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Guest6662
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 Posted - 12/13/2008 : 14:53:56
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Poll Question:
Which NHL player would be the best to start an NHL franchise with ?
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Thrasher
Rookie
Canada
155 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2008 : 15:43:56
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Kovalchuk
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Jephman
Top Prospect
Canada
52 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2008 : 15:46:09
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If Iginla was younger, it would be him, however Crosby is a magician offensively, and he is extremely marketable.
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2008 : 15:52:36
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I think to answer this question you would have to consider that all players were the same age.
That being said, if I had the hindsight of today, I would take Brodeur without question. There has never been a goalie that has played as much and and well as Brodeur in the history of the league.
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2008 : 16:03:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I think to answer this question you would have to consider that all players were the same age.
That being said, if I had the hindsight of today, I would take Brodeur without question. There has never been a goalie that has played as much and and well as Brodeur in the history of the league.
he is seven wins shy of that title my friend
Pasty |
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Guest4985
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Posted - 12/15/2008 : 08:57:05
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| Always build from the goal outward----Brodeur hands down. |
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Guest6618
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Posted - 12/15/2008 : 12:21:07
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| Brodeur is to old now, after his injury hes gonna be washed up. Luongo for sure, best goalie in the nhl, and far more valuable than crosby |
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Jephman
Top Prospect
Canada
52 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2008 : 16:25:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest6618
Brodeur is to old now, after his injury hes gonna be washed up. Luongo for sure, best goalie in the nhl, and far more valuable than crosby
Well yes and no. Pittsburgh has scored 97 goals this season, and Crosby has 44 points. That means Crosby is implicated in nearly half of Pittsburgh's goals. Talk about primary scoring! Luongo has been a wall in the net of the Canucks, so good they made him the Captain (He still leads the league in Shutouts despite his injury). Obviously both Luongo and Crosby have been extremely valuable to their clubs, but you can't say one has been more valuable than the other. |
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fanoleaf
Rookie
143 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2008 : 19:37:44
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quote:
Guest6618 Posted - 12/15/2008 : 12:21:07
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Brodeur is to old now, after his injury hes gonna be washed up. Luongo for sure, best goalie in the nhl, and far more valuable than crosby quote:
I don't think that is fair to say. Both are valuable assets to their own teams. They each have different roles. I do believe though that you need to build a team around a quality goalie. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2008 : 08:32:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Jephman
quote:
Originally posted by Guest6618
Brodeur is to old now, after his injury hes gonna be washed up. Luongo for sure, best goalie in the nhl, and far more valuable than crosby
Well yes and no. Pittsburgh has scored 97 goals this season, and Crosby has 44 points. That means Crosby is implicated in nearly half of Pittsburgh's goals. Talk about primary scoring! Luongo has been a wall in the net of the Canucks, so good they made him the Captain (He still leads the league in Shutouts despite his injury). Obviously both Luongo and Crosby have been extremely valuable to their clubs, but you can't say one has been more valuable than the other.
um, hmmm. How do I put this nicely. I think your opinion is slightly flawed. I think that most hockey people would agree that Luongo is far more important to Vancouver than Crosby is to Pittsburgh.
Firstly, let's look at your arguement. You bring up Crosby's points compared to Pittsburgh's total point. As of this morning, Crosby had 44 points and Pitt has 100 goals, meannig Crosby is in on 44% of his teams total goals. However, using that stat he's not the best in the leauge, hell, he's not even the best on his team!! Malkin has 5 more points in the same number of games. Add in the fact that Malkin has a better +/- playing on the same team, more PP goals, more SH goals, more game winners on less shots.
Don't get me wrong, Crosby is an amazing player and would never be a bad choice to start a team, but ultimately, Malkin has shown to be the player that Pitt is driven by.
Consider last season, Crosby missed 29 games. In that time, Pitt played as well if not better than Crosby in the line up. And Malkin soared. Also, look at the Playoffs last season, Malkin went in the tank and Pitt losts.
To all you Crosby lovers out there, it's a tough thing to admit, but Malkin is the franchise, Crosby is the media face.
Ok, back to the topic at hand. Simply put, Vancouver wins more with Luongo than without him. The same can not be said about Pitt. That fact and that fact alone will put Luongo as more valuable to his team than Crosby to his.
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Guest6442
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Posted - 12/16/2008 : 09:15:15
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| what about Malkin |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2008 : 09:21:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest6618
Brodeur is to old now, after his injury hes gonna be washed up. Luongo for sure, best goalie in the nhl, and far more valuable than crosby
Hmmmm! How amny teams out there would love to have the apparently washed-up Brodeur? This guy has been unbelievably consistent.
6-2-2, 2.16 GAA and a .916% is washed up? If I owned a team, I would take that anyday. |
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Guest6603
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Posted - 12/16/2008 : 14:42:33
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| i said igy although crosby and ovie will probabley put up more points he's the best franchise player |
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Jephman
Top Prospect
Canada
52 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2008 : 16:14:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Consider last season, Crosby missed 29 games. In that time, Pitt played as well if not better than Crosby in the line up. And Malkin soared. Also, look at the Playoffs last season, Malkin went in the tank and Pitt losts.... Simply put, Vancouver wins more with Luongo than without him. The same can not be said about Pitt. That fact and that fact alone will put Luongo as more valuable to his team than Crosby to his.
