Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Search
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?
 All Forums
 Hockey Forums
Allow Anonymous Posting forum... General Hockey Chat
 Bryan Bickell Contract Value Allow Anonymous Users Reply to This Topic...
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2278 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2013 :  10:36:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Most who have been following the playoffs have seen Bryan Bickell emerge as a solid power forward playing with grit size and a very good scoring touch around the net. Bickell made a pro rated 600 000$ this year which is quite the bargin even before he emerged in the playoffs.

July 1rst Bickell becomes a UFA and is due for a raise but how much?

I have this feeling some GM is going to go out and overpay huge for Bickell in the offseason and be sadley disapointed. Bickell has put up respectable numbers and has the size and plays with enough of an edge that he would be a valuable addition to any third line and even see time infront of the net on the powerplay. He also skates well for a big man.

He is the kind of player a lot of teams may be looking for including my Habs he would look great on a third line with Brandon Prust. I just can see some GM seeing a 30 goal scorer in him and handing win something obserd like 4.5 million for 4 years,

any thoughts?

Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8186 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2013 :  11:25:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Two words - Fernando Pisani

The Oilers forward scored 14 goals(including 5 game winners) in the playoff run of 06. Following that season he received a 4 yr-$10 million deal and went on to score 38 goals in 211 games in the next 4 seasons. Granted, the guy was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis that kept him out of games for long periods of time and made it hard for him to maintain his fitness. Regardless, I can't think of a better example to comapare to Bryan Bickell.

Bickell will get a raise, no doubt about it. But I think a few things will happen. Firstly, Chicago will resign him. He likes it there and they like him there. Secondly, he is not anything more than 3rd line player on any team in the NHL and will be paid accordingly.

I see $2-$2.5 million but on a bit of a longer term deal. Anything more than that will not only surprise me but also tell me that the GM's in the NHL are getting worse at financially managing their rosters and not better.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!


Edited by - Beans15 on 06/18/2013 11:26:23
Go to Top of Page

Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2278 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2013 :  11:55:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I forgot all about Pisani! great comparison

see i could see Bickell getting Brandon Prust Money like you said 4 year 2.5 million (which i think was a little much for Prust)

I agree I think it would be wise for Bickell to stay in Chi Town, he seems to have a good thing going and he gets lots of playing time along side true top 6 forwards it seems like a good situation for him.

Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?
Go to Top of Page

Guest5052
( )

Posted - 06/18/2013 :  12:26:07  Reply with Quote
Im not saying Bickell is any of these players, but for example Ladd, Byfuglien and Versteeg were all parts of 3rd and 4th line players on Chi taht won the cup and they got big contracts elsewhere... and for the most part lived up to them.

I do agree that the Pisani comparison is apt as to the dangers of such signings, although i seem to recall him having colitis so maybe thats an unforeseable variable to that comparison.

I think if he goes to open market he might get 3 - 3.5 million per year for 3 years. Time will tell if he lives up to it.

Have to say, he's looked good though.
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8186 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2013 :  12:48:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think the difference is that Ladd, Versteeg, and Byfuglien were all legit 2nd line or better players on a team incredibly deep in skill positions.

Look honestly at Bickell and then think about how many teams in the NHL he would actually be a legit 2nd line player.

That said, I don't think $3-$3.5 would be crazy if he goes to a different team. I still see him signing in CHI for a discount.

I'm calling a $11.25 mil over 5 yrs but without a no trade clause.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1905 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2013 :  13:29:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

I think the difference is that Ladd, Versteeg, and Byfuglien were all legit 2nd line or better players on a team incredibly deep in skill positions.

Look honestly at Bickell and then think about how many teams in the NHL he would actually be a legit 2nd line player.

That said, I don't think $3-$3.5 would be crazy if he goes to a different team. I still see him signing in CHI for a discount.

I'm calling a $11.25 mil over 5 yrs but without a no trade clause.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!



