Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Search
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?
 All Forums
 Eastern Conference - Atlantic Division
Allow Anonymous Posting forum... Toronto
 Leafs - What about this year? Allow Anonymous Users Reply to This Topic...
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 4

ToXXiK1
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
696 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2011 :  05:44:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7

ho hummm............ oops

Tyler Seguin wow.

"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker




Go to Top of Page

Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



714 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2011 :  10:41:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What a bad game, right from the get go they were not skating and they were not able to make a pass from tape to tape.

I dont know what's up with Cody Franson but the Leafs let in 6 6 and 7 goals in the games he was playing. I know Ron Wilson wanted to give a message to Luke Schenn but really they had a winning lineup why did he feel the need to change it all. He also brought in Rosehill to fight with Thornton and sent Frattin down.

Also I have no clue why Ron Wilson put Ben Scrivens in. What a stupid move, Yes he did play well thursday but he's young, you dont want to mess with his confidence. Plus the Leafs were finally playing themselves with Gustavsson and they were finally able to win with him in the net, so now they might have to start all over to build up The Monster's confidence and the team's confidence in him.

Why would he go with Ben Scrivens, against a team they have a hard time with, on a saturday night??? that's beyond me.

It's the second meeting against the Bruins and it's the second time Ron Wilson switches his lineup to play them and both times they were blow out in favor of the Bruins.

The Leafs have a deep team and a fast team this year. All lines are firing but they need to improve their special teams... oh and I hate Ron Wilson.
Go to Top of Page

Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro



640 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2011 :  15:37:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nothing like a good beatin to bring some reality to the Leafs. Hopefully they learn that despite their record they have long way to go.
A good thumpin usually makes for a good wake up call but it could really kill confidence as well.
And for god sakes, fix the frickin PK.
I wouldn't get to distraught over the loss though the Leafs have played some really good games lately. Also if you break down that game against Boston, the Leafs played one absolutely horrible period and not so bad the other two. So the way I look at it, they had one really really really bad period in the last few games and it cost them.
Still if they can still manage a strong November they will be in position to have some of those bad games later on without costing them a lot in the standings.
Go to Top of Page

Guest0959
( )

Posted - 11/06/2011 :  21:37:52  Reply with Quote
Love that Tyler Seguin's first NHL hat trick was versus Toronto!
Go to Top of Page

slozo
Moderator



Canada
4594 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2011 :  05:46:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Leafs81

What a bad game, right from the get go they were not skating and they were not able to make a pass from tape to tape.

I dont know what's up with Cody Franson but the Leafs let in 6 6 and 7 goals in the games he was playing. I know Ron Wilson wanted to give a message to Luke Schenn but really they had a winning lineup why did he feel the need to change it all. He also brought in Rosehill to fight with Thornton and sent Frattin down.

Also I have no clue why Ron Wilson put Ben Scrivens in. What a stupid move, Yes he did play well thursday but he's young, you dont want to mess with his confidence. Plus the Leafs were finally playing themselves with Gustavsson and they were finally able to win with him in the net, so now they might have to start all over to build up The Monster's confidence and the team's confidence in him.

Why would he go with Ben Scrivens, against a team they have a hard time with, on a saturday night??? that's beyond me.

It's the second meeting against the Bruins and it's the second time Ron Wilson switches his lineup to play them and both times they were blow out in favor of the Bruins.

The Leafs have a deep team and a fast team this year. All lines are firing but they need to improve their special teams... oh and I hate Ron Wilson.



First off, Franson was only a - on the last goal I think, he was one of the better players out there. My guess is Schenn would have done worse, actually.

But, I agree on the Scrivens call versus putting Gustavsson in net . . . and even though it was not popular among Leafers (they were all clammering for Scrivens to go in), I was one of the few who sai you SHOULD start the Monster. This though was like a vote of no-confidence, on the basis of a one game debut for a rookie against one of the worst teams in the league. Not cool, and a rookie mistake by the coach IMHO.

