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tbar
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
376 Posts |
 Posted - 01/03/2008 : 07:51:58
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If these two were both coming out of junors as healthy 18 year old kids i think you have to go with good old Mario. Probably doesnt skate as well wich is rather important in todays game but hes to big and strong to take the puck from him without takeing a chessy penalty. Also if you look back at Gretz's career how many of his goals were shots on the ice from everywhere? And good old mario has a real goal scorers touch. Gretzkys goals wouldnt go in for him in todays game goaltending is to good. I know your probably all gona disagree but I would take Mario over Gretz.
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2008 : 09:16:12
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It is a tougher choice than one might think. If you are looking for pure goal scoring, Mario is definately the way to go. However, with the rule structures today about hooking/holding/obstruction, etc, Gretzky would have a lot of room to operate. His set up skills would be just as good as they were in the 80's.
So if you have a guy like Heatley or Ovechkin on your team, I would want Gretzky.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2008 : 09:16:14
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Mario.
But then I'd take Mario in any era over Gretzky.
"I'm a man of principle... or not. Whatever the situation calls for." - Alan Shore |
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tbar
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
376 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2008 : 13:40:49
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| Yah ill agree Gretzkys setup skills would be just as good but any player with alot of speed right now can be an excellent setup man with Ovechkin or Heatly on their line. And i also agree with Willus i would take Lemiux in any era of the game...too bad his career got cut short or some of Gratzkys records might be broken. |
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shinnyafterschool
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
375 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2008 : 13:49:10
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Its hard to say.
This can be compared to last years draft Kane(Gretz) and Van Rymsdyk(Mario)
Depending on how well each performed in junior probably wouldn't be a huge factor since both would probably have 200+ point seasons. It really depends what kind of team you already have. |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2008 : 14:20:28
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quote:
Originally posted by shinnyafterschool
Its hard to say.
It really depends what kind of team you already have.
This touches on the reasoning I used to choose Lemieux. With him it doesn't matter what kind of team you have but Gretzky needs a very specific type of team around him.
"I'm a man of principle... or not. Whatever the situation calls for." - Alan Shore |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2008 : 15:52:33
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Back in the Land of the Rising Puck. Happy New Year to everyone.
As I've mentioned before, I find the Wayne vs. Mario question a tough one. Two players, though different sure, essentially on your team for one reason and one reason only, OFFENSE. Not ordinary offense, not good offense, not very good offense, but INCREDIBLE OFFENSE.
So how do you distinguish two offensive superduperstars? When doing the voting for the top player of the last 40 years, I thought about this question again. One thing that gave Wayne the edge to me is that Mario, though USUALLY magnificent, was not ALWAYS magnificent. Even in his earlier/healthier years, there were times when he didn't quite seem to be SO magnificent - didn't ALWAYS seem to be totally there.
Don't get me wrong. I get the argument for Mario, and actually find the case for him convincing on a few levels. But I give Wayne the edge in an all important category that tips the scales, albeit slightly, for me in Wayne's favor. Wayne always, always, always, showed up. Say what you (I) will about his game and contribution being somewhat limited in scope, he was indeed GREAT at what he did, or at least was trying very hard to be, EACH AND EVERY NIGHT. I don't know if one can pay the same compliment to quite as high a degree for Mario.
So, whether it's yesterday's game or todays game, that point always makes me hesitate a bit to take Mario over Wayne.
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Edited by - andyhack on 01/03/2008 16:43:21 |
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admin
Forum Admin
Canada
2341 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2008 : 17:28:06
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quote:
Originally posted by tbar
...Gretzkys goals wouldnt go in for him in todays game goaltending is to good....
