade was exactly as Slozo said. An overpayment, yes. But one a team like VAN would have to make in order to acquire a defencemen of his caliber in their position.
Overall, I don't mind the deal.. It's not working out for VAN, but, sometimes that's how it goes.
-- Hi! Been a while.
Irvine/prez. |
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Guest8346
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Posted - 05/16/2011 : 10:30:23
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You guys are prolly the part of the same crew that thought Bieksa should have been traded last summer. Where would that have put us? Not in the third round, thats for sure.
The Ballard deal hasn't paid off ...YET!.
Wait until next season after Erhoff and Salo have moved on. Watch for Ballard to be paired with Edler. Then make your judgement. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 16:12:39
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Nuxfan...
Something i read today mentioned Ballard having a "limited no trade clause" in his contract. Not sure of the details of course but this could have an impact on the potential to trade him, if the Canucks chose to go that route. |
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 16:17:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Hindsight is pretty great. At the time, the deal was still an over-payment for Ballard. I don't see how it's not. After this season, it's nearly impossible to say this is anything other than a garbage trade. Maybe not to the degree Sashis is trying to get people to believe. However, I doubt if even Gillis would say this is anything but a crap trade.
That's what I'm saying, it was the worst trade I've ever seen at the time, admittedly I didn't expect 34 goals from grabner but I knew ballard wasn't going to be worth what he was traded for |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 17:06:00
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quote:
Originally posted by sahis34
That's what I'm saying, it was the worst trade I've ever seen at the time, admittedly I didn't expect 34 goals from grabner but I knew ballard wasn't going to be worth what he was traded for
I still don't get it? Are you saying it was the worst trade you'd ever seen "that day", as in, the day it was made? Is that what you mean by "...the worst trade i've ever seen at the time....". Surely you can't mean the worst trade EVER?
I'm still left shaking my head at your comments and hoping i'm just not undertanding them correctly?
Funny thing is, i'd be willing to bet that if he could do it over again, Gillis would! You see, his whole approach to the season was to have an abundance of capable dmen come playoff time as that's what killed the Canucks in previous seasons! |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 17:32:07
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I think Gillis knowing what he knew then would have done it. Bieksa was not much more than a #4 defensemen and Ballard was a healthy #3. However, now Bieska has played as a capable #3 and possibly #2 if needed and Ballard is off the reservation.
At the time the deal was an over pay, now it is a deal Gillis would be wise in fixing. Or, he has to pray that Ballard regains his form, and for that matter, Bieksa re-signs or regains his form for another team.
Alex, be mindful of who you are arguing with. This is the same guy who defended the 'he hit him in the neck' argument from the Thornton/Perron hit. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 18:13:43
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Yeah, you have to take sahis with a grain of salt...
Alex, you are correct - Ballard can name 7 teams to whom he is willing to be traded, if the team wants to trade him.
quote:
I think Gillis knowing what he knew then would have done it. Bieksa was not much more than a #4 defensemen and Ballard was a healthy #3. However, now Bieska has played as a capable #3 and possibly #2 if needed and Ballard is off the reservation.
I'd even go further - Bieksa has quite literally turned his career around this year. Last summer, Bieksa was coming off his second straight injury plagued and very subpar year. He was very poor in his own end, took bad penalties, and had lost all offensive capability. Last July he was as sure as gone and fans could not wait to get rid of him. I'm quite certain that the only thing that kept him here was the injury to Salo.
He has obviously proved all wrong, and has made himself a highly valuable dman again - the one that VAN thought they had signed 3 years earlier. Which creates the conundrum going into this summer. |
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 18:30:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
quote:
Originally posted by sahis34
That's what I'm saying, it was the worst trade I've ever seen at the time, admittedly I didn't expect 34 goals from grabner but I knew ballard wasn't going to be worth what he was traded for
I still don't get it? Are you saying it was the worst trade you'd ever seen "that day", as in, the day it was made? Is that what you mean by "...the worst trade i've ever seen at the time....". Surely you can't mean the worst trade EVER?
