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Guest4377
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 Posted - 03/13/2012 : 19:16:17
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I hear hockey fans comment about ageless players who are performing well this season like Jaromir Jagr and Teemu Selanne to name a few. Both deserve credit, but there's another player who deserves mention, but you don't hear too much about him, and that's Ray Whitney!
Whitney turns 40 this year, and he continues to roll along. He currently sits tied for 18th place in points (tied for 8th in even strength points), and his plus/minus is +24!
In points and plus/minus (both categories), he currently sits atop notable players like Gaborik, Iginla, Datsyuk, Toews, Kane, Perry to name a few. (And Selanne and Jagr too!)
If the Coyotes make the playoffs, some of the credit has to go to Ray Whitney, but at the very least, it's about time hockey fans (and commentators) take notice of Whitney and the great season he's having!
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/13/2012 : 19:57:46
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| I believe a while back we discussed Ray Whitney and just how well he's done later in his career. He's a one of a rare breed of players who actually puts up better numbers in his 30's than his 20's, even right into his late 30's as you've noted from this season! |
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2012 : 19:52:54
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| Whitney is a guy that helps me be competitive virtually every year in my hockey pool. He always seems to be a forgotten man in my pool, and I'm usually always able to get him with a mid-to-late round pick. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2012 : 06:32:52
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Definitely one of those hugely underrated guys for hockey pools, agreed. And he has been a big part of the success of the 'Yotes. Same as Doan, another ageless wonder IMHO.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2012 : 10:06:54
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The thing about Whitney that is so impressive is that it doesn't matter who his line mates are or what team he is playing on. All he does is produce points.
Every year for the past 5 years he has been taken later and later in my pool. Every year he is the top performer in the round he is taken in.
Hockey Pool Beast. |
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Guest2187
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Posted - 03/15/2012 : 12:30:34
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| Being a Yotes and Jets fan I have to ask. DO you guys believe he could be a legitimate cantidate for the heart? I know it's a stretch but talk about being valuable to your team. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2012 : 12:47:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest2187
Being a Yotes and Jets fan I have to ask. DO you guys believe he could be a legitimate cantidate for the heart? I know it's a stretch but talk about being valuable to your team.
Nope. Not only is he in a non-hockey market but it is hard to argue that he is that important to his team. Phoenix is in virtually the same position this year as they were last year. Plusl not player will win the Hart with 74 pts. If Whitney is considered for the Hart, so is Jordan Eberle.
I think the nominees this year will be Stamkos, Malkin, and Lundqvist. Maybe an outside shot for Giroux and Karlsson. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2012 : 14:27:53
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I can't see Whitney being a Hart trophy nominee. Not that he's not important to his team, but there are others that are more deserving than him.
I think this year's Hart nominees should be: Malkin, Karlsson, Giroux. But Stamkos and Lundqvist would be worthy as well, to complete Bean's list. Whitney, as good as he has been for PHX, is not in that top-5 group.
Perhaps they should introduce a new award, best "senior player", or something like that. As players play longer, there will be more of them to choose from as time goes on. If such an award existed, my nominees would be: Jagr, Selanne, Whitney. |
Edited by - nuxfan on 03/15/2012 14:28:48 |
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Guest9894
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Posted - 03/15/2012 : 21:10:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest2187
Being a Yotes and Jets fan I have to ask. DO you guys believe he could be a legitimate cantidate for the heart? I know it's a stretch but talk about being valuable to your team.
yup at close to 40 yrs old he'll soon be a cantidate for a new heart. |
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Guest2187
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Posted - 03/15/2012 : 22:40:44
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| hahahaha unreal comment! ^^ |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 08:07:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9894
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2187
Being a Yotes and Jets fan I have to ask. DO you guys believe he could be a legitimate cantidate for the heart? I know it's a stretch but talk about being valuable to your team.
yup at close to 40 yrs old he'll soon be a cantidate for a new heart.
Lol, that IS pretty funny. I hadn't even seen the mispelling of Hart when i skimmed through that post!
As far as the Hart possibilities, ZERO chance of Whitney even getting close to the ballot. There are far too many guys in similar positions as he as far as value to his team goes. Love the guy and the game he has, but Hart Trophy? No way. |
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Guest9894
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Posted - 03/16/2012 : 09:19:06
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
Perhaps they should introduce a new award, best "senior player", or something like that. As players play longer, there will be more of them to choose from as time goes on. If such an award existed, my nominees would be: Jagr, Selanne, Whitney.
I think Mr. Lidstrom and Mr. Brodeur would like to have something to say about being left off. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 10:57:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9894
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
Perhaps they should introduce a new award, best "senior player", or something like that. As players play longer, there will be more of them to choose from as time goes on. If such an award existed, my nominees would be: Jagr, Selanne, Whitney.
I think Mr. Lidstrom and Mr. Brodeur would like to have something to say about being left off.
I'll give you Lidstrom. But Brodeur this year, meh. |
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Guest4377
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Posted - 03/16/2012 : 19:41:26
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Nuxfan - did you really just put Karlsson on your list of Hart Trophy nominees, as one of the three most valuable players (to his team) in the league?