I just want to forget this game and move on, and so should the Leafs, end of story.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Go to Top of Page

Guest6786
( )

Posted - 11/07/2011 :  10:10:58  Reply with Quote
so we got our butts handed to us in one game. it's a sport, it happens. we won't be the only team to lose a game like that this year. not by a long shot.
the bigger concern is how do we react in the games that follow? we have 3 very winnable games the rest of this week against FLA, STL, and OTT. if we only win 1 of those (or none) then there is a definite concern.
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2011 :  12:28:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Excellent point Guest, and one you echoed from Slozo either either earlier in this forum or in another Leaf forum. The key to being a playoff team is not winning every game against the best in the NHL, it's winning most games against the lesser teams. When looking at the Leafs record to this point, you will see:

Wins against : Montreal(2), Ottawa, Calgary, Winnipeg, New York, New Jersey, Pittsburgh, and Columbus.

Losses against : Boston (2), Philadelphia, Ottawa, Colorado.

With the exception of the loss to Ottawa, the Leaf have won most every game they should have won and a few than they should not have won. I would still not be too comfortable with some of the ways the Leafs have won, specifically giving up 3-4 goals against weaker teams, but it is success none the less.

This next three weeks will be the true test for the Leafs. 6 of the next 11 games on the road with only Boston, Washington, and TB as 'upper tier" teams should be interesting. If they are for real, the Leafs should win around 7 of the next 11 games.
Go to Top of Page

Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2268 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2011 :  01:15:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Connelly just went down for 10 to 12 days maybe instead of bringing in Frattin from the marlies they should reward joe Colburn (12gp 19p) i believe

"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
Go to Top of Page

Guest6786
( )

Posted - 11/08/2011 :  05:16:31  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7

Connelly just went down for 10 to 12 days maybe instead of bringing in Frattin from the marlies they should reward joe Colburn (12gp 19p) i believe

"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker




The already have one too many centres. Sounds like they'll shift Bozak up to the top line again and move Lombarrdi to his natural centre position on the 3rd line, between Crabb and Frattin.
Go to Top of Page

slozo
Moderator



Canada
4594 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2011 :  05:53:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Excellent point Guest, and one you echoed from Slozo either either earlier in this forum or in another Leaf forum. The key to being a playoff team is not winning every game against the best in the NHL, it's winning most games against the lesser teams. When looking at the Leafs record to this point, you will see:

Wins against : Montreal(2), Ottawa, Calgary, Winnipeg, New York, New Jersey, Pittsburgh, and Columbus.

Losses against : Boston (2), Philadelphia, Ottawa, Colorado.

With the exception of the loss to Ottawa, the Leaf have won most every game they should have won and a few than they should not have won. I would still not be too comfortable with some of the ways the Leafs have won, specifically giving up 3-4 goals against weaker teams, but it is success none the less.

This next three weeks will be the true test for the Leafs. 6 of the next 11 games on the road with only Boston, Washington, and TB as 'upper tier" teams should be interesting. If they are for real, the Leafs should win around 7 of the next 11 games.



They should win 7 of the next 11 if they are for real?!?

Are you for real? Have you worked out which teams have a winning record right now? Have you considered that most playoff teams have at best a .500 record on the road?

So you don't count red-hot Dallas as an upper tier team, despite the fact that they lead the western conference, 2nd overall in the NHL?

You don't count the perennial playoff team Nashville as a tough out on the road? They have a 7-4-2 record right now, btw, gets them in 7/8th spot in the playoffs currently.

You don't think Phoenix, tied with Nashville currently, will be a difficult game for any team on the road? They are also 7-4-2

Goodness then . . . only a handful of teams must be for real in your world!

I'll put it to you this way - if the Leafs are currently 2wins,1loss in November. 11 games to go for the month.

I'd be happy with 5 wins out of those 11, which would inevitably include a shootout or O/T loss in there (or two). I would be very happy with that. December is even tougher actually, 8 road, 5 home games, and it starts out against tough opponents.