Tbar, Gretzky only played 8 years ago. It's not like the goalies have gotten that much better in this short time??? He played against Brodeur, Roy, Turco, Hasek etc. I don't think this particular point is a very strong one for your argument. |
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tbar
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
376 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2008 : 07:07:15
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| Admin, look at his last few years in Newyork St.louis and so on Gretz didnt put up that great of numbers like he did in Edmonton and his early years in La. Sure he was older but really 50 goals in 39 games their is no way he would even come close to that if he was to be out their in his prime this year. Thats how much the goaltending position has changed. Pure scorers like Ovechkin and Healtley dont come close and Heatley is playing with one of the best passers in the leauge in Spezza. And as far as playing against Broduer and Roy etc. dont tell me they dont take up more net now then they did when they enteerd the leauge. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2008 : 07:25:10
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I agree - it's a tough, tough pick, but based on both of their known histories: I pick Gretzky
Much more team oriented in his early days, remember what a spoiled and sullen brat Mario was back then? He matured nicely later, but if I have to knitpick greatness, there it is. Other than this, I can find no real other advantages/disadvantages, unless we actually know that Gretzky's career will be twice as long, and that Mario being in and out of the lineup will create unecessary psychological stress on the team.
And any argument saying Gretzky is not the natural scorer he was - wtf?!? You are talking about the all time record holder for exactly that, dudes!
'Nuff said.
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Berniefan4life
Top Prospect
Canada
20 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2008 : 07:43:48
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[quote]Originally posted by slozo
I agree - it's a tough, tough pick, but based on both of their known histories: I pick Gretzky
Much more team oriented in his early days, remember what a spoiled and sullen brat Mario was back then? He matured nicely later, but if I have to knitpick greatness, there it is. Other than this, I can find no real other advantages/disadvantages, unless we actually know that Gretzky's career will be twice as long, and that Mario being in and out of the lineup will create unecessary psychological stress on the team.
And any argument saying Gretzky is not the natural scorer he was - wtf?!? You are talking about the all time record holder for exactly that, dudes!
'Nuff said.
I agree 100 %, he is the Great One for a reason. He's the best, check the record books.
Flyers Fan since age 5 |
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Guest2918
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Posted - 01/04/2008 : 10:06:56
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| GOTTA BE THE GREAT ONE. BE TEMPTED TO PICK MARIO BASED ON SIZE ADVANTAGE. BUT SHOT, SPEED, PASSING, POSITIONING AND VISION MAKE UP FOR MARIOS OBVIOUS ADVANTAGES OVER GRETZKY. IM NOT SAYING MARIO DIDNT HAVE THESE SKILLS OR WASNT ON GRETZKY'S LEVEL, BUT COMING FROM JUNIOR S UP TO NHL I THINK GRETZKY WOULD GET THE #1 DRAFT OVER MARIO ON 20 OUT OF 30 TEAMS. |
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I HATE CROSBY
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
538 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2008 : 11:36:50
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I hate Mario more than any player in the history of the game......For those of you who said Wayne played poorly in St. Louis and NY, remember his health was pretty bad too. He had a really bad back.
Never-the-less, my opinion would be very biased on this due to my hatred for Mario.
Sugar Ray over Hasek any day! |
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Guest7418
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Posted - 01/04/2008 : 14:10:26
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dumb question which is just a rehash of all the others.
it really depends on what your teams needs are... but if you are choosing the 1st player to build a team around, it's always got to be Gretzky - and i'm the biggest Mario fan out there. |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2008 : 19:38:46
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1) Mario's mom is a bigger fan then you.
2) Mario would still get cancer.
3) Gretzky did have a better supporting cast, but Lemieux didn't have slouches around him. (Stevens, Francis, Recchi, Jagr, etc..)
4) Has Gretz really been out of the league so long that people are actually forgetting what he actually did on the ice, there's more to Gretz then just his numbers. He could probably strap on some of his new heated skates tomorrow go out and lead Phoenix in points. |
Edited by - MSC on 01/06/2008 01:58:02 |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2008 : 06:06:41
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I think that this question is slightly redundant
That being said, it is a good topic and I thin you have to look at alot. Tbar, you took out the health aspect which means so much, and unfortunately, hockey players succumb to the rules of nature. The what ifs around Mario may always haunt him.
And I know he has size and was probably the best at single handedly winning games.
But when we look at footage of Gretzky, and all his seemingly easy goals, you are forgetting that he did this night after night after night for twenty years. He had an uncanny hockey sense, and you can't put in extra hours at practice to work on that. I think he really is one of the players who 'made it look easy'. If goalies were really as bad as some of us say, I think that a lot more players would have come nearer to Gretzky's astronomical numbers.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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IN TODAYS NHL who do you take 99 or 66 
