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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
 Posted - 02/21/2011 : 18:24:08
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Rumour out of Colorado according to Bob Mckenzie says the avs may be looking to move the young center, now this may be a player Burke may move one of his new prospects and draft picks for, or if i had may way the Habs would make a play for,, if he is really available i hope Gauthier makes an offer,,, but Stastny played for team USA i could deffinetly seem Burke putting together an offer for this 25 year old center!
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2011 : 18:52:53
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If this is true, the deal would more likely be both 1st round picks, a prospect, and a roster player.
Stastny is a superstar. With the expection of an injury reduced season, he is a 20+ goal-70+ point guy every season. He is big (6'-200+lbs), and has one of the most gifted set of hands in the NHL today. He's only 25 years old and he was signed to a 5 year deal in 2008. He's got a favourable deal (Under $7 millon) through the 13-14 season. There is nothing not to like about getting that kid on your team.
Granted, Stastny would fit nicely into Burke's plans, but the story was actually broken in Colorado today with the deal that is rumors to be Jack Johnson, Jonathan Bernier, and Jarrett Stoll for Stastny, TJ Galiardi, and a pick/prospect. Now, this deal is interesting as COL has went on record by saying they are looking for a young franchise goalie. Furthermore, a group of Jack Johnson, Erik Johnson, and Jonathan Bernier is pretty sick to think about facing for the next 10ish years. With the break through of Matt Duchene, maybe COL feels they have an extra #1 centre to shop??
Unfortunately Leaf fans, if Stastny is on the market and that deal from LA is on the table, there is nothing the Leafs can put together that would come close to matching it. Unless in included Schenn and Reimer plus more.
Simply put, the idea fits in TO plans but it's not going to happen. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2011 : 19:01:59
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If Stastny is on the block, than no one is safe in COL.
I agree with Beans, he is a legit number 1 centre on nearly every team in the NHL. Big, young, PPG since he joined the league, and paid appropriately and fairly. He might be what Burke covets, but I also think that another team would put together a more attractive package than Burke can match. The deal from LA sounds crazy good. I don't know if Bernier is going to be a legit goalie, but the 2 Johnsons on your backend (PARDON? :-) is crazy good.
COL might have the second or 3rd best 1-2 punch up the middle (PIT, VAN, STL are the only others I can think of that come close. I'm surprised that they'd be willing to move Statsny, even if Duchene is breaking out. How many teams are spoiled to have 2 solid young centres to build around? Some teams don't even have one! |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2011 : 19:02:39
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| you know, the way all these deals are shaping up, trade deadline day is going to be a bust. I can just see TSN now, blogging away about nothing... |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2011 : 19:13:58
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COL is deep down the middle today. Stastny, Duchene, McClement, O'Reilly, and Dupuis). That is depth. Apparently, the report I read stated the only untouchable on the COL roster is Duchene.
Let's not forget that COL has not had a great 2nd half of the year and is virtually out of the playoff race. They are currently tied with FLA and TOR just ahead of NJ, OTT, and EDM. Considering the soaring Leafs and Devils, COL has a more likely chance for a lottery pick than not.
If they can get a 2nd blue chip defensemen and their cornerstone goalkeeper, they will make the move. Let's not forget this GM was very successful with a team comprised of Roy, Bourque, Foote, Sakic, and Forsberg. How far off would they be with a line up of Bernier, Johnson, Johnson, Duchene, and who knows their #5 pick could be a Coutier, Nuggent-Hopkins, et al.
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2011 : 19:16:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
If this is true, the deal would more likely be both 1st round picks, a prospect, and a roster player.
Stastny is a superstar. With the expection of an injury reduced season, he is a 20+ goal-70+ point guy every season. He is big (6'-200+lbs), and has one of the most gifted set of hands in the NHL today. He's only 25 years old and he was signed to a 5 year deal in 2008. He's got a favourable deal (Under $7 millon) through the 13-14 season. There is nothing not to like about getting that kid on your team.
