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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
573 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2013 :  08:11:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdkN2bEGc70

The kings go on to score two power play goals and win the game after the puck clearly hits Jeff carter. That bogus penalty probably cost san jose the game.

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5693 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2013 :  09:23:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sahis34

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdkN2bEGc70

The kings go on to score two power play goals and win the game after the puck clearly hits Jeff carter. That bogus penalty probably cost san jose the game.



HUH? Have you got another view of this you could share? I didn't see the game last night nor the highlites on tv, but this grainy youtube video you've linked doesn't show anything "clearly"!!!
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sahis34
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Canada
573 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2013 :  10:44:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
About 26 seconds, the puck flutters off the jersey, the puck starts spinning and the jersey starts fluttering.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2013 :  11:00:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sahis34

About 26 seconds, the puck flutters off the jersey, the puck starts spinning and the jersey starts fluttering.



I don't see anything fluttering off a jersey. I see a lifted puck, rolling end over end, passing by Carter on the way out of the rink. Delay of game.

Besides - penalties against don't lose games. The inability to kill off penalties against loses games. Something that VAN was killed by in their series with SJ, and something that has in turn killed SJ.

Edited by - nuxfan on 05/17/2013 11:01:08
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sahis34
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Canada
573 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2013 :  12:11:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Get some glasses it hits the jersey
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2013 :  12:35:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Before I get started, I have 20/20 vision.

What I see is this:

Vlasic shoots the puck. After shooting the puck, Carter sees teh puck coming towards him and starts trying to avoid getting hit by the puck. As he is moving around, Thornton comes out of no where and hits Carter right in the neck. Not the head, the neck. In the process the puck glances nearly undetectable against a whisker on Carter's playoff beard before it leaves the playing surface.


No penalty. Not only was the puck touched but the hit was to the neck.........



Kidding aside, I watched a pile of replays and I can't see where Carter touches the puck. Not from any angle I have seen yet.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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sahis34
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Canada
573 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2013 :  13:41:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
flutters off the jersey at the elbow area
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2013 :  14:37:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No Sashis, it hit the whisker on his playoff beard. Right near his neck.

Seriously, I get the challenge play in the NFL and even in baseball because there are gaps in the game. There is the play clock in football and the slow flow of the baseball game that allow for challenge plays. You might even get away with it in basketball based on the number of stoppages. But challenge plays in hockey are something I don't think will work because the long flow of the game between stoppages.

I also don't like reviews of penalties in any sport. Even the NFL, who pioneered the challenge process, does not allow all calls to be reviewed. In fact, there are fewer calls that can be reviewed that those that can be reviewed. I think the NHL's process of having a goal reviewable is more than plenty.

There is a purity of sport can be lost and significantly change the game, in my opinion for the worse. Part of that is reffing. I think we can all recall different situations that become historic, such as the Brett Hull skate in the crease, that make sport great. It always benefits one team and hurts the other, and, it always seems to negatively impact the team you are cheering for!

I, for one, would likely lose my interest in sports that become too robotically officiated. Tennis is an example of a sport I once enjoyed watching. Although there are other reasons why I don't watch much tennis anymore, part of the appeal was the occasional blown call. Now, with the camera system and every ball can be proven in or out the sport has lost the appeal.

Please, no challenge plays in hockey.


Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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HawkinOilCountry
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Canada
318 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2013 :  14:44:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've seen this replay so many times, and I don't see any contact with Carter. It's a crappy penalty to take with 2 minutes left, but I think the refs made the right call.

Like Nuxfan said, the penalty didn't decide the game, San Jose's PK did. Special teams are extremely important to a team's succes, and the Sharks should know that better than most teams after thier first round.
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sahis34
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Canada
573 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2013 :  15:04:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

No Sashis, it hit the whisker on his playoff beard. Right near his neck.

Seriously, I get the challenge play in the NFL and even in baseball because there are gaps in the game. There is the play clock in football and the slow flow of the baseball game that allow for challenge plays. You might even get away with it in basketball based on the number of stoppages. But challenge plays in hockey are something I don't think will work because the long flow of the game between stoppages.

I also don't like reviews of penalties in any sport. Even the NFL, who pioneered the challenge process, does not allow all calls to be reviewed. In fact, there are fewer calls that can be reviewed that those that can be reviewed. I think the NHL's process of having a goal reviewable is more than plenty.

