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Jumbo Joe Rocks
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
410 Posts |
 Posted - 07/20/2010 : 12:55:49
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Now that the Kovy sweepstakes is over predict where these trade targets will end up???
GO SHARKS GO
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Jumbo Joe Rocks
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
410 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 13:00:15
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This is what I think
Bieksa-Montreal/Anaheim/San Jose
Kaberle-New Jersey/Edmonton/Columbus/San Jose/Toronto
Souray-San Jose/Edmonton
I know i put San Jose for every choice but they are interested in all 3 so I am not sure wich one will end up in San Jose.My best guess is Bieksa to Montreal/Kaberle to Anaheim/Souray to San Jose.
GO SHARKS GO |
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polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro
525 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 13:46:53
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I can't see Souray going anywhere. In fact, unless the Oil take on more salary than they give up in Souray, I think he will stay an Oiler.
The Oilers have clearly said they do not want to take on unnecessary salary. (Remember, they still have to sign Cogliano, Gagner, and Brule, and Deslauriers, if they choose to) For that reason, I don't see Kaberle going to Edmonton--(who would they have to give up to get Kaberle, and would he waive his NTC if he isn't moved by Aug15?)
Actually, I can't see who Edm could trade for Bieksa, but I would love to see him in EDM. I admire his style of play, even though he has been injury prone. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 14:05:56
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Kaberle has been discussed to death, he could be going anywhere for anyone at this point.
Souray - I'm not sure, I think he would go to whoever will take him. EDM has put him on waivers, so its clear that they're willing to give him away for nothing. Perhaps on re-entry waivers someone will take him for half price - EDM have the cap room to eat the hit of half of Souray's salary for 2 more years (2.7M)
Bieksa - I have heard that BUF, SJ, and ANA are likely destinations for Bieksa. BUF is the one I hear most often, teams are more inclined to trade outside their division if they can. PolishExpress, Hall for Bieksa straight up, what do you think?  .
Actually, out of VAN, its not even clear that Bieksa will be traded, although he is the most likely. I would think that MG will get rid of one of Salo or Bieksa, with Bieksa being the most likely due to no NTC. However, if a great deal offer came along for Salo, I bet that MG would ask him to waive the no trade. He just has to shed one of the salaries. |
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Guest6831
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Posted - 07/20/2010 : 14:21:07
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by Jumbo Joe Rocks[/i]
[br]This is what I think
Bieksa-Montreal/Anaheim/San Jose
Kaberle-New Jersey/Edmonton/Columbus/San Jose/Toronto
Souray-San Jose/Edmonton
I know i put San Jose for every choice but they are interested in all 3 so I am not sure wich one will end up in San Jose.My best guess is Bieksa to Montreal/Kaberle to Anaheim/Souray to San Jose.
GO SHARKS GO
How do you know they are interested in all 3 - do you work for the Sharks?
Where are your sources dude?
Also, these are all players under contract so trades would need to go down. That or via waiver pickup but that would require them being waived first.
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 14:26:03
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by polishexpress[/i]
[br]I can't see Souray going anywhere. In fact, unless the Oil take on more salary than they give up in Souray, I think he will stay an Oiler.
The Oilers have clearly said they do not want to take on unnecessary salary. (Remember, they still have to sign Cogliano, Gagner, and Brule, and Deslauriers, if they choose to) For that reason, I don't see Kaberle going to Edmonton--(who would they have to give up to get Kaberle, and would he waive his NTC if he isn't moved by Aug15?)
Actually, I can't see who Edm could trade for Bieksa, but I would love to see him in EDM. I admire his style of play, even though he has been injury prone.
Couple of things.
1) The Oilers have 23 players signed and still have over $13 million in cap space including Souray's contract.
2) They will keep Cogliano and Gagner for sure. Brule may become a UFA is the arbitration is ugly and not value in Tambellini's eyes. Deslauriers is as good as gone. They have signed Dubnyk and unless Khabibulin is in the Klink for training camp, he will be the Oilers #1. Before he was sidelined for the season, he was nearly .500 on the worst team in the NHL. As long as he is healthy, the Oilers will get every penny out of that $3.75 million a year. And they definitely will not go back to a 3 headed monster system. Dubnyk and Deslauriers are both too old to have 2 way deals so they can not send either of them down to the farm.