Question, do you see this years Chicago team any less deep than the one who won the cup the years that those 3 players were considered legit 2nd line players. Bickell will likely sign in Chicago, but if he doesn't another team will give him a look in the top 6, based on this post season. I see 4-5 teams that would take the chance. He reminds me of Fransen in Detroit and that experiment worked out well for a few years.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8186 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2013 :  14:33:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To answer the question, this Chicago team is not nearly as deep as the team that won the Cup. The differences are clear when you look at the two rosters. Just a few players that made a big difference for Chicago would be Brouwer, Byfuglien, Sopel, Boynton, Ladd, Eager, Versteeg, Madden, and Kopecky. Did I say a few, sorry. That's 9 players from that Cup winning team that are not there any more. I would be hard pressed to think their replacements of today outshine what those guys brought to that team. Maybe in a few spots but overall, nope. That Chicago team was wicked awesome (Boston put intended).

Again, you say there are teams that might put Bickell in their top 6?? Name them. I'm intersted to here who these team are.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

Go to Top of Page

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3592 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2013 :  14:50:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm not sure there will be too many teams overpaying huge - with a reduced cap, those days are mostly behind us.

But with size and apparent skill, he will get a lot of interest and will certainly command a good raise. As for local comparisons, I see a Jannik Hansen with more size, or perhaps a Chris Higgins. Hansen plays a similar role on the 3rd line with VAN, and plays a reasonably physical game while providing a decent amount of offensive upside. Higgins has size and speed, and can play comfortably on the second or 3rd line, again chipping in with a decent amount of offense.

Hansen makes 1.6M, Higgins is at 2.5M. I think fair value for Bickell would be in the 2-2.5M/season range. Bean's 5yr/11M contract would be fair value. That being said, I could see offers in the 3M range coming in from teams desperate for his size (ie, VAN).
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5800 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2013 :  15:36:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think he'll cash in for upwards of 3mil per, be it in Chi or elsewhere, with "elsewhere" possibly fetching more?

Beans, i agree that other CHI team was deep, but it's hard to compare these extra players really. Easy to say now that Ladd, Eager and Brouwer, etc (not to mention Campbell) were big parts but keep in mind what guys like Bickell, Stalberg, Frolik, Saad, Handzus, Shaw, Oduya, etc are doing this year. I'd say they were prob a bit deeper last time around, but IMO, it's at least close!
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1905 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2013 :  15:42:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

I think he'll cash in for upwards of 3mil per, be it in Chi or elsewhere, with "elsewhere" possibly fetching more?

Beans, i agree that other CHI team was deep, but it's hard to compare these extra players really. Easy to say now that Ladd, Eager and Brouwer, etc (not to mention Campbell) were big parts but keep in mind what guys like Bickell, Stalberg, Frolik, Saad, Handzus, Shaw, Oduya, etc are doing this year. I'd say they were prob a bit deeper last time around, but IMO, it's at least close!


Thats all I meant! You have a large number of then younger players playing now, very close to the point in there career you would consider prime. Before during there other cup run, they would have been considered very young and inexperienced at that point in there careers. I'd take this years Chicago over the team that shocked us all with a Stanley Cup. The Stanely Cup hasn't been awarded yet folks and Chicago can win 3 more. My money is on Boston BTW.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1905 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2013 :  15:52:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15



Again, you say there are teams that might put Bickell in their top 6?? Name them. I'm interested to here who these team are.




Just spitballing, Philly, Calgary, Tampa, Ottawa, Florida are the 1st five I can think of, but then again the list is probably bigger. I think the big man with scoring touch experiment is something that has been tried an true for a few years now and I think people are saying for a guy his size he skates better than most his size. Park a big man in front of the net with playmakers around him and watch the pucks bounce in off him. Buff in Winnipeg is a guy Chicago last tried that with and if I remember that worked out well.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Go to Top of Page

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3592 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2013 :  17:58:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

I think he'll cash in for upwards of 3mil per, be it in Chi or elsewhere, with "elsewhere" possibly fetching more?



CHI will have a hard time paying him 3M per year and keeping their roster as-is. They are facing some cap woes themselves:

current cap space: 2M, 2 players to sign
cap space next summer: 21M, 13 players to sign

- to sign this summer: Kruger, Leddy (RFA), Stalberg, Bickell (UFA)
- to sign next summer: Frolik, Shaw, Smith (RFA), Hjalmarsson, Crawford (UFA)
- to sign summer after that: Saad (RFA)

I suppose they'll have to decide how much they need a Bickell, vs some of the other players on their roster.
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5800 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2013 :  00:08:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If i'm Chi, i don't overpay AND i expect a discount! If i'm another GM, i set my limit and don't go over it and likely don't get him because some WILL overpay! Just not proven enough for me! Prove me wrong, fine! Until then, i wouldn't be opening the chequebook to this kid just yet.

