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admin
Forum Admin



Canada
2170 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2009 :  15:00:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Poll Question:
Who would you choose first in the 2009 NHL Entry Draft?

Choices:

Victor Hedman (D)
Matt Duchene (C)
Brayden Schenn (C)
Evander Kane (C)
John Tavares (C)
Other (who?)

(Anonymous Vote)

hanley6
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
662 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2009 :  15:18:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'd like to see Toronto land Taveras, I doubt that will happen but if not than I'd have to go with Brayden Schenn... Toronto already has solid D... What they truly lack is a top of the Art point getter and quality goaltending
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8175 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2009 :  17:25:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This question is all depends on the team that is already on the ice.

For example, if I am Edmonton with the #1 pick, I take Tavares as he would be a key missing piece today and a cornerstone for the future.

If I am Detroit with the #1 pick, I take Hedman. Lidstrom has a few years left and a European Chris Pronger would be the perfect replacement when Lidstrom hangs up the skates. Plus, I have Datsyuk and Zetterberg locked up long term. If I am Pitt, again I take Hedman as Malkin and Crosby are more than enough offence.

It really all depends on the team.

If I have an expansion team and I am building around a player, I take Hedman. Saying nothing bad about Tavares, as I think he will be a great NHLer and has matured nicely through his junior seasons. But you can't teach 6'6"-230 lbs with mobility and 2 years of Pro Swedish hockey before he hits the NHL ice.

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hockster
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
437 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2009 :  19:48:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
gotta agree with everything beans said

in the league there is way more 35+ goal scorers(which i think tavares will be) than there is 6'5+ defense men who can skate, its not taht hedman is better than JT its just that he has more natural born gifts(size)

that being said as the iles i take Jt cuz that city needs a star who can resurect a franchise with his talent as well as character, and hedman is somewhat shy due to his language barrier

For my team if the flames had the pick i would take hedman as he could add an element to them that is missing.(two way D who is big and can skate.)
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Guest4161
( )

Posted - 06/17/2009 :  05:22:37  Reply with Quote
Exactly! The Islanders will pick Tavares for the same reasons hockster said. And Hedman will fit nicely in Tampa Bay.

If Toronto has the first pick I would like to see Tavares play for them. But Hedman would also be fantastic. Could you imagine a duo of Hedman and Schenn. Niceness!!!!

But if Toronto can move up to fifth spot and pick Brayden Schenn I would be more then happy.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4594 Posts

Posted - 06/17/2009 :  09:00:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not sure if all the GMs think the same way on taking draft picks based on positional need, or just the best available player. If the scouts have rated them both very very close (as I think they have with Hedman and Tavares), then I can see taking a forward or defenceman based on need. But GMs like Brian Burke have publicly stated that they go by the scouting, and they pick the best player available at the time they pick, period - whether it's a small skilled forward, power forward, big defenceman who can skate, or a playmaking winger.

Not that Hedman couldn't be a miss, because he certainly could - lots of defensive prospects don't work out. But with his size and skating, it's very likely he will be atop d-man with size and skill, a very rare combination (see: Chara, Pronger).

I'd pick Hedman.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Sensfan101
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
500 Posts

Posted - 06/17/2009 :  12:49:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How bout this Ottawa gets Hedman. Hedman and Karlsson (Swedish teamates)
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4161

Exactly! The Islanders will pick Tavares for the same reasons hockster said. And Hedman will fit nicely in Tampa Bay.

If Toronto has the first pick I would like to see Tavares play for them. But Hedman would also be fantastic. Could you imagine a duo of Hedman and Schenn. Niceness!!!!

But if Toronto can move up to fifth spot and pick Brayden Schenn I would be more then happy.



You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take Wayne Gretzky
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1530 Posts

Posted - 06/17/2009 :  13:21:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

This question is all depends on the team that is already on the ice.

For example, if I am Edmonton with the #1 pick, I take Tavares as he would be a key missing piece today and a cornerstone for the future.

If I am Detroit with the #1 pick, I take Hedman. Lidstrom has a few years left and a European Chris Pronger would be the perfect replacement when Lidstrom hangs up the skates. Plus, I have Datsyuk and Zetterberg locked up long term. If I am Pitt, again I take Hedman as Malkin and Crosby are more than enough offence.

It really all depends on the team.

