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kingwoody2
Top Prospect



72 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2008 :  10:59:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What do you think of what Bobby Clarke had to say yesterday on Off The Record? What a retard. Someone needs to shoot a puck over the glass and hit Boby Clarke in the noggin.

Here's what he said:

When he went after Blake, I loved it," Clarke told TSN
"Blake was a guy who had no problem going out and saying (Downie) should be suspended for life or suspended for the year," he explained, referring to Blake's reaction last September to the McAmmond incident. "When you say something that stupid, why shouldn't this kid go after him for it?"

The punch left a large welt under Blake's left eye but there was no structural damage. Downie was fined by league disciplinarian Colin Campbell for the incident, but did not receive a suspension.

"The kid did what every hockey player should do," added the former Broad Street Bully. "If a player like Blake who's been around as long as he has wants to criticize a player then he has to go on the ice with him and suffer the consequences."

Clarke, who is no stranger to rough play from his glory days with the team in the 1970s, also defended Downie's hit on McAmmond last fall.

"My own personal feelings is that Colin Campbell overreacted," he said regarding the 20-game suspension.

"The hit that Downie threw on McAmmond was not a whole lot different than the hits we all admired, including myself - that Scott Stevens used to do on open ice. He hit lots of heads and hurt lots of people and we said it was great. What Downie did was, it looked like Colin Campbell took it personally, (thinking) 'I told these players they couldn't do that and he did so I'm going to get him.' To suspend him for 20 games is ridiculous. McAmmond was a veteran player who was skating and watching his pass and got nailed. Sorry for it, too bad he got hurt but it was his own fault as much as it was Downie's."

willus3
Moderator



Canada
1948 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2008 :  11:31:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a lot of respect for Bobby Clarke. After reading this I might even have a little more respect for him.
I don't always agree with what he says but in this case I do.


"I'm a man of principle... or not. Whatever the situation calls for." - Alan Shore
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Guest9840
( )

Posted - 01/10/2008 :  11:48:39  Reply with Quote
willus,
I'm sorry I don't understand exactly why you have more respect for him? can you explain that further?

Are you implying that hitting a guy whille he's being fully restrained by a ref is ok, or that the flying hit on McAmmond shouldn't have been penalized, or that it's ok to seek retribution for past incidents/comments no matter how you get the it.

Or is the respect coming from Clarke sticking up for his player no matter what he did?

Would you give the same respect to the islanders execs if they had stuck up for Chris Simon the same way over the past couple of incidents?

Or is it just the frankness and honesty that's commendable?

Just looking for some details here. I mean Holgrem doesn't even agree with the stuff Downie's done...
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2008 :  12:09:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My take is this. I think Clarke was dead wrong in saying that the hit Downie layed on McAmmond was ok. He is wrong there.

However, I think that the reason Downie got a chance to hit Blake was that the linesmen did a piss poor job breaking up the fight. Shots like that happen. Just because it was Downie doesn't make it worse.

I agree with Clarke in that Downie going after Blake was a good thing. A the punch was really nothing. It wasn't like a Tootoo on Robidas from last year.

If it wasn't Downie or a player from Toronto getting hit, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!!
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Guest9840
( )

Posted - 01/10/2008 :  12:26:44  Reply with Quote
I agree that the hit being from Downie doesn't make it "worse", but just because he had a beef with Blake doesn't make it any less cheap either. Maybe downie should have just waited to take his shot face to face.

The discussion point is that this sort of thing seems to be in his nature, and it's precisely his history that's making this an issue. Beans' is right if this was someone else, it could be just another shot that got out of a scrum. But would another player have thrown that particular punch is the question.

I'm digressing from the Clarke topic a bit though so, back to him...

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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4594 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2008 :  12:45:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have ZERO respect for Clarke - he was a dirty player, and he is a nasty, a****** of a person.

I think what he said on OTR (I didn't see it) is indicative of the kind of idiotic bully mentality that Clarke has. I have never EVER admired the kinds of hits like Downie threw on McAmmond. I have admired some Scott Stevens hits, though (although not all were clean, obviously). I love watching Phaneuf hit.