I really think he'll stay in Chi where he's comfortable....
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8186 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2013 :  07:32:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Alex:

I look at the players today and the players from their Cup team and it's no contest. I take the Cup winning roster everyday ending in Y. That was before you included Campbell on the back end and let's not forget Niemi was the goalie.

Sorry friends, it's not even close.


Joshua, I think you are arguing for the sake of arguing. Bickell's a left winger so let's do this positionally. I'll name the players likely to be the 1st and 2nd line LWer's on the teams you listed. Tell me who you replace with Bickell:

Calgary - Hudler or Glencross
Tampa - Malone or Pouliot (you might have a point with TB)
Ottawa - Michalek or Greening (maybe Latendresse if healthy)
Philly - Schenn, Hartnell, Gagne, Fedotenko (seriously, you said Philly??)
Florida - Fleishman, Huberdeau, Versteeg


C'mon pal. I get you are trying to make your point but he is simply not a 2nd line player. He is a fantastic 3rd line guy who is a 'threat' to score. He does not have scoring touch. He has 40 goals in 220 reg season games and only one cracked more than 10 goals. In the playoffs 12 goals in 35 games (8 in this years playoffs).




Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

Go to Top of Page

Guest5052
( )

Posted - 06/19/2013 :  07:59:24  Reply with Quote
Its a good point about the Hawls depth, but I wonder a little bit how much of that is revisionist or how much that will impact Bickell's potential suitors.

I took a quick look back at the Hawks cup run and the players listed above by someone all had pretty non descript point totals (yes I know points arent everything.... Bickell would say that too). Versteeg seemed to have good second line numbers and Ladd... maybe, but Byfuglien or Brouwer didnt have better stats than Bickell and post cup Buff's an NHL all star. Bolland too came alive in the playoffs.

My point that I am trying to make is that I wouldnt truly have appreciated the depth of that Hawks team, or more accurately that the depth players they had could take on leading roles. I am a Jets fan and never saw Ladd as a point a game player, certainly not from his time in Chicago.

Bickell may benefit from those predecessors is all i am saying.

And despite the cap being reduced, with record viewers, i think the cap will go back up, or at least GMs will hedge on that and guys like Bickell might be the benefactors of that.

If Bickell stays he'll have to take a cut, but the more i think about it, here's a guy who needs a big pay day and some team will overpay.
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1905 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2013 :  07:59:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Alex:

I look at the players today and the players from their Cup team and it's no contest. I take the Cup winning roster everyday ending in Y. That was before you included Campbell on the back end and let's not forget Niemi was the goalie.

Sorry friends, it's not even close.


Joshua, I think you are arguing for the sake of arguing. Bickell's a left winger so let's do this positionally. I'll name the players likely to be the 1st and 2nd line LWer's on the teams you listed. Tell me who you replace with Bickell:

Calgary - Hudler or Glencross
Tampa - Malone or Pouliot (you might have a point with TB)
Ottawa - Michalek or Greening (maybe Latendresse if healthy)
Philly - Schenn, Hartnell, Gagne, Fedotenko (seriously, you said Philly??)
Florida - Fleishman, Huberdeau, Versteeg


C'mon pal. I get you are trying to make your point but he is simply not a 2nd line player. He is a fantastic 3rd line guy who is a 'threat' to score. He does not have scoring touch. He has 40 goals in 220 reg season games and only one cracked more than 10 goals. In the playoffs 12 goals in 35 games (8 in this years playoffs).




Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!



Of those players listed how many have the size you mentioned, the post season credentials, amassed 23 points from the 3rd line last year. Bickell is a 3-4 year player coming into his prime who is, again getting 3rd line minutes. I say a team takes a chance on him.