If after Nov, then Dec, we have maintained anything close to a .500 pace during that stretch . . . I will be quite pleased. That, to me, would be a solid playoff team that has somehow managed to survive a very long stretch of games without their starting netminder, who certainly should be back within a month.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2011 :  08:40:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is my logic on the 7 of 11. Maybe I should have been more clear in I did not expect 7 wins, but 7 wins worth of points. Secondly, a team's record to this point and their actual talent and skill is not the same thing. I couldn't care less about the standings. When I look at Dallas compared to Toronto, TO is a better team. Here is my logic.

vs Florida - Should be a win
vs St Louis - Should be a win
vs Ottawa - Should be a win
vs Phoenix - Win or a OTL
at Nashville - Win or a OTL
vs Washington - likely a loss
at Carolina - Should be a win
at Tampa Bay - Win or a OTL
at Dallas - Should be a win
at Ahanheim - Win or a OTL
vs Boston - Should be a loss.

By my crazy math, that is 5 situations that should be a win, 4 other situations that should be a win or a OTL, and 2 situations of a loss.

So sure, their record at the end of the month might be 5-2-4 which is the 5 wins, but it's 14 pts or the same as 7 wins. We are talking the same thing just in a different language.

Go to Top of Page

The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1040 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2011 :  08:56:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Looking at that list .....if the leafs can obtain 12 points againist those teams, then i`d say they`ve done very well.

Connelly gone down again !!! Glad Burke didn`t sign this guy for 4 - 5 years. He may be a creative player but the guy always seems to be hurt. When you miss 14 days ( approx ) its not just those games your out...when you come back your not the same. The body is still sore, your timing is off.

If a player has 3 - 4 episodes of this a season...basically he is useless for approx half the hockey year. Whats wrong with him now ?? anyone know ??
Go to Top of Page

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2011 :  09:01:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Are you for real? Have you worked out which teams have a winning record right now? Have you considered that most playoff teams have at best a .500 record on the road?



Slozo, you should probably take a look at the final standings from last year. Every playoff team was over .500 on the road last year, and with the exception of MTL (20-19-2) and NSH (20-18-3), they were substantially over. In fact, in the last 2 seasons, only 3 teams out of 32 have been a playoff team with a sub-500 record on the road - the 2009/10 Canucks, Sens, and Flyers.

You generally don't make the playoffs if you are "at best .500 on the road".

Edited by - nuxfan on 11/08/2011 09:02:06
Go to Top of Page

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2011 :  09:01:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
<posted twice>

Edited by - nuxfan on 11/08/2011 09:02:23
Go to Top of Page

The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1040 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2011 :  13:32:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Big game for the leafs tonight ( after an a$$ whipping ) lets see how they respond.

I wonder why Ron Wilson doesn`t change his PK format ( stand still and don`t be aggressive), it hasn`t worked for over 3 years now...what does he need...a bang over his head.

I think Wilson is the only coach to lead a team to 30 th overall in PK and 30 th overall in PP in the same season in NHL history. If i`m not mistaken, i believe i read somewhere he accomplished this feat 2 times.

In reality a good PK is only as good as your goaltending...the leafs haven`t had this ( other than Reimer for 2 months ) since the lockout in 2005. Ed Belfour was the leafs last consistent tender in 2004.

Even though the leafs have a good record so far this season i worry about some of the things they do on the ice.

Their PK in non- existent...
Their PP is brutal ( they can`t even set up )...
They give up so many breakaways...
plus 2 on 1`s.....and 3 on 2`s...
In my eyes they don`t have a system...
Other than Reimer their goaltending is average at best...
Their backup is maybe the worst in the NHL...numbers are brutal..
No set breakout...just hope for the best...

Its amazing how they have won so many games this season looking at all these facts...i watch all leaf games and i don`t think i`m wrong with these assessments.

What is the problem ?? Is Ron Wilson the most over - rated coach in the entire league ?? Having absolutely no apparent team system...5 on 5...PP...and PK....

