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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
 Posted - 10/12/2010 : 13:01:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Sigh, again??
Tell me a single Super-Duper star that did not also have talent around them??
Orr?? - Esposito, Bucyk, Hodge
Lemieux?? - Jagr, Coffey, Trottier, Francis
Yzerman?? - Lidstrom, Shanahan, Fedorov
The list goes on and one. I do appreciate that the Oilers were really sick top to bottom, but Gretzky was only playing with 4 other players at the same time, not the whole team.
C'mon Beans, realize the truth when it's told! It's pretty obvious it had everything to do with the players around him. That's why he only averaged 1.7 points per game with LA  |
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Guest3372
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Posted - 10/13/2010 : 14:59:50
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i dunno, i'd probably have to google the lineups that gretz and mario had when they had the big 215 and 199 point seasons and see - gretzky didn't go on fire until he and his other superstar teammates matured and gelled as a unit and similarly lemeiux though great when starting out, didn't explode until he had some decent players but his team was never as stacked as gretzky's teams
i know gretzky only plays with 4 players at a time but when that team is so stacked, it's gonna create nightmares for the opposition to keep in check |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2010 : 09:33:29
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Well, let me help a little.
Through Gretzky's time in Edmonton, he spent the vast majority of his playing time with Jari Kurri. The other winger was generally a committee of people including the likes of Semenko, McClelland, Tikkanen, blah, blah,blah. Gretzky played very little time with Messier and almost no time with Anderson. The defense pairing with Gretzky was Coffey and Huddy until Coffey left and then it was a committee of guys including Lowe, Huddy, Muni, Smith.
Lemieux play almost exclusively with Jagr and often had Tochett, Recchi, or Trottier on his other wing. He also played a significant amount of his time with Coffey and Murphy.
So the comparisons are really close. Both had some wicked awesome linemates. It wasn't like Lemieux was carrying a group of Junior B players when he was dropping his huge numbers. |
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Guest9107
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Posted - 10/14/2010 : 20:39:56
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| Remember how was the goaler at that time... they was enable to stop a beach ball... nobody, with the actual rules in the NHL, will beat the Gretzky and the Lemieux seasons. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2010 : 00:19:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9107
Remember how was the goaler at that time... they was enable to stop a beach ball... nobody, with the actual rules in the NHL, will beat the Gretzky and the Lemieux seasons.
Yah, what he said.
P.S. can we get this guy a spell check
I think this topic should be killed, as 1st year stats show, Tavares is no Gretzky. Just another minor league superstar with potential. |
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hockeyrocks101
Top Prospect
Canada
43 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2010 : 15:16:57
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| No way in blue hell. Most likley Crosby, Ovechkin and stammer won't break those records. |
Edited by - hockeyrocks101 on 11/26/2010 15:17:25 |
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Awesome One
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
505 Posts |
Posted - 11/26/2010 : 15:19:33
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quote:
Originally posted by hockeyrocks101
No way in blue hell. Most likley Crosby, Ovechkin and stammer won't break those records.
Nailed it!
There was once a license plate in Toronto that abbreviated "Go Leafs" it read "Golfs". |
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Hockeylover
Top Prospect
Canada
13 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2010 : 06:48:47
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YOU are so stupid if you really think Tavares will shatter Gretzky's record.  Gretzky is a hundred times better then Tavares!
92 goals in one season.
YOU SUCK! 
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Guest4967
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Posted - 12/04/2010 : 07:06:02
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| simple answer... YES he will no doubt double or triple it. |
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doublechamp7
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
278 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2010 : 09:59:08
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| Am I to assume Guest4967 name starts with a J and ends with a ohn Tavares |
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Yewcandoit
Rookie
Canada
115 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2010 : 16:49:30
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Just wanted to point out Mario's 2000-2003 seasons.
This was in the height of all the obstruction defense in the league. Mario didn't have such a great supporting cast, but was still lighting it up. |
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shazariahl
Top Prospect
50 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2010 : 00:55:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest3372
i dunno, i'd probably have to google the lineups that gretz and mario had when they had the big 215 and 199 point seasons and see - gretzky didn't go on fire until he and his other superstar teammates matured and gelled as a unit and similarly lemeiux though great when starting out, didn't explode until he had some decent players but his team was never as stacked as gretzky's teams
i know gretzky only plays with 4 players at a time but when that team is so stacked, it's gonna create nightmares for the opposition to keep in check
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Guest8853
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Posted - 12/23/2010 : 01:05:50
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Oops, hit post before I made my comments. Anyways, I wouldn't really say "Gretzky didn't go on fire until he and his other superstar teammates matured and gelled as a unit...". His first year he tied for the Art Ross and won the Hart, without anyone of note. His 2nd year in the league he broke the records for most assists and most points in a season. In fact, other than Lemieux and Gretzky himself, that season has never been beaten by any other player... and it wasn't even close to Gretzky's best season. He won the Art Ross (obviously) and the Hart again.
