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nashvillepreds
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1053 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2008 :  07:31:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Simple question, who was the best winger to play since 1980? I know my answer, but I'm going to give my input just yet.

Ellis or Mason?

Go Preds Go!

EDIT: Topic has been changed due to my stupidity.

Edited by - nashvillepreds on 04/03/2008 08:16:18

willus3
Moderator



Canada
1948 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2008 :  09:20:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's pretty easy.

Gordie Howe. Without question.

Next would be Bobby Hull.
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Guest8815
( )

Posted - 04/02/2008 :  09:59:13  Reply with Quote
^ Definately.
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Leafsfan_94
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1070 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2008 :  10:25:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
howe has my vote

quote:
Originally posted by willus3

That's pretty easy.

Gordie Howe. Without question.

Next would be Bobby Hull.






Leafsfan_94

I HATE YOU HABS!

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nashvillepreds
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1053 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2008 :  11:24:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
why, I can't belive a completely blanked out on Gordie Howe. I'm knida mad at myself. how about the best winger post 1980?

Ellis or Mason?

Go Preds Go!
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PainTrain
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1393 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2008 :  15:35:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Who do you have in mind Nash? Is it Luc Robitaille?
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro

Canada
671 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2008 :  00:48:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And Howe's the only name that came to my mind immediately.

Richard and Hull might lead the rest of the pack, imho.
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nashvillepreds
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1053 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2008 :  08:16:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I had Hull in mind, but I blanked out on Howe

Ellis or Mason?

Go Preds Go!
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mytor4
Rookie



Canada
134 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2008 :  10:14:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nashvillepreds

Simple question, who was the best winger to play since 1980? I know my answer, but I'm going to give my input just yet.

Ellis or Mason?

Go Preds Go!

EDIT: Topic has been changed due to my stupidity.



Well since you ask SINCE 1980 that would knock out Howe, Richard and B.Hull because they were before that date. Lucky Luc set the record for most goals for a L.W but that doesn't make him automaticly the best but he did have a good career.this is tough i'll have to get back to you on this one.

57 career losses,46 shutouts and 5 vezina trophys.6 Stanley Cup rings in 8 yrs
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willus3
Moderator



Canada
1948 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2008 :  18:32:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
After 1980 my eyes tell me Cam Neely.
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leigh
Moderator



Canada
1601 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2008 :  23:41:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
According to "Pickuphockey's Top 50 Since 1967" the best winger was Mike Bossy. By the way his career ran from 1977 to 1988 http://www.pickuphockey.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3235

Jagr has to be a consideration too.

quote:
Originally posted by PuckNuts

Player Ranking:

This post will be updated after each round of voting is complete.

1.) Wayne Gretzky
2.) Bobby Orr
3.) Mario Lemieux
4.) Mark Messier
5.) Guy Lafleur
6.) Bryan Trottier
7.) Ray Bourque
8.) Phil Esposito
9.) Mike Bossy
10.) Steve Yzerman
11.) Jaromir Jagr
12.) Joe Sakic
13.) Bobby Clarke
14.) Marcel Dionne *
15.) Denis Potvin *
16.) Paul Coffey
17.) Larry Robinson
18.) Brad Park
19.) Gilbert Perreault
20.) Peter Forsberg
21.)

* Tied for 14th



Edited by - leigh on 04/03/2008 23:43:27
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2008 :  08:44:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That is seriously tough. I don't know if I could pick just one. I know by top 5 SINCE 1980 would be

Bossy
Jagr
Kurri
Neely
Brett Hull

I personally don't think Robataille was a bad player, but I also don't think he was better than anyone I put on this list. And I am sure there may be another one or two that I have not thought about, but this is what I come up with off the top of my head.

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leigh
Moderator



Canada
1601 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2008 :  10:44:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's a great list Beans! (at first glance I'd put them in this order - with Robitaille on it):

1) Mike Bossy (nobody could touch his consistent peak value!)
2) Jaromir Jagr
3) Jari Kurri (although it's really hard to tell how good he would have been without WG)
4) Brett Hull
5) Luc Robitaille
6) Cam Neely
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2008 :  11:11:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I might agree with Bossy, however I just don't get this who "peak value" vs. "Total Value" thing. That's for another time.

Cam Neely last on the list??? No way. I can't see that. Just because the guys career was cut short and played most of his career with injuries that most would not be able to play through.

Kurri, yes might be clouded by the WG coat tail, but from watching the guy, straight talent.

After thinking about it, here is my list.

1) Bossy - Arguably the best pure scorer in NHL history.
2) Jagr - Disgustingly talented. If he didn't take the odd night off here or there, I think I would put him #1 on the list.
3) Jari Kurri - WG or not, the best Finish Hockey player to date. Yes, better than Selanne.
4) Cam Neely - Career Cut short, but completely re-defined the "power forward" position. A serious lose to the NHL.
5) Brett Hull - Top Goal scorer behind WG and GH. Clutch. Not much else to say.

I just don't see Robatialle ahead of any of these guys.
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leigh
Moderator



Canada
1601 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2008 :  13:12:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey I love Neely as much as any other fan but his career was probably past the end of his peak days. And as a whole, he didn't put up nearly the numbers of some of these other guys and the PPG was lower. I know it's not all about stats especially when you're talking about a guy like Neely, but they do tell a large part of the story. And considering the otehr people we're talking about they all brought other intangibles to the table so it's a bit of a wash here - side note, I was lucky enough to meet Neely and talk with him briefly, very nice man!