3) I agree that moving Souray is going to be very difficult. I think not impossible, but very difficult. The single item that I disagreed with Tambellini on was the timing of putting Souray on waivers. Why so early in the off season?? Why not wait until most of the UFA's have made their choices and the RFA's are done with arbitration?? That way, and GM's who missed the actual player they wanted or were late to the party would be more likely to go after the guy.
Here's the thing, there is value there but not enough to be a commodity. If I told you there was a defensemen who would give you 82 games and 20-25 goals and 50+ points on the PP but it will cost $5 million a season, he would be a huge draw. The issue is Souray has only been health for 2 of the last 4 years and most GM's don't like players who publically say they want out of their current team.
I still think he will actually play for the Oilers next season, at least for a while. Come Christmas, if he is healthy and has 10+ goals, he will be traded for reasonable value. |
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polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro
525 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 16:43:52
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So since Souray cleared waivers, to be put back on the NHL roster, he has to be put on re-entry waivers first, correct?
If someone claims him, EDM would be responsible for half of the salary?
PS. Nuxfan, give me the Sedins for Hall and Souray, and you got a deal...  |
Edited by - polishexpress on 07/20/2010 16:46:25 |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 17:28:05
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Bieska to montreal ,, where did you hear this,,, firstly habs do not have the cap room secondly why Markov, Subban , Hamirlk Spacek Georges Gill and O`bynrn all NHL d men,,, not to mention Carle is almost ready in the minors,,, do you just pull teams out of a hat
Pasty |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 18:38:45
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by polishexpress[/i]
[br]So since Souray cleared waivers, to be put back on the NHL roster, he has to be put on re-entry waivers first, correct?
If someone claims him, EDM would be responsible for half of the salary?
PS. Nuxfan, give me the Sedins for Hall and Souray, and you got a deal...
Not exactly, as I understand it. If a player is put on waivers, clears, but never plays any games on the farm he simple is back on his original team. However, if the player plays on the farm after clearing waiver, then he has to go back through re-entry.
Souray is an Oiler. |
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MrBoogedy
Rookie
Canada
195 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 20:20:40
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by Pasty7[/i]
[br]Bieska to montreal ,, where did you hear this,,, firstly habs do not have the cap room secondly why Markov, Subban , Hamirlk Spacek Georges Gill and O`bynrn all NHL d men,,, not to mention Carle is almost ready in the minors,,, do you just pull teams out of a hat
Pasty
Took the words right out of my mouth. I'm more inclined to think Montreal will dump a defenceman rather than pick up another. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2010 : 22:34:11
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MTL has never been mentioned as a possible landing pad for Bieksa, as MrBoogedy and Patsy say - they don't really need him.
BUF on the other hand, needs someone like him desperately, they got cleaned out on UFA-day, and have only 6 dmen signed for next year - and they have the cap space. If TOR will not deal with BUF and Kaberle (which is a shame for TOR, as I think BUF could offer up Roy in return which I think is a very good deal for both sides), then Bieksa is the next best thing currently available.
The question is, what comes back? Just draft picks, or do we get one of the cheap roster spots from BUF? VAN cannot bring back much salary, the whole purpose of moving Bieksa is to free up space or get a depth forward. |
Edited by - nuxfan on 07/20/2010 22:34:35 |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2010 : 03:48:21
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I would have to think that any team with a slight interest in Souray, would be interested in acquiring Kaberle first.
Both bring similar things to the table. But, one brings them cheaper, less likely to be injured/miss as many games, and puts up better numbers. Kaberle.
Kaberle will cost more to acquire, but it's likely worth it in the end for the team interested.
So I don't figure Souray is moving any where, until a team takes Kaberle off the market.
Irvine/prez. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2010 : 07:10:03
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nuxfan - I agree, Toronto/Buffalo doing a Kaberle/Roy deal would be great for both teams, but I honestly do not see that ever happening. Buffalo never deals with Toronto when talking about players that matter.
I think Kaberle will go first, only because I don't think Bieksa will go anywhere, and nor do I think Souray will move. I can guarantee with 99.9% certainty that Kaberle will move, though.
Where he goes would be a fantastic guess though . . . as I have absolutely no idea, and believe me, I've tried to find out. My guess right now would be San Jose, but there are a half dozen others that are possibilities.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Jumbo Joe Rocks
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
410 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2010 : 08:29:41
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by Pasty7[/i]
[br]Bieska to montreal ,, where did you hear this,,, firstly habs do not have the cap room secondly why Markov, Subban , Hamirlk Spacek Georges Gill and O`bynrn all NHL d men,,, not to mention Carle is almost ready in the minors,,, do you just pull teams out of a hat
Pasty
Pasty,Mr Boodegy and Nuxfan it is on Hockey trade rumors.com the first article.The front page.The title is Canadiens are latest name to be cranked out in Bieksa rumour mill.
