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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
 Posted - 12/15/2010 : 15:11:16
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What's up in the nations capital? I heard they were selling 4 tix for 99 bucks and free parking and still not filling the stands? Is this team in trouble??? I can't imagine a Canadian city offering that kind of deal and not being full???
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spade632
Rookie
Canada
247 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 06:55:15
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There was an article in the paper here the other day about it. According to the Sens Front Office people even though not as many seats are filled the team is still doing reasonably well because the lower gate revenue is offset by less free tickets being given out.
More generally, I've always thought that Ottawa has a tough job securing a fan base since the team happens to be right in the middle of two of the most hard-core fan bases in professional sports (Toronto and Montreal).
As an aside, it's pretty sad when the Captain gets booed in his own building (as happens pretty much every Leafs game in Ottawa).
By the same token, the fact that the loudest I've heard Sens fans lately (albeit through the TV) was the "Heatley Sucks!" chants when San Jose played here (it was Heatley's first game back since asking out of Ottawa). It would be nice to see that level of passion / loudness in a "Go Sens Go!" chant (and to hear it consistently, not just in response to a "Go Leafs/Habs/Oilers/etc Go" Chant).
Ideally, the atmosphere in Montreal would be what to shoot for. I was lucky enough to see Game 6 of the Habs/Pens series in May and the Bell Centre was pure MADNESS (granted it was the playoffs, but still). Rue St. Catherine after the game was pretty nuts too.
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 07:15:36
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Any Ottawa fans who care to comment. Honestly I never see them on this site
Go OILERS Go!!! |
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TheRC
Rookie
105 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 15:24:23
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Ottawa has fans?
"If at first you don't succeed, you fail" |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 15:31:33
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i live in montreal where do i see most of my NHL games live? Ottawa
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 21:08:26
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This is an example of where a Suburban arena does not work, even in Canada. This is why teams won't work in Atlantic Canada, Saskatchewan, etc. People love hockey but there is a limit.
Teams that win get fans. Teams that lose can get fans if their arena is in the right spot (see Toronto).
In all seriousness, this really is a great example of setting up a great arena in a prime location with a reasonable team (not great, just reasonable) is a winning combination. |
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Guest4748
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Posted - 12/16/2010 : 21:32:57
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I've been to Ottawa last year (vs Sidney Crosby and the pens). I'm a habs fan and I'm used to the Bell Centre. I can tell you right away, people DON'T seem to care about hockey there, they just talk with each other.
Atmosphere in Montreal = CRAZY
Atmosphere in Ottawa = No atmosphere at all.
People arrive just 15 minutes before the game starts, it's kinda sad. I saw a great game but, the atmosphere was nuts, and there were empty seats, clearly. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 22:10:13
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| Ottawa's rink is on the outskirts of town or something isn't it? Kinda like the situation in Phoenix? Bad location? Is that what you meant Beans? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 22:16:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Ottawa's rink is on the outskirts of town or something isn't it? Kinda like the situation in Phoenix? Bad location? Is that what you meant Beans?
Word.
It's in Kanada, 20+ km outside of downtown.
NHL arena work in highly populated areas of cities with great public transit. Out of town arena's do not work. Even in Phoenix, which is a crap market, the attendance was up when it was in Phoenix and not Glendale. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2010 : 22:21:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Ottawa's rink is on the outskirts of town or something isn't it? Kinda like the situation in Phoenix? Bad location? Is that what you meant Beans?
yeah it is almost exactly the same style as pheonix. People didn't think it would be so bad having rinks away from the downtown area's (plenty of room for parking less traffic etc..) But rinks out of town just don't work, perfect example 25 or so of my work colleagues and i went down to Nashville last year spent 5 days saw the Habs play the Preds the bills play the Titans and then the Sharks play the Preds. flight from Burlington Vermont (45 min drive from my place) there and back with all three tickets for the sporting events and 5 nights in a downtown Nashville hotel 735$. Why did we pick Nashville over Phoenix? I woke up in my hotel room had my morning beer walked to a wide variety of restaurants then walked to the rink and on sunday walked only a little bit furthur to the field. If we had gone to phoneix we would have had to rent cars because the Arena and the Football stadium are no where near eachother!!!!
oh and anyone wanting to go on a sweet vacation this winter Nashville was a rocking town i had a blast the beer and food are cheap the women are gorgeous (and maybe just a little too easy,  but thats a different story) the hockey seats are dirt cheap Hotels very well priced aswell and the bars are awsome!
