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Guest8149
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 Posted - 11/12/2011 : 21:08:03
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There I said it! NHL goalies are like punters or field goal kickers in football! They play a contact sport, but they really don't like the contact!
Okay - I'm exaggerating, but how about Ryan Miller's comments about getting bumped (some would say hit, but when was the last time someone really checked a goalie), in tonight's game.
Here's an excerpt of Miller's comments:
"I just wanted to say what a piece of [expletive] I think Lucic is. Fifty pounds on me and he runs me like that? It's unbelievable. Everyone in this city sees him as a big, tough, solid player. I respected him for how hard he played. That was gutless. Gutless piece of {expletive}.
I watched the play and Miller came out to the centre spot in the right hand face-off circle to play the puck. Stay in your net if you're afraid of contact. Lucic barely hit Miller, and for Miller to make a comment about Lucic's 50-pound weight advantage is ridiculous. What's Lucic supposed to so about his size or weight?
And who's really gutless? Goalies wear more equipment than regular players, and that's fine when they stay in their net. They get the great benefit of the rules when they wander from the net, but if they want to play a physical game, they shouldn't complain about some minor incidental contact when they stray from the crease. And who's cares if another player is 50 pounds bigger than you? If you can't play with men (and men of all allowable sizes), go play in a lesser league which suits your style, but not the NHL!
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BucketHead
Top Prospect
Canada
78 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2011 : 00:30:44
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| i think he ran him over, he could have tried to move outta the way, both of them could have done thing different. |
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Guest4649
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Posted - 11/13/2011 : 04:52:43
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Suspention No DOubt he had more then enuff time to move out of the way.....................
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Guest4576
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Posted - 11/13/2011 : 05:19:40
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So one goalie says something and all goalies are wimps? Really?
Goalies are like kickers? More like QB or pitcher in my books.
Well,, its pretty amazing for such wimpy to stand in their and allow 90+ mph shots being taken at them, equipment or no.
And besides, Lucic IS a big oaf. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2011 : 06:57:42
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Miller might not be a wimp, but he sure is a whiner.
Legal hit, shouldn't have been a penalty IMHO. I don't see how that is a charge . . . especially when you pretend that Miller was a defenceman, and now imagine the hit Lucic would have made - yeah.
Never liked this babying of the goalies thing, when they are well outside the crease. On the other hand, the NHL often also gets it wrong on clear interference calls on goalies . . . it's something the refs really need to work on.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest4243
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Posted - 11/13/2011 : 10:28:07
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Miller might not be a wimp, but he sure is a whiner.
Legal hit, shouldn't have been a penalty IMHO. I don't see how that is a charge . . . especially when you pretend that Miller was a defenceman, and now imagine the hit Lucic would have made - yeah.
Never liked this babying of the goalies thing, when they are well outside the crease. On the other hand, the NHL often also gets it wrong on clear interference calls on goalies . . . it's something the refs really need to work on.
Loved it. Come out of your crease in open ice, not against the board (because a goalie and their equipment takes a hit more awkwardly), you are free game. Kelly Hrudey agreed with this. Nothing wrong there. I think Miller is just peeved that no one stood up to Lucic. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2011 : 16:17:28
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What is the actual rule?? I was of the understanding that the regardless of where the goalie is on the ice, a skater must make an attempt to avoid contact. If the goalie is in the crease, the only time a penalty is called is when the keeper is not afforded the luxury of attempting to stop the puck.
Am I right in this?? If this is the case, then to me this is a penalty by definition of the rule. No way in h-e-double hockey sticks did Lucic attempt to avoid contact. 2 minutes, nothing more.
