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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3581 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2014 :  17:33:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

Wow....The US was clearly uninterested in fighting for a bronze today. Obviously a very emotional let down after yesterday's loss to Canada. I can imagine it's difficult to get up for a game like this where you're playing for 3rd though.



It would be difficult, but I think CAN would get up for it more than the US did, they looked very uninterested in the game. Where was the offensive powerhouse when it mattered the most? Where was Phil the Thrill? Boatloads of goals against "powerhouses" Slovenia and Slovakia, then nothing when it counted the most. Back to back shutouts, who would have predicted?

quote:

Nice to see Teemu get another medal! Finland would have been a tough final for Canada I'm sure especially with Rask back in net.



Rask was in net when CAN played them in the round robin, but that was a tough game, and I agree it would have been tough again. SWE is completely unknown, I didn't see any of their earlier games. From what I can tell, they had a relatively easy path to the finals as well, a tight game vs SUI and Rask-less FIN in the semis being their only challenges. I'm hoping CAN can take advantage of that tomorrow.

quote:

Lastly, I wonder if the US is regretting any of their decisions such as Orpik / Martin over Yandle, either/both Johnson's? Even Trouba would have looked good out there, albeit very young! Watch for him in Korea if the NHL ends up sending their players which looks doubtful at this time. He's one of the better young dmen, along with the obvious, Seth Jones.



There will no doubt be lots of second guessing across the board. I don't know if there is really anything the US could have done differently. Its not like they were a bad team, they just came up against a Canadian team that played as close to a perfect defensive game as I've ever seen. They're defense played well enough in that game, only 1 goal against. Single game elimination tournaments are full of surprises.

I agree though, in 4 years time the US will have lots of other options that were not available this year.
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
914 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2014 :  07:41:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Anyone have the full list of the players named to all Olympic team? I read that Price was named top goaltender, Karlsson top defensemen, and Selanne MVP.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2014 :  09:02:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The individual positional awards went like this:

Individual Awards as selected by the tournament directorate
Best Goalkeeper: Carey Price, Canada
Best Defenceman: Karlsson, Sweden
Best Forward: Kessel, USA

All-Star Team as selected by the media
Goalkeeper: Henrik Lundqvist, Sweden
Defenceman: Karlsson, Sweden
Defenceman: Drew Doughty, Canada
Forward: Teemu Selanne, Finland
Forward: Kessel, USA
Forward: Mikael Granlund, Finland

Tournament MVP went to Finlandís Teemu Selanne.

Source: http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/23/karlsson-kessel-highlight-olympic-all-star-team/
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



714 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2014 :  12:39:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

Wow....The US was clearly uninterested in fighting for a bronze today. Obviously a very emotional let down after yesterday's loss to Canada. I can imagine it's difficult to get up for a game like this where you're playing for 3rd though.



It would be difficult, but I think CAN would get up for it more than the US did, they looked very uninterested in the game. Where was the offensive powerhouse when it mattered the most? Where was Phil the Thrill? Boatloads of goals against "powerhouses" Slovenia and Slovakia, then nothing when it counted the most. Back to back shutouts, who would have predicted?

quote:

Nice to see Teemu get another medal! Finland would have been a tough final for Canada I'm sure especially with Rask back in net.



Rask was in net when CAN played them in the round robin, but that was a tough game, and I agree it would have been tough again. SWE is completely unknown, I didn't see any of their earlier games. From what I can tell, they had a relatively easy path to the finals as well, a tight game vs SUI and Rask-less FIN in the semis being their only challenges. I'm hoping CAN can take advantage of that tomorrow.

quote:

Lastly, I wonder if the US is regretting any of their decisions such as Orpik / Martin over Yandle, either/both Johnson's? Even Trouba would have looked good out there, albeit very young! Watch for him in Korea if the NHL ends up sending their players which looks doubtful at this time. He's one of the better young dmen, along with the obvious, Seth Jones.



There will no doubt be lots of second guessing across the board. I don't know if there is really anything the US could have done differently. Its not like they were a bad team, they just came up against a Canadian team that played as close to a perfect defensive game as I've ever seen. They're defense played well enough in that game, only 1 goal against. Single game elimination tournaments are full of surprises.

I agree though, in 4 years time the US will have lots of other options that were not available this year.




Phil Kessel was shut down by the tournaments best team and one of the better defense we ever seen. That game against Canada was the only one that mattered and nobody could score against them. Kessel was actually one of the few that created some scoring opportunities.

All credit to team Canada. As for the bronze medal game, come on that doesn't count, nobody from the american team wanted to play that game.

Remember 98 in Nagano, Canada did the same, they didn't care for bronze after losing a heartbreaker in the semi. Those powerhouse teams are not built to fight for bronze, they only play for gold.