But in a separate thread about Karlsson, you barely consider him a Norris candidate?
I know the Hart and Norris are two different trophies (with different sets of criteria), but there appears to bet an incongruency to your thoughts and logic.
I think Karlsson should (and will) be on the Norris ballot, but if he makes the final three on the Hart ballot, that would be a surprise, even to me, a big supporter of how well he's played this season.
How can you be the most valuable player in the league (and to your team) when you hardly get any minutes on the penalty kill after all? :) |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 20:57:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4377
Nuxfan - did you really just put Karlsson on your list of Hart Trophy nominees, as one of the three most valuable players (to his team) in the league?
But in a separate thread about Karlsson, you barely consider him a Norris candidate?
I know the Hart and Norris are two different trophies (with different sets of criteria), but there appears to bet an incongruency to your thoughts and logic.
I think Karlsson should (and will) be on the Norris ballot, but if he makes the final three on the Hart ballot, that would be a surprise, even to me, a big supporter of how well he's played this season.
How can you be the most valuable player in the league (and to your team) when you hardly get any minutes on the penalty kill after all? :)
If recent winners are any indication, it would seem that PK time is the least of the voter's worries for the Hart.
Yes, I have Karlsson as a Hart nominee. You are correct, they are 2 different trophies, with 2 different criteria - the Norris is for all around best defenseman, the Hart is for most valuable to your team. I do not think that Karlsson is the best all around defenseman in the NHL. However, he is an awesome offensive force, and his offense, style of play, and consistency have been (one of) the biggest reasons that OTT is where they are this year. Hence the Hart nod.
It should be noted that I am often at odds with the sportswriters over Hart nominees - so the fact that I've picked him is probably his deathknell  . In recent years I feel that they've gotten away from the true spirit of the award - "most valuable to your team" - and simply give it to one of the nominees for Art Ross or Rocket Richard. Sure, high scoring = valuable, but I think they overlook players that contribute significantly to a team that otherwise would not have done well. My noms this year would be:
Malkin - with Crosby and Letang missing significant time, he pretty much carried the team on his back for much of the year.
Giroux - again, lots of big pieces missing for large chunks of the year, but he's been an offensive force all year long despite it, and has been instrumental in keeping PHI where they are this year.
Karlsson - everyone picked OTT to finish last this year, and they're now at the top of their division. Where is this team without Karlsson's (not forgetting the great year that Spezza is having) offensive output? I don't think he's a Norris candidate, but I'm in awe of what he's done offensively this year for a team that was projected to struggle.
Who are your 3 candidates?
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Edited by - nuxfan on 03/16/2012 21:12:25 |
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Guest4377
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Posted - 03/16/2012 : 21:27:31
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Well, we're getting off topic here, but in no particular order, I would pick Malkin, Giroux, Stamkos and Lundqvist as the top four candidates for the Hart.
Getting back to Whitney (the topic at hand), one could actually make a case for him being more valuable to his team than Karlsson as an example. Or what about Zach Parise, or even Jarome Iginla (if the Flames make the playoffs), it's a matter of how the voters see these players.
I'm willing to bet (any amount) that Karlsson will be on the Norris ballot, as opposed to being on the Hart ballot. If he ends up on the Hart ballot (top three), and not on the Norris ballot (top three), I would dearly love to make that bet!!
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 21:50:32
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
In recent years I feel that they've gotten away from the true spirit of the award - "most valuable to your team" - and simply give it to one of the nominees for Art Ross or Rocket Richard.
I feel it's always been this way. When, in the last 40 years was a Hart winner not in the top 5 in scoring? I can think of 1 dman (Pronger) and 2 goalies (Theodore, and Hasek twice) and that's it! I haven't checked for sure but judging by the list of winners, every other one was likely top 5. If you go 40 years back, you hit Bobby Orr, and while he was a dman, he was top 5 as well as far as i recall. Simply put, the Hart IMO, has never been awarded as it's defined!
Bottom line is, NO WAY Karlsson is even on the ballot for the Hart! Spezza's had a big year, Michalek's had a resurgence and their goaltending has been much better than expected. Too many players having good years. Compare that to Malkin with Crosby and Letang MIA for long stretches. Sure, James Neal has been good, but he can thank Malking for much of that! Giroux has made most people in Philly quickly forget Mike Richards and Jeff Carter. In NY, Lundqvist has made Brad Richards and Marion Gaborik's very "pedestrian seasons a moot point and in Tampa, Stamkos has more than double the next most goals on the team and with St Louis finally slowing down a bit (finally), Stamkos continues to put up ridiculous numbers!
My guess is Malkin beats Lundqvist and Giroux for the Hart (i think Stamkos is 4th or worse with TBay failing to reach the post season) and i'm sticking with my Weber for the Norris prediction. |
Edited by - Alex116 on 03/16/2012 22:04:19 |
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Guest4005
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Posted - 03/17/2012 : 07:10:45
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In my pool, Whitney top his round but he top all my picks despite I'm choosing him in 17th round. Okay, I'm last this year but I'm pick Perry, Kopitar, Eriksson, Kesler.
Definitely, Whitney has his best season and don't miss a thing, he's 40! |
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How about Ray Whitney! 