As far as Miller goes, grab a set. He is just complaining because he is having a lack-luster year. It makes him look weak and that is the last thing that any hockey player would like to be perceived as. Goalie or not. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2011 : 18:32:30
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One thing people do have to understand is goalies may seem well protected they are anything but when it comes to body contact, a goalies helment is designed to deflect impact from a puck not absorb a hit, trust me on this I where a goalie mask 3 times a weeks when some gets you in the mask with a shoulder or a knee (happens a lot when a goalie is down freezeing the puck and the player charging the net for a rebound trys to avoid the goalie too late) it hurts a lot more than it would with a players helment which is designed to absorb inpact. a Goalies shoulders are also very exposed all the protection coming from the front obviously protec the goalie from 100mph rubber bullets coming at em, but on the sides and in the back almost 0 protection so if i a goalie gets checkm say into the boards while playing to puck behind the net their is a good chance he goes shoulder first into the boards with little to no protection on his shoulder,,,
this is why sometimes you see goalies get bumped behind the net very weakly and the ref hands out a penalty they re trying to protect under protected goalies.. A goalie is not fair game outside of his net because A. His equipment is not designed to protect him against being fair game, and B. it's hardley fair game when the goalies equipments makes it nearly impossible for the goalie to move fast enough tio either elude the check protect himself or even try and check someone..
that being said Lucic deserves a 2 minute penalty and an ass whooping in this instance and nothing more, to call goalies whimps in this case to to be just oblivious to Goaltending in general
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2011 : 18:36:33
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That's a great point Pasty. The goalie equipment is not designed to withstand hits, it's designed to handle impact from the puck.
I wouldn't often say a goalie is a wimp. I have played the position a very few times in ball hockey and once on skates. By far the toughest position I have played. That being said, I have no issue if the NHL was to make a rule that made the goalies 'fair game' out side of their crease.
Inside the crease, full protection. Outside of the crease, fair game. |
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Russcores
Top Prospect
Canada
5 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2011 : 18:42:49
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I agree that a goalie is "fair game" to a point if he puts himself outside his crease to play the puck . In my opinion a bump or some contact is fine to give the goaltender but Lucic ran Miller hard . He could of easily got out of the way or at least let up . If you ran the time frame by frame to see how long Miller had got rid of the puck to the time he got mowed over by Lucic.... might not be far off from the Rome/ Horton hit ???
That being said .... what if Miller had actually made contact with his flailing stick swinging attempt to knock Lucic's head clean off ???? |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2011 : 19:10:52
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seems Miller is out with a concussion from the hit, and Lucic now has a disciplinary hearing with Shanny.
I didn't see the hit, but generally agree with Patsy - goalies and equipment are not designed to take hits from other players, and given that goalies are always following the puck, they are generally unprepared to take hits when players (that do not have the puck) come at them. If you don't prepare yourself to absorb a hit, its going to hurt a lot more when it happens.
That being said - I think the NHL should stop calling penalties when goalies stray too far from their net - if a goalie goes out to play the puck, they should be fair(er) game. I don't think that this will lead to goalies getting hurt more, rather I think it will mean goalies will play the puck less. |
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2011 : 20:18:25
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This play shows what sort of player Lucic is. Not that he's gutless or anything(well, I guess he is), but lets look at the play. He bobble's the puck on the breakaway, then the only thing he can do is deliver a hit. Mind you he hit the goalie; which isn't ok,but still, this shows that the only way he can score is on tap-in passes from krejic. He can hit but he can't score, I wouldn't consider him a "skilled" player. I'd say he's best suited to be a third liner.
Oh and BTdubs that was an intentional hit, I'd suspend him
Go OILERS Go!!! |
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Guest9200
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Posted - 11/13/2011 : 20:52:51
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| What do you consider a player that lead his team in goal scorer all year, a year in which the won the cup? Unskilled? |
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Guest1426
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Posted - 11/14/2011 : 09:11:56
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| he has a f***ing concussion, so many dumbasses say that goalies should be able to get hit because they have the most gear but that gear is meant to stop pucks. There are rules against hitting the goalie so equipment manufacturers don't make their masks to withstand hits like that. lay off eh? |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 10:35:22
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quote:
Originally posted by sahis34
This play shows what sort of player Lucic is. Not that he's gutless or anything(well, I guess he is), but lets look at the play. He bobble's the puck on the breakaway, then the only thing he can do is deliver a hit. Mind you he hit the goalie; which isn't ok,but still, this shows that the only way he can score is on tap-in passes from krejic. He can hit but he can't score, I wouldn't consider him a "skilled" player. I'd say he's best suited to be a third liner.
