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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
   

3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2011 : 21:58:08
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quote:
Trade Kaberle 2 seasons ago and he is worth more than likely a solid player and a top draft pick (1st or 2nd round). Move Kaberle in the past off season and he's worth a 2nd line player and a 2nd round draft pick. Trade him before Christmas and he's worth a 2nd line player. Move him at the trade deadline he's worth a 2nd round pick.
I recall a couple of years ago, there was talk of a pending trade at the deadline, Kaberle for Jeff Carter, straight up - but it fell through at the last minute, or one team got cold feet... man what could have been. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
    

6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2011 : 22:06:49
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quote: Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
Trade Kaberle 2 seasons ago and he is worth more than likely a solid player and a top draft pick (1st or 2nd round). Move Kaberle in the past off season and he's worth a 2nd line player and a 2nd round draft pick. Trade him before Christmas and he's worth a 2nd line player. Move him at the trade deadline he's worth a 2nd round pick.
I recall a couple of years ago, there was talk of a pending trade at the deadline, Kaberle for Jeff Carter, straight up - but it fell through at the last minute, or one team got cold feet... man what could have been.
I sure hope it wasn't Burke who got the "cold feet"??? |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
    

6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2011 : 22:31:35
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Beans, maybe you should try explaining how a player facing UFA status isn't worth as much because of the lack of guarantee the team getting him will be able to resign him by using someone else, other than a Leaf, as an example???
How about Brad Richards? Tomas Vokoun? Maybe even Tim Connolly or Milan Hejduk?
Maybe then, they can look beyond your "leaf hatred" and your "Kaberle hate-on" and understand your point?  |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
  

Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 02:07:14
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Alex i already posted what St. Louis got for Thackuk as close as 2007 as a 36 year old UFA at the trade deadline...1st rd pick, 3rd rd pick, 4th rd pick and Glen Metropolit .....
Don`t tell me what some teams and GM`s will do to save their a$$ when they are desperate at the trade deadline, never say never, strange things are done sometimes.
Can you imagine the pressure SJ management is under this year to win ?? Perrenial playoff losers...Every year deja - vous, same s**t over and over....could be a lot of firings and player movement there this year with another early playoff exit.....Most likely destination for a player like kaberle. Expect them to over-pay for some - ones services.
p.s....the Kaberle for Jeff Carter trade was nixed by JFJ.....the flyers wanted Alex Steen as part of the package with kaberle and JFJ backed out, he said there was no way he was including Steen as part of the deal. good ole JFJ, what a hockey mind.  |
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T-RAV
Top Prospect

Canada
75 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 03:26:39
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Oh, JFJ! I wonder what kind of resume you had for someone to trust you to build a team. What a effin' IDIOT. Screwed this team for a years to come.
Peace and Respect (except to JFJ) |
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Beans15
Moderator
    

Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 07:02:51
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quote: Originally posted by The Duke
Alex i already posted what St. Louis got for Thackuk as close as 2007 as a 36 year old UFA at the trade deadline...1st rd pick, 3rd rd pick, 4th rd pick and Glen Metropolit .....
Don`t tell me what some teams and GM`s will do to save their a$$ when they are desperate at the trade deadline, never say never, strange things are done sometimes.
Can you imagine the pressure SJ management is under this year to win ?? Perrenial playoff losers...Every year deja - vous, same s**t over and over....could be a lot of firings and player movement there this year with another early playoff exit.....Most likely destination for a player like kaberle. Expect them to over-pay for some - ones services.
p.s....the Kaberle for Jeff Carter trade was nixed by JFJ.....the flyers wanted Alex Steen as part of the package with kaberle and JFJ backed out, he said there was no way he was including Steen as part of the deal. good ole JFJ, what a hockey mind. 
So basically Duke, if I am reading this correctly, you are hanging your entire theory on a trade that happened 4 years ago??? Really?? One single trade by a moron GM that happened 4 years ago.
Wow. That's all I can say. Something I learned a long time ago is that you can be right and you can be dead right. When you are right, people may not always agree but at least you can get your point across. When you are dead right, people won't agree even thought the logic is sound.
I am dead right with Duke, it's obvious it doesn't matter what I say. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
    