I'm still left shaking my head at your comments and hoping i'm just not undertanding them correctly?
Funny thing is, i'd be willing to bet that if he could do it over again, Gillis would! You see, his whole approach to the season was to have an abundance of capable dmen come playoff time as that's what killed the Canucks in previous seasons!
The day that trade happened, I thought that was the most one sided trade I'd ever seen. It's post trade evaluation, right after it happened, without any hindsight. I definitely overrated bernier though. Mind you I haven't been watching hockey for 20 years, maybe 5, so the most one sided trade I've ever seen isn't a stretch. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 11:04:53
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OK, I'll bite.
quote:
The day that trade happened, I thought that was the most one sided trade I'd ever seen. It's post trade evaluation, right after it happened, without any hindsight.
I'd love to hear some details of your analysis of the parts of this trade, that led you to conclude that this was "the most one-sided trade you'd ever seen". |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 11:17:35
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
OK, I'll bite.
quote:
The day that trade happened, I thought that was the most one sided trade I'd ever seen. It's post trade evaluation, right after it happened, without any hindsight.
I'd love to hear some details of your analysis of the parts of this trade, that led you to conclude that this was "the most one-sided trade you'd ever seen".
Don't be so blind nuxfan! I mean, didn't you know that Grabner was gonna put up 30+ and be a rookie of the year candidate?
All i know is this, he wasn't gonna do that anytime soon in Vancovuer. He'd had his chances and did little with them. The Canucks needed defensive depth and that's exactly what they got. Unfortunately, to get something, you have to give something.
Sahis, where you look foolish in my mind, is that Ballard was coming off a couple of pretty decent seasons in Florida where he played a ton and did what was expected of him. So basically with your thoughts of it being such a bad trade at the time, somehow miraculously, you knew he was going to have an off season here in Vancouver!!! Amazing the powers you have swami Sahis!
Please just do me one favour? Look into your crystal ball puck and tell me if i'm ever gonna win the lottery? Cuz if not, i'll be sure to stop buying tickets!  |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 12:31:53
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quote:
Sahis, where you look foolish in my mind, is that Ballard was coming off a couple of pretty decent seasons in Florida where he played a ton and did what was expected of him
To my knowledge, Ballard has only had decent+ seasons in the NHL, until this year.
In the 5 seasons before this one, he played top-4 minutes while putting up pretty consistent point totals that average out to 30 per year. And he only missed 11 games in total over those 5 years. I'm sure Gillis saw a very steady defensive presence that is durable, can pop some points, and can play in the top-4 in VAN. Which after the previous 2 years' losses in the playoffs, was exactly what we needed.
One bad season in 6 does not a bad player make, and no doubt if we decide to trade him this summer more than one team will be willing to take him.
However, I'm curious as to why he so quickly fell out of favour with VAN management - it started pretty much at the beginning of the season when he was out of shape (from offseason surgery) and was benched for games early. It continued at times throughout the year, and now in the playoffs he hasn't played since early in the NSH series. In the games I've seen him play he has actually been pretty good - he's a good physical, reliable defender. His point total is unquestionably down, but he's also not getting the opportunities like he did with FLA. |
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 14:58:35
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Methinks some of you posters are being facetious without knowing the background to the whole scenario and foresight of our favorite debater's post, regarding the obviousness of the bad, Ballard deal.
Sahis may actually be on to something once you know the deets.
Just prior to making the trade, Gillis was walking through a mall in Vancouver, not keeping his head up, when Joe Thornton stepped out of a La Senza, after buying himself fresh undies, and not wanting to be seen, stepped in to Gillis, snapping his head back, even though, the police report said it was contact with the neck, and therefore not an offence, merely an accident, and Thornton was free to go, not like those assinine NHL officials, who chose to punish such an obviously clean and legal mishap.
