| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
theraj662
Top Prospect
48 Posts |
 Posted - 05/12/2012 : 06:05:41
|
So the current CBA between the NHLPA and the owners expires Sep. 15 of this year.
Donald Fehr is the current executive director of the NHLPA right now. This is the same Donald Fehr who was exec director of the MLB Player's Association.
The NHLPA as far as they are concerned made a very smart move in getting this guy, however, I feel this is very bad for hockey.
In 1994 the NHL locked the players out for the first time, resulting in a loss of half the season. The owners later admitted they did not want to miss an entire season at the time and signed an agreement they weren't really happy with for the sake of saving the season. That 1994 CBA turned out to be very good for the players, but very bad for the NHL. That agreement destroyed financial stability and threw the competitive balance of the league right out of whack.
Soon words that were nigh on never heard before like "Small Market", became very common buzz words. Several so called "Small Market" teams could not compete financially, which led to a parade of free agents leaving SM teams to sign lucrative deals with the handful (4-5) of "Large Market" teams that had no financial boundaries and could merely outbid everyone else. Common practice was for SM teams to trade free agents during their contract year for prospects and draft picks, rather than risk keeping the player for the remainder of the season and losing him to free agency and getting nothing in return. They knew that had no hope whatsoever of resigning the player as they would get hopelessly outbid by by one of the LM teams.
What this created was several teams in a constant state of rebuilding, developing young players at the NHL level only to have them picked like choice fruit from a tree by a LM team once they became fully ripe. These teams had little hope of winning, and fans of teams in these markets had resigned themselves to thoughts of Stanly Cup contention being fantasy only. The NHL had become a league of haves and have nots.
By 2004, several teams had relocated, and several teams were on the brink of financial ruin. The 1994 CBA had turned salaries and free agency into a Wild West, the league could not sustain itself under the current CBA. It knew it was in serious trouble if it continued the way it was.
For the 2004 CBA, the league knew it was in for a long, nasty battle. The players never had it so good, and the league, in the reasons stated above, never had it so bad. While the players wanted everything to continue on the way it was in the '94 CBA, the league, now fully realizing it's mistakes from that CBA knew drastic changes had to happen for the league to remain sustainable.
In the beginning, as expected, neither side was willing to budge. The resulting impasse caused the cancellation of an entire season. The League held strong and eventually the players compromised a bit on their position and the League did too.
With the 2004 CBA which was actually ratified in 2005, the Leauge finally got it right. The concessions of the players led to a salary cap, which restored competitive balance in the league by putting all franchises on equal financial ground. Now, all 30 teams had and equal chance at signing and retaining free agents, not just the select few from the conditions of the previous CBA. Franchises once in a perpetual state of financial instability found themselves stable again. Eventually, "Small Market" and "Large Market" were once again not heard so much. Yes there are currently a few teams with financial trouble, as there always will be no matter what, but that number of teams is significantly less under the current CBA than the old one.
Teams that for years who were in a constant state of rebuilding now found themselves in a position where they could keep players and sign free agents again. Fans of those teams found restored hope and thoughts of Stanley Cup contention no longer seemed impossible. No team could simply swoop in and outbid everyone else for the top talent anymore.
Under the current CBA, the players are compensated handsomely as well, with the average player salary now being higher than what it was at the end of the old agreement in 2004. The current CBA is win-win for all parties involved.
Now, here comes the part to be afraid about. This time the NHLPA has Donald Fehr negotiating for them. The same Donald Fehr that negotiated the current CBAs in MLB going back to 1994. Look at the current state of competitive balance in MLB right now. Completely out of whack. Fans in Kansas City and Pittsburgh are accustomed to decades of rebuilding now, thoughts of World Series contention being outright ludicrous. Imagine how frustrated they must be after years of watching young prospects develop to stardom or the brink of stardom only to have the Yankees come calling. They must LOVE watching their players finish their star and hall of fame careers in other cities. Derek Jeter and Chipper Jones have played their entire careers in one city. If either of them started in Kansas City or Milwaukee, do you think they'd still be there? Milwaukee admitted they knew they had no chance resigning Prince Fielder. MLB is THE LEAGUE of haves and have nots.