6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 09:15:08
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quote: Originally posted by The Duke
Alex i already posted what St. Louis got for Thackuk as close as 2007 as a 36 year old UFA at the trade deadline...1st rd pick, 3rd rd pick, 4th rd pick and Glen Metropolit .....
Don`t tell me what some teams and GM`s will do to save their a$$ when they are desperate at the trade deadline, never say never, strange things are done sometimes.
Can you imagine the pressure SJ management is under this year to win ?? Perrenial playoff losers...Every year deja - vous, same s**t over and over....could be a lot of firings and player movement there this year with another early playoff exit.....Most likely destination for a player like kaberle. Expect them to over-pay for some - ones services.
p.s....the Kaberle for Jeff Carter trade was nixed by JFJ.....the flyers wanted Alex Steen as part of the package with kaberle and JFJ backed out, he said there was no way he was including Steen as part of the deal. good ole JFJ, what a hockey mind. 
Duke....i hate stepping into an argument between you and Beans, and it's kinda ironic that i'm on his side since he and i have butted heads so many times on different issues, but it's tough not to. I really don't see Beans as having a "hate on" for Kaberle. He's simply trying to explain, that while maybe there are deals that are exeptions, such as the Tkachuk deal, for the most part, UFA's at the deadline USUALLY won't fetch their real worth as compared to if that player were under contract. Is that too difficult to see? Sure, Burke may be able to suck someone in and strike gold with a deal, but it's not the NORM!
If you take the time to reread my posts in this thread, you will see where i've implied that it's always possible that someone will overpay however it's not often. For example, i said.....
[quote]The only way his value goes up is if a team truly feels he is the ONE piece missing for their cup run[quote]
This implies that perhaps his value will be deemed higher by a team (or teams) who decide that they figure he's the guy to put them over the top?
To summarize, IN MOST CASES with a player who is about to become a UFA, when dealt at or near the trade deadline, will not bring in return as much as the same or similar player if they were under a longer term contract.
Can we agree on this???
As for SJ, i don't see them being under any more pressure than they've been in the past. In fact, with them only now beginning to rally and look like a potential playoff team, they might have less expectations than they have in the past when they've been at the top of the conference. Perhaps a lower seed is what that team needs? As far as dmen go, i don't think they need Kaberle as much as they do a shut down dman.
I was thinking Washington as a destination, but with Mike Green, maybe they will look for a guy more on the defensive side as well? Who knows, either or both could be interested though.
As far as the Carter/Kaberle thing, if Steen was needed to make the deal work, at least that's a little better (if you're JFJ). Steen is developing into a nice young forward and while Carter is a stud, that trade wouldn't have been terribly lopsided if it were Steen and Kaberle! |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
   

3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 09:56:23
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quote:
Alex i already posted what St. Louis got for Thackuk as close as 2007 as a 36 year old UFA at the trade deadline...1st rd pick, 3rd rd pick, 4th rd pick and Glen Metropolit .....
If Kaberle gets 3 draft picks and a reliable 3rd liner in return at the trade deadline, I'll eat my shorts. |
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro
 

Canada
360 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 11:35:19
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How ironic that the moronic JFJ saw potential in Steen & that bright hockey mind of Cliff Fletcher didn't. Steen in hine sight would of been a quality first line centre one of the apparent missing links. Don't get me wrong living in Toronto I recall the abundance of screw ups Ferguson made and Carter would of surely been a great presence to the leaf line ups. But less we not forget the moron never cost you two top 5 picks for a player I would not consider a top 50 player in the nhl (Please do not make me bring out a list of the players better then him as it will only add further disappointment)
I have made my point earlier in the thread on why Kaberle will not warrant a lot at the deadline as Bean's has tried to hammer through but is apparently none realistic and leaf hating with his prognonsis because two big trades have happened over the last 5 yrs. Crosby lead the penguins in scoring that playoffs not Hossa and Hossa warrants much more then Kaberle any day because he is a top 15 offensive & overall player who is very undermined defensively. Kaberle on the other hand is a great offensive talent and a defensive nightmare. Defense wins championships not another offensive defenseman who is soft in his own zone. See how many points Mike Green puts up in the playoffs the last couple of yrs and you get a prognosis on what kaberle will give a playoff team as they are both top 5 offensive dman and potential liabilites in their own end even though Green has improved.
Perfect example of why Kaberle won't go to SJ. Brian Campbell & a 7th rd pick were traded to SJ at the deadline a couple of yrs ago for a 3rd / 4th line player in steve bernier and a first round pick (Tyler Ennis). SJ lost the West semi's to Dallas. You really think SJ will give up another 1st round pick and a role player two yrs after it didn't work the first time? Again, if Kaberle does move it will be for below his real worth and with that he won't be traded as Burke is a man who refuses to be low balled. If anything the leafs may sign Kaberle to a one yr deal and then trade him before the draft hoping to get a first round pick they have already traded away and a quality role player.
Enough with Kaberle anyway and lets discuss real possibilities. Erik Johnson the former num 1 pick is on the hot seat and is likely to be traded other names being thrown around out of Columbus are Garon, Huselius, Clark & Pahlsoon. Jason Arnott is expected to be on the move maybe back to Nashville. Gonchar, Phillips & Fisher are all possibly on the move and whether or not their is any truth to it rumor has it the leafs are trying to acquire Steen or Boyes for either Beauchemin or Versteeg.
Heres a trade to speculate for leaf fans Steen or Boyes & Erik Johnson for Kaberle & Beauchemin. Allows you free up cap space & gives you potenial assets for the future which is really all their is in the minor league system as well. Aulie, Johnson & Schenn give you a respectible back end and Brian Burke loves to build his teams from the D out. I am sure many will think T.O is getting wripped off but removing Beauchemins contract off the books and atleast getting great potential for Kaberle beats losing Kaberle for SFA.
Lemieux owns Gretzky |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
    