Can't the same be said about Brodeur this year? New Jersey has played unbelievable since his injury. I think it's a matter of timing whether or not a team plays better or worse, but yes, Vancouver has played worse without Luongo.
I agree with the rest of your post though, how you said Luongo has played incredibly well this year so far. Also that Malkin has been more productive than Crosby so far this year, but you have to agree both Malkin and Crosby have played amazing this year (Albeit Malkin a tad better).
Also you said Crosby is the media face of Pittsburgh, that reason is exactly why I think he would be far more valuable than Luongo (Or anyone else really) on a starting franchise, because he gets ticket and merchandise sales. |
Edited by - Jephman on 12/16/2008 16:26:55 |
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goleafsgosjnb
Top Prospect
Canada
98 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2008 : 16:19:06
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| Crosby. Hands down. I like Ovechkin more, and I hear the whole goalie debate, but these two put fans in the seats and lead their teams to victories. I think Crosby may be more durable over the long run because he is less physical than Ovie. |
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Guest0203
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Posted - 12/17/2008 : 09:29:34
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To people putting down Brodeur, the poll was about who to start a franchise around. So as Beans so precisely pointed out you wouldn't be building a team around Brodeur today obviously, but if he was 20 again, and was destined to have the career he's had, then he has to be picked. It doesn't matter what offence or defense has been in front of him he's got to be one of the most consistent professional athletes in the past 15 years, and consistently at or near the top of his position.
If the question was who would you build a franchise around TODAY. And to compete for many years to come, then the list should be built with only players under 25. If the poll meant who would you build around if you got them at the start of their career, the answer, IMO, is Brodeur. What coach wouldn't want a goalie he could count on to play 70+ games get 35-45 wins, get 5-10 shutouts, for 15 years in a row while holding a .913 sv % and 2.2 GAA over that time. If you knew those stats were coming, you'd buid around that. |
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HockeyFan12
Top Prospect
15 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2008 : 08:26:53
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Ovechkin Hands Down!
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HockeyFan12
Top Prospect
15 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2008 : 08:28:24
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Ovechkin:
-Best accurate shot in the nhl
-Best pure scorer
-Nobody loves to play the game more
-Makes the people around him play better and have more fun
-All around best attitude(way better then Crosby's) |
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Guest8332
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Posted - 12/19/2008 : 13:28:51
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It depends on the GM and what you'd like to accomplish short and long term. Assuming that all available players are at the start of their career.
If I was building a team with making money from the get go. It would be a decent team but it's goal is to entertain. I'd take Ovie. If the same but more sales through long term merchandising and marketability Sid (because he is a better spokes person). I will eventually need to complement Sid or Ovie with a goalie and a defencemen if a Cup is in sight. You can't win the cup with these two without having a goalie or a defence corp within 5 years. Malkin though amazing is too enigmatic to market. He also has the same problem as Sid and Ovie.
If I was building a team within a relatively short term (5 years) Cup aspirations (and future years) in mind, I'd go with Brodeur / Luongo. Note a team with an all world goalie with a defensive system will easily be viable for the playoffs and Cup for a very long time. A defense oriented team with average forward and defensive corp will have a shot at the cup (see Florida with the Van Biesbrouck). Though not very entertaining, so you won't have a great fan base. Personally, I'd choose Brodeur, but would be happy to have Luongo fall into my lap.
A rock solid defender (offensively or defensively) is good to have but requires either a franchise goalie or a forward to have a chance at winning. You can't win with only a stud defensemen. Also, most defenders don't mature until later in their career, so drafting a 20 yrs old D-man is almost a guarantee to keep your team back a few more years. And it is almost impossible to market your team with a defenseman (with only 1 and maybe 2 exceptions since the inception of the entire NHL). |
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Guest2825
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Posted - 12/20/2008 : 19:10:09
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lundqvist isnt there and kipper is?
but off the people there i would pick loungo or ovechkin |
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deadalive
Top Prospect
Canada
19 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2008 : 02:33:29
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I voted Crosby, even though I think Luongo would also be a great choice. Basically it came down to the fact these two teams actually were built around these players, and the Penguins have had more success thus far. The Flames were built around iggy and the Caps were built around Ovechkin, and I still like the pens.
Of course Malkin is a big factor, and certainly should have been on this list ahead of most of these guys... |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2008 : 10:20:58
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Assuming we are starting with guys at the beginning of their careers and not the ages they are now, I would take Iginla. There is nothing he isn't good at and quite a few things he is outstanding at. He is a hell of a hockey player.
"Society, have mercy on me. Hope you're not angry if I disagree." - Jerry Hannan |
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Guest2918
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Posted - 12/22/2008 : 09:30:01
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| Forget picking francise player under20. I would still take Brodeur or Luongo over any forward or defense. Sub Par Teams can be sucessful when they play a system and have trust in there goalie. Ask Jacque Lemer. You can draft offense but try to draft a Superstar Goalie who can steal a game. |
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Topic |
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The best NHL franchise starting player (poll) 