Is this the coaches fault ?? Is it the players fault ?? Is the coach not putting an effective system into play causing all these problems ?? Is there a system in place ( which is not visible ) but the players are not following it ??

I know one thing, i`ve seen worst NHL teams ( skill and team speed wise ) have a much better system than the leafs. Teams have had better PP`s and much better PK`s than the leafs with considerable less talent.

Go to Top of Page

Guest6786
( )

Posted - 11/08/2011 :  13:47:36  Reply with Quote
not sure how they expect to improve their special teams in practice. it's tough to improve when a 30th ranked PP is practicing against a 30th ranked PK, and vice versa.
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2011 :  14:30:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest6786

not sure how they expect to improve their special teams in practice. it's tough to improve when a 30th ranked PP is practicing against a 30th ranked PK, and vice versa.



LOL!
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2011 :  15:26:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
One thing that is interesting is that when Wilson was in SJ the team was one of the top PP and PK in the NHL.To me that speaks volumes.

Not talking about this year because I think Wilson has better tools to use now than he ever has behind the Leafs bench. However, in years past I would put a pretty big amount of the blame on the players. If you don't have talent to work with I don't see how anyone can expect an elite outcome.

Also, I think it is incredibly short-sighted to say there is no system. I see a system, both on the PK and PP. Not saying it is an effective system, but there is a system. It's not like the Leafs are skating around aimlessly.
Go to Top of Page

slozo
Moderator



Canada
4594 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2011 :  06:39:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Are you for real? Have you worked out which teams have a winning record right now? Have you considered that most playoff teams have at best a .500 record on the road?



Slozo, you should probably take a look at the final standings from last year. Every playoff team was over .500 on the road last year, and with the exception of MTL (20-19-2) and NSH (20-18-3), they were substantially over. In fact, in the last 2 seasons, only 3 teams out of 32 have been a playoff team with a sub-500 record on the road - the 2009/10 Canucks, Sens, and Flyers.

You generally don't make the playoffs if you are "at best .500 on the road".



I beg to differ - I count OTL as losses, btw . . . and my ".500 road record" for playoff teams comment assumes that each playoff team has a winning home record - for some teams, it is switched around, so I would include a team with a sub .500 record as well.

2010/11
NY Rangers - below .500 HOME record (20-17-4)
Montreal - below .500 ROAD record (20-19-2)
Nashville - below .500 ROAD record (20-18-3)

. . . and I'll include those teams that had a Home/Road record that was just one game above .500:

Buffalo - HOME record (21-16-4)
Tampa Bay - ROAD record (21-14-6)
Chicago - ROAD record (20-12-9)
Detroit - HOME record (21-14-6)
Anaheim - ROAD record (21-17-3)
Phoenix - HOME record (21-13-7)
Los Angeles - ROAD record (21-17-3)

That is 10 out of 16 playoff teams with about a .500 record.

This is the generalisation I was referring to . . . ASSUMING that the home record is a decent winning %, the road record to shoot for is .500 or better. Obviously, if your home record is only around .500, you'd have to make up for it with a decent winning % on the road.

Only the very elite regular season contenders have "good" winning percentages for both home and away.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Edited by - slozo on 11/09/2011 06:42:27
Go to Top of Page

ToXXiK1
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
696 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2011 :  07:46:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
After watching the last couple of games, Reimer better not be out to much longer as the Leafs are a completely different team without him. Or, are they the same team but with a better goalie?
I know that Boston has the same disease and play the jeckel / hyde game when Rask is in net.
Go to Top of Page

ToXXiK1
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
696 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2011 :  07:52:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest6786

so we got our butts handed to us in one game. it's a sport, it happens. we won't be the only team to lose a game like that this year. not by a long shot.
the bigger concern is how do we react in the games that follow? we have 3 very winnable games the rest of this week against FLA, STL, and OTT. if we only win 1 of those (or none) then there is a definite concern.