As for Finland would have gave a tough challenge for Canada, I agree, but the way Canada was playing in the semi and in the final, it would have not mattered. They were clearly the strongest team there and like many great teams of the past, they only got better and better every game. Man did they ever shut down the opposition, 3 goals against in 6 games. Unreal.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2014 :  20:15:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Leafs81......very valid points regarding Phil Kessel. I completely nix anything I saw in the bronze medal game. While it's not necessarily right, I agree that the US "mailed it in" vs Finland and didn't care about ANYTHING but gold and avenging the 2010 loss to Canada. I think weighing more on their minds too was the fact that unlike 2010, they really were outclassed vs Canada regardless of the close score. They are probably kicking themselves for having what amounts to a bad game, regardless of how good Canada played.

As for Kessel, I also agree that Canada did well to shut him down. The argument would be that if you truly are one of the greats, you find a way to score, win, created, etc? That, in a way, is hogwash! You can easily write it off to a bad game by Phil and these things happen, just ask Sid. If those two teams played a best of 7 (US / Can), I'm pretty sure Phil would show up on the score sheet. Simply put, the US couldn't muster a whole lot on the day and it's not fair to any of them to change an opinion on them over that one match!

Going back to the awards, I'm confused how Kessel and Karlsson won top forward and dman AND were named all stars, but Price won top goalie and wasn't an all star??? HUH? Oh, and I think Rask ought to have been the other goalie, if not the #1 (even over Price) considering the team in front of him (compared to what Price had). I still think Finland's in the final had Rask not gotten sick, even though Lehtonen played a good game!
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3581 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2014 :  22:23:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Leafs81
All credit to team Canada. As for the bronze medal game, come on that doesn't count, nobody from the american team wanted to play that game.

Remember 98 in Nagano, Canada did the same, they didn't care for bronze after losing a heartbreaker in the semi. Those powerhouse teams are not built to fight for bronze, they only play for gold.



So its OK that they didn't play for a medal that they could have (probably should have) won? Mail it in, because they are only built to win gold? Only play well in the games that you want to play in?

Just because Canada did it in 98 does not mean its acceptable. I don't recall anyone cutting Canada slack back then.

quote:

As for Finland would have gave a tough challenge for Canada, I agree, but the way Canada was playing in the semi and in the final, it would have not mattered. They were clearly the strongest team there and like many great teams of the past, they only got better and better every game. Man did they ever shut down the opposition, 3 goals against in 6 games. Unreal.



Hard to say. I thought FIN actually played CAN the way an opponent should play them. They are tough as nails and use their physicality a lot. They create turnovers and create chances for themselves, and frustrate opponents. Like CAN, they are comfortable playing with 1 goal leads, and have a solid defensive core. Had they played them that way again, it might have been a different outcome. But it would have been a low scoring affair to be sure.

We all talk about the powerhouses of CAN, US, RUS, SWE... but FIN is a surprisingly steady team - 3 bronze and a silver in their last 5 Olympics, only missing the podium once in 2002.
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



714 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2014 :  15:26:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Finland is a solid team and I will not argue with you. But they are not the Win Gold type team and they will fight hard even in a Bronze, because they still need to prove to the world that they are with the big clubs. I would agree that Finland had a better stay in the Olympics, since the NHL is there, then the Russian team and the Finns are slowly climbing while Russia are slowly declining. Canada, Sweden and USA all had stronger teams and outcomes overall with NHL players.

Also the 3 bronze medals for Finland proves my point that some team just doesn't care for the Bronze medal. Finland does, but USA, Canada and probably Russia doesn't care. And you know what, these athletes are use to go for the go for the championship or go home. Once they lose in the semis, well that's it, they just want to go home and focus on their next task which is their NHL team.

IMO bronze medal game in hockey is pointless. But I understand that in the Olympics they need it.


Edited by - Leafs81 on 02/24/2014 15:29:36
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2014 :  23:15:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A lot of sports used to have two bronze winners (some may still do so?). I'm guessing some NHL owners / GM's would prefer this rather than have their stars exposed to injury for yet another game?

I'd prefer they play for it though, rather than having 2 given out.

Nuxfan, I get what you're saying and it's not technically "right" for a team like the USA to "not care" about the bronze, but in this case, it's human nature. I don't think "not caring" is really the right phrase either, I just think that losing their chance at the gold is such a letdown that it's psychologically tough to get up for that next game. The minute they got down a couple goals, it was all but over.
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Guest8846
( )

Posted - 02/25/2014 :  08:47:03  Reply with Quote
Heh every1. Heh mon from Jamaica . Congratulations to team Canada,and yes, Carey price made more of a believer out of me.

I missed the USA game, en-route here. Caught the Canada vs Sweden game. I've never sees ANY team Canada dominate another another hockey powerhouse ....as Canada did over Sweden in the 2nd and 3rd periods of that game, it was unbelievable ....no contest.king henrick was amazing.......I can't remember Carey price having to make one big save in the last 2 periods.....I've never seen such utter dominance in a gold medal game.
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1037 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2014 :  08:48:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Guest 8846 was me....forgot to log in
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1037 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2014 :  09:01:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nuxfan...you asked, where was Phil the Thrill ?
I think he did ok

Some could ask, where was Sidney Crosby ?...but I wouldn't ask that because he is the best player in the world, even though he didn't score.......remember nuxfan, Canada played weak teams too, not just the USA

Phil kessel did score and was named top forward.....and you still ask....where was Phil the thrill ??.....this just tells me what I always said, it doesn't matter what kessel does, in some people eyes he is not a star player.