This caused a couple days of fog for Gillis, in which, on Draft day, before anyone could stop him, he pulled the trigger on the trade for Ballard, not remembering due to concussion symptoms,that the year previous, Bouwmeester had already been traded, and that was who he was actually after in his damaged state of mind.
This has all been a bad bit of misunderstanding for the fans of the Canucks, as since the fog cleared, Gillis not only realized he didn't make the trade he thought he did, but he, through hypnotic regression, realized that Joe Thornton wears very large, very frilly T-backs. Not the kind of stuff you really want to reveal to the press!
I heard from a source that Gillis approached Ballard privately about his error, but Ballard, simply said that if he opened his yap, he'd make what he did to Vokoun, look like a love tap, to Gillis.
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 15:24:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
OK, I'll bite.
quote:
The day that trade happened, I thought that was the most one sided trade I'd ever seen. It's post trade evaluation, right after it happened, without any hindsight.
I'd love to hear some details of your analysis of the parts of this trade, that led you to conclude that this was "the most one-sided trade you'd ever seen".
Don't be so blind nuxfan! I mean, didn't you know that Grabner was gonna put up 30+ and be a rookie of the year candidate?
All i know is this, he wasn't gonna do that anytime soon in Vancovuer. He'd had his chances and did little with them. The Canucks needed defensive depth and that's exactly what they got. Unfortunately, to get something, you have to give something.
Sahis, where you look foolish in my mind, is that Ballard was coming off a couple of pretty decent seasons in Florida where he played a ton and did what was expected of him. So basically with your thoughts of it being such a bad trade at the time, somehow miraculously, you knew he was going to have an off season here in Vancouver!!! Amazing the powers you have swami Sahis!
Please just do me one favour? Look into your crystal ball puck and tell me if i'm ever gonna win the lottery? Cuz if not, i'll be sure to stop buying tickets!
I knew he wasn't gunna be in their top 4 D, it's generally a little harder to play in van city than florida or Phoenix too. I thought he was gunna drop down in production.
But my main point is that gillis could've got alot more for the commodity that is a 1st rounder during the draft. It was the stupidest trade I've seen because no matter what I couldn't see vancouver winning that trade, unless ballard became their #1 or 2 D, which he had no hope of
Go OILERS Go!!! |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 15:31:25
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Ah, FER, as refreshing a perspective as I have read. Kudos!!
Sashis, frankly you are way off base. Worst trade in the past 5 years?? How about the pile of 1st round picks that Calgary gave up for Olli Jokinen?? How about the crumbs that ATL aquired for Heatley and/or Hossa??? How about Thornton to San Jose?? How about the bag of pucks that Calgary got for Dion Phaneuf AND Keith Aulie??
Seriously, this deal was a slight over pay, but not the worst trade ever. Not even the worst trade in the past year.
The logic is absurd. My neck hurts just thinking about it. |
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 16:23:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Ah, FER, as refreshing a perspective as I have read. Kudos!!
Sashis, frankly you are way off base. Worst trade in the past 5 years?? How about the pile of 1st round picks that Calgary gave up for Olli Jokinen?? How about the crumbs that ATL aquired for Heatley and/or Hossa??? How about Thornton to San Jose?? How about the bag of pucks that Calgary got for Dion Phaneuf AND Keith Aulie??
Seriously, this deal was a slight over pay, but not the worst trade ever. Not even the worst trade in the past year.
The logic is absurd. My neck hurts just thinking about it.
AT THE TIME, worst trade ever at the time, ballard is frankly nothing but a bad contract , I'm f#cking sick of all this s*** |
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 16:55:14
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At a way to clear things up, and a tidy lil' tantrum to boot...bonus.
I am still unclear about what 'at the time' is all about like others. What time?
10:00? 9:45?