If I have an expansion team and I am building around a player, I take Hedman. Saying nothing bad about Tavares, as I think he will be a great NHLer and has matured nicely through his junior seasons. But you can't teach 6'6"-230 lbs with mobility and 2 years of Pro Swedish hockey before he hits the NHL ice.




I think that if you are going to pick a future franchise player you plan for 6-7 years down the road, not necessarily your short term aspirations. If I was the Oilers GM, although top 6 scoring is a need, I pick Hedman without hesitation. Why? Because he will bring more to the team in the future than Taveras will. Simply put, I think Hedman will be better than Taveras. People can say that you cannot compare the two, as they play two different positions, but if I'm looking for who is moost valuable it is Hedman.

Tavares cannot skate. Period. Sure he gets by in juniors, but when everything is double speed and you can't think he will be lost. He is a big guy but his skating will be his downfall. I could be wrong, and I hope I'm not (because we all wanna see another superstar) but thats why I don't think Tavares will pan out.

Hedman is a fast, (somewhat) physical defenseman who excels at the offensive and defensive facets of the game. He is a dime a dozen player. I choose him no matter what.
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star



Canada
2816 Posts

Posted - 06/17/2009 :  13:39:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by leafsfan_101

Hedman is a fast, (somewhat) physical defenseman who excels at the offensive and defensive facets of the game. He is a dime a dozen player. I choose him no matter what.


Sorry to be the nerd thrusting the idiom dictionary in your face, but ''dime a dozen'' means very common. Is that what you meant to say? If anything Hedman is the opposite so I'm going to have to disagree if that is what you meant. A well built, solid skating, smart defenseman is hard to come by.

Edited by - Alex on 06/17/2009 13:40:03
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro



640 Posts

Posted - 06/17/2009 :  14:55:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My first pick would be Tavares. I just can't shake that World Junior tourny from my head when I think of the potential first picks when they went head to head. We witnessed Tavares step and put team Canada on his back all the way to the gold. Even Pat Quinn said, that was Tavares's team. Hedman on the other hand wilted and acted sort of childish in the final game. I know that should not be the way it is decided but I think that is where Tavares seperated himself as the better player and the #1 pick.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8175 Posts

Posted - 06/17/2009 :  16:17:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by leafsfan_101

quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

This question is all depends on the team that is already on the ice.

For example, if I am Edmonton with the #1 pick, I take Tavares as he would be a key missing piece today and a cornerstone for the future.

If I am Detroit with the #1 pick, I take Hedman. Lidstrom has a few years left and a European Chris Pronger would be the perfect replacement when Lidstrom hangs up the skates. Plus, I have Datsyuk and Zetterberg locked up long term. If I am Pitt, again I take Hedman as Malkin and Crosby are more than enough offence.

It really all depends on the team.

If I have an expansion team and I am building around a player, I take Hedman. Saying nothing bad about Tavares, as I think he will be a great NHLer and has matured nicely through his junior seasons. But you can't teach 6'6"-230 lbs with mobility and 2 years of Pro Swedish hockey before he hits the NHL ice.




I think that if you are going to pick a future franchise player you plan for 6-7 years down the road, not necessarily your short term aspirations. If I was the Oilers GM, although top 6 scoring is a need, I pick Hedman without hesitation. Why? Because he will bring more to the team in the future than Taveras will. Simply put, I think Hedman will be better than Taveras. People can say that you cannot compare the two, as they play two different positions, but if I'm looking for who is moost valuable it is Hedman.

Tavares cannot skate. Period. Sure he gets by in juniors, but when everything is double speed and you can't think he will be lost. He is a big guy but his skating will be his downfall. I could be wrong, and I hope I'm not (because we all wanna see another superstar) but thats why I don't think Tavares will pan out.

Hedman is a fast, (somewhat) physical defenseman who excels at the offensive and defensive facets of the game. He is a dime a dozen player. I choose him no matter what.




Completely disagree. Why?? Well, the Oilers have 4 of their top 7 defensemen 26 years old or younger. Couple this with 9 more defensemen at 23 or younger, 3 of which with NHL experience and 2 others that are 1st round draft picks.

The Oilers do not need defensemen today or tomorrow. They need scoring today and tomorrow. With the exception of Eberle, there is no really gifted offensive players in the system.