Oh and BTdubs that was an intentional hit, I'd suspend him
Go OILERS Go!!!
WTF? He loses the puck on his breakout / breakaway chance, and therefore, because of this, he can only score on tap-ins from Krejci? He's not a skilled player? 3rd liner?
Ah...forget it. I shouldn't have to tell you how ridiculous your comments are, it's pretty clear without the explanation. 
As for the hit, if you haven't seen it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1m0qfESlTU
Lucic definitely could have avoided the contact, at least to some degree. I'm always confused by the rule here as i feel the goalie should be more fair game than the refs allow, yet apparently they're not as this sort of thing, and even lesser hits, are always called! I'd need to know the rule better, but i think it's like Beans stated, where a player has to make an attempt in a situation like this, to avoid the contact. |
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 15:00:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
quote:
Originally posted by sahis34
This play shows what sort of player Lucic is. Not that he's gutless or anything(well, I guess he is), but lets look at the play. He bobble's the puck on the breakaway, then the only thing he can do is deliver a hit. Mind you he hit the goalie; which isn't ok,but still, this shows that the only way he can score is on tap-in passes from krejic. He can hit but he can't score, I wouldn't consider him a "skilled" player. I'd say he's best suited to be a third liner.
Oh and BTdubs that was an intentional hit, I'd suspend him
Go OILERS Go!!!
WTF? He loses the puck on his breakout / breakaway chance, and therefore, because of this, he can only score on tap-ins from Krejci? He's not a skilled player? 3rd liner?
Ah...forget it. I shouldn't have to tell you how ridiculous your comments are, it's pretty clear without the explanation.
As for the hit, if you haven't seen it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1m0qfESlTU
Lucic definitely could have avoided the contact, at least to some degree. I'm always confused by the rule here as i feel the goalie should be more fair game than the refs allow, yet apparently they're not as this sort of thing, and even lesser hits, are always called! I'd need to know the rule better, but i think it's like Beans stated, where a player has to make an attempt in a situation like this, to avoid the contact.
Dude, it's an exaggeration, i'm not saying this play is completely representative of him. His size is the biggest contributing factor to his skill, he sucks on the rush, but he's good on the cycle. I'm not suggesting that they put him on the 3rd line, but there's no way you could call him an elite offensive player.
BTW I'm not sure how shanahan could say there was no intent on the play, when lucic follow-throughed with his hit. He could've moved.
Go OILERS Go!!! |
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Guest4178
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Posted - 11/14/2011 : 15:26:32
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I agree with Brendan Shanahan's interpretation of the play, for which he had this to say when supporting his decision to not give Lucic a suspension for his hit on MIller: "The minor penalty called on the ice was the correct call. And, while it's unfortunate that Miller was hurt I saw nothing egregious about this hit that would elevate it to supplemental discipline."
Most people would agree that Shanahan has been doling out some stiff suspensions this year, and most hockey people agree he's doing a good job. I think he got this one right, and while it is unfortunate that Miller was hurt, I don't think Lucic's actions (and intent) was significant enough to justify a suspension. I think Lucic could avoided contact though (for which he deserved the 2 minute penalty, and that's all), but Miller needs to accept some responsibility for leaving his crease by this distance.
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 15:55:35
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I also agree with Shanahan's assessment, as as stated, the correct call was made on the ice.