I hear ya Beans, I'm not a big fan of using the Peak Value argument when comparing entire careers either but in Bossy's case I think it applies. He came on the scene and left the scene being the exact same producer (50+ goals EVERY YEAR of his career except the one in which he was forced to retire in which he got 38 in 60 games or so) My point is that he didn't show any signs of his numbers dropping off.

And I've always believed there has to be a few bonus points for longevity.

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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
899 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2008 :  12:34:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi All,

Impressive and knowledgable lists, but honorable mention should also include a couple others, maybe not top 5 but considerations;

Shanahan - Cam Neely type forward with durability
Mike Gartner - Mr. Consistent
Dino Ciccarelli - super pest with scoring touch
Pavel Bure - with better knees....who knows where he would
have ended up

My choice as the best since 1980 - Jagr , lazy at times, but too much talent to be disregarded

Edited by - fat_elvis_rocked on 06/27/2008 12:36:03
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willus3
Moderator



Canada
1948 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2008 :  14:33:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I should clarify my answer earlier. My eyes tell me Neely was my favourite. However Jagr is without a doubt the best.

Peak vs career is usually a frustrating topic for me. When rating how good a player is length of career is of minor importance. What does it matter if a player played twenty years . Ten at a very high level the rest at an average level. The average years aren't going to make that player better than someone else who had an equally great ten years and then didn't play. The only player that longevity actually helps is Gordie Howe. Howe played at an elite level for 20 years. He was top 5 in scoring every year for 20 years. That is a stunning accomplishment.
Career length mean zilch to me. When I rate a player I think about how good he was when he was at his best. Other factors can come into play but thats how I do it.
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2239 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2008 :  16:53:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
well since everyone has named all the past greats i feel although some of the guys i am about to mention may not be as illustrious as mike bossy etc they deffinetly deserve consideration on this list,,,, for one,,,,,,, as Fat Elvis said Brendan Shanahan no question is a top 5, Jarome Iginla is the best winger in the game today possibly the best player so again he must be at least mentioned,,, another name i'm going to shoot out there but correct me if i'm wrong i think he may have been converted to a center ,,, is matts naslund,, he was a very underated part of a huge habs team,,, again the argument could be made wuld he have been as good without the habs?? again also he had a short career but he was amazing the 7 seasons he played in the nhl.. there are so many great wingers,,,

Pasty

Edited by - Pasty7 on 06/27/2008 17:11:16
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro

Canada
671 Posts

Posted - 06/28/2008 :  03:02:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mytor4

quote:
Originally posted by nashvillepreds

Simple question, who was the best winger to play since 1980? I know my answer, but I'm going to give my input just yet.

Ellis or Mason?

Go Preds Go!

EDIT: Topic has been changed due to my stupidity.



Well since you ask SINCE 1980 that would knock out Howe, Richard and B.Hull because they were before that date. Lucky Luc set the record for most goals for a L.W but that doesn't make him automaticly the best but he did have a good career.this is tough i'll have to get back to you on this one.

57 career losses,46 shutouts and 5 vezina trophys.6 Stanley Cup rings in 8 yrs



And since YOU hadn't noticed, the original topic was edited in order to EXCLUDE Howe Richard and Bobby Hull because of their obvious stature!!

(Originally those players were included in the consideration, so they were the obvious answer...the topic has now grown more interesting since the edit.)
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
877 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2008 :  07:56:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Alexander Ovechkin will be the best winger the game has ever saw after its all said and done, until someone else comes along after him. But the best right now goes to him and Iginla. But since 1980 is most certainly Bossy. Selanne should have a nice mention as well.
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Guest1750
( )

Posted - 11/18/2008 :  05:51:17  Reply with Quote
Please forget Cam Neely. Cam Neely is only a top 20 pick, and then only if he was 80% healthy. If durability is not a trait you want to consider for the best winger since 1980 then you are crazy. All the coulda, shoulda in the world did not win Neely a cup or a scoring title.

If Cam Neely's best year was 89-90 when he scored 55 goals and 37 assists and he was tied for 3rd in goal scoring that year (hull 72, yzerman 62, bellows 55) then yeah he is great. But remember he never broke 100 points, he only had 4 years where he scored 40 or more (Sucky Robitialle had 8 - 40 or more goal seasons...but boo hoo he had Gretzky, and Brett Hull had 8 - 40 or more goal seasons too. I don't think Neely showed enough dazzle in two or three years or enough durability to be considered the best winger of all time. He was very good when he played just not better than Bossy.

Bossy had 50 goals or more in 9 of 10 seasons played. the last year he played he had 38. He should be the undisputed best winger ever. 10 years is enough to be considered durable and those numbers will not be touched by anyone ever again. 9 straight seasons of 50+ goals - unreal! Granted he played in the era of goal scoring and diluted talent....but he was in the top 10 in scoring 8 of his ten seasons. No other winger from that era or any other was close to being that cosistent and prolific.
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I´m also Cånädiön
Rookie



Sweden
217 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2008 :  01:30:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great players have been mentioned but I would like to throw out the name Sergej Makarov here, not saying he was necessarily the best but definately one of the best.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4514 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2008 :  06:07:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Quite simply, it's gotta be Mike Bossy.

After that (and fairly close behind, I might add) is Jagr.
Then Kurri.
Then Brett Hull.
Then a group of players very close in value . . . Selanne, Robitaille, Bure, and yes, Iginla and a very young Ovechkin.


"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
662 Posts

Posted - 12/30/2008 :  15:06:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Brendan Shanahan
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umteman
PickupHockey Pro



USA
419 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2009 :  09:28:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jagr. 360 degree vision. The guy had eyes in the back of his head.
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Guest4803
( )

Posted - 04/02/2009 :  10:13:30  Reply with Quote
ovechkin or bure
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