"At the time', Ballard was, and IMHO, still is, a promising defenseman, who brought defensive responsibility and a nice potential offensive upside. There should have been no reason he wouldn't have been a top 4 guy in Vancouver, regardless of all your 'it's harder to play in Van', nonsense.
He was injured at the time, recovered, got re-injured, recovered, got re-injured again. That's not exactly the way to fairly assess trade value, yet.
Vancouver got him for a slight overpayment, 'At the time', that's the reality.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 17:05:02
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quote:
Originally posted by sahis34
AT THE TIME, worst trade ever at the time, ballard is frankly nothing but a bad contract , I'm f#cking sick of all this s***
Lol, take it easy Swami, errr, Sahis, you bring this "s***" on yourself.
Please, do us all a favour and explain what this repetetive nonsense means, and i quote: AT THE TIME, worst trade ever at the time??? Does that mean at THAT EXACT MOMENT IN TIME, because if that's the case, you could be onto something because i doubt that another trade was made at PRECISELY the same time???
Here's a few other trades you must have missed in your 5 years of following hockey if you consider that one the worst...
Compliments of Puck Daddy @ Yahoo Sports.....
1. Atlanta Thrashers trade Braydon Coburn to the Philadelphia Flyers for Alexei Zhitnik. (Feb. 24, 2007)
Another masterpiece from Don Waddell, GM of the Thrashers. Coburn was a 21-year-old rugged defenseman who wasn't getting solid ice time. Zhitnik, 34, started the season on the Islanders, was traded to the Flyers and shipped to the Thrashers.
Coburn would soon develop into one of the league's best two-way defensemen, especially after being teamed with Kimmo Timonen(notes). Zhitnik was a mega-bust for Atlanta, tallying eight points in 65 games the following season before getting his contract bought out. He's now the captain for Dynamo Moscow in the KHL.
2. Philadelphia Flyers traded Patrick Sharp and Eric Meloche to the Chicago Blackhawks for Matt Ellison and a 3rd round selection in 2006. (Dec. 5, 2006)
Now, this could have easily been the Blackhawks stealing Kris Versteeg(notes) from the Boston Bruins in exchange for Brandon Bochenski(notes) in 2007. But Flyers Goal Scored By ... offers compelling evidence that this is the bigger fleecing:
After two good seasons playing in Hockey East, Sharp turned pro and joined the Phantoms for what would have been his junior year in college. The next season he split time between the Flyers and Phantoms pretty evenly, and the during the lockout he helped the Phantoms win the Calder Cup with 21 points in 21 playoff games after a 53 point regular season. And then when Sharp finally looked ready for the big leagues Bobby Clarke made one of the bigger mistakes of his tenure and traded him away for a guy that is now in the KHL and a third round pick that we then traded to Montreal for two other picks, who turned out to be current Phantom Jonathan Matsumoto and busted goalie Jakub Kovar.
He's exactly the kind of guy you want sitting next to you on the bench, which is the type of guy the Flyers have traditionally tried to acquire, not tried to deal away for a Guns 'n Roses poster and half used phone card.
3. Florida Panthers trade Roberto Luongo, Lukas Krajicek and a sixth-round pick (Sergei Shirokov) to the Vancouver Canucks for Alex Auld, Bryan Allen and Todd Bertuzzi. (June 24, 2006)
A trade made on the eve of the NHL Draft, it's the worst deal in the history of hockey.
That's not our assessment. That's what then-Florida Panthers GM Jacques Martin said about the trade in a 2007 radio interview, a claim he refused to back down from. Who are we to argue with that expertise?
Again, there were no illusions about the goaltender Roberto Luongo was at that time or the one that he would become. Just like there were none about the miles on Bertuzzi's body as a 30-year-old power forward, who ended up playing an astoundingly bad seven games for the Panthers as the centerpiece of this trade.
No contest: It's the most lopsided trade of the decade. |
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 18:06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
quote:
Originally posted by sahis34
AT THE TIME, worst trade ever at the time, ballard is frankly nothing but a bad contract , I'm f#cking sick of all this s***
Lol, take it easy Swami, errr, Sahis, you bring this "s***" on yourself.
