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Guest2824
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 Posted - 01/26/2010 : 06:03:30
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Poll Question:
Who is the better goalie
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Guest2824
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Posted - 01/26/2010 : 06:06:40
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I have to go with the ''Monster'' Gustavsson is a great goaltender
Toskala not so great |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2010 : 06:16:58
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Gustavsson
GAA - 2.94
W-9
L-11
OTL-8
SOL-1
SV% .902
Toskala
GAA-3.64 W-7
L-11
OTL-2
SOL-1
SV% .874
The stats speak for themselves, Jonas may be a rookie but he has played better on a not so good team than Vesa has. Vesa used injuries as an excuse the past few seasons but heading into this year he said he was totally healthy and that he was ready to re-establish himself as a #1 goaltender. He failed miserably, allowing soft goals every f***ing game he has started except for 1 or 2, some of them of the all time blooper reel variety.
Gustavsson needs to work on his positioning and lateral movement as he overcommits to shooters often and he needs to work on his puck handling, but his athletiscm is amazing.
My vote goes to Jonas.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Guest1757
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Posted - 01/26/2010 : 07:00:51
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HA! They're both horrible...they question should have read who is the less crappier of the two. My god I'm thankful not to be a Leaf's fan; not only does every other hockey fan dislike the Leafs/their fans, but the team is just brutal
At least you'll get a decent first round draft pick this year...oh wait... |
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Guest8144
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Posted - 01/26/2010 : 10:11:46
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| There are 29 other fan bases that hate your team as well |
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Guest2894
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Posted - 01/26/2010 : 10:30:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest1757
HA! They're both horrible...they question should have read who is the less crappier of the two. My god I'm thankful not to be a Leaf's fan; not only does every other hockey fan dislike the Leafs/their fans, but the team is just brutal
At least you'll get a decent first round draft pick this year...oh wait...
Jonas may need to improve but he got my vote because he is better than alot of goalies this year(Biron,Giguere,Osgood) |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2010 : 11:05:58
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This season, absolutely it has been Gustavsson. Toskala has not been the #1 all year and has his confidence completely shaken, a la Tommy Salo. It's unfortunate as Toskala was a solid and bonefied #1 goalie in the NHL up until his injury last season. He has never regained his form.
He will find a place in the Swedish League or the KHL next season and hopefully rebound.
But as another poster has stated, Gustavsson has not had a stellar season himself. Take away the wins and loses as he is playing for a weaker team, but the GAA and save % is up to snuff for a legitimate #1 keeper but not at the elite level that TO needs to be successful. We'll see what happens as he is a RFA at the end of the season. I think Burke will give him a 2-3 year deal for average money but if he is elite by game 20 next year, look for the goalie shuffle. |
Edited by - Beans15 on 01/26/2010 11:11:29 |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2010 : 15:51:41
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| This is kinda of a question like "who's got the smarter kids in 1 of 2 special education classes" While the kids in Gustavsson class are smarter, they both dont belong in the normal kids class. Just my 2 cents, but if they keep playing Gustavsson as a starter and he gets shell shocked, he aint gonna be worth a bag of chips soon. Same thing happened to a once promising Toskala. |
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Guest2209
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Posted - 01/26/2010 : 19:41:35
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| as a long time leaf fan id have to say WHO CARES !!! |
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Guest2209
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Posted - 01/26/2010 : 19:45:00
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| leafs are CRAP...burke sez he has NO INTEREST in signing I.Kovalchuk...what the FK does he want ??..Gretzky...NO GOOD free agent pool coming up...guess another looooooong season coming up |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2010 : 20:17:58
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| Hate to say it Leafs fans, but the road ahead looks to be long the more i look into it. I mean, Kessel's a great addition, but with few prospects and even fewer quality draft picks, it's gonna take them a while to improve. They're likely to be sellers at the deadline, but with not a whole lot to sell. A team like Carolina has more to offer up to buyers with guys like Whitney, Cullen, Brind'amour, etc all being older guys who either can score or fill in in certain roles and all have experience. Toronto really has little to offer even if they do become sellers. Stajan will prob garner some worth and maybe Poni and Grabovski but i don't see the returns being all that high? |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2010 : 05:31:13
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I'll do something crazy and just answer the question . . . 
Gustavsson, no question.
In any evaluation, one must also examine the circumstances surrounding each goalie, and in this case, it just widens the gap.
Toskala was supposed to be 100% healthy. He has been a starting goalie, and has quite a few years of experience in the NHL . He is at the point in his career, age and experience-wise, that he should be peaking and at his best.
Gustavsson is a youngish goalie playing his first season in the NHL, having played in Europe beforehand for a championship winning team. So, he is a green rookie by NHL standards, so expectations would be to see what kind of skills he has, and then see if his faults can be corrected/coached.