There is a purity of sport can be lost and significantly change the game, in my opinion for the worse. Part of that is reffing. I think we can all recall different situations that become historic, such as the Brett Hull skate in the crease, that make sport great. It always benefits one team and hurts the other, and, it always seems to negatively impact the team you are cheering for!

I, for one, would likely lose my interest in sports that become too robotically officiated. Tennis is an example of a sport I once enjoyed watching. Although there are other reasons why I don't watch much tennis anymore, part of the appeal was the occasional blown call. Now, with the camera system and every ball can be proven in or out the sport has lost the appeal.

Please, no challenge plays in hockey.


Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





"part of the appeal was the occasional blown call"
I rest my case. I don't think the refs should decide a game you do. Makes sense because the slow down the game argument is absurd. It will delay the game less than the tv timeouts every single time.
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Guest7655
( )

Posted - 05/17/2013 :  15:06:51  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinOilCountry

I've seen this replay so many times, and I don't see any contact with Carter. It's a crappy penalty to take with 2 minutes left, but I think the refs made the right call.

Like Nuxfan said, the penalty didn't decide the game, San Jose's PK did. Special teams are extremely important to a team's succes, and the Sharks should know that better than most teams after thier first round.



it hits the jersey
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Alex116
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5693 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2013 :  15:08:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, i have to say that simply claiming the Sharks should have killed the penalty is a poor argument. It was a freakin' 2 man advantage for cryin' out loud!!! I actually thought that Nuxfan was kidding and relating this to the Canucks series whereby many retorts to the claims by Canucks fans gripes over the number of penalties against them was to claim they should have had a better PK!

I would be totally fine with a challenge system in the game. However, like every sport and even hockey with goal reviews, the call on the ice stands unless there is conclusive evidence to the contrary. In this case, there's no way in the world there was "conclusive" evidence that the puck hit Carter's jersey (or playoff whisker for that matter). This call would stand either way IMO.

Beans, as far as tennis goes, there's not a sport who's challenge system i like more! Considering the number of calls per match, they give them a fair number of challenges and best of all it's virtually instantaneous! Heck, the crowd always seems to love these challenges too as the points are usually so big. You often hear the "ooh's" and "aww's" from the crowd watching on the big screen!

As far as penalties in the NHL, i'd like to see major's (high sticking, head shots, boarding, etc) be reviewable, but not your standard 2 min hooking, slashing, etc calls!
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2013 :  15:42:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No Sashis, I don't think the refs should impact the outcome of the game. But I don't think the game should be so robotic that every thing a ref does is scrutinized either. Absurd?? Exactly. Thinking that a 2 min over the glass penalty should be reviewed is absurd. You nailed it pal. Right in the neck.

Everyone is talking about this play that at best is a marginal argument of making contact with Carter. But the point that it was a 2 man advantage is moot. Maybe the SJ player who was originally penalized should not have done what they did?? Perhaps if that didn't happen then Vlasic's penalty wouldn't have been a 2 man disadvantages and we wouldn't be having this argument.

The refs did not lose this game for SJ. They did that on their own. If you want to review every call a ref makes, you are seriously discussing something that, in my opinion, would completely ruin the game.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5693 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2013 :  16:42:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

If you want to review every call a ref makes, you are seriously discussing something that, in my opinion, would completely ruin the game.






Couldn't agree more, however his suggestion was a "challenge rule" and as has always been discussed, it wouldn't allow for "every call a ref makes" to be challenged.

I still don't think this call would have been overturned, or at least, i don't see conclusive evidence from this video, but i would have no problem with this being reviewable if the coach had a "challenge" left to use (depending on how many they got to begin with, he may have already used up his?). Again, i think it'd have been wasted in this case as i don't see the same "flutter" of the jersey that Sahis does. This rule really is nonsense anyway (the delay of game one) and ought to be left up to a ref's discretion.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2013 :  16:45:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm still looking to see this impact with Carter's jersey. Nothing conclusive in any way.

Sahis - you might be thinking it hit his jersey because the puck is going end-over-end into the seats. There is certainly a possibility that it hit it, but no angle shows any obvious contact that I can see. Certainly nothing that the ref could reliably use for a call during the game.

