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Guest7007
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 Posted - 01/04/2008 : 21:06:36
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Just read this from ESPN:
The game between Toronto and Pittsburgh was Sid's 200th game. In that time he has gathered 277 points which is good for only the 6th most all time by the 200th game.
Of the other players above him, 2 were the most prolific scorers in the last 25 years. Gretz at 411, Mario at 324. The next in line is one of the best European to ever play the game, P. Statsny at 315.
The next 2 are a little of a shocker. I would have thought Selanne (with his monster first year of 132 point), D. Savard or Bossy. Nope. The Concussed One (Lindros) is next with 285. The number 5 slot is even a greater shock (at least to me). I knew he was good but not in this realm and it would be a million years before I came up with this one, but Kent Nilsson holds the number 5 spot at 279.
Wow, Kent frikin' Nilsson. I wonder how Elias Bureau gathers this info, but I'd like to know how close Selanne, Bossy and Savard is to this list. I wonder if there are any other shockers in the top 10.
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2008 : 22:33:50
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| This tells me two things...1)Sid is in some pretty elite company, and 2)Gretz's 411 points in 200 games is astronomical. |
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PainTrain
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1393 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2008 : 09:39:19
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| Sidney has got 277 points in 200 games and who has he had to help him. Malkin? No, they usually play on different lines. Malone?Armstrong?Recchie(His first two years)? Crosby has had no help and for him to rank 6th all time is pretty amazing in my mind. |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2008 : 10:04:01
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Kent Nilsson also played in the WHA for two years with Bobby Hull before playing in the NHL at 22 years of age in the highest scoring era in league history.
Nilsson and Gretzky's marks should probably have an asterisk as they played pro before entering the NHL. I suspect Nilsson learned quite a bit from Mr Hull while lighting up the WHA.
If you take their first years playing professional hockey rather than just their first years in the NHL it looks a little different.
Gretzky scored 110 pts his first pro year in the WHA.
Nilsson scored 214 pts in his first two seasons in the WHA.
Taking that into consideration the top 5 would look different.
"I'm a man of principle... or not. Whatever the situation calls for." - Alan Shore |
Edited by - willus3 on 01/05/2008 10:12:55 |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2008 : 10:16:16
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quote:
Originally posted by PainTrain
Sidney has got 277 points in 200 games and who has he had to help him. Malkin? No, they usually play on different lines. Malone?Armstrong?Recchie(His first two years)? Crosby has had no help and for him to rank 6th all time is pretty amazing in my mind.
He also did it in a harder era to score. Around 6 goals a game versus around 8 goals a game in the 80's.
"I'm a man of principle... or not. Whatever the situation calls for." - Alan Shore |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2008 : 11:53:30
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quote:
Originally posted by willus3
Kent Nilsson also played in the WHA for two years with Bobby Hull before playing in the NHL at 22 years of age in the highest scoring era in league history.
Nilsson and Gretzky's marks should probably have an asterisk as they played pro before entering the NHL. I suspect Nilsson learned quite a bit from Mr Hull while lighting up the WHA.
If you take their first years playing professional hockey rather than just their first years in the NHL it looks a little different.
Gretzky scored 110 pts his first pro year in the WHA.
Nilsson scored 214 pts in his first two seasons in the WHA.
Taking that into consideration the top 5 would look different.
"I'm a man of principle... or not. Whatever the situation calls for." - Alan Shore
Bunk. All Bunk.
If you took all those 6 names and put them in the league today, I would bet vasts amounts of money that the order would be the same.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2008 : 13:03:23
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Sorry, I don't get it . . . "only" (?!?) the 6th?
If he stays relatively healthy, Sid the Kid, by the end of his career, will probably outscore Lindros, Stastny and of course Nilsson from your list. But he probably won't (in my opinion) outscore Howe, Messier, Kurri, or Bossy, who didn't make the top five in this stat.
The stat is as good as it is - a barometer for an awesome, quick start to a career, that's all. |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2008 : 14:30:25
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Gretzky was only 17 when he started in the WHA, he could have been in the NHL, but he was not 18...
Of coarse you know that this means war!
- - Bugs Bunny
http://www.maldesigns.ca/top50since1967.htm
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2008 : 15:11:30
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quote:
Bunk. All Bunk.
If you took all those 6 names and put them in the league today, I would bet vasts amounts of money that the order would be the same.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!!
Beans are you trying to tell me that playing with MEN in a pro league before playing in the NHL didn't benefit Nilsson and Gretzky?
Mario has stated that playing with men was the single biggest adjustment he had to make. A year or two in the WHL before the NHL rather than jumping right from junior to the NHL helped.
Debunked.
"I'm a man of principle... or not. Whatever the situation calls for." - Alan Shore |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2008 : 15:32:31
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I didn't mean that Willus. What I mean is that if Gretzky didn't play in the WHA before the NHL, he more than likely still would have had more points after 200 games than anyone else.
And it would only help if the caliber of hockey was high.
Do you think that there would have been any benefit of Crosby playing a year in the AHL before the NHL??? I don't.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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Guest7007
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Posted - 01/05/2008 : 21:00:23
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Sorry, I don't get it . . . "only" (?!?) the 6th?
If he stays relatively healthy, Sid the Kid, by the end of his career, will probably outscore Lindros, Stastny and of course Nilsson from your list. But he probably won't (in my opinion) outscore Howe, Messier, Kurri, or Bossy, who didn't make the top five in this stat.
The stat is as good as it is - a barometer for an awesome, quick start to a career, that's all.
Yes only. As in, Jim has a billion dollars and he is only the top 400 richest person in the world, kinda only.
Get it in your head. It is not MY list. This was from ESPN (fantasy hockey - daily blog). |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2008 : 05:59:31
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Hey guys, Alex is back and here we go, back to business
First of all, I would like to say that this means close to nothing. Health plays a big factor. So does how long he decides to play...
Just for a little comparison, if you look at NHL in the next two years, probably the most important story will be Brodeur capturing most wins and shutouts as a goalie. Conservatively, it will have taken him 15 seasons, and maybe a little more.
Roy did it in 20 seasons.
Now look at a goalie like Dryden, or better, Tretiak. Could we not make a case that they were better than a goalie like Brodeur, who played behind one of the best defensive teams of the era?
My point, in a roundabout sort of way, is that I don't really care how far Sid has come so far stat-wise, and personally, I don't care how far he goes, because I don't think he will crack the top 10 point getters ever. Is that why Pittsburgh drafted him?
Personally, his biggest achievement would be to bring a cup to his team. But he has already accomplished so much. He is a role model at 20 years old. He is making a name for the game in the south. He is getting young players excited to emulate him. I think that, at the end of the day, hockey is about fun and winning. Stats can get a lot of debate. Crosby is on pace to be better than the sixth best player ever, I don't care what the stats seem to indicate.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Points at the 200th NHL game 