Please, do us all a favour and explain what this repetetive nonsense means, and i quote: AT THE TIME, worst trade ever at the time??? Does that mean at THAT EXACT MOMENT IN TIME, because if that's the case, you could be onto something because i doubt that another trade was made at PRECISELY the same time???
Here's a few other trades you must have missed in your 5 years of following hockey if you consider that one the worst...
Compliments of Puck Daddy @ Yahoo Sports.....
1. Atlanta Thrashers trade Braydon Coburn to the Philadelphia Flyers for Alexei Zhitnik. (Feb. 24, 2007)
Another masterpiece from Don Waddell, GM of the Thrashers. Coburn was a 21-year-old rugged defenseman who wasn't getting solid ice time. Zhitnik, 34, started the season on the Islanders, was traded to the Flyers and shipped to the Thrashers.
Coburn would soon develop into one of the league's best two-way defensemen, especially after being teamed with Kimmo Timonen(notes). Zhitnik was a mega-bust for Atlanta, tallying eight points in 65 games the following season before getting his contract bought out. He's now the captain for Dynamo Moscow in the KHL.
2. Philadelphia Flyers traded Patrick Sharp and Eric Meloche to the Chicago Blackhawks for Matt Ellison and a 3rd round selection in 2006. (Dec. 5, 2006)
Now, this could have easily been the Blackhawks stealing Kris Versteeg(notes) from the Boston Bruins in exchange for Brandon Bochenski(notes) in 2007. But Flyers Goal Scored By ... offers compelling evidence that this is the bigger fleecing:
After two good seasons playing in Hockey East, Sharp turned pro and joined the Phantoms for what would have been his junior year in college. The next season he split time between the Flyers and Phantoms pretty evenly, and the during the lockout he helped the Phantoms win the Calder Cup with 21 points in 21 playoff games after a 53 point regular season. And then when Sharp finally looked ready for the big leagues Bobby Clarke made one of the bigger mistakes of his tenure and traded him away for a guy that is now in the KHL and a third round pick that we then traded to Montreal for two other picks, who turned out to be current Phantom Jonathan Matsumoto and busted goalie Jakub Kovar.
He's exactly the kind of guy you want sitting next to you on the bench, which is the type of guy the Flyers have traditionally tried to acquire, not tried to deal away for a Guns 'n Roses poster and half used phone card.
3. Florida Panthers trade Roberto Luongo, Lukas Krajicek and a sixth-round pick (Sergei Shirokov) to the Vancouver Canucks for Alex Auld, Bryan Allen and Todd Bertuzzi. (June 24, 2006)
A trade made on the eve of the NHL Draft, it's the worst deal in the history of hockey.
That's not our assessment. That's what then-Florida Panthers GM Jacques Martin said about the trade in a 2007 radio interview, a claim he refused to back down from. Who are we to argue with that expertise?
Again, there were no illusions about the goaltender Roberto Luongo was at that time or the one that he would become. Just like there were none about the miles on Bertuzzi's body as a 30-year-old power forward, who ended up playing an astoundingly bad seven games for the Panthers as the centerpiece of this trade.
No contest: It's the most lopsided trade of the decade.
You seriously don't know what at the time is do you, it's not based at all with the performance of the players after the trade at all,which is what you take into account with those trades you listed there. It's speculation, and I speculated that to be an awful trade for the canucks, no s*** that there have been worse trades more damaging to a franchise, but that is not at all what I'm talking about |
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just1n
PickupHockey Pro
282 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 19:00:49
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I think Ballard has played well when I've seen him in these playoffs, he's just at the bottom end of the depth chart unfortunately, and AV seems to like putting in a bigger body for that 6th d-man. I don't see how they're going to trade him with his contract, and Ehrhoff and Bieksa can't both be back next year so I figure he'll get his chance.