6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 13:38:19
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quote: Originally posted by Mario 66 Heres a trade to speculate for leaf fans Steen or Boyes & Erik Johnson for Kaberle & Beauchemin. Allows you free up cap space & gives you potenial assets for the future which is really all their is in the minor league system as well. Aulie, Johnson & Schenn give you a respectible back end and Brian Burke loves to build his teams from the D out. I am sure many will think T.O is getting wripped off but removing Beauchemins contract off the books and atleast getting great potential for Kaberle beats losing Kaberle for SFA.
Lemieux owns Gretzky
Mario, am i missing something? "TO getting ripped off"??? I'd say it's the other way around. Beauchemin is a little overpaid though he could improve in a new environment but Kaberle could amount to a rental. To a Blues team not currently in the playoffs (damn you Beans ), that's not a lot to recieve for Steen/Boyes AND Erik Johnson? Am i reading that trade propostion correctly??? If Burke can pull that off, he is a god! |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
   

3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 13:54:39
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so, I'm seeing a lot of rumour regarding the Kings large interest in Penner - anything from Oil-land on that? |
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
 

Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 14:02:09
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Just curious, where did you hear Erik Johnson was on the block and "likely to be traded"? I haven't heard that one. |
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro
 

Canada
360 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 14:38:17
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No Alex the leafs are appearently in talks with St. Louis about acquiring either boyes or Steen for either Beauchemin or Versteeg. On the link below saw that Johnson could be moved for the right asking price and just threw idea's together. St. Louis is asking for a cornerstone young forward and I was going to add Dimiggio or Kadri (potential) into the trade but new their would be a huge unessecary uproar.
Ryan 93 says johnson could be on the move for a corner stone young forward again just a rumour thrown around does not mean their is much valididy to it. http://proicehockey.about.com/od/rumorcentral/a/trade_rumors.htm
Lemieux owns Gretzky |
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Beans15
Moderator
    

Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 14:45:28
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quote: Originally posted by nuxfan
so, I'm seeing a lot of rumour regarding the Kings large interest in Penner - anything from Oil-land on that?
Nothing I have heard but to be honest I have not been very close to trade rumors. Been a little busy at work.
Penner makes sense. They have been looking for that goal scorer type player and Penner is a huge body as well. I would think the Oilers would want some young, talented defensemen in return. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
    

6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 15:34:13
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quote: Originally posted by ryan93
Just curious, where did you hear Erik Johnson was on the block and "likely to be traded"? I haven't heard that one.
Ryan, i heard / read something about this too. Not sure how valid it is and i can't imagine why they'd be trading him? I can only guess that they figure they would have to give up something good to get something good?
Mario...not sure if misunderstood you but if i read it right, your proposal was Boyes OR Steen, AND Johnson for Beauchemin and Kaberle. This is the deal i was saying would be ridiculously in favour of the Leafs. |
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro
 