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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spade632
Rookie
Canada
247 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2010 : 07:08:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4748
Atmosphere in Montreal = CRAZY
Atmosphere in Ottawa = No atmosphere at all.
People arrive just 15 minutes before the game starts, it's kinda sad. I saw a great game but, the atmosphere was nuts, and there were empty seats, clearly.
Guest - That about sums it up. There is sometimes a passable atmosphere - the '07 Cup finals, fpr example. But, even then it doesn't hold a candle to Toronto/Montreal/etc.
Beans,
Absolutely, the fact that the arena is built in Kanata (what used to be the middle of nowhere) is brutal. [For the record, it's about 26km from downtown proper and 39km or so from Orleans (in the East End)].
The Sens used to play at the Civic Centre which is the home of the 67s (Ottawa's OHL team). That arena is right downtown but only seats ~10,000, clearly not NHL size (but fairly big by Junior standards). by comparison, the Rober Guertin arena, " the Bob," where the Gatineau Olympiques play (across the bridge in Quebec) holds about 4,000. That said, it has a very "distinct" atmosphere.
I'm not sure of all the details but there were tax breaks involved in building the arena in Kanata. Still, the traffic to get out there on game nights is brutal - not to mention getting out of the parking lot after the game.
It doesn't help matters that there aren't really any restaurants/bars in the vicinity either. That kind of kills the spontaneous post-game celebrations - As opposed to Toronto/Montreal/etc where the arena is right downtown and close to everything.
In Montreal in May there was the street/tailgate party before the game and then a massive spontaneous party/celebration on St. Catherine after the game. That can't really happen in Ottawa. (at least not with the fans from the arena spilling onto the streets downtown - though to be fair, after Crosby's gold medal goal at the Olympics, Elgin St (a main downtown artery) was JAMMED.)
Fan-wise, as I mentioned earlier Ottawa's stuck between two hardcore fanbases. Compounding that is the fact that Ottawa's a government town with lots of people who have allegiances to other teams and then there's Ottawa's reputation as "the city that fun forgot."
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Edited by - spade632 on 12/17/2010 07:21:22 |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2010 : 08:29:10
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Well, here's hoping ANY new arena's get built near or in the downtown core of the cities building them! Rogers Centre / GM Place is right smack in the downtown Vancouver area, just like the ACC and Bell Centre! It is so freakin' easy for people to get there on transit! Anyone from the Fraser Valley (or out that way) can hop on the skytrain for 3 bucks and you're there in 20-25 mins, with no worry of parking or concerns with having a couple of beers and having to drive! Same goes for the North Shore. We (can i say "we" in this case Beans as i'm referring to Vancouver?  ) have the "Seabus" which is a passenger ferry which takes 12 mins from the North Shore to dowtown where another 5 mins on the skytrain takes you directly to the stadium!!! So easy! Anyone in the downtown core can walk, bus or cab with ease!
I don't get it, who are the morons behind the decisions to build these arena's where 95% of the people have to drive? I'm guessing, and it's purely a guess, that not even 40% of fans here drive to the game! |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2010 : 12:17:32
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There is actually absolutely nothing wrong with where the arena is. It is right off the Queensway and has its own exit. There seems to be nothing wrong with where they are when they are selling out. And lets keep this in perspective: it is nothing like Phoenix. The Sens are still averaging around 17K, not the dismal 9-10 k the yotes usually draw. Fact of the matter is that the area in Kanata, around the arena has completely developed too. People could make a day out of it in otherwords. Something for the marketers to think about.