The bigger issue I have with the whole scenario, is why no one stepped up after the play and did more than play a quick game of patty cake with Lucic, and for the remainder of the game, no one on Buffalo's team stepped up to send any message. Maybe I'm reading more in to it than there is, but Miller is their key guy, and nobody does anything?
I'll give Lucic some backhanded credit for taking an opportunity to totally deflate the Sabres in one single second of contact. Questionable play? absolutely! Genius bit of strategy though, especially when no one came to Miller's aid. That sets a tone that will carry throughout the remainder of any regular season matchups, as well as any playoff considerations between these two teams, IMO.
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fanoleaf
Rookie
143 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 16:31:06
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FER is bang on in my opinion.
Goalies often come out to play the puck and many times there are collisions, sometimes injuries happen other times not. Anytime a goalie leaves the crease and in this case, he was far from home, they are accepting the risk of contact.
Could Lucic have avoided the contact, even to some degree.... I would think yes.
This is the part of hockey that I would like to see more "old school" reaction to. As FER said nobody stood up for thier goalie. There are soooo many stagged fights off the draw, but nothing after this. After the franchise goalie gets steam rolled.... come on,
I am reflecting back to what Mark Howe was saying during the interview before the HNIC game on Saturday. Basiscally it was to the tune that during his time this stuff was not tolerated by the players because you would have to answer the bell, players policed the game. I think in a case such as this, there needs to be that accountability from Millers teammates...... Just my two cents
But as far as goalies being wimps, I think Ron Hextall and Billy Smith would have something to say about that. However that was a different time |
Edited by - fanoleaf on 11/14/2011 16:36:59 |
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ToXXiK1
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
696 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 16:46:12
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| I'll never forget Hextall / Potvin fight..... Epic! |
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fanoleaf
Rookie
143 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2011 : 16:57:43
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I would have to agree about Hextall v Potvin
I don't think Ronnie realized that Potvin was a tiger.... not Felix the p**** cat |
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Guest4538
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Posted - 11/14/2011 : 22:21:14
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| Seriously! You don't think Lucic deserved a suspension! Miller is one of the best goalies in the league and Lucic deliberately smashed him. Lucic has been dirty his entire young career in the NHL. He only fights guys he knows he can cream. I would be tough too if I was 6'4" 220 lbs. How many players did he sucker punch during last year's players? At least three. Remember when Lucic tried to fight Colton Orr? He hid behind the official after Orr spent a good minute punching his head in. Doesn't look so tough now. Miller had every right to say what he did. Lucic is a piece of s***. Goalies are not trained to take hits. Nor should they be. You don't hit goalies. As for the football reference, YOU'RE ALSO NOT ALLOWED TO HIT PUNTERS OR KICKERS YOU IDIOT!!!! Miller clearly beat Lucic to the puck. Lucic didn't have his stick out to even try and handle the puck. He knew he was beat. He made no effort to slow down and then got his arms up in Miller's face! This was a missed call by Shanahan. Lucic should have gotten two games, maybe more. The NHL is sending a message to players that it's okay to cream goalies. It wasn't "minor incidental contact". Did you even watch the video? You don't get a concussion from minor incidental contact. Lucic needed to be punished for this hit. Boston seems to be getting away with this crap and it's time it stopped. The NHL blew this one! |
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Guest7792
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Posted - 11/15/2011 : 02:28:54
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| I think it is sad we rely on post game disciplinary action in these types of situations. I think it will ruin the game if we continue down this road. That scenile old bastard Don Cherry is right. Players are bigger, stronger, faster and hit harder than ever before. But we need to lose the battle armour they wear. This along with bringing back the goon. Back in the day no one f***ed with Gretzky or Roy, because if they did they would have no choice but to answer to Semenko or Nilan. Lucic is a big boy, and I am sure he could handle himself if a goon was sent after him. But I believe in an eye for an eye, so send a message and stop being a bunch of pussies waiting for Shanahan to make things all better. Go smash Thomas, and go sick your dirtiest, toughest sob on Lucic and then see if they want to continue to f*** with your goalie. |
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Guest9296
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Posted - 11/15/2011 : 04:31:29
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| Yeah Boston is getting away with a ton of S***, just ask Marc Savard. At least Miller got the two minute infraction, Savard got nothing on a career ending blind side elbow to the head from that a****** Matt cooke. |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2011 : 07:00:42
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My biggest concern is the precedent this sets. Are we going to see a rash of running the goalies now?