Along with the competitive balance in MLB being gone, the salaries have reached the brink of the absurd. Having no salary cap has put MLB into the state it is in now, eventually the insane salaries of the players will reach the threshold of what MLB can sustain.
Be prepared for another lockout in the NHL. You know Donald Fehr is going to try and get everything for the players, a MLB type CBA, competitive balance, salary cap and financial stability be damned. The League is going to want to keep things the way they are, possibly asking for the players to take less than they are taking now. These differences have great potential to cause another huge impasse.
If Fehr gets his way, and the League concedes to his influence, look for things to return to the way they were. Look for competitive balance to be gone. Look for salaries to spiral out of control. Look for certain franchises to regress back to a state of perpetual rebuilding. Look for owners declaring certain markets are unsustainable and franchises once again relocating to "Greener Pastures". Look for the words "Small Market" and "Large Market" to be heard again. Look for the NHL to once again be divided into haves and have nots.
Yes, with Donald Fehr negotiating for the NHLPA, be afraid, be VERY afraid!
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2012 : 11:03:20
|
Hmmm, perhaps you are forgetting who is negotiating for the NHL? Look at the Mr. Bettman's track record and notice how often he has gone into a negotiation and not gotten exactly what the owners wanted. He doesn't lose. At least he hasn't to this point. He is not afraid to lock out the league and shut is down. He has done it twice.
Fuhr is a hard a$$ and I get that, but the issue is not Fuhr negotiations. It the fact that neither of these two guys know how to give up.
I don't think it will be a bad thing for the league in the long run. But I would also not be surprised to see a late start of the hockey season this fall.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
 |
|
|
theraj662
Top Prospect
48 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2012 : 15:33:39
|
I realize Bettman doesn't always get exactly what the owners want out of these CBA's, but you have to admit the League is better off as a whole with the current CBA than the '94 one.
I'm sure Bettman and the owners will like to keep things similar to how they are, while the players will be urging Fuhr to get a deal similar to '94.
Say what you want about Bettman, but the current CBA is a good thing. Maybe he didn't give the owners exactly what they wanted, but s***, you can't let the owners run wild either, that's as bad as giving everything to the players. Bettman has kept the owners in check. If the owners were given absolute free reign, they would screw the League up in ways not even imaginable. They would be bitching and crying about how the current salary structure cannot remain financially stable if it remains the way it is, then turn around and sign some 3rd liner to to $9 million a year, driving the market even higher. Then all of a sudden if 3rd liners are worth $9M, what's a 2nd liner worth? What's a 1st liner worth? Someone like Sather, who is GM for a team with unlimited money would do something like sign a 30 goal scorer to $11M. Now ALL 30 goal scorers are worth $11M. Now WTF would the market be for the 50 goal scorers?
Bettman has done a good job of keeping the owners and players in check. The salary cap is the best thing that ever happened to the League. It's win-win for the owners and players. The players now make a higher average salary than ever before, yet the owners remain financially stable and the league has competitive balance.
There is more parity now in the NHL than anytime in history. Look how many overtime and close 1 goal victories there were in the first two rounds of the playoffs this year. The playoff games for the most part have been dramatic and exciting and both teams remaining in it right down to the final buzzer.
To sum it all up, the League is better off financially, the players are getting the highest average salary ever, there is competitive balance amongst all teams and the League is at it's highest level of parity, ever.
I'm sure what Fehr will be proposing will be detrimental to the League as it exists right now should he get his demands. If he gets his way, the League will probably regress back to the way it was before the lockout.
If the league is good the way it exists now, why mess with it?
|
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2012 : 18:59:45
|
I didn't articulate my point very well. My intention to say that Bettman does get what he wants. He has won every negotiation in my opinion.