It's too bad somebody doesn't end Clarke's career as a GM by laying on a first class beating - 'cause I would stand in line to do that.
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tbar
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
376 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2008 :  12:56:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Clark is right in everything he said. If you watch your pass instead of the play your gona get tagged. Downie didnt elbow he left his feet a split second before the hit and he rocked a vet with a mushy head. 9-10 players bounce right back up from that hit. Stevens hits were no different, Dion Phanuef hits the same way. I watched a short video somewhere of his hit and he almost allways leavs his feet.

Im a Leafs fan but if i was Downie i would have done the same thing to Blake. Downie had to work just as hard to get to the NHL as anyone else who is Blake to suggest he be baned for life or a season. And beleave it or not thats the type of player Downie was molded into and is going to have ti continue to be to have a long career....At least he's not biting people.

Colin Cambell is a joke if him and Betman would have let the players play the game it was always played we wouldnt be talking about a dirty hit... we would be talking about a guy skating with his head up his ass getting knocked out.
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Guest9840
( )

Posted - 01/10/2008 :  13:07:28  Reply with Quote
Are you kidding me... 9 out of 10 get up from a hit like that, you've got to be kidding. You gotta check the tape again man... that could end 9 out of 10 guys careers.
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2268 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2008 :  13:42:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9840

Are you kidding me... 9 out of 10 get up from a hit like that, you've got to be kidding. You gotta check the tape again man... that could end 9 out of 10 guys careers.



i agree with clark aswell we're not balerina's we're hockey players,,,, if downie hadn't left his feet it would have been a clean and equally montrous hit,,, and the punch to the face is just an intense young rook showing folks hes gonna play his game wether you're jason blake or anybody else,,,, im not sayin either move was a legal one all im saying is this is hockey and these kind of things will happen,,, both times the kid used his body now if he was swinging sticks at heads then i'd be suspending him!

Pasty
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2008 :  13:43:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tbar

Clark is right in everything he said. If you watch your pass instead of the play your gona get tagged. Downie didnt elbow he left his feet a split second before the hit and he rocked a vet with a mushy head. 9-10 players bounce right back up from that hit. Stevens hits were no different, Dion Phanuef hits the same way. I watched a short video somewhere of his hit and he almost allways leavs his feet.

Im a Leafs fan but if i was Downie i would have done the same thing to Blake. Downie had to work just as hard to get to the NHL as anyone else who is Blake to suggest he be baned for life or a season. And beleave it or not thats the type of player Downie was molded into and is going to have ti continue to be to have a long career....At least he's not biting people.

Colin Cambell is a joke if him and Betman would have let the players play the game it was always played we wouldnt be talking about a dirty hit... we would be talking about a guy skating with his head up his ass getting knocked out.




WOW????

I agree 100% that the guy needs to have his head on a swivel and that McAmmond does share in the responsibility of getting hit, but the hit itself was delivered with serious intent. Leaving his feet, leading with the elbow/shoulder, taking like 8 strides before the hit, and aiming for and contacting the head. All of those things are against the rules.

I agree with this last guy, 9 out of 10 guys lose their career from a hit like that.

And there is a big difference between leaving your feet from the impact of the hit and leaving your feet before the hit. Phaneuf rarely leaves his feet before the hit, but often leaves his feet from the impact of the hit. Stevens was the same(in most, not all cases).

This Downie thing, when considering contact sports, would have been illegal not just in hockey, but football, rugby, lacrosse, and any other contact sport. In not any sport, league, or game is it ok to hurl one's body at top speed into an opponent's head.

Actually, WWE will allow that. And we all know that Wrestling is a real sport right!!

Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!!
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willus3
Moderator



Canada
1948 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2008 :  14:25:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9840

willus,
I'm sorry I don't understand exactly why you have more respect for him? can you explain that further?

Are you implying that hitting a guy whille he's being fully restrained by a ref is ok, or that the flying hit on McAmmond shouldn't have been penalized, or that it's ok to seek retribution for past incidents/comments no matter how you get the it.


No it's not ok to hit someone who is restrained.
I don't think it warranted the suspension or attention it was given.
Yes it's ok to seek retribution. It happens all the time. Normally it isn't done so obviously though.

quote:
Or is the respect coming from Clarke sticking up for his player no matter what he did?


Yes.

quote:
Would you give the same respect to the islanders execs if they had stuck up for Chris Simon the same way over the past couple of incidents?


Simon's offences are cowardly. Using sticks and skates. So, no.

quote:
Or is it just the frankness and honesty that's commendable?


Yes.