You take Hedman and continue hovering around 8th. I'll take Tavares and be in the top 10 in the league for the next 4-6 seasons.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4594 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2009 :  04:37:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ah, but Beans, the reason GMs mostly pick on the very best player, as opposed to need, is this:

If both players have great or middling first years, which player (Hedman or Tavares) do you think teams would pay more for - a centre power forward type who can pot in 30-35 goals a season, or a huge defenceman who can skate, play defence, and score?

Think about the rarer commodity, and the answer is clear - for me, anyways.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1878 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2009 :  13:06:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

Ah, but Beans, the reason GMs mostly pick on the very best player, as opposed to need, is this:

If both players have great or middling first years, which player (Hedman or Tavares) do you think teams would pay more for - a centre power forward type who can pot in 30-35 goals a season, or a huge defenceman who can skate, play defence, and score?

Think about the rarer commodity, and the answer is clear - for me, anyways.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Along the same lines knowing what you know now who do you pick Gretzky or Orr, if you were to draft them today? Looking back at these 2 players, this not a simple question. Looking at the 2 players we are questioning now, I say that Hedman is the better player now. He's already ready for the NHL. JT wont be an impact player right away.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8175 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2009 :  17:18:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We will have to agree to disagree. My opinion is that the Oilers are a better team today and in 3 year with Tavares as compared with Hedman.


And if there was a draft where Gretzky and Orr were both available, there is no way either team is disappointed with their choice.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4594 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2009 :  20:33:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mm, fair enough, no argument there really - any team would be happier with either player right now, but that is assuming that each will reach their full potential. At least one of them probably won't, and my guess is it'll be Tavares.

We'll see.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Guest5269
( )

Posted - 06/21/2009 :  20:06:36  Reply with Quote
If the Oilers had the number 1 pick, it would be hard to choose Tavares. He can score goals, but most of his points have been assists. Coupled with Hemsky's playmaking abilities, there is loads of offensive potential with no one who can finish. Imagine a top 4 defense with Souray, Visnovsky, Hedman, and Smid. Souray and Visnovsky for offense, Smid and Hedman for defense.
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Guest9235
( )

Posted - 06/21/2009 :  23:34:04  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest5269

If the Oilers had the number 1 pick, it would be hard to choose Tavares. He can score goals, but most of his points have been assists. Coupled with Hemsky's playmaking abilities, there is loads of offensive potential with no one who can finish. Imagine a top 4 defense with Souray, Visnovsky, Hedman, and Smid. Souray and Visnovsky for offense, Smid and Hedman for defense.



Tavares has 215 goals and 218 assists. Hes a really balanced player. The Oilers have plenty of prospects at d. If they were to choose i would sincerly hope they would take tavares
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Guest4803
( )

Posted - 06/22/2009 :  20:49:37  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Porkchop73

My first pick would be Tavares. I just can't shake that World Junior tourny from my head when I think of the potential first picks when they went head to head. We witnessed Tavares step and put team Canada on his back all the way to the gold. Even Pat Quinn said, that was Tavares's team. Hedman on the other hand wilted and acted sort of childish in the final game. I know that should not be the way it is decided but I think that is where Tavares seperated himself as the better player and the #1 pick.



Hodgson was the best player in that tourny, and if it wasnt for eberle we wouldnt have a gold.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8175 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2009 :  22:21:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest5269

If the Oilers had the number 1 pick, it would be hard to choose Tavares. He can score goals, but most of his points have been assists. Coupled with Hemsky's playmaking abilities, there is loads of offensive potential with no one who can finish. Imagine a top 4 defense with Souray, Visnovsky, Hedman, and Smid. Souray and Visnovsky for offense, Smid and Hedman for defense.




What about Gilbert, Grebeshkov, Young, Roy, Plante, or Balsillion??? And when did Smid become the #4 defenseman??? Wow. And Tavares is not a goal scorer?? Does he not hold various records in the OHL for GOAL scoring??? C'mon.
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
546 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2009 :  06:24:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I won't dream of the Leafs getting Hedman or Tavares. However, I really hope the Leafs can get Evander Kane. He'll be a Jerome Iginla type player. He hits, skates and scores. He's a true Power Forward already, at his young age. Granted he won't be a 120 point scorer in the NHL, but he will be a consistent 80-100 point scorer and eventually, captain an NHL club...

Kane will probably be top 6, so in that case, I guess the Buds will have to settle for B. Schenn. I'll say it, he won't be an 80 point player in the NHL. He'll top out at 60, and at best, he'll be a 2nd liner on a good team, and a 1st liner on a bad team...

"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford
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