Canada
360 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 15:42:07
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Alex the leafs (rumor has it ) are in talks with SL for the services of either Boyes or Steen for Beauchemin or Versteeg
I simply threw out their for s**ts & giggles if SL is indeed serious about trading Johnson that Boyes / Steen would not be a bad move for Kaberle (obviously if they can work out a contract, sorry never included that didn't really put much thought in it initially was kind of throwing it out there for a feel) and Beauchemin. Saw that SL wants a cornerstone fwd and decided not to throw either Dimiggio or Kadri (potential obviously) in their for the expected backlash. Like i said was just throwing it out their my apoligies for any confusion.
Lemieux owns Gretzky |
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro
 

Canada
360 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 15:48:44
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Sorry Alex re-read your post as i am in a lecture and kind of just skimming over responces. I get how you see it is in the Leafs favor but if a contract could be worked out with Kaberle (even though he said he wants to stay in the east so the thought is quite ficticious) then he is the best offensive option out of the group and both beauchemin & he could add some depth on a young STL team. Regardless, it amuses me that the leafs are in rumors to acquire players that they have disposed of in the past and attempting to dispose players they have recently acquired. Obviously all is still speculation
Lemieux owns Gretzky |
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Guest9722
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Posted - 02/03/2011 : 15:56:45
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Mario
That seems to be the Leafs history. In the past the Leafs have traded away youngs guys because they did not have the patience to wait for them to develop. It usually seemed like the player would develop into fine NHL'ers. Then the Leafs would bring them back prior to them retiring....
I am not saying that Boyes or Steen are ready to hang them up, I just think that it would be amusing as they have a history of bringng back thier former players. |
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
 

Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 17:23:43
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Ok, i hadn't heard anything on the Johnson front so was kind of surprised to see his name mentioned here. I'd be surprised to see the Blues move him, but if the right offer comes along, you never know i guess.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
    

6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 19:01:39
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quote: Originally posted by ryan93
Ok, i hadn't heard anything on the Johnson front so was kind of surprised to see his name mentioned here. I'd be surprised to see the Blues move him, but if the right offer comes along, you never know i guess.
I agree. I find it hard to believe they're shopping him! Isn't Brewer a UFA as well? Wonder if they plan on resigning him? |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
  

Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 19:11:59
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Beans, Alex, Nuxfan, Mario... i agree that UFA`s don`t get their worth at trade deadline compared to under contract players.
I`m just putting forth the point that a gem of a UFA will bring back more than just your average UFA, and teams will over-pay for this type of player to make a push for Lord Stanley. Thats why i brought up the Tkackuk trade, to make this point.
Teams under pressure to win from management, under pressure to put a fan base in the seats, and GM`s on the bubble of a lost job will do and have done stupid short short term - gain trades which will set the team back long - term...happens all the time.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
    

6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 19:21:08
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quote: Originally posted by The Duke
Beans, Alex, Nuxfan, Mario... i agree that UFA`s don`t get their worth at trade deadline compared to under contract players.
Whew, thank you! 
quote:
I`m just putting forth the point that a gem of a UFA will bring back more than just your average UFA, and teams will over-pay for this type of player to make a push for Lord Stanley. Thats why i brought up the Tkackuk trade, to make this point.
I guess this is true, however this case really would depend on what you consider a gem (as compared to what other would). Yes, Kaberle is a gem compared to a guy like say Ian White. BUT, it's not as though he's Shea Weber. As far as available dmen, yes, he's the best as far as offensively and may in fact be able to pry more away from a team than some of us are predicting? As far as the Tkachuk deal, personally at that point, i didn't consider him a "gem", rather that was just a really poor overpayment by a GM.
quote:
Teams under pressure to win from management, under pressure to put a fan base in the seats, and GM`s on the bubble of a lost job will do and have done stupid short short term - gain trades which will set the team back long - term...happens all the time.
I agree, these things happen.....sometimes (but not often). Don't get me wrong, BB could very well trade Kaberle to SJ for Pavelski and two first rounders (obvious exaggeration), but odds are, he won't completely burn someone.
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Edited by - Alex116 on 02/04/2011 12:50:29 |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
  

Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 19:21:52
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Guest, the Leafs are very weak down the middle. I think bringing back Boyes or Steen ( 28 years old and 26 ) is a good idea. Both are pretty decent centers and should help the leafs.
You can never be too deep at the center ice position. A career winger cannot make the adjustment to center, it`s too difficult. Going from center to the wing is a much easier adjustment, any1 who has played hockey knows this. It`s not a offense thing, it`s defenseive responsibilities which a career winger has never faced.
Yes, its true TO has brought back some former leafs over the years, but they have mostly been between the age of 35 - 40, used out and over the hill. These 2 young men have not yet reached 30. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
   