So far?
Toskala - Grade: F
Massive fail. No confidence, and skill set has looked exceptionally weak at times . . . very inconsistent. Puzzling.
Gustavsson - Grade: B-
Has met minimum expectations for a rookie goalie with promise so far, but too early to tell if he is a bonified #1. Another full year where he plays at least half the games should answer that question, as well as his play the rest of the year, of course.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest4762
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Posted - 01/27/2010 : 06:11:07
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I disagree that Toskala ever looked like a boni-fide #1 top-flight goaltender. Sure, he lit it up as San Jose's backup for a few years, but if I was in nets my numbers would have been good on that powerhouse. Plus he only played against the weaker competition when they were resting Nabokov. It's as if they just looked at how well Kipprusoff turned out and figured San Jose was a goalie farm and they'd all be that good.
This isn't surprising, though. Toronto has a long and storied history of paying guys like All-stars who have 1 above-average season (cough, Jason Blake, Jeff Finger, Pavel Kubina, cough). The results are usually not pretty.
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2010 : 07:16:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4762
I disagree that Toskala ever looked like a boni-fide #1 top-flight goaltender. Sure, he lit it up as San Jose's backup for a few years, but if I was in nets my numbers would have been good on that powerhouse. Plus he only played against the weaker competition when they were resting Nabokov. It's as if they just looked at how well Kipprusoff turned out and figured San Jose was a goalie farm and they'd all be that good.
This isn't surprising, though. Toronto has a long and storied history of paying guys like All-stars who have 1 above-average season (cough, Jason Blake, Jeff Finger, Pavel Kubina, cough). The results are usually not pretty.
I agree that Toskala was never a bonified number one goalie. he had one solid season in Toronto and his stats were weaker then Gustavsson this year. And as for San Jose... well said guest.
The only consinstency Toskala showed in Toronto was to let in a weak goal once every two games.
I'm not praising Gustavsson because he still has a lot to work on but he's already better then Toskala, especially this year where Toskala has never been worst.
I thought this competition would be good for Vesa but no. He's done. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2010 : 08:20:56
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Do people forget that his first year in Toronto, even thought the team missed the playoffs, Toskala was in the top 10 in Wins in the NHL?? In 66 games he has 33 wins, 25 losses and 6 OTL for a better than a .500 record, a 2.74 GAA and a .904 save percentage.
Considering his save percentage and GAA in San Jose were 2.35 and .908 and we all agree that San Jose was a far superior team, I don't know what else a guy could do to be a #1 goalie??
The problem is that the NHL is a what have you done for me lately league and the past 2 season, injuries or not, Toskala has not been as effective as he was in the first 3 seasons of his NHL career.
But never a bonified #1??? All I ask is for you TO fans to be reasonable and realistic. |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2010 : 08:37:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Do people forget that his first year in Toronto, even thought the team missed the playoffs, Toskala was in the top 10 in Wins in the NHL?? In 66 games he has 33 wins, 25 losses and 6 OTL for a better than a .500 record, a 2.74 GAA and a .904 save percentage.
Considering his save percentage and GAA in San Jose were 2.35 and .908 and we all agree that San Jose was a far superior team, I don't know what else a guy could do to be a #1 goalie??
The problem is that the NHL is a what have you done for me lately league and the past 2 season, injuries or not, Toskala has not been as effective as he was in the first 3 seasons of his NHL career.
But never a bonified #1??? All I ask is for you TO fans to be reasonable and realistic.
So One good season as a starter proves that a goalie is a bonified #1 goalie? Look at Raycroft and Jim Carrey, just to name a few. They were hot and faded. Toskala was a solid backup in SJ and then had a good year in Toronto, then he was average and then that's it.
I know Toskala could of develop into a good #1 goalie but he didn't. And to me one good season doesn't make it. A goalie has to play well for 3 or 4 seasons, in my mind, to be a bonified #1 goalie in the NHL.
Backstrom, Cam Ward and Ryan Miller proved to me around last year that they were not a fluke, guys like Carey Price and Steve Mason still has to do more to prove to me they can be a bonified starter in the NHL. So does Gustavsson, he can still develop, but he will have to prove a lot in the coming seasons.
I don't know, I saw too many goalies having a great year or two and then fade away. Now, for them to be a real starter in my mind, they have to be a solid #1 goalie for many seasons. That's just me... |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2010 : 09:15:09
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Again, it's not what you have done for me, it's what have you done for me lately.
Don't recall that in San Jose he was splitting time with Nabokov for the last 2 seasons and that he was in many people's opinion the starter for his final season there?? Nabokov was openly being shopped around but because of his contract size, there was no takers. Toskala was the #1 in San Jose but how can a team paying a goalie $6 million and trying to trade him not play him??