You listed a few player you thought were better but most didn't have the ppg Bickell has from the 3rd line and all of those are getting top 6 minutes. Calgary he would be an upgrade on Glencross, Ottawa he would be of the ilk of Greening, Michalek is suffering knee issues and may never return to form, you cant be serious on Tampa's Malone and Pouloit as a upgrade here, Florida of the group you suggested has room in there top 6, Philly will be looking to add to there top 6 after Breire is bought out.

All I am trying to say is fantastic 3rd line players on cup winning team generally get a big payday when another team thinks they can hit paydirt by moving them to a top 6 role. Hell he is only 3-4 years in the league, if he is progressing in his career and having the impact he is having now, he should be given the shot at top 6 if he signs elsewhere.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "

Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 06/19/2013 08:18:02
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8186 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2013 :  09:28:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Are you insane?? Seriously dude, you're killing me.

Curtis Glencross had 15 goals and 26 pts last season. His past 5 seasons are 15, 26, 24, 15, and 13 goals. He is 3 years older than Bickell and smallers but to say Bickell would be an upgrade on Glencross is completely absurd. I'm not even going to bother getting into the rest becuase it's a waste of time.

He is a fantastic 3rd line player. But how does that make him have a 'scoring touch' and become a solid 2nd line player ahead of proven talent??

What a joke. I'm done wasting my time. You are arguing for the sake of arguing but bringing nothing valuable to the conversation.



Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1905 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2013 :  11:59:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Are you insane?? Seriously dude, you're killing me.

Curtis Glencross had 15 goals and 26 pts last season. His past 5 seasons are 15, 26, 24, 15, and 13 goals. He is 3 years older than Bickell and smallers but to say Bickell would be an upgrade on Glencross is completely absurd. I'm not even going to bother getting into the rest becuase it's a waste of time.

He is a fantastic 3rd line player. But how does that make him have a 'scoring touch' and become a solid 2nd line player ahead of proven talent??

What a joke. I'm done wasting my time. You are arguing for the sake of arguing but bringing nothing valuable to the conversation.



Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





I am equally frustrated with your arguement for the sake of being right. I am not saying your wrong and I am right but you are again being rude, which is normal for you. So what your saying is an older player playing with top 6 minutes isnt comparable to a younger guy on the 3rd line with similar stats who is having an impact right now in the post season, is larger playing with less minutes. I have watched Glencross play and he is ok for top 6 in Calgary, but do you think he gets top 6 minutes in Chicago. Or do you think he gets put ahead on the roster if he was in Chicago, more than Bickell. My thoughts are Glencross gets lost on Chicago's roster which is way deeper than Calgary.

But if you just want to throw out stats from apples to oranges, rather than argue potential and not consider anothers opinion, why dont we just agree to disagree, again!

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1905 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2013 :  15:40:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=674608&navid=nhl:topheads

I put a link up to Bickells blog for the playoffs. He is playing now on the top line with Kane and Toews. I know that traditionally he is not in the top 6, but in the biggest games in this post season, he is drawing top line minutes in the stanely cup final. Hope you see why I think that is why I think he will be getting top 6 next year, if not in Chicago, somewhere with lessor depth.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8186 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2013 :  07:55:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And sometimes the top line is Toews, Hossa, and Saad. Sometimes is Toews, Hossa, and Sharp. Sometimes it's even Toews, Hossa, and Kane.

What's your point? Players get on hot streaks and they move up and down the roster. Does that prove anything at all?? Nope. It's proves nothing.

Frankly, there is no chance that Bickell is a consistent 2nd line player anywhere. I get that in some cases we argue matters of opinion but in this case, you're simply wrong. Do you notice how few people are jumping on your bandwagon?? Trust me, every time someone has a chance to disagree with me on this site, they do. No one has supported your side on this at all. No one ever supports my side so that is no surprise. But every tiem someone can jump all over one of my opinions, they do. Not this time. Yours is not the popular opinion.

Bickell is a fatastic 3rd line player. He might be one of the top guys at what he does. When I think of him I see guys like Boyle in NY and Shawn Thornton in Bos. Big an tough guys that can skate and hit. They are also guys that can fill in gaps in the line above them when needed. But that doesn't mean he is more than that. He is not a guy with 'score touch' he is a guy on a hot streak. He will get $2-$2.5 million if he stays with Chicago and $3-$3.5 million if he tests free agency.

That's not even 2nd line money.



Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1905 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2013 :  09:57:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

And sometimes the top line is Toews, Hossa, and Saad. Sometimes is Toews, Hossa, and Sharp. Sometimes it's even Toews, Hossa, and Kane.

What's your point? Players get on hot streaks and they move up and down the roster. Does that prove anything at all?? Nope. It's proves nothing.

Frankly, there is no chance that Bickell is a consistent 2nd line player anywhere. I get that in some cases we argue matters of opinion but in this case, you're simply wrong. Do you notice how few people are jumping on your bandwagon?? Trust me, every time someone has a chance to disagree with me on this site, they do. No one has supported your side on this at all. No one ever supports my side so that is no surprise. But every tiem someone can jump all over one of my opinions, they do. Not this time. Yours is not the popular opinion.

Bickell is a fatastic 3rd line player. He might be one of the top guys at what he does. When I think of him I see guys like Boyle in NY and Shawn Thornton in Bos. Big an tough guys that can skate and hit. They are also guys that can fill in gaps in the line above them when needed. But that doesn't mean he is more than that. He is not a guy with 'score touch' he is a guy on a hot streak. He will get $2-$2.5 million if he stays with Chicago and $3-$3.5 million if he tests free agency.

That's not even 2nd line money.



Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!



Your right about people jumping on your opinions every once in a while, but its usually because of how you approach a difference of opinion, rather than what the difference of opinion is. I wasn't trying to be difficult, but I do think Bickell if signed elsewhere will get the chance to move to the top 6 based on his hot streak, size, speed, skills and last years ppg. Doesn't hurt that he is playing right now in the top 6 of a very talented team in the cup final. Your right about his value at $2.5-$3.5 mill multi year contract, depending on where he signs and the length of contract.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "

Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 06/21/2013 09:58:51
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5800 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2013 :  11:15:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've stayed out of it moreso because i really don't know what to expect from him. I'd lean towards Beans' side of the argument however, only because Bickell's in his late 20's and has a career best 17G / 37 Pts season. Apart from that year, he's never reached double digits in goals. That's why in my earlier post i said if i were a gm i'd prob set my limit, make him an offer, and prob not get him as someone will likely overpay!

Can he be a second liner somewhere? Sure, never say never. But a betting man prob wouldn't wager on it.
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1905 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2013 :  08:09:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://www.nhl.com/ice/blogpost.htm?id=18623

I didn't know where else to post this link, but it seems fitting to put it here with regards to the begging Bickell question. He is relishing in his role on the top line against the other best team in the league in the finals and is being asked to be the guy who gets to wear down Chara, not a role I would want to play. At the end of the day, where ever he ends up next year, I would want this guy on my team. He reminds me of a larger Chris Neil, a glue guy who you can send out against the toughest competition. Every game after this post started Bickell has been the catalyst of a scoring drive or 2, a few decent hits per game while playing against the toughest competition and he is excelling. If I am wrong about this guy earning a chance in the top 6, I am ok with that, but I still think he has the potential.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1905 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2013 :  08:23:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

I've stayed out of it moreso because i really don't know what to expect from him. I'd lean towards Beans' side of the argument however, only because Bickell's in his late 20's and has a career best 17G / 37 Pts season. Apart from that year, he's never reached double digits in goals. That's why in my earlier post i said if i were a gm i'd prob set my limit, make him an offer, and prob not get him as someone will likely overpay!

Can he be a second liner somewhere? Sure, never say never. But a betting man prob wouldn't wager on it.



Hadn't realized Bickell was 27 when this post started, but he was a rookie in 2009/2010 and has played mostly 3rd and 4th line minutes to this point in his career. 37 points and 17 goals 20 assist from a 3rd/4th line player in his first full year in the NHL 78 games, isn't bad. The big thing about him is his elevated stats in the post season which are over 4 NHL seasons, where he pulls in .61 ppg career average this year at .7 ppg. When the post season starts he is 25% better stats wise than the regular season. He is a big game player.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5800 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2013 :  10:22:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
When the post season starts he is 25% better stats wise than the regular season. He is a big game player.