Further, the big talk right now is keeping congestion OUT of downtown, not in. That is a major problem here, and if the arena was on, say, Lebreton flats as was tossed around, it would be a nightmare. So the Eastenders have to drive a little, seems like a small price to pay for a true fan. And contrary to a previous poster, there is in fact restaurants and bars in the area, and right in the arena itself. Theres the wave pool, the Sensplex etc...
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Edited by - Odin on 12/17/2010 12:22:56 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2010 : 13:56:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Odin
There is actually absolutely nothing wrong with where the arena is. It is right off the Queensway and has its own exit. There seems to be nothing wrong with where they are when they are selling out. And lets keep this in perspective: it is nothing like Phoenix. The Sens are still averaging around 17K, not the dismal 9-10 k the yotes usually draw. Fact of the matter is that the area in Kanata, around the arena has completely developed too. People could make a day out of it in otherwords. Something for the marketers to think about.
Further, the big talk right now is keeping congestion OUT of downtown, not in. That is a major problem here, and if the arena was on, say, Lebreton flats as was tossed around, it would be a nightmare. So the Eastenders have to drive a little, seems like a small price to pay for a true fan. And contrary to a previous poster, there is in fact restaurants and bars in the area, and right in the arena itself. Theres the wave pool, the Sensplex etc...
Who is going to a wavepool before or after a hockey game or concert or anything else that is going in an arena??? Seriously?? Traffic problems?? Most games are in the evenings after 7pm or on week ends. One of the main points behind a DT arena is the use of public transit.
Really, it's all about restaurants, pubs, bars, hotels, and public transit. No one cares about wave pools, movie theatres, etc. Those are the 4 key pieces to success near an arena. Most locations in NA that has been successful in building a stadium(be it hockey or otherwise) in the past 10-15 years have focused on this model. It works.
Having a stadium away from the core of the population in any city has not proven to be as successful. Not saying it won't be succesful, but not as successful as the DT facilities.
You are correct. 17k fans in Ottawa is not comparable to 9k in Phoenix. However, if Ottawa was drawing in 19k+ there is something to the story, especially if they are doing the kind of near give aways as discussed. They are not selling out if the building capacity is over 19k (20k with standing room) and can't give away 4 tickets for $99???
That's ugly. |
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spade632
Rookie
Canada
247 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2010 : 14:04:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Odin
There is actually absolutely nothing wrong with where the arena is. It is right off the Queensway and has its own exit.
Still, the traffic out to the arena on game nights is pretty brutal. Though there is the OC Transpo shuttle bus service as well (in my experience it's faster).
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And lets keep this in perspective: it is nothing like Phoenix. The Sens are still averaging around 17K, not the dismal 9-10 k the yotes usually draw.
Full agreement there. I wasn't trying to argue that there are no fans.
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Fact of the matter is that the area in Kanata, around the arena has completely developed too. People could make a day out of it in otherwords.
While it's true that there has been tons of development in Kanata since the arena was first built. The fact remains that the closest thing to the arena is a massive car dealership. Not exactly where someone would want to "make a day of it."
Besides, even if you did want to make a daytrip out to Kanata it's not like most people could do that for weekday games as they have jobs.
quote:
Further, the big talk right now is keeping congestion OUT of downtown, not in. That is a major problem here, and if the arena was on, say, Lebreton flats as was tossed around, it would be a nightmare.
Believe me, I know what Ottawa traffic is like and the ongoing "Transit Plan" saga. Still, despite complaints the local bus service is pretty good.
As for the arena being at Lebreton Flats, it's right on the Transitway (for the non-Ottawa people, it's the main throughfare for the bus service) and an arena there would no doubt encourage more transit use. Yes, parking would be a problem but they manage to hold Bluesfest on Lebreton Flats every year (12 day music festival with 250+ acts and up to 40,000 people on site on any given night) without too many problems.