One game? 6-2 & 7-0 is 2, and the 5-1 to FLA. That's 13-2 VS Boston. 1st game was all Monster, so why would Coach put him in again?
Go to Top of Page

The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1040 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2011 :  08:13:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Anyone know whats up with Marty Turco ??

If the leafs don`t soon get an NHL quality goalie ( assuming Reimer isn`t playing for a while ) their record will soon be 9 - 9 - 1 ....these 2 goaltenders are, well, oh my Je*$*s...

The monster was NEVER any good...and NEVER will be

Scrivens is clearly not close to being NHL ready, prepared...etc

Toronto better get an NHL capable goalie and right now, not in 2 - 3 weeks time. If they don`t...it may surely be the difference in wether or not they make the playoffs this season.

The leafs players confidence right now is very fragile.....because of constant questionable goals going againist them.....when this happens teams collapse. Everything goes out the window.

Burke better get an NHL calibre goalie in Toronto`s net immediately or all chemistry built this season will be lost.
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2011 :  08:56:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Surprise, surprise. A Leaf fan putting all the blame on the goalie again. I am not saying that Gustavsson or Scrivens have been great but ask yourself a couple of questions before you start laying the hammer down between the pipes:

How often do you see 2 or fewer Leaf skaters in the TV frame when the opposing team scores a goal??

or

How often do you see 5 Leaf players on the screen either not moving or not covering anyone on the opposing team when they are scored on??

More often than not, the goalie doesn't have a hope in of stopping a wide open NHL player. That not just the Leafs, that any team in the NHL. Goalies are around 50% out when they are prepared and one on one with a shooter. What do you think their odds are 2 on 1 or with screens and such. The goalie is only as good as the team in front of them. There have been very, very, very few examples of a team going an entire season on the shoulders of their goalie. Only Hasek and Roy come to mind for me.

Sometimes a goalie will let in something they should not. I did not watch the game last night end to end but from the highlights I did see, I believe only one or maybe 2 of the 5 goals against the Leafs could be blamed on the goalie.


To answer your question Duke, Marty Turco is playing tricks on the opposition with his old "open the door to the players box' move in some beer league somewhere. In short, Turco's doing nothing. But he also did nothing in Chicago last year.

Maybe the Leafs should give Justin Pogge a call too, hey??
Go to Top of Page

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2011 :  09:14:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
yeah Duke, I have to agree - the Leafs have way more wrong with them than questionable goaltending. They have zero PP, they have an abysmal PK, and play pretty poor defensively. With the exception of Steckl, they can't seem to win a faceoff.

The Leafs were fine as long as they were scoring 4 or 5 goals a game - they could let in their 3 or 4 and still win games. However, now that the scoring has dried up a bit those problems that had them allowing 4 goals are glaring. While I don't believe too much in either current goalie for the Leafs, I do believe the problems are not in the net alone.
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2011 :  09:37:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

yeah Duke, I have to agree - the Leafs have way more wrong with them than questionable goaltending. They have zero PP, they have an abysmal PK, and play pretty poor defensively. With the exception of Steckl, they can't seem to win a faceoff.

The Leafs were fine as long as they were scoring 4 or 5 goals a game - they could let in their 3 or 4 and still win games. However, now that the scoring has dried up a bit those problems that had them allowing 4 goals are glaring. While I don't believe too much in either current goalie for the Leafs, I do believe the problems are not in the net alone.



Interesting comments Nux, especially the one in bold. Does anyone remember some of these comments from this thread from some complete moron that got lambasted for even thinking such thoughts and was accused of Leaf Bias??

Man, the guy who said this stuff is a complete moron. Maybe he should just shut up and let those who are far smarter and better at seeing the game of hockey make all the posts. By the way, what happened to all those 'ho-hum' posts???

Take nothing away from TO. They have been fun to watch so far. But there are things that indicate that long term troubles are ahead. Poor PP, poor PK, no secondary scoring, average goaltending. Not confident statements for the playoffs.