Ergo, delay of game, 2 minute minor.
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Guest9848
( )

Posted - 05/17/2013 :  18:27:21  Reply with Quote
Puck is not flipping, something happens to puck to make it start flipping mid flight.
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Guest9848
( )

Posted - 05/17/2013 :  18:33:22  Reply with Quote
it dosnt even just hit his jersey it hits his whole arm
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3562 Posts

Posted - 05/18/2013 :  01:12:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9848

Puck is not flipping, something happens to puck to make it start flipping mid flight.



mid flight? The puck is already over the glass at "mid flight". Its barely off Vlasic's stick when it passes Carter.

Regardless, its flipping as soon as leaves Vlasic's stick. You can clearly see on the first slo-mo replay that he gets his blade underneath it. By the time it gets to Carter its halfway through its first end-over-end, and continues onwards after it passes Carter.

quote:

it dosnt even just hit his jersey it hits his whole arm



So the puck hits Carter's arm fully, but magically stays on the same trajectory and doesn't change direction?
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Oilearl
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
265 Posts

Posted - 05/18/2013 :  06:58:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree that this call would not be changed on reveiw. If they were to give the challenge option, I would be ok with them getting one per game the same as the time out. Referees do make questionable calls and it would be good to be able to reverse a bad call.

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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
573 Posts

Posted - 05/18/2013 :  08:38:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

No Sashis, I don't think the refs should impact the outcome of the game. But I don't think the game should be so robotic that every thing a ref does is scrutinized either. Absurd?? Exactly. Thinking that a 2 min over the glass penalty should be reviewed is absurd. You nailed it pal. Right in the neck.

Everyone is talking about this play that at best is a marginal argument of making contact with Carter. But the point that it was a 2 man advantage is moot. Maybe the SJ player who was originally penalized should not have done what they did?? Perhaps if that didn't happen then Vlasic's penalty wouldn't have been a 2 man disadvantages and we wouldn't be having this argument.

The refs did not lose this game for SJ. They did that on their own. If you want to review every call a ref makes, you are seriously discussing something that, in my opinion, would completely ruin the game.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





I dont, I want one challenge rule per game
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mandree888
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Canada
334 Posts

Posted - 05/18/2013 :  13:10:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i also am no agains the challenge. and here is how i think it should as to not disrupt the game.

coach challanges a ref call. it goes"upstairs" for review
while under review play continues at full strength if "upsatirs" the penatly is confirmed play stops imidiatly and penalty is handed out.
if no penatly play continues as normal.
time limit on review 3 minutes so "upstairs" has 3 minutes to confirm wither or not he penalty will happen. also i agree with one per game per team
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
809 Posts

Posted - 05/18/2013 :  13:18:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mandree888

i also am no agains the challenge. and here is how i think it should as to not disrupt the game.

coach challanges a ref call. it goes"upstairs" for review
while under review play continues at full strength if "upsatirs" the penatly is confirmed play stops imidiatly and penalty is handed out.
if no penatly play continues as normal.
time limit on review 3 minutes so "upstairs" has 3 minutes to confirm wither or not he penalty will happen. also i agree with one per game per team



Possibly the worst idea I have heard about anything said by anyone in my entire life. I cannot conceive that anyone in the know would ever consider this concept. I hope to hell, Mandree, that you thought of this yourself, and that it is not actually a possibility.

The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2014.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5693 Posts

Posted - 05/18/2013 :  14:52:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by OILINONTARIO

quote:
Originally posted by mandree888

i also am no agains the challenge. and here is how i think it should as to not disrupt the game.

coach challanges a ref call. it goes"upstairs" for review
while under review play continues at full strength if "upsatirs" the penatly is confirmed play stops imidiatly and penalty is handed out.
if no penatly play continues as normal.
time limit on review 3 minutes so "upstairs" has 3 minutes to confirm wither or not he penalty will happen. also i agree with one per game per team



Possibly the worst idea I have heard about anything said by anyone in my entire life. I cannot conceive that anyone in the know would ever consider this concept. I hope to hell, Mandree, that you thought of this yourself, and that it is not actually a possibility.

The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2014.



Wow Oil, tell us how you really feel! Lol.

I don't like that idea either personally, but i'm not gonna go off saying it's the worst idea in the history of mankind, or whatever it was you said!!! Mandree, i think the problem with that is quite obvious. There's far too much that could happen as they "play on". What if the other team scores? Does the goal stand? Cuz if the penalty is then called, chances are the other team wouldn't have gotten that scoring chance and put one on the board! Or is it like a disputed goal where the play is allowed to continue and upon review they realize a goal was scored and they go back to that point in the game? What if the team who's going to get the power play after review scores during "play on"? Do they get that goal AND a PP?