"I'm a man of principle... or not. Whatever the situation calls for." - Alan Shore
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
814 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2008 :  16:10:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bobby Clarke's comments are a true reflection of the not only the way he thinks the game should be played, but also the way he, himself, played the game. Not a big man in stature, but a huge heart for the game. Anyways, I don't believe that Clarke is integral in the Flyer's organization currently, so his comments were honest, and not meant to protect the integrity of Steve Downie.

The Oil WILL make the playoffs.
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star



Canada
2816 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2008 :  16:23:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well that just goes to show that the Flyer's are learning from the top downie.

You know what Bobby Clarke? Who the hell died and maid you Hulk Hogan? You know what, hockey is not for hurting someone. And all those things that Beans pointed out -- Downie tried to hurt him.

Oh, and um, last time I checked this country operatetes on the freedom of speech policy. What's next, sucker punching Hillary Clinton? Blake DESERVED it for SPEAKING a little exaggerated? This is what gives hockey a bad name. The pure head hunters. Bobby, you missed the boat on this one, and ened up on the titanic my friend.

It is disgusting that one could recieve praise for intent to injure. On two occasions.

Habs get number 25 this year
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
537 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2008 :  18:00:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bobby Clark is a mean nasty prejudiced two faced little varmit. I can't even begin to tell you how much I have grown to despise this person over the years. Clark very seldom fought in the Broad Street bully days but took many cruel and mean liberties on other players without retribution in most cases because of the goon squad surrounding him. Look what he purposely did to Kharlamov in the '72 summit series? This guy was a first class stick man and ask any of the GM's who was most likely to go back on their word when consummating trades etc. Yes, I too liked the fact that he was sticking up for his beloved orange and black but I do not admire the crimes he was defending. I just can't wait to hear what hideous remarks he will make when he becomes totally senile. If nothing else it should make for some fine media fodder for sure.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2008 :  21:34:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I must reiterate, if it wasn't Downie doing the punching or a Leaf getting one to the face, this conversation would not be happening.

I wonder if this same thing happened but only it was Crosby doing the punching and say, Tootoo receiving the punch, what would be said??

I would bet a stupidly large sum of money that you, me, and every guy on TSN, RSN, CBC, and any other channel would say, "Good for Crosby sticking up for himself."

Clarke was wrong on regarding the hit on McAmmond, but his was dead right with this statement saying good for Downie for going after Blake.

Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!!
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PainTrain
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1393 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2008 :  21:36:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bobby Clark is one of those guy you would love to have on your team and hate to play against. What he did was sticking up for the Flyers organization. Steve Downie obviously had Blake's number after the interview. And he went after him, so be it.

Today in my hockey game, I got hit cleanly but I didn't retaliate on the play. I got the guys number. Next play I saw him with his head down and "Adios Amigo!" he went down like a sack of hammers. Hockey is played with emotion. Both incidents Downie showed a TON of emotion and hit a guy that was dirty and then sucker punched a guy. But hey that's hockey. Downie served his punishment, now he went for some pay back for someone who said he shouldn't play anymore. If both of those plays happened when Booby Clark was playing, no one would have cared as much now. That just means that Bobby Clark is still in that old time mode.
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
601 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2008 :  00:07:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You can't teach an old dog new tricks. Clarke isn't about to go all PC because that's what you're supposed to do. Guys like him help keep hockey at least somewhat in touch with it's roots. They may not always be right but that won't stop them from saying what they feel or taking they're players/teamates side %150 every single time. What's wrong with aggresive, eye for an eye hockey anyhow? What team wants to go out and play against another team knowing that every time they go into a corner or put their head they're going to get smoked? Philly is one goalie away from a Stanley Cup run because they have the grit needed to go along with the skill.
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kingwoody2
Top Prospect



72 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2008 :  06:00:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My take on it is that stuff happens in games. It was a cheap shot but hey next time that the flyers and leafs play Downie should probably expect the same. But it won't happen because even though I love the Leafs, they are a bunch of pussies. They don't stick up for one another at all. Bring back Nathan Perrott. At least he did something.

But at the same time, Bobby Clarke needs to shut up. Stupid comnments from a stupid individual. But at least the Flyers stick up for each other. They just lose their heads and cheap shot people instead of waiting for the right moment. Big difference....