3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 19:29:05
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quote:
Guest, the Leafs are very weak down the middle. I think bringing back Boyes or Steen ( 28 years old and 26 ) is a good idea. Both are pretty decent centers and should help the leafs.
I'm pretty sure that Boyes is a winger, no? |
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
 

Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2011 : 19:49:49
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T-RAV
Top Prospect

Canada
75 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2011 : 03:36:26
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quote: Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
I'm pretty sure that Boyes is a winger, no?
According to NHL.com in the stats section, both Boyes and Steen are both Centremen. |
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Guest4606
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Posted - 02/04/2011 : 04:06:41
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Oh my God if i here of The most Over rated D man in the NHL Kaberle again im going to Blow my head off..Thje guy isnt that good ..2nd rounder i give up for him... |
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Beans15
Moderator
    

Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2011 : 07:53:29
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Ya Duke, although Kaberle is brilliant offensively, he is a pylon defensively in most cases. If you were to do as much homework in defensive stats as you did with the number of points he scored I would venture to say he is no where near the top in blocked shots, hits, takeaway, etc. I am leaving plus/minus alone as playing on a poor team can make that look worse than it is, but I would venture to say that he was one of the worst Leafs in +/- since the lock out as well.
Considering the other UFA defensemen that may become rental players (Jovnovski, Erhoff, McCabe, Brewer, Pitkanen, Andy Greene) I would put Kaberle near the top of the list but not at the complete top of the list. Furthermore, is a team going to lose if they have a player like McCabe as a rental over Kaberle. More than likely not.
Kaberle is not the big ticket you are making him out to be until July when a team can secure his services for an extended period of time.
Have you noticed that even Mr "Blue and White" Slozo has not even tried to support your side of the arguement on this one??? Consider that the guy who see things in the bluest of tints can see that Kaberle is not worth what you are implying he is. |
Edited by - Beans15 on 02/04/2011 07:54:36 |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
   

3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2011 : 08:05:16
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quote:
According to NHL.com in the stats section, both Boyes and Steen are both Centremen.
Hm, that is odd, wikipedia agrees with you. According to where I see him play on the ice, he's a winger. I've never seen him line up at centre ever. |
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro
 

Canada
360 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2011 : 08:16:55
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Duke i get what you are trying to show but the odds of Kaberle warranting a big time return at the deadline is about the same as Gustavsoon being your future goalie. There is a chance but history would show its not likely to happen.
Lemieux owns Gretzky |
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JonPolley
Top Prospect

Canada
49 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2011 : 08:48:20
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Gus to the A.. someones on their way out.. woot! |
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Guest3087
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Posted - 02/04/2011 : 10:21:17
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BEANS IS A f**GET!!!!!!!!!!! |
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n/a
deleted
   

4809 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2011 : 10:34:36
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quote: Originally posted by Beans15
Ya Duke, although Kaberle is brilliant offensively, he is a pylon defensively in most cases. If you were to do as much homework in defensive stats as you did with the number of points he scored I would venture to say he is no where near the top in blocked shots, hits, takeaway, etc. I am leaving plus/minus alone as playing on a poor team can make that look worse than it is, but I would venture to say that he was one of the worst Leafs in +/- since the lock out as well.
Considering the other UFA defensemen that may become rental players (Jovnovski, Erhoff, McCabe, Brewer, Pitkanen, Andy Greene) I would put Kaberle near the top of the list but not at the complete top of the list. Furthermore, is a team going to lose if they have a player like McCabe as a rental over Kaberle. More than likely not.
Kaberle is not the big ticket you are making him out to be until July when a team can secure his services for an extended period of time.
Have you noticed that even Mr "Blue and White" Slozo has not even tried to support your side of the arguement on this one??? Consider that the guy who see things in the bluest of tints can see that Kaberle is not worth what you are implying he is.
Silence does not mean agreement, and it also does nto mean disagreement.
It just means I am sick and tired of talking about Tomas Kaberle, that's all! 
No, he doesn't have a good +/- right now, but on Toronto, -5 doesn't look terrible either. He is a power play guy, so yeah, your +/- is going to be average at best when a majority of your points come on the power play. But to call him a pylon means you don't watch him very often - he is far from that. And, he is not a defenceman who takes chances and pinches in just for offensive opportunities . . . he generally makes sound, smart plays and decisions.
Just this last Tuesday I was at the Florida game, and I gotta say - he was very good in his own zone with outlet passes, carrying it out of the zone, etc. He is the go to guy to bring it out and often bring it into the offensive zone, and he doesn't make mistakes very often - none in the game I saw, and I watched him and Schenn closely. In a game where he only got a minor assist, he was one of the better defencemen.
No, I think he would be quite valuable for a solid playoff team. Whether one will overpay for his services . . . well, who knows? We'll see.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest4803
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Posted - 02/04/2011 : 12:51:54
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for a thread labelled trade deadline 2011 predictions there hasnt been very many predictions made......just more debate over one of the worst teams in the league... |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
    