I think the owners will be looking for an NBA type cap roll back. That will be the challenge for the PA as the cap has gotten back to the point where players are making dumb money again. Rest assured the owners will also be looking for some kind of structure around long term deals and other creative ways that GM's have managed to circumvent the cap.
The players will want, well, more money.
It could be quick and painless but I doubt it.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
|
|
|
@valanche
Rookie
Canada
240 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2012 : 15:01:35
|
wow, thanks for the great read theraj662.
i started watching hockey in the mid 90's but most of this stuff was way over my head at the time.
i think personally the league is the best it has ever been.
small market and large market teams exist, canada is gaining teams from markets that aren't working, and teams like nashville and phoenix are starting to garner attention because of increased level of play.
there isn't a team in the league without a good player to see every night.
with that being said the league does look like it will have trouble in negotiations for the new CBA if the PA has gotten Fehr for what we assume to be more push from their side.
never thought i'd be cheering for bettman haha but he does need to keep the league in check because an MLB type structure to the new CBA would be the death of hockey.
hopefully no lockout but won't be surprised to see it go even longer than the NBA's did this past season.
66 is > than 99 |
|
|
|
theraj662
Top Prospect
48 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2012 : 10:52:36
|
No doubt there will be a lockout. The League is already anticipating a mid - November start at best. This mid - November scenario came up on Prime Time sports with Bob McCown.
Myself, I see the mid - November start being the best case scenario with either one or both sides giving major concession to get it done that soon.
The player's share of the revenue is currently 57%, the League wants to lower that to, according to some sources on Bob McCown, less than 50%. That is HUGE! The players have Donald Fehr who will do whatever he can to make that not happen. Gary Bettman never wants to see another CBA like the '94 agreement, and will only allow anything REMOTELY similar to that over his dead body. He wants to keep things similar to the current CBA.
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out what Fuhr is going to come to the table with, and given Bettman's stand as explained above there is going to be a major impasse. Both sides will begin negotiations with proposals that are the absolute best for their side. Then the giving and conceding process stage of the negotiations will begin, where each side states what they are willing to concede from their side in order gain something from the other side.
Given how far each side will be on Sept. 15, to think both sides can come to an agreement by mid Nov. is highly optimistic. I would say not until sometime in January if we are lucky. If they still can't agree by the end of January, it will be too late and the season will be finished.
My opinion of this whole thing is that it is bulls***. What more do the players want? They are already being compensated handsomely the way things are, how much more do they need? The average salary of an NHL player is more annually than most people will earn in a lifetime. I think they already have enough. Yes, the owners are billionaires, but the players are employees. Damn well paid employees.
They should realize how good they have it and get this lockout over sooner than later! |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2012 : 12:22:21
|
Hey tehraj, do you have a source other than the 'I pass my opinions off as facts weather you like it or not' Bob McCown. With all due respect, there are few bigger windbags in all of sport and I don't recall many if any of his predictions to actually happen.
I can't find a single report that includes anything from the NHL or NHLPA of an expected delay to the start of next season.
I do know the NHL has plans to cancel their start of the season games in Europe and some teams (SJ, EDM, VAN, CGY) who participate in late summer rookie tournaments have already cited 'logistical issues' and cancelled those activities as well. There is no doubt the NHL is preparing for the worst.
That being said, I think it is very important to take what you read about the CBA with a grain of salt. It is heavily media driven and often mountains are made out of mole hills. Fuhr has gone on record as saying the players are not prepared to give any concession regarding revenue sharing. What most media reports have missed in that statement is Fuhr adding the comment (and I quote)
'Wait a minute ... We already gave at the office. We made massive concessions last time that were designed to fix your so-called problems. If it has not fixed your so-called problems, we need to have a long, hard discussion about what those problems are and what we should do about it.