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Guest4139
( )

Posted - 01/11/2008 :  08:14:43  Reply with Quote
Clarke off ice is as nice a guy as you could meet anywhere........The on ice Clarke, however, was as intense a person as you would expect of a leader of a stanley cup winner not so unlike others before him or after him. Messier comes to mind and in my opinion Messier was the more intense of the two but they were similiar do anything you can to win,including taking shots at opponents anytime anywhere on the ice. Clarke is right about Stevens check out his hits it is hard to draw a line on legal or illegal but Stevens did end careers ( Lindros) and in my view Downie hit was vicious but a number of years ago would have been viewed like Stevens legal or illegal...........As for the Blake thing,the linesman is to blame, he blew his assignment. Oh and by the way when was the last time the leafs had anybody with an ounce of intensity thus no ring or cup and no guest on OTR.
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
537 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2008 :  09:32:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't retract anything thing I said about the mean spirited, dirty little curmugeon who is Bob Clark. I will add that people of his ilk generally add color to the game and give us lively discussions such as this. I also admire his loyalty to the Flyers and his win at all cost approach. He might be a charming gentleman off the ice when he feels like it but this is just a disguise to cover up what anybody who has followed hockey since his playing days knows, this person is a devil in sheep's clothing.
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hkalirah
PickupHockey Pro



382 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2008 :  11:25:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey guys, you better watch what you say. Downie may be coming after you guys as well?

Hell, why don't the Leafs send Belak to Philly to teach Clarke a lesson on keeping his mouth shut as well?

I say the put a playground on the Ice for these guys, because it sounds like grade school to me.

Go Wings Go!
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Guest6569
( )

Posted - 01/11/2008 :  12:55:58  Reply with Quote
I personally lost a massive amount of respect for Clarke after that comment...before I could accept a certain amount of Clarke's schtik but he went way over the line with his last one. Just a low class attempt to keep himself relevant. Good for him for being honest but that comment says quite a lot about the character of the man. Even Don Cherry, the ultimate lover of tough guy hockey, chastised Downie for that incident!

Imagine a Stan Mikita, Darryl Sittler or Marcel Dionne saying something like that about what Downie did, never!

Peace!
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kingwoody2
Top Prospect



72 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2008 :  13:00:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For anyone that thinks that Scott Stevens hits were dirty better watch some of these hits....He hit clean and hard..and he didnt take 8 big strides towards the guy. He took 1-2 strides or just stopped skating backwards
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Kyrens gpa
Top Prospect



14 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2008 :  16:25:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I do not think Clarke cares if anyone respects or agrees with his viewpoint on this topic,in his mind and in mine, it is good ole hockey game the way it is suppose to be played. Intense and tough,sometimes dirty,and if it is, fight the guy..........course if he is laying on the ice with concussion, call for the stretcher, get him off the ice and get on with the game, and let the team deal with the hitter after the 2 min penalty !!!!!!! I am not going to apologize for any of the above, I just want to see the good ole hockey game.................I mean the way it is going now, the trainers will have to learn how to sharpen skates with picks on the front and learn to iron frilly uniforms.(aka Sedin sisters) Is it the cup or the money we are watching them play for???????? By the way, Stevens could never skate 8 strides all at once,but.what a heck of a good ole defenseman legal hits or not legal hits and this is what Clarke is pointing out...........................
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
537 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2008 :  21:43:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey Guest, What the heck does Downie have to do with Philly winning the Stanley Cup before Toronto does? You seem to be convoluting your feelings toward the Leafs and what Bob Clark said about Downie. This prognostication of yours is definitely off topic. I happen to like Steve Downie and think he is a real good player. He is tough and takes no prisoners while wearing his heart on his sleeve. I do not condone every play he makes and I think the league has got it's just penence for his actions in these two cases. My personel feeling is he just needs to reel it in a small bit and he will have a fine career.
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pensfan17
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
330 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2008 :  11:00:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

Steve Downie obviously had Blake's number after the interview.



Why would Downie care about what Blake said in the interview. It was kind of a cheap shot but as people have mentioned the refs did a bad job breaking up the fight. The one reff held back Blake while the other one did very little to hold back Downie. Lots of guys try to get one more shot in during a scrum and it wasnt Downies fault Blake was defenceless.

As for the McCammond hit, im sure Downie wasn't thhinking " I'm gonna nail this guy with a headshot and give him a concussion."