If all you get is a two minute minor, why the hell wouldn't you?
I suppose some may say 'integrity.'
Maybe, but not all will ever play by those rules. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2011 : 08:22:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Odin
My biggest concern is the precedent this sets. Are we going to see a rash of running the goalies now?
If all you get is a two minute minor, why the hell wouldn't you?
I suppose some may say 'integrity.'
Maybe, but not all will ever play by those rules.
I don't know what precedent has been now set that was not set before. Running the goalie has always been called as "goalie interference", which is a 2 minute minor. It has been called this way as long as I can remember. Lucic ran the goalie, and got a 2 minute minor for goalie interference. Nothing new.
This tactic has been available to teams for as long as I can remember as well - so long as you were willing to take the penalty, you could run over a goalie. As to why teams don't employ it more often, I would think it has to do with integrity of the game, respect for goalies in general, fear of taking a penalty, or fear of retribution towards your own goalie. I don't think you will suddenly see a bunch of goalie running incidents, because if it happens enough teams will start retaliating in kind. The last thing that goalies want is to suddenly become targets for things other than pucks.
As to the hit itself (I have now seen it), I don't know what would be suspendable. Lucic did not target the head, did not hit the head, and Miller had just played the puck. If Miller was not a goalie, that hit would have been absolutely fair game. Miller got hurt on the play (probably more from his helmet and head hitting the ice than from the hit itself), which is unfortunate, but it is incidental to the actual hit. So other than suspending for hitting a goalie (which would be a new precedent), what are you suspending for? |
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Guest2926
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Posted - 11/15/2011 : 08:27:43
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| Guest9296 i thought he came back after that played like 15 games then got hit again, also don't expect goalies to make it a full year anymore, goalies are free game in the nhl, Reimer and miller have been hit and hit hard without anything but a minor penalty, mark howe was right guys are just running other guys down with getting a beating from anyone. i expect to see atleast 3 more goalies taken out with a hard hit that was not needed. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2011 : 09:15:44
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Personally, I like the decision by Shanahan in this case. He is staying pretty consistent in his 'punish on the action first and the outcome second,' direction. Honestly, if Miller is not injured on the play would people still say there would be/should be a suspension?? I also think that Shanhan, in a way, is telling goalies to stay in their crease. If this was a player running roughshod over the goalie while he was in the net it might be a different story. But this wasn't. This was a goalie coming well out if his net to play the puck.
The action deemed a 2 minute penalty. Although Lucic did not let up or try to avid the hit, I don't believe the hit was malicious or had any intent to injure. Finally, I don't think this says anything about goalies being run in the future. At least not anymore than what already happens today. |
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Guest6868
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Posted - 11/15/2011 : 10:03:38
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Colin Campbell's kid plays for Boston. When was the last time someone from Boston got suspended for something that any other player in the league would have gotten at least a couple of games for.
Campbell is still Shanahan's boss. |
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Guest9803
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Posted - 11/15/2011 : 14:02:06
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I aggre, there should be a suspention there but I do also think golies are wimps. milsy did have a hit layed on him and it is good that the plarers stood up for milsy but did not need to make those comments about lucic |
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2011 : 16:35:47
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How about Miller's reaction? As a previous poster suggested, he was trying to take Lucic's head off! No harm done, but the intent was there, was it not?
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2012. |
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Sensfan101
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
500 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2011 : 17:13:39
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Trying to take Lucic's head off are you kidding me? Miller was on his *** he was reaching as high as he could and his stick made it to his knee. Trying to chop his legs off maybe.