Don't like the idea, but surely i've heard worse ideas in my life.
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Guest9848
( )

Posted - 05/18/2013 :  16:28:10  Reply with Quote
Nuxfan is an absolute tool and clearly is just bitter that the sharks crushed his team
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sahis34
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Canada
573 Posts

Posted - 05/18/2013 :  19:03:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think we can all agree that tennis is better with the challenge rule. The only argument against it in hockey is the delays which slow the game down. Other things slow the game down too, the one I have a major beef with is high sticking. I think having the eye-hand coordination to knock down a puck is a skilled play and doesnt warrant a stop in play. The rule is completely irrational and slows the game down more than the challenge rule would.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4516 Posts

Posted - 05/18/2013 :  20:41:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans, in my opinion, you have "jumped the shark" with your comment that, in your opinion, the game is better off with the occasional blown call, and that you otherwise wouldn't watch.

I think this statement speaks for itself. You have OFFICIALLY gone on record that you will not watch hockey anymore if the rules become fairer and less arbitrary, being able to be reviewed.

Of course tennis and the NFL are better for their challenges and play reviews . . .

As would be the NHL.













"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5693 Posts

Posted - 05/18/2013 :  21:02:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9848

Nuxfan is an absolute tool and clearly is just bitter that the sharks crushed his team



Does that make me a "bitter tool" as well, cuz i sure as hell don't see an obvious deflection off Carter. FYI, i'm cheering for the Sharks so careful what you claim.
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Guest4409
( )

Posted - 05/18/2013 :  23:09:37  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sahis34

I think we can all agree that tennis is better with the challenge rule. The only argument against it in hockey is the delays which slow the game down. Other things slow the game down too, the one I have a major beef with is high sticking. I think having the eye-hand coordination to knock down a puck is a skilled play and doesnt warrant a stop in play. The rule is completely irrational and slows the game down more than the challenge rule would.



The intent of the rule is to prevent players from dangerously swinging their sticks at pucks and hitting someone in the face.
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
573 Posts

Posted - 05/19/2013 :  00:02:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4409

quote:
Originally posted by sahis34

I think we can all agree that tennis is better with the challenge rule. The only argument against it in hockey is the delays which slow the game down. Other things slow the game down too, the one I have a major beef with is high sticking. I think having the eye-hand coordination to knock down a puck is a skilled play and doesnt warrant a stop in play. The rule is completely irrational and slows the game down more than the challenge rule would.



The intent of the rule is to prevent players from dangerously swinging their sticks at pucks and hitting someone in the face.

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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
573 Posts

Posted - 05/19/2013 :  00:10:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4409

quote:
Originally posted by sahis34

I think we can all agree that tennis is better with the challenge rule. The only argument against it in hockey is the delays which slow the game down. Other things slow the game down too, the one I have a major beef with is high sticking. I think having the eye-hand coordination to knock down a puck is a skilled play and doesnt warrant a stop in play. The rule is completely irrational and slows the game down more than the challenge rule would.



The intent of the rule is to prevent players from dangerously swinging their sticks at pucks and hitting someone in the face.



Well there's still a high sticking penalty to deter recklessness. Plus with a lot of high sticks no one else is in the vicinity so there's no danger of being hit with a stick. Some discretion should be put into the rule, its a blanket rule just like no touch icing, it creates whistles completely irrelevant to the purpose of the rule.
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
334 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2013 :  09:59:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
yes Oil,i did think of it myself..... it was the only thing i could think of that would"keep the pace of the game" and allow the challenge rule. and yes alex all of those would happen. ecept the taking away of a goal. that is the game anything can happen. all i am saying is IF the league decide to add a challenge rule i would hope it something that alows the flow of the game to continue while they are deliberating on the challenge

Edited by - mandree888 on 05/20/2013 10:25:53
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2240 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2013 :  11:56:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
pesonally i'm for the challenge rule the game has become simply to fast for refs to call in real time.

however I do agree with many of the points made and without proper restrictions, obviously watching Torts throw out challenge flags onto the ice just so he can unload on the refs every 5 minutes would be terrible for the game,

how i would do it (keep in mind this is off the top of my head so it's not fully thought throug)

Coachs may Challenge hi sticking, holding the stick, closeing a hand on the puck, goaltender interference and delay of game penalties only. delay of game including diving and shooting the puck over the glass.