His 3rd season is where he starts playing more with Kuri, but even then he spent most the season with Semenko and Lumley. But he breaks the NHL record for goals (with 92), breaks the 50 in 50 record with a staggering 50 in 39, and breaks his own record for points, putting up 212 which is the 2nd most of all time, only behind himself of course. This was his first season over 200 points, and it was only his 3rd season in the league. The Oilers still weren't winning any championships, and were still developing as a team, yet Gretzky was shattering every record in the NHL. He obviously wins the Art Ross and Hart trophies again.
His 4th season he "only" scores 196 pts, but they make the finals and are swept by the Islanders. At this point they are obviously a great team, on the cusp of winning, but can't overcome the Islanders, who were a great dynasty in their own right. But Gretzky wins another Hart and Art Ross.
5th season they win their first cup, and Gretzky breaks 200 pts again. So yes, it obviously didn't take them long to gell. But to say that Gretzky didn't really "catch fire" for a while is pretty strange IMO when we consider he won 5 Harts in his first 5 seasons, won 4 Art Ross trophies (and lost in his rookie year on the tie breaker), set records that may never be beaten, and turned an expansion team that was 16th place (out of 21 teams) his first season in the league into a championship team by their 5th season (and helped establish one of the great dynasties of NHL hockey). That is a staggering set of achievements, starting right from the moment he stepped into the NHL.
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ToXXiK1
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
696 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2010 : 03:26:51
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| No way in HELL, especially on that team of hasbeens & nevewases. |
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Guest2260
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Posted - 12/23/2010 : 06:42:12
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| I would agree that this is a bit of a silly poll clearly Taveres has not proven anything in the NHL yet and isn't even in the top 50 in scoring this year. So given that moving on to the real talent in the NHL today. Stamkos is having a break out year and could be one to watch but lets give him a few more years. Ovechkyn also has talent but I beleive a hot head and big temper he does not have the poise and composure of a Crosby or Gretzky. While Ovy will always be a talent he will never be the calibure of a Gretzky. I beleive the best player in the NHL today is Crosby. he has the best hockey sense he has confidence and composure. he is not prone to injury he just plays smart and consistant. This is what Gretzky was. SMart and consistant. If we talk raw talent I think Lemieux was a bit better the man could score at will. while I do beleive there was more scoring in the NHL in the 80's and i also think the smaller leauge fewer teams and therfore more talented teams had something to do with that there are too many filler players in the leauge today who have little talent and are forced to hook hold and grab the stars of the game in order to even attempt to catch up. I think Crosby is the only one who even has a chance to reach the talent level of Gretzky lets face it a 200+ point season is just rediculous Gretzky is the king of hockey end of story. |
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Guest2260
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Posted - 12/23/2010 : 06:50:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9044
Will Taveres shatter Gretzky record of 215 points in the NHL
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Guest2260
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Posted - 12/23/2010 : 07:00:18
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| let not kid ourselves both Gretzky and Lemieux played for extreamly talented teams and had some very talented linemates. but the difference is not in the linemates these guys had it is in the talent level of the rest of the leauge at the time. The hockey in general was smoother crisper. There were fewer teams and less players so the talent pool was high. todays NHL is so full of no talent hacks who resort to obstruction it is much harder for the stars to play to thier potential. it is possible with the leagues new stance on obstruction and teams getting away from the big dumb slow players and starting to pay more attention to some of the smaller faster players we may see the leauge get back to some higher scoring but I doubt ever to the point of Gretzky in the 80's. not to take away from the talent of Gretzky the man was blessed but he did have a perfect storm situation in the NHL he was on a super talented team noticably faster and better than all the rest a dynasty and was in a free wheeling style NHL. in order for a Crosby or Ovechkyn to acheive a 200+ point system they would not only need the skill but the star would have to align in the NHL just right to creat the same kind of misbalance of talent in a high scoring NHL system. |
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MyTeamRules
Top Prospect
72 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2010 : 12:40:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9044
Will Taveres shatter Gretzky record of 215 points in the NHL
The answer is Yes
Tavares will get 300 points, but he won't be the first SOB will get 600 points this year OMGOMG 
”If you've only got one day to live, come see the Toronto Maple Leafs. It'll seem like forever. ” - Pat |
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Will Tavares shatter Gretzky's record 