As well, there's the Canadian War Museum at Lebreton Flats and you're a relatively short walk (and even shorter bus ride)from Little Italy and downtown proper. There's also the bike path along the river (though it's not as nice in winter).
quote:
And contrary to a previous poster, there is in fact restaurants and bars in the area, and right in the arena itself. Theres the wave pool, the Sensplex etc...
True, there are restaurants in the arena. But they're WAY overpriced since they're in the arena and frankly, the food isn't that great.
As for restaurants in the area, the closest one to the arena proper that I know of is Eastside Mario's and that's still ~3kms away. (Correct me if I'm wrong Odin)
Still, you can't have a spontaneous celebtration that pours into the streets like you can in Montreal/Toronto/Vancouver etc..
Finally, for the benefit of those who don't know the area > here's a link to the location of the arena so you can eyeball it yourself. http://bit.ly/eMRUGp
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Edited by - spade632 on 12/17/2010 14:06:15 |
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doublechamp7
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
278 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2010 : 14:06:09
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Fair weather fans?
I also think the fact that Ottawa isn't a huge city(im not sure of the exact population) and the fans arn't excactly "Hockey Mad" like other citys, no offense do any crazy senator fans, plus as others have already said, the fact it's in Kanata, not actually in Ottawa doesn't help the entire situation.
IM A CHAMPION! |
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spade632
Rookie
Canada
247 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2010 : 14:11:22
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doublechamp -
Technically, Kanata is part (a suburb) of Ottawa as the city is amalgamated.
Population wise, if you count the Ottawa-Gatineau region (the canadian census counts this as a "Census Metropolitan Area") the popultation is around 1.2 million. It's about 1.5 million if you count the "National Capital Region" which is a bit bigger. |
Edited by - spade632 on 12/17/2010 14:15:34 |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2010 : 14:27:27
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| As a Senator's fan from afar, I have only gotten to see my team live when they have come to Alberta. I wish i could support them in Ottawa and plan to trip for a game in Ottawa soon. I do take offense to the title a fair weather fan as I take crap and stand proud as a fan, even if I'm giving or taking critisizm of my own team. |
Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 12/17/2010 14:35:02 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2010 : 14:29:46
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quote:
Originally posted by spade632
doublechamp -
Technically, Kanata is part (a suburb) of Ottawa as the city is amalgamated.
Population wise, if you count the Ottawa-Gatineau region (the canadian census counts this as a "Census Metropolitan Area") the popultation is around 1.2 million. It's about 1.5 million if you count the "National Capital Region" which is a bit bigger.
For anyone in Alberta, this would be like the Oilers building an arena in St. Albert or Sherwood Park and the Flames building an arena in Airdie or Cochrane. It's close enough to be 'in the city' but it's not really in the city. Pain in the junk to get to for a game compared to a building downtown.
Population wise, Ottawa-Gatineau is listed at 1.22 million by stats Canada. Calgary is virtually the same size. Edmonton is smaller by about 50k people. Insignficant.
Both those cities have Arenas in town. Calgary's is very close to downtown and Edmonton's soon will be downtown. Neither have significant traffic issues due to the stadiums.Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver were all able to build stadiums in their downtown areas and traffic never stopped them. They are between 2 and 5 times the population of Ottawa.
Weak excuse. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2010 : 14:35:31
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Spade...thanks for the map link, i didn't realize Ottawa and Hull were THAT close. I knew they were close, but if not for a provincial border, Hull would basically be a suburb!
What about hotels? Are there hotels around the arena? I know here in Vancouver, we get a lot of people from Vancouver Island coming over and staying the night (as well as from other areas such as the interior). Not season ticket holders, but some do make multiple trips to Vancouver to see the Canucks and this means a night or two in a hotel. If the arena was out in the 'burbs, it might mean a rental car on top of their other costs, especially those from the island who often take the ferry then a bus or shuttle to the downtown core.