So, what you're saying is, the LEAFS Oilers need not go after this guy seeing as they don't play post season hockey.
Sorry Beans, some Leaf jokes just don't work anymore.
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1905 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2013 :  12:21:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Oilers are lacking this type of player, but Beans is right he would never get top 6 minutes in Edmonton. Too many offensively talented small guys, with injury history in the top 6 of Edmonton. They usually take the big bodied players and toss them around the untalented bottom 6 and say they can't produce. Wonder if Edmonton could use a power forward?

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "

Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 06/22/2013 12:22:19
Go to Top of Page

Guest4472
( )

Posted - 06/22/2013 :  18:58:36  Reply with Quote
I disagree. This is exactly the type of player the Oilers need as a top six forward. You can't win with your top two lines all smallish players.

The question is whether Bickell's post-season performance is a blip or not.

Doesn't matter to him and his contract value. He's a UFA coming off a great post-season, and almost regardless of his past performance, history has shown that GM's will overpay.

If he really really likes Chicago and wants to stay in Chicago, they can probably keep him at $2.5 million a year for four years.

But if Bickell wants the money, some team will probably offer him $14-16 million over four years, or something like that.

Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8186 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2013 :  09:03:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
$14-$16 million over 4 years?? Seriously, did you just type that??

Wow. That must mean Ales Hemsky is worth around $15 million a season and Hall and Eberele will get $25 million a season.


I Bickell is exactly what he is. Specifically to Joshua, no one is arguing is not a good hockey player. He might be the best 3rd line player in the NHL today. But that doesn't make him a legit 2nd line player.

Back to the guest. Below are the likely top 2 lines in Edmonton next year. Who do you drop to the 3rd line for Bickell??

Eberle - RNH - Hall
Yakupov - Gagner - Hemsky


Who do you drop??

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

Go to Top of Page

Guest5052
( )

Posted - 06/24/2013 :  09:16:19  Reply with Quote
actually those lines cry out for someone like Bickell.

Now, Im not sold on Bickell all that much, but somelike him, meaning a big, mean player who can drive the net, make space and chip in a decent amount of goals. If you think that Bickell might be that guy, then you might not think that those top two lines are tough enough to play againts and would rather have him in there.

Individually I agree, all are better players than Bickell, but he might be a better fit, he might be a litle cheaper which might allow for upgrades elsewhere, (3rd or 4th line or at D).

If I am the Oilers, I would think about a roster change up that would add grit to those top two lines, especially of I wanted some more immediate success.

Finally, I kind agree that Bickell may well be over valued right now and some GM will over pay, but thats kinda the point. I do think he'll land $3-3.5m somehwere and that is second line money on most teams.
Go to Top of Page

@valanche
Rookie



Canada
240 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2013 :  09:18:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I could see Bickell looking good in the top 6 playing with Landeskog and O'reilly.
That being said I still don't thinks he's worth anymore than $2.5 per@ 3 years max.

To answer the question I do think this Chicago team is better than the 2010 version.
Although 2010 was slightly deeper I think the development of the core players is the biggest difference. Toews some would say has been shut down but I argue the opposite; he has been a focal point for teams and normally this frustrates a player beyond belief (see Crosby). Toees however is a completely selfless team player and instead opens things up for Patty Kane, Bickell, Seabrook, Keith, etc.

66 is > than 99

Edited by - @valanche on 06/24/2013 09:21:00
Go to Top of Page

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3592 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2013 :  09:22:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

$14-$16 million over 4 years?? Seriously, did you just type that??

Wow. That must mean Ales Hemsky is worth around $15 million a season and Hall and Eberele will get $25 million a season.


I Bickell is exactly what he is. Specifically to Joshua, no one is arguing is not a good hockey player. He might be the best 3rd line player in the NHL today. But that doesn't make him a legit 2nd line player.

Back to the guest. Below are the likely top 2 lines in Edmonton next year. Who do you drop to the 3rd line for Bickell??

Eberle - RNH - Hall
Yakupov - Gagner - Hemsky


Who do you drop??

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





IMO, you don't drop any of them - you trade one of them away for another top-6 forward and a legit top-2 dman. But thats probably another thread.

sadly, I think that guest is correct - if he gets to UFA status, some team out there is going to offer Bickell absurd (for him) money. He's had a good run this season and in the playoffs at exactly the right time, and should be able to parlay that success into a bigger deal than he's worth. The NHL is full of contracts like that - for example, Horcoff. I see some team going 4M per year for 3-4 years - which is above his value for sure.

