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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
 Posted - 12/16/2008 : 10:40:43
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Poll Question:
Do you think that anyone besides Crosby, Malkin and Ovechkin will win the Art Ross Trophy within the next 6 years? Feel free to explain your rationale and/or offer any potential candidates
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Guest9836
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Posted - 12/16/2008 : 11:44:20
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Those 3 are pretty dominant, and would likely not all get injuries in the same season which would suggest that at least one of them will get the Art Ross each year in the near future, but there are a few guys who have an outside chance of stealing it on their own merit and maybe some luck. In my opinion, these are the guys:
Thornton (San Jose is an offensive juggernaut and he's the main reason, it could even happen this season, Thornton is always a second half performer)
Lecavalier (He's hit over 100 pts before, and he could definately do it again if his team problems were figured out)
Heatley and/or Spezza (If they get back to how they played before and had no injuries for a year, they could both rack up the pts)
Kovalchuk (This one may sound weird but If - sorry when - he moves to a real contender with a strong supporting cast he could put up numbers like Ovechkin)
Semin (You saw a bit of what he could do at the beginning of the season, he may have the slimest chance on this list, and maybe we need a couple more years of proof to even put him here, but there it is)
There are probably a few others who could have a career year and maybe sneak in there like Getzlaf, Richards, Savard, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Hossa, Iginla, Kane but I doubt it (some of these guys are getting older too) |
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admin
Forum Admin
Canada
2337 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2008 : 12:32:37
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| Great poll Matt_Roberts85. We made a couple minor tweaks and set it as the feature poll on the home page. Thanks for the contribution! |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2008 : 12:49:57
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I don't know how much you can call it 'dominating' when a trophy is shared amongst three guys in six years. Especially when we're talking about the Art Ross.
That means the guy has to win it twice every six years. Of the seventeen non-active winners, only six failed to do that. In total, the trophy has been won 59 times with only 23 winners.
If you want to talk about domination between three players, talk about the time period between 1980-81 to 2000-01. In a span of 20 years, only three players won the trophy. That is domination!
Relative to the trophy's coloured history, I really wouldn't call three winners in six years dominating. Not to mention that I think there are a few people that could take it other than them.
Make sure to cast your votes in the PickUpHockey Hall of Fame |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2008 : 14:47:02
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Dominating in the parity aged NHL isn't the same as dominating in the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's. During the 80's and 90's the NHL was also dominated by argubly 2 of the top 3 hockey players of all time and without question the greatest offensive talents in the league ever. If you took those two players out of the NHL during that period there could have been 15 different winners of the Art Ross. The point I think is that is it a foregone conclusion that in the next half dozen years and possibly more do you see anyone other then these three winning the scoring race. I don't.
edit..bored at work, waiting for leave to start...
Just out of curiosity I researched, if you took Lemieux and Gretz out of the picture between the 1980 season and 2000 season the Art Ross would have been won by 13 different people, and 4 of those players were teamates of either Lemieux or Gretz.
What I'm trying to say is comparing that time period to any other period let alone the current NHL isn't fair or reasonable.
Edit 2- I missed 1982, Stasnty was second in scoring giving 14 different players that would have won.
Individually Gretz won 10 and Lemieux won 6 Art Ross trophies.
Again, take them out and the Art Ross was won 43 times by 22 people (I'm trusting your stats Alex). These two guys made a mockery of NHL statistics. And as I said comparing their era to any other is bull pocky.
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Edited by - MSC on 12/16/2008 15:02:31 |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2008 : 14:55:57
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I know my example isn't perfect, I'm just debating it to play advocate here.
But the Art Ross really isn't up to hypothetical interpretation, because the winners are ALWAYS out of the ordinary, non average players. Your average player doesn't play as much, make as much, get as much attention, or as much power-play time as the Art Ross winners do. The whole point is that it is a superstar that wins.
You could say ''ya well if Crosby and Ovechkin weren't in the NHL it would be completely different.'' But what you are effectively saying with this statement, and yours, is ''Let's rid the NHL of superstars and then we can have a fair example of ''domination''.
Make sure to cast your votes in the PickUpHockey Hall of Fame |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2008 : 15:09:22
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No what I'm saying is there's levels of superstars...Strictly offensively speaking potential Art Ross winners (sorry Andyhack, leaving Orr out of this and all current defense because it's just not realistic to expect one to compete for the Art Ross nowadays) Gretzky and Lemiuex were on one level of superstar EVERYONE else was a few levels lower, EVEN the other superstars. If Crosby and Ovechkin played in the 80's and 90's we'd be talking about them AFTER Gretz and Lemieux.