The case is I have watched them play and not really dominate anyone. They got spanked by Boston, went to OT/SO against COL and WIN who are both predicted to be non-playoff teams, won a 1 goal game against a borderline team in Calgary, and won a solid game against Montreal by 2 goals. In that time they have been outscored overall, have a bottom 10 PK and PP, are 26th in the NHL in goals against, and have very little secondary scoring support. As I said, outside of the top line who is scoring in piles, there isn't much of the Leafs that can be called 'great' or 'solid'. Is that a biased, Leaf hating opinion??

Gotta love the optimism with the 'winning games' comments. I appreciate that winning games is what the point is. I can't help but notice the long term concern at giving up 3-4 goals a game and give those goals up to weaker teams.

But, I guess as far the Leafs goes, giving up more than 3 goals a game is fine as long as they keep winning. Frankly, if anyone expects Kessel to maintain his 170 pt season pace, please call me. I have a bridge to sell you.

The start of the season (IMO) is less about winning or losing but how you are winning or losing. That is normally what tells one about the long term potential of the season. Not saying the Leafs are done, but playing better defensive and playing better on the special teams will be key for their success this season.

Edited by - Beans15 on 11/09/2011 13:48:42
Go to Top of Page

BucketHead
Top Prospect



Canada
78 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2011 :  14:42:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Marty Turco was on i think nhl network, providing analysis, from what i've read he is a unrestricted free agent and has not retired.
Go to Top of Page

Guest4038
( )

Posted - 11/09/2011 :  15:53:30  Reply with Quote
i read that he's been practicing with the Soo Greyhounds in the OHL.
Go to Top of Page

The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1040 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2011 :  03:41:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nuxfan, i think i already listed those points in my earlier post regarding leafs problems....read this post an i think i named every problem you brought up....

So Beans, no i`m not just another leaf fan blaming it all on goal - tending...if i did i wouldn`t have listed the many leaf woes in my earlier post.

Sometimes a goalie lets in a softie Beans....Did you watch the last leaf game ?? Did you hear the comments made by TSN`s hockey analyist ?? Did you hear when they said...and i quote....when the score was 5 - 1 Florida it could have been 1 - 0 leafs or at best a 1 - 1 tie....Oh yes, thats exactly what they said.

I know goaltending is not the leafs only problem...believe me i know...BUT when your goalies have numbers like..
Monster...GAA 3.78 Save % .878
B. Scr.....GAA 4.07 Save % .867
This is scary, and letting in 1 - 2 bad goals every game !!! How can the players get going ??

Do you know the leafs had to score 14 goals over the last 2 games in order to win both games...who averages 7 goals per game ?? Its next to impossible to win with those clowns in net.

Go to Top of Page

The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1040 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2011 :  03:46:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry, i shouldn`t be so hard on Ben Scrivens, the guy just doesn`t have enough experience. Most of his hockey career has been spent in either college or the east coast league.

Scrivens may very well be a good tender one day....But the monster, Yikes !!!
Go to Top of Page

slozo
Moderator



Canada
4594 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2011 :  07:46:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Reimer status is critical, and I am definitely getting worried.

Nabakov rumours are now starting up.

And . . . I think it sounds like an ideal solution, if Reimer is out another week, I'd say. Leafs could get him for cheap, and he instantly gives stability to the goaltending situation until Reimer gets back.

But this is EXACTLY why I thought they should have already gotten a veteran goaltender in the offseason. I thought it was the one mistake Burke made, and see where we are now because of it.

And no, I don't blame all the trouble on goaltending, but it's something that can quickly be fixed and have an immediate impact. Defence, on the other hand, and coaching them to play systems and coverage better, takes much more time.

The Leafs built up a nice cushion, but they now need to scratch and claw it seems to scrape out a few victories until things stabilise.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2011 :  08:35:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree that long term goalie stability is important, however do people also not see this as a band-aid solution?? What about fixing the PK and the team defense so the Leafs do not have to depend on their goalie to steal games more often than not??