The coach cannot challenge any linesman issue like offside or throwing a center out of the faceoff circle.

A new penalty cannot result from the review only a penalty given may be removed,

if the coach challenges a penalty and is wrong the team will be issued a 2 min delay of game penalty

Challenges are reviewed by a third party (toronto)

Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
573 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2013 :  20:26:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7

pesonally i'm for the challenge rule the game has become simply to fast for refs to call in real time.

however I do agree with many of the points made and without proper restrictions, obviously watching Torts throw out challenge flags onto the ice just so he can unload on the refs every 5 minutes would be terrible for the game,

how i would do it (keep in mind this is off the top of my head so it's not fully thought throug)

Coachs may Challenge hi sticking, holding the stick, closeing a hand on the puck, goaltender interference and delay of game penalties only. delay of game including diving and shooting the puck over the glass.

The coach cannot challenge any linesman issue like offside or throwing a center out of the faceoff circle.

A new penalty cannot result from the review only a penalty given may be removed,

if the coach challenges a penalty and is wrong the team will be issued a 2 min delay of game penalty

Challenges are reviewed by a third party (toronto)

Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?




Why not offsides, its a black and white rule so the reviews would be short, on the way offside play which lead to the duchene goal ther challenge rule was needed. I think there should still b a limit to the number of challenge rules, maybe you can just give a delay of game penalty when your challenge is conclusively wrong
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2013 :  07:42:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

Beans, in my opinion, you have "jumped the shark" with your comment that, in your opinion, the game is better off with the occasional blown call, and that you otherwise wouldn't watch.

I think this statement speaks for itself. You have OFFICIALLY gone on record that you will not watch hockey anymore if the rules become fairer and less arbitrary, being able to be reviewed.

Of course tennis and the NFL are better for their challenges and play reviews . . .

As would be the NHL.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug




If you want to put words in my mouth, that is fine. My exact statement was:

"I, for one, would likely lose my interest in sports that became too robotically officiated...........Part of the appeal to tennis was the occasional blown call."

What you heard was:

" you will not watch hockey anymore if the rules become fairer and less arbitrary, being able to be reviewed."


There is a massive difference between the statements but you can think or read or see anything you want. I couldn't care less about your OFFICIAL this or that crap. Because that is exactly what it is.


I, for one, think that instant replay in the NFL was better before the coach's challenge. I don't think the coach's challenge changes anything in the game enough to warrent the time. I don't think the coach's challenge has done more harm than good in regards to the fan's enjoyment of momentum swings in games.

As far as tennis goes, I enjoyed watching a guy like Johnny Mac lose his marbles after a call. It was pure entertainment to me. And I would bet large sums of money that if he was asked how many matches he lost because of an umpire he would likely say none. Blown calls rarely impact the outcome of a match.

I think the NHL has it right today. I have no beef with replays on goals. But as far as coach's challenges, I don't like the idea. I think it might work ok in the NFL or tennis or even baseball because of the amount of stoppaged in the game. Even considering the TV timeouts and other stuff, the game of hockey has far too much flow to have effective challenges.

If anyone will allow me to have an opinion, I will have that one please. If I have to follow the masses or be told dumb crap like OFFICIALLY this or that, you can shove your comments up your.......

Is it ok for me to have an opinion???




Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
573 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2013 :  08:49:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

quote:
Originally posted by slozo

Beans, in my opinion, you have "jumped the shark" with your comment that, in your opinion, the game is better off with the occasional blown call, and that you otherwise wouldn't watch.

I think this statement speaks for itself. You have OFFICIALLY gone on record that you will not watch hockey anymore if the rules become fairer and less arbitrary, being able to be reviewed.

Of course tennis and the NFL are better for their challenges and play reviews . . .

As would be the NHL.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug




If you want to put words in my mouth, that is fine. My exact statement was:

"I, for one, would likely lose my interest in sports that became too robotically officiated...........Part of the appeal to tennis was the occasional blown call."

What you heard was:

" you will not watch hockey anymore if the rules become fairer and less arbitrary, being able to be reviewed."


There is a massive difference between the statements but you can think or read or see anything you want. I couldn't care less about your OFFICIAL this or that crap. Because that is exactly what it is.