GO SHARKS GO
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Edited by - Jumbo Joe Rocks on 07/21/2010 08:29:54 |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2010 : 08:58:47
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quote:
The title is Canadiens are latest name to be cranked out in Bieksa rumour mill
that thread suggests the rumour, then goes ahead and kills it, in the same thread. You have to read more than the title Joe.
The suggestion was Bieksa for Mark Tinordi (MTL 2010 first round draft pick). MG would move into new levels of awesomeness if he could swing that one. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2010 : 12:21:03
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by Jumbo Joe Rocks[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by Pasty7[/i]
[br]Bieska to montreal ,, where did you hear this,,, firstly habs do not have the cap room secondly why Markov, Subban , Hamirlk Spacek Georges Gill and O`bynrn all NHL d men,,, not to mention Carle is almost ready in the minors,,, do you just pull teams out of a hat
Pasty
Pasty,Mr Boodegy and Nuxfan it is on Hockey trade rumors.com the first article.The front page.The title is Canadiens are latest name to be cranked out in Bieksa rumour mill.
GO SHARKS GO
My god everytime i ask you for a source you bring up the least creditable source possibl. if it is not on TSN, NHL.com PuckDaddy or any other sources of this nature, IT IS PROBABLY BULL!!!
Pasty |
Edited by - Pasty7 on 07/21/2010 18:20:39 |
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polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro
525 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2010 : 13:58:55
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Pasty7, when you are bashing someone, at least have the nerve to spell and grammar check: there is no such word as uncreditable. You are looking for "least credible".
Sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but when correcting someone, please attempt proper grammar, as lack of it lowers your own credibility.
And, I didn't understand, in your opinion, are TSN and NHL.com credible or not? Surely the NHL's own website is credible? |
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Guest3153
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Posted - 07/21/2010 : 16:53:21
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Kaberle for Roy? Really? Buffalo is going to trade its top forward who is under a fairly reasonable 3 year contract to Toronto for a d-man that has one year left and who, whatever the wizard of Oz says, must be traded? If we were under normal circumstances, I would say that a straight across deal is pretty even. But we aren't. Toronto already had too many defencemen, they have no forwards, and then they signed Lebda for some reason...they NEED to move Kabby. Let's look at a comparable situation: Edm needed to trade Pronger, who was and still is a better player than Kaberle. They got a bag of pucks and free go on the merry-go-round. Now I admit K-Lowe was inept, but are we really that far off?
If the nhl's gms don't smell blood here, they are blind (or whatever you call people who can't smell...). If Burke makes a trade at all, it is going to be for a second line forward and a prospect or pick. Your best bet is San Jose with Clowe and whatever condiments SJ might sprinkle along with him. I really doubt Toronto will get a better offer than that. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2010 : 17:55:27
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quote:
Let's look at a comparable situation: Edm needed to trade Pronger, who was and still is a better player than Kaberle. They got a bag of pucks and free go on the merry-go-round. Now I admit K-Lowe was inept, but are we really that far off?
That was not a comparable situation - Pronger had a NTC, and only agreed to be moved to a handful of teams at the time. KLowe was truly handcuffed.
Kaberle can be traded to anyone, so I tend to think that the return will be fairer. BUF has a desperate need for a dman like Kaberle, and an abundance of centres. TOR has a puck moving dman and needs a centre.
If you don't like Roy, make it Connoly then, although I suspect Burke would want Roy over Connolly, both in terms of skill and contract. Regardless, they are a good match to make a deal.
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Jumbo Joe Rocks
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
410 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2010 : 18:02:23
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I dont even realy thik San Jose wqants Kaberle,I would gladly welcome him to the team though but I think Doug Wilson is more interestted in Francois Beauchimen.
GO SHARKS GO |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2010 : 18:23:27
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by Pasty7[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by Jumbo Joe Rocks[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by Pasty7[/i]
[br]Bieska to montreal ,, where did you hear this,,, firstly habs do not have the cap room secondly why Markov, Subban , Hamirlk Spacek Georges Gill and O`bynrn all NHL d men,,, not to mention Carle is almost ready in the minors,,, do you just pull teams out of a hat
Pasty
Pasty,Mr Boodegy and Nuxfan it is on Hockey trade rumors.com the first article.The front page.The title is Canadiens are latest name to be cranked out in Bieksa rumour mill.