Fact is....kessel is not a star...he is a superstar...and getting better.
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
914 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2014 :  09:18:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Where in Jamaica are you Duke? I'm going in April.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2014 :  14:34:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Some could ask, where was Sidney Crosby ?...but I wouldn't ask that because he is the best player in the world, even though he didn't score.......


Did they not show the GOLD medal game in Jamaica mon?
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1037 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2014 :  14:56:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm in Montego Bay Ryan. Grand rose hall. Beautiful place, people are friendly and the food is great....great service and plenty of booze
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1037 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2014 :  15:02:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Alex, please don't turn what I wrote into a Sidney Crosby debate.....did u read what I wrote ???.....the part where I wrote....Sidney Crosby is the greatest player in the world ???....guess u missed that part heh ?

As usual, I was just responding to another shot at kessel by a poster here, nothing new.....same ole, same ole.....no respect for kessel again

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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2014 :  22:09:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Alex, please don't turn what I wrote into a Sidney Crosby debate.....did u read what I wrote ???.....the part where I wrote....Sidney Crosby is the greatest player in the world ???....guess u missed that part heh ?

As usual, I was just responding to another shot at kessel by a poster here, nothing new.....same ole, same ole.....no respect for kessel again





Duke....

I have no idea how what I said can be taken as an attempt to turn this into a Crosby debate so i'll write it off to too much Jamaican rum and/or too many Red Stripes?

To answer your question, which to be honest I shouldn't have to considering I quoted the exact part of your quote you choose to question, YES, I did read what you wrote! Do you think I just randomly chose a couple of lines of your post and quoted them without reading them??? WTF?

Unless I misunderstood what you said, I do believe you said Sidney Crosby is the greatest hockey player in the world and also added that "even though he didn't score.....". Well, at that point in time, I, in an attempt at friendly ribbing, pointed out that he did in fact score by asking whether or not the Gold Medal game was televised where you were staying in Jamaica.

I re-read your post thinking that maybe you were referring to the Canada / US game, but when you pointed out that Canada played some weak teams, I concluded that you meant the entire tournament.

I know you were directing your Kessel insecurities at nuxfan, but maybe you should ease up on that end of things. He was after all, making a valid point (Kessel loaded up during the less important games and came up empty when it mattered most). Some of you Leaf fans are so quick to complain about ANY criticism thrown the Leafs way. If you think that nuxfan pointing out Kessel's lack of production when it counted most is bad, just be thankful the Leafs never got Luongo!!! It's all I ever hear about him and he not only won gold (twice, but once as a starter) but came within 1 win of a Stanley Cup.

Anyway, if you read the comments I made earlier, I wasn't harsh on Kessel at all, but that's another matter.

Like I said, internet chatter is often misinterpreted and maybe one or both of us is guilty of that here? Regardless, enjoy the rest of your trip and have a safe trip home.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3581 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2014 :  09:03:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
If you think that nuxfan pointing out Kessel's lack of production when it counted most is bad, just be thankful the Leafs never got Luongo!!! It's all I ever hear about him and he not only won gold (twice, but once as a starter) but came within 1 win of a Stanley Cup.



This is in fact the crux of my argument. When Leaf fans criticize the Sedin's, or Luongo, or the Canucks in general, the #1 argument against them being true greats is that they haven't produced enough when it counted the most. If you think it is a valid argument for them, why is it not a valid argument for Kessel?

For the record, Kessel is a great player. I still don't think he's worth 8M a year, but the fact that he seems to have become a consistent producer in the NHL is no small feat. I have him in 3 of my 4 pools this year because he can produce points, and I'm happy to see him do well.

I would not touch him in a playoff pool though.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2014 :  09:40:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
I would not touch him in a playoff pool though.



Even in a box style with Tanev, Bertuzzi, Boyle and Rinaldo?

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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1037 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2014 :  13:22:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nuxfan, you say you wouldn't touch kessel in a playoff pool. He did have 6 points against Boston in 7 games during last years playoff round . ( 4 goals ). No easy feat playing the whole series against Chara

In memory serves me correctly, the last 7 game series the Canucks played Boston ....1 sedin had 1 point and the other had 3 points.....now that's a lack of production.
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1037 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2014 :  13:27:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Forgot to add, regarding kessels lack of production against team Canada......was there anyone in Russia who had success against team Canada ??

Wasn't Canada's last 2 games team shutouts ?
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3581 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2014 :  13:02:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Nuxfan, you say you wouldn't touch kessel in a playoff pool. He did have 6 points against Boston in 7 games during last years playoff round . ( 4 goals ). No easy feat playing the whole series against Chara

In memory serves me correctly, the last 7 game series the Canucks played Boston ....1 sedin had 1 point and the other had 3 points.....now that's a lack of production.



He did have 6 points in that first round. I just don't expect TOR to go any further than the first round.

If memory serves me correctly, the Sedin's had more than 20 points each during the 2011 playoff run. Whats your point again?
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1037 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2014 :  05:29:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
They were a total bust in the most important series....that's all
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