Any team that Bickell goes to is going to give him a shot in a more offensive role, which means top-6. It will be up to him to prove that he can do it - perhaps he does turn into a legit top line guy, perhaps he doesn't.
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8186 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2013 :  09:57:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't disagree that the Oilers (among other teams, they are just the example I used) need bigger forwards. But big skilled fowards are not the same as big grinding forwards. I get that Bickell can score, but does he outscore or out produce Ales Hemsky?? Does a like of Yakupov/Gagner/Bickell produce more than Yakupov/Gagner/Hemsky?? I don't think so.


Now, add Bobby Ryan, Milan Lucic, or a Staal to that line and it will most certainly produce more.

I still think Bickell re-signs in Chicago and will be for less than $3 million/season on a 4 yr deal WITHOUT a no trade clause. There will always be a few GM's out there who are completely crazy and will sign players to dumb contract. That said, the cap is dropping and GM's have to be able to manage that.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1905 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2013 :  13:42:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey Bean's remember when you said no one was coming to my defense of Bickell being top 6. I stepped away for 2 days and thats what happened. Whats funny is I used Bickell in Edmonton, not needed there in the top 6 sarcastically. Oiler's are an example of a team which could use size/grit in its top 6, but historically misuses players like Bickell, while drastically needing them. Of the players you mentioned, you don't drop anybody, but I don't think either RNH or Hemsky will be an Oiler thru the offseason, which will leave an opening for an audition in the top 6.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1905 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2013 :  13:48:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

I don't disagree that the Oilers (among other teams, they are just the example I used) need bigger forwards. But big skilled fowards are not the same as big grinding forwards. I get that Bickell can score, but does he outscore or out produce Ales Hemsky?? Does a like of Yakupov/Gagner/Bickell produce more than Yakupov/Gagner/Hemsky?? I don't think so.



Yes, I think it does. Hemsky is barely better in stats now, does not crash the net or physically intimidate players. These skill Bickell has will open up the ice for Yakupov and Gagner. Its truthfully not a fair comparison as Hemsky hasn't been able to compete a full season for a while and is a fragile older player. I will give you Hemsky is much better with the puck.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1905 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2013 :  13:50:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

I don't disagree that the Oilers (among other teams, they are just the example I used) need bigger forwards. But big skilled fowards are not the same as big grinding forwards. I get that Bickell can score, but does he outscore or out produce Ales Hemsky?? Does a like of Yakupov/Gagner/Bickell produce more than Yakupov/Gagner/Hemsky?? I don't think so.



Yes, I think it does. Hemsky at .5 ppg is barely better in stats for the last 2 years, does not crash the net or physically intimidate players. These skill Bickell has will open up the ice for Yakupov and Gagner. Its truthfully not a fair comparison as Hemsky hasn't been able to compete a full season for a while and is a fragile older player. I will give you Hemsky is much better with the puck.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5800 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2013 :  14:07:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
Of the players you mentioned, you don't drop anybody, but I don't think either RNH or Hemsky will be an Oiler thru the offseason, which will leave an opening for an audition in the top 6.



Wow....personally i don't see RNH going ANYWHERE! They'd have to get a really nice return to consider trading their #1 center, even if he had a rough go last year.

I don't think it will happen, but i think it'd be really interesting to see Bickell there in place of Hemsky. I think Hemsky will be traded this offseason to open up a spot for a more physical top 6 guy and while Ryan, Staal or Lucic would be better, i don't think those guys are gonna end up there (Ryan's a possibility i guess?).

Again, i fully expect someone to offer Bickell what i'd consider "too much", but i think his decision will be based on a cup win or loss. If they win, i say he chases the money. If Boston comes back to win, i say he signs for a discount in Chi-town and figures it's worth sticking with a team that is that close to a cup. I guess what could throw a wrench into things would be if another top contender, like Pittsburgh, were to enter the mix with a big dollar offer, then he might consider a move where the money is better AND there's a good shot at winning!
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1905 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2013 :  14:15:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think RNH had an off year in Edmonton last year. If you were in the building hearing the boo's at his play, even when he wasn't doing anything wrong, you might understand. Whitney got the same treatment last year. If he comes back from whatever was ailing him and his play has improved, all is forgiven, but if he continues like his play from last year, I expect him gone. He just seemed off. for whatever reason.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Go to Top of Page

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3592 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2013 :  17:38:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
If he comes back from whatever was ailing him and his play has improved, all is forgiven, but if he continues like his play from last year, I expect him gone. He just seemed off. for whatever reason.