GO SHARKS GO
My god everytime i ask you for a source you bring up the least creditable source possibl. if it is not on TSN, NHL.com PuckDaddy or any other sources of this nature, IT IS PROBABLY BULL!!!
Pasty
there you go mr. express just for your delight i took the time to fix my errors. oh and it was not meant to be bashing it is more of a pure annoyance (please correct me if i spelt that incorrectly or anything else for that matter) at fan forums being used as sources for possible trades.
Pasty |
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polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro
525 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2010 : 18:29:01
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Na, pasty, just giving you a hard time, forums themselves are places rampant with improper use of language, but I absolutely agree, fan forums are at all a source for trade rumours.
Example of lack of credibility on online forums:
"Psssst. Jumbo Joe: I heard that the Oilers are interested in trading Shawn Horcoff for Joe Thornton....you heard it here first on PickupHockey.com"
Well duh the Oilers would be interested in getting a franchise player, but it's just an rumour I started...
Never use forums as sources.... |
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Guest3153
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Posted - 07/21/2010 : 20:56:29
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| Point taken nuxfan. Nonetheless, I still don't think that a desperate gm is going to get fair value in a trade. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2010 : 21:48:49
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But Burke is not desperate - they have 8 solid dmen, a full team, and are not over the cap. He has stated he would move Kaberle for the right price, but has also said if that price is not met he'll go with him as a Leaf to start the season.
I still don't think that Burke will get full value, and that Kaberle's value goes down every day he doesn't get traded, but he'll get some value for him if he gets traded. Or he'll start the season with a very promising defensive lineup. |
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polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro
525 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2010 : 11:41:39
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Speaking of Kaberle, what is his NTC situation? According to capgeek.com, it shows he has a NTC clause that is nullified during the offseason(from draft to Aug15) if his team misses the playoffs, which TO did. It also says that Kaberle can designate 10 teams that he would be willing to be traded during the season.
Can anyone confirm whether this is accurate, or at least if it sounds accurate, because that would mean that Burke might want to get a deal done before Aug15, or wait to trade him as a rental at next year's trade deadline? |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2010 : 11:49:45
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| yes, that is accurate polishexpress. He is effectively wide open for the summer, and that window closes Aug 15. If no trade happens, then he will be with TOR for the season, and we go through the whole soap opera again in March. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2010 : 07:30:34
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the Orange County Register (via SpectorsHockey.net) has indicated that ANA is interested in either Bieksa primarily, and Souray if they cannot get Bieksa. They speculated Souray for Jason Blake. Kaberle is not in the mix here.
The link to the story does not work anymore, but the entirety of the column was posted on the canucks forum. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2010 : 10:53:04
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| well, given the new injury to Salo (torn achilles heel, out 3 months min), I think Bieksa just came off the market. The Canucks can make cap room by putting Salo on the IR, which allows them to keep Bieksa for now. |
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro
389 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2010 : 11:49:36
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by nuxfan[/i]
[br]well, given the new injury to Salo (torn achilles heel, out 3 months min), I think Bieksa just came off the market. The Canucks can make cap room by putting Salo on the IR, which allows them to keep Bieksa for now.
I think 3 months would be incredible recovery time for an achillies tear, I remember when Kyle Chipchura had his severed by a skate he was out over 12 months.
I dare say Bieksa stays now, his cap hit is only $250K than what Salo's would have been. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2010 : 13:24:11
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| a tear is not as bad as a full severing. Also, it will depend where on the tendon the tear is, and how big the tear is, before we get any sort of real estimate. Still I agree Tiller, 3 months is incredibly optimistic, and I would not be surprised if Salo went well into 2011 before being ready to play. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2010 : 13:32:05
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Actually nuxfan, from what I remember of others who have had the injury, a tear is WORSE than a severing, in many ways a longer recovery. Like you say though, in the end, 2011 maybe at the nearest for Salo's return.
Bieksa stays for sure, yep . . . which is why I thought he wasn't moving in the first place. Vancouver has learned its lesson at D - they have snakebitten defencemen who always go down with injury at the wrong times, and they need to figure at least two innjuries at any given time to prepare for.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Bieksa-Souray-Kaberle 