I think the Leafs allowing the 3rd most goals against per game, the 18th most shots against per game, and having the worst PK in the league have as much or more to do with the team defense than the goalie. They are averaging 4 PK's a game and with a 71% PK, they are almost certain to give up at least one PP goal every game. Might as well put the scoreboard to 1-0 before the puck drops.

That is partial goaltending and partially team defense, but these numbers were not that much different with Reimer in net than the other two guys who have played between the pipes. The goaltending hasn't changed that much. Through the start of the year this was being compensated for by the Leafs offensive prowess. That offense was hiding the 3-4 goals against every night.

It's still too early to hit the panic button but I see where Slozo's concern is coming from. There will be some pretty tense moments between now and Saturday night and if the Leafs lose the next 2 the same way they lost the past 2, get ready to push the little red button.
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2011 :  11:24:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Heard on the radio today that Reimer's mom was quoted as saying her son had "suffered many concussions in the past".

At such a young age, this has to be a concern!!!
Go to Top of Page

slozo
Moderator



Canada
4594 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2011 :  04:40:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Huge win last night, definitely not ho-hum. Huge morale boost, and mostly, huge in the way that they played . . . they were tenacious, skated very hard and fast, and played that quick transition game that was their key to success. AND, they played a team that was ALSO playing quite well, I have to say.

And Scrivens was put in net again . . . and played very well. Maybe even great, actually. To me, this game is huge in another aspect - it spells the end of Gustavsson as the go-to guy. We knew the leash would be very short, and I actually think it's one of those "right call at the wrong time" things. But we'll see what Burke cooks up in terms of a potential goalie deal in the near future.

Beans:
Goaltending is a band-aid that can win games for you, so I wouldn't call that a band-aid. Good goaltending helps mediocre teams have a chance at the playoffs, great goaltending gets you in (see: Montreal, NY Rangers in the past). And, there IS a difference for the pk comparing Reimer to Gustavsson (although the sample is small for Reimer, it's all we have) . . . saw it flashed on the tv last night, it was about an 8 or 10% difference, which put the pk in the middle of the pack, as opposed to at the bottom. Can't find it online . . . but trust me, it was a difference.

But again - not that I don't agree the defence needs improvement defensively. It does. But I think it's a defence that may just be adjusting to new roles, assignments and pecking order in some cases, outside of Gunarsson and Phaneuf who have been awesome. I think in time, the defence will get a bit better on its own, is what I am saying (defensively - obviously, in terms of offence, Leafs D is great).

Really interesting next coupe of weeks to come though in terms of Reimer, Gustavsson, and a potential new face.



"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Go to Top of Page

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2011 :  09:20:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

Huge win last night, definitely not ho-hum. Huge morale boost, and mostly, huge in the way that they played . . . they were tenacious, skated very hard and fast, and played that quick transition game that was their key to success. AND, they played a team that was ALSO playing quite well, I have to say.



Really? I watched the last half of that game last night, and I saw STL massively outplaying TOR for much of it. I think TOR was lucky to get it to OT at all - were it not for some great goaltending by Scrivens it could have been an ugly ending. TOR was outshot 22-8 over the final few periods (and 40-22 overall), and there was a lot of messy play in their own end. They coughed up several odd-man rushes, and had trouble getting the puck up ice.

Perhaps TOR had a good first period? After that, it was the Scrivens show against a pretty fast moving STL team, and Scrivens won.

Edited by - nuxfan on 11/11/2011 09:21:32
Go to Top of Page

slozo
Moderator



Canada
4594 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2011 :  10:53:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Don't disagree with you nuxfan, so I am not sure why you think I disagree with you.

Sure, the last half of the game they did not have a lot of puck possession, and yes, hardly any shots compared to St. Louis . . . and yes, the Leafs only scratched out a win with the help of Scrivens. But stats only tell one side of the story, and I was really referring to the way I thought the team as a whole looked like they had much more energy, tenacity, and fight in them. They were good in the O/T defensively, I thought. Better in the defensive zone despite all the shots on net, and despite the two great chances they gave to the Blues (especially the Steen robbery).