I, for one, think that instant replay in the NFL was better before the coach's challenge. I don't think the coach's challenge changes anything in the game enough to warrent the time. I don't think the coach's challenge has done more harm than good in regards to the fan's enjoyment of momentum swings in games.

As far as tennis goes, I enjoyed watching a guy like Johnny Mac lose his marbles after a call. It was pure entertainment to me. And I would bet large sums of money that if he was asked how many matches he lost because of an umpire he would likely say none. Blown calls rarely impact the outcome of a match.

I think the NHL has it right today. I have no beef with replays on goals. But as far as coach's challenges, I don't like the idea. I think it might work ok in the NFL or tennis or even baseball because of the amount of stoppaged in the game. Even considering the TV timeouts and other stuff, the game of hockey has far too much flow to have effective challenges.

If anyone will allow me to have an opinion, I will have that one please. If I have to follow the masses or be told dumb crap like OFFICIALLY this or that, you can shove your comments up your.......

Is it ok for me to have an opinion???




Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





go watch basketball if you wanna see a spectacle sport, sure it would be more entertaining if maggie the monkey was referee, but I rather see the game refereed the best they possibly can
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2013 :  09:16:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I never said I wanted the reffing to become crappy! WTF?? Are people serious that stupid???? Wait, I forgot this is coming from the guy who said a hit to the neck is different from a head shot. Perhaps you received too many hits to the neck as a child or something.

Geez. Why is it so ridiculous to think that the NHL doesn't need a challenge system??

If you want to watch a robotically controlled environment where nothing ever goes wrong, watch a game of pong or watch a game of chess between Deep Blue and Deep Thought. I'll keep the NHL as it is, where people are involved and sometimes things don't work out perfectly.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
809 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2013 :  12:35:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Agree with Beans 100% here.

Like it or not, the dynamics of the game are affected by the discretion of the referees. The players and coaches are aware that the fast-paced action is a difficult thing to hold under a microscope, and I think most would agree that the officials do a pretty good job, and would rather continue the status quo than slow the game down with challenges.

Not sure if there has been a poll of NHL players regarding this subject, but I am pretty confident that most would oppose the challenge rule.

As far as fans of the game, count me in as one against.

The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2014.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5693 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2013 :  12:40:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oil, i'd take that bet. I'm pretty sure the majority of players and coaches would love to have the challenge option. Too many have been screwed over the years with bad calls that lead to goals and or losses, be it an embellished highstick that lead to a PP goal or a bad delay of game call where the puck actually deflected, etc.

I'm all for everyone having their own opinion and i commend you and Beans for stating your own which would seem to differ from the masses. However, i ask you both this.....Is the game not better with video replay of goals as we have today, as compared to without it? Is this not too "robotic" for your guys thinking?
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
809 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2013 :  13:11:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The game has been great for decades. As far as video reviews for goals, I could take them or leave them. The game has changed for the better with embellishment calls, the extra ref, and emphasis on the intolerance of obstruction. What is the next logical step? Keep the game the way it is right now. It ain't broke.

The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2014.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2013 :  13:42:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't have an issue with the goal review because it's at a natural pause in the game. That said, I also agree with Oil. I could take them or leave them. I don't think the goal standing or being reverse often has an impact on the outcome of the game.

Does anyone have any info on how often a video review, in any league, changes the actual call by the official?? The only information I can find was the coach's challenge rates from 2008. That information shows that less than 40% of the coach's challenges resulted in a reversal and only 11 of the 30 NFL teams had greater than a 50% success rate in their challenge flags.


I would rather see momentum and great sports action than guys wearing hoods and looking at cameras only to uphold the call 63% of the time.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5693 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2013 :  21:28:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

I don't have an issue with the goal review because it's at a natural pause in the game. That said, I also agree with Oil. I could take them or leave them. I don't think the goal standing or being reverse often has an impact on the outcome of the game.



How is it that a goal review is "a natural pause" in the game? It takes much longer than just lining up for a faceoff, not to mention the ones that are called no goal, play continues and then they go back and look! What's the difference if it's a 5 min major and a game that they review??? The same "natural pause" occurs (a face off) does it not???

Also, i don't have stats on goal's standing or being reversed, but with technology today, is it not wise to review anyway? I mean, all it takes is one missed call on a goal being allowed or disallowed to cost a team a game which could cost said team a win, a playoff spot, home ice, a series, a cup, etc! I say use the resources available to you, within reason.
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