He saw McCammond with his head down and wanted to get a big hit to try to impress the coaches and to get a spot on the Flyers roster. He wasnt trying to take his head off.
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Guest0772
( )

Posted - 01/12/2008 :  12:48:24  Reply with Quote
People are making a big deal about the punch, because Downie has a history, and it's his first year in the league. Can you imagine his track record in ten years, if he continues on this way? These things he does show no respect to the other players, seeing a rookie play like that is disgusting. Play hard and with an edge, but play with respect.
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Guest9246
( )

Posted - 01/12/2008 :  13:21:35  Reply with Quote
I do think the Downie punch was a cheap shot and it will come back to haunt Downie who apparently wants to really push the boundaries on what you can do in the NHL. I'm less concerned about his hit on McAmmond which although dubious was not substantially different from so many others that are highlight reel hits i.e. Wendel Clark's hit on Bell(I think) behind the net in St. Louis. The league had better be careful with these suspensions because it's only a matter of time before a Crosby or a Thornton does something equally "dubious" and should be suspended but probably isn't. As for Mr Clark, I loath him. His playing record speaks for itself(good and bad), his managerial record(bad) but the worst is his ongoing freindship with that rat Eagleson. And how that peckerhead is allowed into the Air Canada Centre I'll never know.
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willus3
Moderator



Canada
1948 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2008 :  15:27:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9246

I do think the Downie punch was a cheap shot and it will come back to haunt Downie who apparently wants to really push the boundaries on what you can do in the NHL. I'm less concerned about his hit on McAmmond which although dubious was not substantially different from so many others that are highlight reel hits i.e. Wendel Clark's hit on Bell(I think) behind the net in St. Louis. The league had better be careful with these suspensions because it's only a matter of time before a Crosby or a Thornton does something equally "dubious" and should be suspended but probably isn't. As for Mr Clark, I loath him. His playing record speaks for itself(good and bad), his managerial record(bad) but the worst is his ongoing freindship with that rat Eagleson. And how that peckerhead is allowed into the Air Canada Centre I'll never know.


Can you elaborate on the relationship with Alan Eagleson comment? I'd like to hear more on that.


"I'm a man of principle... or not. Whatever the situation calls for." - Alan Shore
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Guest9246
( )

Posted - 01/13/2008 :  20:33:36  Reply with Quote
The relationship is quite simple. Alan represented Clark as a player, at least, and it would appear never screwed him unlike everyone else. Bobby(not Bob) rather than letting well enough alone shows up at a number of Leaf games with him in his private/Flyer's box. And why he's allowed into the hallowed ground of the Air Canada Centre is a mystery. I guess he goes out with him here because Alan isn't allowed into the States anymore.
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Guest4912
( )

Posted - 01/17/2008 :  12:46:59  Reply with Quote
first of all i just want to say that the hit that downie layed out wasent that bad.!!! yes he did hit him to the head but when your coming from behind the net with your head down there obviousy gunna hit it. secondly he did not "charge" or take 8 strides right into him if you watch the vidieo he starts skating at the blue line and stops moving his feet at the top of the circle and coasts into him. yes he didi leave his feet but he did not charge or intend to elbow him in the helmet i think that the suspension was a little much maye 5 games not 20.
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willus3
Moderator



Canada
1948 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2008 :  13:24:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9246

The relationship is quite simple. Alan represented Clark as a player, at least, and it would appear never screwed him unlike everyone else. Bobby(not Bob) rather than letting well enough alone shows up at a number of Leaf games with him in his private/Flyer's box. And why he's allowed into the hallowed ground of the Air Canada Centre is a mystery. I guess he goes out with him here because Alan isn't allowed into the States anymore.


That's interesting. I didn't know they were still chummy.

"Last time I went to the movies I was thrown out for bringing my own food. My argument was that the concession stand prices are outrageous. Besides, I haven't had a Bar-B-Que in a long time."
-- Steven Wright
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2008 :  13:33:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Off topic a little, but wasn't in Eagleson who represented Bobby Orr as well?? Was it not Eagleson who didn't tell Orr about the deal from Boston(including part ownership in the team) so that he would sign with Eagleson's buddy in Chicago??

Say what you will about Bob Clarke, Chris Simon, Bertuzzi, McSorley, etc. There has never been or never will be a guy involved with hockey that could be worse for the game than Al Eagleson.

Sick.

Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!!
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