I cannot think for a second that an arena outside of the downtown area would work better here, certainly not for the fans anyway!!! |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2010 : 18:17:07
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Don't worry people, Odin only writes things to disagree and be contrary. But this one takes the cake, lol . . .
1) The #1 issue I hear from the few Sens fans that exist is that the arena isn't downtown.
I hate the Sens and couldn't give a crap about them, but the issue about distance, and the traffic jam after games is constantly talked about. It has been talked about at length by commentators and sportscasters who go to these games as well. It's a fact - the arena is too far away, especially for a population that isn't that big to begin with.
And nothing Odin ever says will change that.
Can you imagine the traffic jam when the building is actually full? Cripes.
2) "the big talk right now is keeping congestion OUT of downtown, not in"
The . . . big talk? What big person is talking big, hmm? At least it's bigger than medium talk . . . and obviously larger than small talk, like you'd have at a coffee shop. 
All kidding aside, you have to show me some pictures of what you call downtown congestionat 7pm and onward in downtown Ottawa, Odin. That would be classic! Then we could evaluate the big talk.
3) Attendance
Actually, attendance isn't that bad for Ottawa, and I would say that this year is just a normal dip. I mean, they could MAXIMISE their attendance by putting the arena downtown, but all things considered, they are ok.
Well, one out of three ain't bad, Odin.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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spade632
Rookie
Canada
247 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2010 : 12:44:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Spade...thanks for the map link, i didn't realize Ottawa and Hull were THAT close. I knew they were close, but if not for a provincial border, Hull would basically be a suburb!
You're welcome. Yeah, it's close -- it's especially handy for the underagers (18) at university in Ottawa. They routinely cross the bridge to Gatineau to buy booze/go clubbing since the drinking age is 18 in Quebec vs. 19 in Ontario (and they sell beer in corner stores).
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What about hotels? Are there hotels around the arena?
The closest one I know of it about 2km away.
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I cannot think for a second that an arena outside of the downtown area would work better here, certainly not for the fans anyway!!!
I agree. Scotiabank Place would likely be better situated at Lebreton. Oh well - it's not like that's going to happen.
Generally speaking, an arena downtown will be an economic benefit to the downtown core as people will go from the arena to the bars / restaurants after the game.
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Edited by - spade632 on 12/18/2010 12:45:49 |
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spade632
Rookie
Canada
247 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2010 : 06:15:32
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Just for the record, I was at last night's Sens vs. Caps game - it was one of the "Metro Family Games" - 4 tix (in the upper 300s), 4 hotdogs, and 4 drinks - 99$. Announced attendance was ~19,500.
The arena's still too far away though. Incidentally, the friend I was at the game with and I were discussing how the arena would have been much better placed at LeBreton Flats.
As far as the game itself, Ottawa blew a 2-0 lead after the first by the 1:20 mark of the second. It was 3-2 Caps 7mins into the 2nd (which was the final score). |
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Guest9466
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Posted - 12/21/2010 : 15:30:15
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Fair weather fans? It's true we do have some, actually quite a bit. They only cheer for ottawa when toronto or montreal aren't in the building, and they jump ship when ottawa isn't playing so hot.
We do have a hardcore fanbase but sadly, like myself, are a younger generation who grew up watching them play and can't necessarily afford to go to every game for many different reasons.
I know its been said, but I'll reiterate it. We are a hockey city, but ottawa is still a young team. Before they were here you cheered for Toronto or Montreal, and most of those people still do cheer for those teams. Give it a bit so we can weed them out.
It's tough to get an atmosphere going at the SBP. I went to one game for every round of the 07 playoff run. In the conference finals I was standing up cheering during a commercial stoppage, and the gentleman beside me said excuse me, but I paid a lot of money to sit here and watch the game. My retort was that I paid a lot of money to come and cheer for my team, but you get the picture. Now the atmosphere Downtown during the games that I didn't go to SBP, it as amazing! |
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Sens attendance woes 