You are correct, one season does not make a starter.
How about a record of 98-53-5-11 in 118 games for a win % .541 never having a save % lower than .900 and a GAA never higher than 2.75??
Might want to consider that these numbers are comparable to Steve Mason and Cristobal Huet and better than various other current #1 goalies (Mike Smith, Ray Emery)
It's more than one season. My point was even his first season on the non-playoff making Leafs was more than respectable and put him in the middle of the pack for all #1 goalies that season, basically saying the 3 seasons before were no fluke either.
Today, not so much. Seriously shaken with confidence and I doubt he will get another #1 shot in the NHL, so I suggest he will be overseas next year. But to say he was never a #1??? I completely disagree. |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2010 : 09:59:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Again, it's not what you have done for me, it's what have you done for me lately.
Don't recall that in San Jose he was splitting time with Nabokov for the last 2 seasons and that he was in many people's opinion the starter for his final season there?? Nabokov was openly being shopped around but because of his contract size, there was no takers. Toskala was the #1 in San Jose but how can a team paying a goalie $6 million and trying to trade him not play him??
You are correct, one season does not make a starter.
How about a record of 98-53-5-11 in 118 games for a win % .541 never having a save % lower than .900 and a GAA never higher than 2.75??
Might want to consider that these numbers are comparable to Steve Mason and Cristobal Huet and better than various other current #1 goalies (Mike Smith, Ray Emery)
It's more than one season. My point was even his first season on the non-playoff making Leafs was more than respectable and put him in the middle of the pack for all #1 goalies that season, basically saying the 3 seasons before were no fluke either.
Today, not so much. Seriously shaken with confidence and I doubt he will get another #1 shot in the NHL, so I suggest he will be overseas next year. But to say he was never a #1??? I completely disagree.
All right you have good points, stats speaks for themselves. And I remember when he came to Toronto I was glad and really looking up to him. Maybe you're right and he was at one point a bonified starter goalie in his career.
In San Jose the two years prior to leave he played 37 and 38 games, that's not starter material, it's just sharing starting duties at best. Then you're right, he had a good season with the Leafs with 66 games. If he would have kept that momentum for a year or two only then I would of considered him a bonified #1 goalie. |
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baumer
Top Prospect
82 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2010 : 13:38:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Hate to say it Leafs fans, but the road ahead looks to be long the more i look into it. I mean, Kessel's a great addition, but with few prospects and even fewer quality draft picks, it's gonna take them a while to improve. They're likely to be sellers at the deadline, but with not a whole lot to sell. A team like Carolina has more to offer up to buyers with guys like Whitney, Cullen, Brind'amour, etc all being older guys who either can score or fill in in certain roles and all have experience. Toronto really has little to offer even if they do become sellers. Stajan will prob garner some worth and maybe Poni and Grabovski but i don't see the returns being all that high?
Actually, Carolina has been shopping Brind'amour for a while but with a $3.5 mil/year cap hit next year no one wants him. The only Hurricane that might get them a decent return is Whitney. Cullen makes a little under 3 mil/year this year. Burke seems wiling to deal anyone, and that includes Hagman, Poni, Stajan, Stempniak, Exelby and Kaberle. Other than Kaberle not one player will get you a first round pick but ina package deal they all could grab you alot more than Cullen and Brind'amour. |
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Gusteroni
Rookie
Canada
225 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2010 : 12:27:27
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At the beginning of the season I had really hoped Tosk was 100% healthy and he could play 2/3rds of the season so Gustavsson could develop into an NHL goalie slowly playing the backup role. I also wanted to see what the Monster could do and if he could steal the #1 role away from Toskala. Instead it was just given to him because of Toskala's lack luster play. On the other hand I wanted Tosk to feel pressured by Gustavsson and I had hoped it would improve his play but sadly it never happened and it is all but gauranteed he won't be in the NHL next year. I voted Gustavsson, but really he has a lot of work to do and with his potential the future is bright. I just hope TO doesn't ruin the Monster ala Pogge. I believe they will need to bring in a veteran guy like Turco next year or the Monster might become exactly what Toskala is now, the Letdown.
"There are only two seasons in Canada...hockey season and not hockey season." |
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
877 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2010 : 12:52:43
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Does anyone see a comparison to the beginning of Toskala's career similiar to Halak's? Lets hope Halak doesn't fall like Toskala, but that is another topic.
Gustavsson is the better goalie as of today. Toskala needs to get out of there and fast, he needs a fresh start. I do believe he still has potential to be a #1 goalie but just not in TO.
Gustavsson does need a proven back up just to guide much like Carey Price needs one as well. Gustavsson has huge potential and even today his numbers are well on their way to becoming something special. |
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Toskala vs Gustavsson 