At this point, it's all propoganda and rhetoric. Anyone who has gone through any kind of CBA negotiations will tell you there are three sides to the story. The company side - the union side - and the truth, which is normally in the middle of the other two stories.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
Edited by - Beans15 on 05/18/2012 12:24:10 |
|
|
|
theraj662
Top Prospect
48 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2012 : 06:13:13
|
Actually the mid - November thing was not a quote or speculation solely from Bob himself, it was a consensus speculation from the panel that day.
There has also been talk of deadlines as well. One being Sep. 15 of course, another being Jan. 1, 2013, which is when the 2013 Winter Classic is to be held at Michigan Stadium, seating capacity 107,501.
The current speculation and consensus is that the League is not really worried about a delayed start to the season, but the League does want to salvage the Winter Classic, because of the HUGE exposure and revenue that it will generate.
Given that the League holds the WC to such high importance, the League may compromise and concede more than under normal circumstances just to save that, which would be an advantage to the Union. Should negotiations sputter and cause the WC be missed, the League will once again be in a position to play hardball, possibly withdrawing some earlier concessions and demanding more from the Union.
All consensus and speculating being put aside, it will be a VERY interesting and intriguing negotiation this time given the above mentioned circumstances! |
|
|
|
Cyclonis
Top Prospect
Canada
56 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2012 : 08:59:04
|
Fehr guys Fehr, Poor Grant Fuhr was a goalie for the Oil...  !
|
Edited by - Cyclonis on 05/25/2012 08:59:47 |
|
|
|
Guest6845
( )
|
Posted - 05/26/2012 : 08:24:00
|
When these CBAs come up for negotiation, why do the fans never get a say? We are the customers. We put money in the pockets of players and team owners alike. Without we the fans, neither of them will be drawing a paycheck.
They need to take a good look at what is in the fans' best interest. The cost of going to a game is now so high the average person can't afford to go to more than a couple of games per year. I took a look at the Sens' pricing for example. $50 each for nosebleed seats. If you want a decent seat, they're $75 each. Good seats are up over $100. $12 parking. $8 for a beer. For two people, that's easily a $150 night,or more, which not so bad once in a while, but it adds up quickly if you do this regularly.
Premier McGuinty made noises about changing allowable business deductions for sports entertainment and Eugene Melnik said it would kill the Senators franchise. Why? Because the seats are paid for by corporations, not individuals who can't afford it for the most part. Of course those tax deductions are supported by us tax payers who are also fans. So we're subsidizing companies to give us tickets we can't afford.
When you do go to a game they spend a lot of time standing around waiting for the commercials to end. A typical game takes roughly 160 minutes from start to finish. 60 of that is actual play with two 20 minute intermissions. Add another 20 minutes for normal between play stoppage and you still have 40 minutes unacounted for. These are of commercials needed to cover the teams' costs - mostly player salaries. Remember when the boards and ice were devoid of anything other than the team logo? All this advertising detracts from the game, but is necessary to pay the players.
I suggest another player pay rollback, but instead of dropping that money in the owners' pockets, use the savings to lower seat prices in the arenas. With cheaper prices, the smaller market areas could actually put more bums in seats making the franchise more viable, and that is good for the game in general. In my opinion, players' salaries have already gone past the breaking point and the whole system is working on momentum. The bubble will bust soon if it is not fixed. |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2012 : 18:35:33
|
Do you get a choice when Starbucks jacks the price of a cup of joe? Does your bank give you a call to ask you what they should set their service charges at? Does your local bar send out a survey to ask you what you think a pint of beer should cost?
The answer is no. Why? Because you are the customer and nothing more. Or opinion means nothing. Thing that is importants is exactly how much they can charge you before you stop buying. Your opinion is only important when you are no longer opening up your wallet and there is no one behind you with their cash ready.
Why do you think a hockey team should be any different? Are you commenting when Air Canada pilots go on strike and are negotiating their contract?
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Be afraid, be very afraid! 