For me, it was more about body language, fighting for the pucks in the corner, etc. I knew it was going to be a tough game against a rejuvenated opponent, and I do agree the Leafs were lucky to get out with 2 points.

But a win is a win, and as I pointed out, confidence and feeling positive was a very big deal after two blowout losses at home, and it looks like they had it, despite being mostly outplayed.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2011 :  11:13:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Slozo, your last two posts seem like polar opposites. The first paragraph of the first post makes it seem as though the Leafs were the better team? Your next post seems to say otherwise and moreso that they gritted out a win.

I saw the same game as nuxfan. The Leafs, skating hard or not, were outplayed overall and lucky to get out of there with a couple points. Heck, looking back, they prob would have been happy with 1 point!
Go to Top of Page

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2011 :  11:14:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

Don't disagree with you nuxfan, so I am not sure why you think I disagree with you.



Oh, ok. I assumed because of this line:

"Huge morale boost, and mostly, huge in the way that they played . . . they were tenacious, skated very hard and fast, and played that quick transition game that was their key to success"

That you were satisfied with the way the Leafs played all of last night's game. IMO their key to success last night was Scrivens, and that was it. I thought the Leafs, at least in the second half of the game, did not play well.

Stats may not tell the whole story, but getting outshot by a 2-1 margin (and a 3-1 margin in the last 2 periods) definitely gives you a strong idea of how the game probably went.

Not taking away from the Leafs - they got 2 points in a game that they probably should not have gotten 2 points in - but that was not a shining example of "team effort"

Edited by - nuxfan on 11/11/2011 11:15:10
Go to Top of Page

Guest4551
( )

Posted - 11/15/2011 :  13:31:29  Reply with Quote
so i am a firm bielver that winning the face off on the power play is just as importnant on the PK so play stekel on the PP, win the faceoff and get him in the crease screening the goalie STOP triing to set up the onetime from the point because it is NOT working the LEAGUE know hows to defend it.
Go to Top of Page

Guest4243
( )

Posted - 11/15/2011 :  19:10:14  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TheRC
I wouldn't call 5-2-1 ho hum. And it seems flawed to predict a November collapse on the grounds that the team had a crappy November last year.

Hmm flawed to predict a november collapse. Maybe not. I see that the branches on the trees are bare again. It happened last year, the year before, the year before that.... You're right it won't happen next year though.

How do you know it's November? Everybody together now: THAT'S WHEN THE LEAFS FALL.

What happens when something falls? It bounces up a little bit before it comes to a crashing halt. Don't give your hopes up when you see the bounce in Feb and March.
Go to Top of Page

slozo
Moderator



Canada
4594 Posts

Posted - 11/16/2011 :  06:02:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4243

quote:
Originally posted by TheRC
I wouldn't call 5-2-1 ho hum. And it seems flawed to predict a November collapse on the grounds that the team had a crappy November last year.

Hmm flawed to predict a november collapse. Maybe not. I see that the branches on the trees are bare again. It happened last year, the year before, the year before that.... You're right it won't happen next year though.

How do you know it's November? Everybody together now: THAT'S WHEN THE LEAFS FALL.

What happens when something falls? It bounces up a little bit before it comes to a crashing halt. Don't give your hopes up when you see the bounce in Feb and March.



You really need work on your analogies, with the bouncing leaves and all. A maple leaf I guess doesn't lend itself to metaphor as well as other symbols though, I'll give you that.

Other than that, you sound like a pure hater who loves to hate, guest . . . you have anything to say which might disprove that? A favourite team, pehaps? Insight on the Leafs or any other team that goes past the "you suck/we rule" opinion?

We'd love to hear it, waiting with bated breath!

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 4 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
Jump To:
Snitz Forums 2000 Go To Top Of Page