In no way shape or form did I say directly or indirectly we should rid the NHL of it's superstars. All I'm saying is that dominating the NHL today IS NOT the same as dominating 10-20 years ago. |
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goleafsgosjnb
Top Prospect
Canada
98 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2008 : 16:22:53
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| Yes. This year in fact. I have faith in Joe Thornton, for the reasons that guest previously mentioned... My pool depends on it! |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2008 : 18:33:20
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| Patrick Kane has the potential to contend for an Art Ross. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2008 : 07:21:50
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i'll put a case of 24 ice cold coors light's on Crosby Ovetchkin and Malkin all NOT winning the art ross this year,,,, don't ask me why i just got the feeling,,, i think people forget how many extremly talented and great hockey players there are in the league,, we're all blinded by the two russian's and sid,,,,, there's iginla who could do it there Vinny even marty st louis simon gagne phil kessel even i mean Joe thornton is still the highest point producer since the lockout.... none of these players will ever own the the trophy!
Pasty |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2008 : 14:03:55
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The possibility of Ovie, Malkin and Crosby rotating the art ross is there for 10+ years easily. I think Patrick Kane may have the ability to surpass them on a really good year...but im hard pressed to find any other legitimate candidates. John Tavares maybe? I doubt it...
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Guest6166
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Posted - 12/17/2008 : 17:41:46
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| yes because if simon gagne doesnt get hurt he will win |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2008 : 23:51:19
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Here's the thing, it's all about injuries. All things being equal, I would be hard pressed to bet against the three players mentioned(Malkin, Crosby, Ovechkin) if all played a complete (and healthy) NHL season. My money would be more than likely on Crosby or Malkin as they play together so much.But looking at last year, Crosby was cruising along and then missed almost 30 games with an injury. Bam, out of the running like that.
And to MSC's point, there is a lot more parity in the league today than there was in the 80's for sure. If you look at today (or the late 90's for that matter) there are any one of 15 players that COULD win the Art Ross.
Just to put this into perspective, everyone is all hot and bothered over Malkin/Crosby/Ovechkin. As well we should. In today's NHL, a player like Malkin who has 49 points in 30 games is outstanding. He's in pace to finish the year with around 130 points. That is solid. Think of Vanek and his peers. There are 5 guys on pace to crack the 50 goal mark. That hasn't been seen in at least a decade. Maybe more!
Now, let's look back to December 18, 1983 for a moment. Gretzky tallied a goal and an assist in Edmonton's 34th game of the season. That was his 99th and 100th points. That's right, 100 points in 34 games!! Even with the difference in scoring today vs the 80's, that is completely unheard of. By the way, he finished the year with 205 points and was 79 points ahead of the next guy on the list (Paul Coffey with 126). Not only that, he was 31 goals and 32 assists ahead of the 2nd place guy in goals and assists. Speaking of goals, I stated that there are 5 players on pace to crack 50 goals this season. In the 83/84 season, Edmonton had 3 players alone that had more than 50!
Granted, I agree that Crosby, Malkin, or Ovechkin would more than likely win most scoring races today (if healthy) but there is no doubt in my mind that none of them will dominate the league like Gretzky and Lemiuex did in the 80's and 90's. Today, the leader will be most likely 5 or less points ahead of the 2nd place guy. Not the 20, 30, or even 70+ that Gretzky and Lemiuex were punishing the league by.
I know that is not the point in question, but to build on MSC's and Alex's point, these three guy winning the Art Ross even over a decade would pale in comparison to Gretzky, Lemieux, and Jagr owning the trophy over 2 decades. And it doesn't even come close to Gretzky basically owning it himself for 10 years. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2008 : 06:02:56
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Beans, I agree with you completley. I was never really trying to imply that Crosby and his buddies are dominating the league the same way that Wayne and Mario did, I dont think we will ever see something like that again, I was really just getting to the fact that It seems like those 3 are head and shoulders above the rest in terms of point production. Although the distance between them and the next batch of players isnt huge, it still seemed significant and noticable.
I still can't wait to see these 3 in action when they are 26-29 and totally in their prime. They are still so young and I think they will be hitting 150 points eventually.
It's disgusting how bad Gretzky dominated the league.... He has more assists than anyone else has total points. He could have never scored a goal and still would have been the NHL's all time point producer..... think about that.... wow
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
877 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2008 : 10:37:00
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If Peter Forsberg get a new set of limbs and could stay healthy for a year my money would be on him being able to take the trophy away from the kids, even with his age.
Chicago Blackhawks GM
Jesus didn't tap. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2008 : 10:42:41
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Heh, you'd think that if Mario didn't have a bad back and that heart condition he could still be challenging for the art ross as well. Man, imagine Mario, Sid and Malkin....what a PP that would be
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Guest5285
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Posted - 12/20/2008 : 18:28:15
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| think that patrick kane will crack the big three soon. time will tell with tavares, within 6 years he could also up there. |
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Art Ross Domination 