As for the trade, don't forget that Florida waived Grabner, so the Canucks weren't the only team to give up on him. I just don't think there was a spot for him in Van, I was happy to see him do well as an Islander actually. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 23:19:59
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Sahis, thank you for finally explaining what you meant by your confusing "AT THE TIME, worst trade ever at the time" bit meant! Either way, it doesn't matter. You see, here's the thing, the Canucks traded for a guy who had been a steady top 4 dman for the previous 4 or more years. As FER pointed out, he suffered through a slow return from off season surgery PLUS multiple inj's this season. This, from a guy who played all 82 games for the past 3 seasons!!!
I'm not trying to say, nor is Beans or FER or anyone else, that it's a good trade by any means (for the Canucks), though i do maintain that they had to give overpay a bit to get what they wanted. We're just trying to say that you look either foolish or very unknowledgeable when trying to claim it's the worst ever.
To top it off, your claim that it was the worst "at the time" is almost more brutal. It's to suggest that you either don't know a thing about Keith Ballard, or you somehow knew he'd struggle with injuries in Vancouver AND that Grabner would flourish elsewhere (even if it were in NY). Ever wonder why Fla signed him to his current deal? Maybe it was the 200+ blocked shots he had one year? Maybe it was the minutes he was eating up? Dunno, just saying.
Anyway, i'm still awaiting news on my lottery chances..... |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2011 : 08:28:09
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quote:
you look either foolish or very unknowledgeable when trying to claim it's the worst ever
Or both.
quote:
I knew he wasn't gunna be in their top 4 D, it's generally a little harder to play in van city than florida or Phoenix too. I thought he was gunna drop down in production.
But my main point is that gillis could've got alot more for the commodity that is a 1st rounder during the draft. It was the stupidest trade I've seen because no matter what I couldn't see vancouver winning that trade, unless ballard became their #1 or 2 D, which he had no hope of
Sahis, thank you for your "analysis". Indeed, based on the fact that you "knew he wasn't gunna be in their top-4 D", and the well known fact that its "a little harder to play in van city than florida", you may have a point that this is one of the worst trades in history. Its too bad you could not share these valuable insights with Gillis beforehand, to save him from making this foolish trade. Sigh...
The one thing I do agree with - he had no hope of becoming a 1-2 defenseman in Vancouver. However, no one in Vancouver thought that he would either, the trade was always meant to fill a 3-4 spot. The fact that he has not done so makes this trade dissapointing.
However, the Canucks have one thing they didn't have last year - depth at defense in case someone goes down with injury. If one of the top-6 should fall, I have a lot of comfort that AV has Ballard to insert into the lineup. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2011 : 10:23:30
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So Sahis: not to pile on or anything, but I want to take advantage of you precognitive abilities on player worth.
What kind of year will Ballard have next year? Please list approx goals/assists, thanks.
What kind of year will Grabner have next year? Goals and assists please - this is an important one for my keeper league.
Any other insights on any other players would be great, so that a year from now, we can fondly point back at this thread as solid proof that you indeed are the king of predicting player worth. 
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2011 : 10:50:58
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All i know is this, i am:
1. Not going in any hockey pools with Sahis
2. Not betting on hockey with Sahis
3. Hoping he's the Canucks next GM
4. Still awaiting my lotterty prognosis / chances.
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2011 : 11:39:53
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Alright guys, I think the point has been made, made again, shot, resurrected, then made again.
Sashis, if you are 'sick of this s*&t" as you claim, perhaps being a little more reasonable with your posts would help. This site is full of guys like me, Alex, and Slozo (among many other great contributors to the site) who will argue just about anything we disagree with.
Not just for you but for any poster, if you are going to post something, expect a response. Further to that, expect the opposite view to your own to be that response and be prepared to back up your opinion.
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Topic |
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Get Rid Of Ballard 