I suspect that the "whatever reason" is tied to the offseason shoulder surgery that he received. It was widely speculated that he was injured for much of last year, and it seemed to be the case. I don't think 48 injury-riddled games where his performance was sub-par is going to suddenly cause EDM to think about moving him. Too much talent there.

But back to Bickell.

quote:

Hey Bean's remember when you said no one was coming to my defense of Bickell being top 6. I stepped away for 2 days and thats what happened



I think you should re-read some of those comments Joshua. I see a lot of "EDM could really use a top-6 forward with size", but I don't see a lot of "Bickell is a top-6 forward with size". There is a difference.

I reiterate again - Bickell will almost certainly be given a chance to fill a top-6 role next year, with CHI or otherwise. Whether or not he is successful in that role on a regular basis is up for debate.
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1905 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2013 :  19:35:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I did reread the posts and a lot of them said he was top 6 legit possible. Still think he is the type of player Edmonton needs in the top 6.

This being from you, Nuxfan Any team that Bickell goes to is going to give him a shot in a more offensive role, which means top-6. It will be up to him to prove that he can do it - perhaps he does turn into a legit top line guy, perhaps he doesn't.

@valanche I could see Bickell looking good in the top 6 playing with Landeskog and O'reilly.

Guest 5052 If you think that Bickell might be that guy, then you might not think that those top two lines are tough enough to play againts and would rather have him in there. Individually I agree, all are better players than Bickell, but he might be a better fit, he might be a litle cheaper which might allow for upgrades elsewhere, (3rd or 4th line or at D).

Alex116 I don't think it will happen, but i think it'd be really interesting to see Bickell there in place of Hemsky.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "

Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 06/24/2013 19:37:08
Go to Top of Page

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3592 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2013 :  21:22:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

I did reread the posts and a lot of them said he was top 6 legit possible. Still think he is the type of player Edmonton needs in the top 6.

This being from you, Nuxfan Any team that Bickell goes to is going to give him a shot in a more offensive role, which means top-6. It will be up to him to prove that he can do it - perhaps he does turn into a legit top line guy, perhaps he doesn't.

@valanche I could see Bickell looking good in the top 6 playing with Landeskog and O'reilly.

Guest 5052 If you think that Bickell might be that guy, then you might not think that those top two lines are tough enough to play againts and would rather have him in there. Individually I agree, all are better players than Bickell, but he might be a better fit, he might be a litle cheaper which might allow for upgrades elsewhere, (3rd or 4th line or at D).

Alex116 I don't think it will happen, but i think it'd be really interesting to see Bickell there in place of Hemsky.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "



Yes - "he will be given a shot", "he needs to prove he can do it", " don't think it will happen, but..." These are not ringing endorsements of Bickell as a current top-6 forward on any roster.

Of course he'll be given a shot. Nearly every player that shows some scoring prowess gets a shot, and Bickell will be no different for whatever team gets him. That is a far cry from proclaiming him a legitimate top-6 forward, today.
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5800 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2013 :  22:50:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Chemistry and linemates are very key here. Let's face it, Bickell puts up far better numbers with Kane and Toews as his linemates. Heck, I coulda got that game tying goal tonight with a feed like he got from Captain Serious! He's basically taken advantage of a situation (a very good one) that he's been thrown into. Much like Anson Carter did back when he teamed up with the Sedins. Was Anson Carter a top 6 guy on all the teams back then? Probably not, but he played his way onto the top line on a pretty good Vancouver team at the time!

Will Bickell, if he leave Chicago, find consistent time on a teams top 6? Like most others, I think he'll be given the chance, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him back on the 3rd line for the most part.
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
Jump To:
Snitz Forums 2000 Go To Top Of Page