6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2011 : 13:04:29
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quote: Originally posted by slozo But to call him a pylon means you don't watch him very often - he is far from that. And, he is not a defenceman who takes chances and pinches in just for offensive opportunities . . . he generally makes sound, smart plays and decisions.
Slozo, i'm happy to hear/read this. I've been wondering for a while now just how good Kaberle is. I keep hearing that he's a "pylon" or "he's terrible in his own end", etc but i never thought he was THAT bad? I know his offensive talents from the back end and all but is he really as bad as everyone alludes to on D? I know he's not defensively in the Scott Stevens / Larry Robinson / Rod Langway, etc class, but he seems to be more compared defensively to a minor leaguer?
Aside from Leaf bashing, what's up? (or is that it?)..... |
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Beans15
Moderator
    

Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2011 : 14:03:03
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Alright, I would agree that the term Pylon might be a bit harsh. However, I don't recall Kaberle being one of the Leafs top penalty killers is he? So, if he is not a PK guy on one of the worst defensive teams in the NHL, is it not fair to say that defense is not his strong suit??
Much like a Lubomir Visnovsky, he's simply an offensive guy. No harm in that. It is what it is.
Finally, I still find it interesting in a heated debate about the worth of a players like Kaberle at the deadline, still no opinion from Mr Leafs. Nothing. No idea other than will a team overpay.
Slozo, what would an overpay for Kaberle look like??? |
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro
 

Canada
360 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2011 : 11:50:31
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I showed earlier in this thread when Brian Campbell left Buffalo for SJ at the deadline a couple yrs ago after 3 straight 45+ points season. He was traded for Steve Bernier & a first round pick (Tyler Ennis) is there any reasons to debate that Kaberle deserves more? They are both offensive minded defensman with lower then average defense.
Lemieux owns Gretzky |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
   

3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2011 : 13:31:13
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quote:
I showed earlier in this thread when Brian Campbell left Buffalo for SJ at the deadline a couple yrs ago after 3 straight 45+ points season. He was traded for Steve Bernier & a first round pick (Tyler Ennis) is there any reasons to debate that Kaberle deserves more? They are both offensive minded defensman with lower then average defense.
The rebuttal used to that argument is Kaberle's NTC, and how it will affect the number of bidders, and by extension the quality of bids. Campbell didn't have a NMC/NTC that year, and there were likely all kinds of bids for his services - bidding wars happen. Kaberle may only name 2 or 3 teams he's willing to move to - that changes things.
One only has to look at the Heatley deal to see what "fair return" you can get when your player is only willing to waive the clause for a handful of teams. |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
 

640 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2011 : 14:46:27
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What is overpaying for a player anyways. Lets say that a pending UFA defencemen gets traded for a depth player and a second round pick. Oh lets not forget in the cap world the gm also frees up millions in cap room too. If the pick turns out to be a bum then everyone will argue that getting that dman was a steal. But if the pick ends up a surprise and tears up the NHL, the GM turns uses the millions in cap space to get another top player, then everyone will argue that the other team overpaid for the Dman.
One thing that most people overlook is that GM's don't necessarily have to get something in return for a UFA by trading them before July. Depending on the UFA the GM could get huge cap space suddenly available to them. What they do with that cap space depends on the GM and what is available.
So lets say that by a GM not trading their UFA defencemen he creates 4.5mil in cap space when the UFA is left unsigned and already has 3mil in cap space available to him. He now can sign a 7mil player come July. That should be a damn good player at that money.
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Sensfan101
PickupHockey Pro
 

Canada
500 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2011 : 15:06:51
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With Malkin on Injured reserve the Pens have some cap room and will probabely be in the market for a forward. Any guesses who?
You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take Wayne Gretzky |
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