You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take Wayne Gretzky |
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fanoleaf
Rookie
143 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2011 : 18:56:51
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I don't think that Emry was too wimpy when he took on Peters after just finishing a fight
Pattie "the nutbar" Roy I don't think could be called wimpy, I think he greatly enjoyed any and all fights he was in
As far as current players, didn't Tim Thomas lay down a big hit last year
For as many goalies that people can call wimpy, there are that many and more players that should be called wimpy as well. The Semin patty cake slap and tap come to mind first... ok maybe not as much wimpy as sissy
It is not a goalies job to be laying down the body, and as has been spoken to, the equipment they wear is not designed for contact / protection from the body contact. It is designed to protect from the puck
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Guest4538
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Posted - 11/15/2011 : 20:32:22
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| Lucic should have been given a suspension, not because he unloaded a massive body-check on a goalie 45 lbs. lighter than him (although that was gutless), but because he made no effort to slow down and got his arms up. He followed through on a body-check. He wasn't bracing himself as he claimed. Watch the replay! He got his arms up high and targeted Miller's head. He extended his arms as hard as he could as if to follow through on a check! Why does Shanahan think the helmet came off??!!! This was a blown call and there should have been a suspension. Lucic needs to get gooned. Maybe Colton Orr will beat the crap out of him again and teach him a lesson! Miller's right. Gutless punk! It's embarrassing he's Canadian! |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2011 : 22:03:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4538
As for the football reference, YOU'RE ALSO NOT ALLOWED TO HIT PUNTERS OR KICKERS YOU IDIOT!!!!
Calm down and get your facts straight! You can hit a punter or kicker in football, IF they have the ball. IF you hit them after they kick, it's a late hit and the same penalty as if you hit an RB or WR!
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
As to the hit itself (I have now seen it), I don't know what would be suspendable. Lucic did not target the head, did not hit the head, and Miller had just played the puck. If Miller was not a goalie, that hit would have been absolutely fair game. Miller got hurt on the play (probably more from his helmet and head hitting the ice than from the hit itself), which is unfortunate, but it is incidental to the actual hit. So other than suspending for hitting a goalie (which would be a new precedent), what are you suspending for?
nuxfan.....i have to disagree in a big way. While i don't know for sure if he "targetted the head", Miller did suffer a concussion AND it was NOT from his head hitting the ice! Watch the clip again, Miller's head doesn't hit the ice at ANY point! It's hard to tell if he does make contact with his head, but it looks like he does to me, and considering he has a concussion, i'm pretty sure he did (make contact with it)!!!
quote:
Originally posted by fanoleaf
As far as current players, didn't Tim Thomas lay down a big hit last year
fanoleaf, if it's the hit on Sedin you're talking about, yes, he did. THAT hit is the reason i don't like goalies getting so much protection! If a goalie's gonna be able to do that to a forward, then a forward should be able to do the same back!
The more i watch this video, the more i think Shanny should have given him at least one game, maybe 2. |
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Patchy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
529 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2011 : 12:42:06
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Goalies are at a complete disadvantage when it comes to full-body contact. Miller was taken advantage of by Lucic, where contact could have been avoided. The league is going to act mainly because elite goalies have been the ones that have gotten injured (Miller, Luongo, Reimer), there is in general a great amount of respect among professional athletes and Lucic in a way violated that code by running over Miller.
With response to the title of the thread: Goalies are not wimps in any universe! I have never played goalie in ice hockey, but I would not like to step in front of a 100mph slapshot and also be putting up with b.s. like what happened the other night in Boston. I play keeper in soccer and although it's totally different, the nature of the position is the same, which is that youre always a target out there and eventually someones going to get you.
The league is going to and should crack down on this issue because there is no need for the extra contact when injuries and moreover concussions can be avioded.
~~Go Leafs Go~~ |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2011 : 13:26:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
nuxfan.....i have to disagree in a big way. While i don't know for sure if he "targetted the head", Miller did suffer a concussion AND it was NOT from his head hitting the ice! Watch the clip again, Miller's head doesn't hit the ice at ANY point! It's hard to tell if he does make contact with his head, but it looks like he does to me, and considering he has a concussion, i'm pretty sure he did (make contact with it)!!!
I don't see it. Did not target the head, did not make initial contact with the head. The initial point of contact seems to be Lucic's shoulder with the back of Miller's shoulder.
If you look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TERA-GY2K1o, there is a slomotion replay at about the 1:10 mark. Let me know where you see Lucic clearly contact Miller's head. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2011 : 14:43:20
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
nuxfan.....i have to disagree in a big way. While i don't know for sure if he "targetted the head", Miller did suffer a concussion AND it was NOT from his head hitting the ice! Watch the clip again, Miller's head doesn't hit the ice at ANY point! It's hard to tell if he does make contact with his head, but it looks like he does to me, and considering he has a concussion, i'm pretty sure he did (make contact with it)!!!
I don't see it. Did not target the head, did not make initial contact with the head. The initial point of contact seems to be Lucic's shoulder with the back of Miller's shoulder.
If you look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TERA-GY2K1o, there is a slomotion replay at about the 1:10 mark. Let me know where you see Lucic clearly contact Miller's head.
Still hard to tell, but at the moment his helmut flies off, there could very well be contact, otherwise, his head just snapped back from impact and he lost the helmut that way? BUT, would that (the head snapping back) be enough for a concussion?
I will say, i've heard since then that he many not actually be concussed and moreso just have a stiff neck. That scenario would support the "head snap" theory.
As far as "targetting" the head, that's not easy to prove. That means, intent. Either way, i don't think Aaron Rome "targetted" Nathan Horton's head either. It's very similar in that if there was contact with Miller's, it was due to the momentum change at impact, much like Rome's hit where Horton's momentum, and the fact that he'd been hit, caused hit head to follow through and make contact with Rome. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2011 : 16:09:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Still hard to tell, but at the moment his helmut flies off, there could very well be contact, otherwise, his head just snapped back from impact and he lost the helmut that way? BUT, would that (the head snapping back) be enough for a concussion?
I believe his head just snapped back from the impact - he was not ready at all for that hit, and that would be a natural head movement if someone didn't expect an impact like that, and the mask certainly could fly off like that as well. A head snapping back like that could certainly cause concussion. |
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Guest4306
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Posted - 11/16/2011 : 19:06:12
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Miller was definitely ready for the hit, but he wasn't ready for the impact. I've watched the hit numerous times (regular speed and slo-motion), and Miller looked to be more braced for the hit than Lucic. Key point though - Lucic was still in motion (slowing down though), and Miller was stationary at the time of the hit. And an obvious point is that one player is bigger and stronger, and the other player is not quite the same in physical stature. It was a mismatch of epic proportions!
And another key point - Miller should not have engaged Lucic in his pursuit of the puck. He should have stayed in his net, or stepped back after playing the puck. But he chose to engage Lucic, either because he thought Lucic would slow down, or because he was ready or prepared for the consequences of the impact. Gutsy move on his part, but also, a huge miscalculation on his part!
And in making this point, I'm going to break PUH Forum protocol, and state that I was wrong in making my original posting. Goalies are not wimps (which was an exaggeration to begin with), so my apologies to Mrs. Miller, all hockey goalies, my nephew (who plays net), and even my indoor soccer teammate who sorta bravely plays net!
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Guest4963
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Posted - 11/17/2011 : 06:48:58
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| Miller should have done what Tim Thomas would have done; take a big fat dirty hack at the back of the legs of the next player that comes near his crease. Boston is a team of goons from goalie to center. They get away with crap all the time because they are the Stanley cup champs. This was no different. |
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Goalies are wimps! 