Granted, Stastny would fit nicely into Burke's plans, but the story was actually broken in Colorado today with the deal that is rumors to be Jack Johnson, Jonathan Bernier, and Jarrett Stoll for Stastny, TJ Galiardi, and a pick/prospect. Now, this deal is interesting as COL has went on record by saying they are looking for a young franchise goalie. Furthermore, a group of Jack Johnson, Erik Johnson, and Jonathan Bernier is pretty sick to think about facing for the next 10ish years. With the break through of Matt Duchene, maybe COL feels they have an extra #1 centre to shop??
Unfortunately Leaf fans, if Stastny is on the market and that deal from LA is on the table, there is nothing the Leafs can put together that would come close to matching it. Unless in included Schenn and Reimer plus more.
Simply put, the idea fits in TO plans but it's not going to happen.
I agree with all of this Beans,,, but as you said There is nothing to not like about Stastny, young big girfted,,, i would think there would be at least 8 teams making offers for him, L.A is a good chance ,, but why not your beloved Oilers they have prospects galore maybe a 25 year old proven center to play with Hall and Eberle to build around.. i maybe the Oilers offer up Roy, and Magnus? like i said although i don't think the habs could compete with the L.A offer but as a fan i would hope they would at least inquire about what it would take...
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2011 : 19:25:03
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Pasty, I am not one of those fans that assume that every player in the NHL is going to be traded to my favorite team. Firstly, there is only one GM in the NHL dumb enough to make a division rival better and we all know who that is. I am sure that neither Tambellini or Sherman are interested in swapping talent inside the division. Secondly, I read last week that COL is looking for their cornerstone goalie and I believe that. They have struggled with various different goalies since Roy retired and none of them have done the job. For that reason, the Oilers do not have anything in net that would be considered cornerstone. Roy is a prospect and a shaky one at that.
So sure, I would love to see Stastny in the middle of Hall and Eberle. That would be sick. However, it is more likely that Gretzky himself makes a return to Edmonton so why even discuss it.
There may be other teams in the NHL that would be interested in Stastny, but how many (other than LA) have 2 legitimate cornerstone goalies and would be willing to part with one of them for Stastny??
Logic still have to factor into the equation, right?? |
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2011 : 19:34:54
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It's no secret the Rangers are looking for a #1 center, and Paul Stastny is a guy i'd love to see fill that role. Ideally i'd like to see them sign Brad Richards in July without having to give up anything (or at the most something insignificant to secure his bargaining rights at the draft)...but if they feel they won't be able to lure Richards, then Stastny would be a nice fit.
If it's true that they are shopping him though, as already stated i could really see LA taking a run at him. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2011 : 19:59:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Pasty, I am not one of those fans that assume that every player in the NHL is going to be traded to my favorite team. Firstly, there is only one GM in the NHL dumb enough to make a division rival better and we all know who that is. I am sure that neither Tambellini or Sherman are interested in swapping talent inside the division. Secondly, I read last week that COL is looking for their cornerstone goalie and I believe that. They have struggled with various different goalies since Roy retired and none of them have done the job. For that reason, the Oilers do not have anything in net that would be considered cornerstone. Roy is a prospect and a shaky one at that.
So sure, I would love to see Stastny in the middle of Hall and Eberle. That would be sick. However, it is more likely that Gretzky himself makes a return to Edmonton so why even discuss it.
There may be other teams in the NHL that would be interested in Stastny, but how many (other than LA) have 2 legitimate cornerstone goalies and would be willing to part with one of them for Stastny??
Logic still have to factor into the equation, right??
when you put that way i do agree,, what i meant was i am sure with a guy of Stastny pedigree and abilty on the market i am sure there will be close to a dozen teams who inquire about if they have a shot not nessiarily put an offer out there but at least see if they have something the avs are interested in,,, but you are probably right about the goalie which limits the teams who have the kind of return the Avs will be looking for,,, the only other team off the top of my head that have a good young goalie that may fit the bill is Schneider in Vancouver ,, but again the nucks are divisional rivals and jsut need Stastny or do they have the cap space
so you're probably right its L.A or he stays,,
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2011 : 20:53:13
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I wouldn't say only LA or Vancouver (even though I don't think the 6 game Schnider has played says a thing). Here are a few othersI would say is reasonable to think has a player for Stastny:
Nashville - The goalie factor. Rinne is a beast but Lindback (although a little premature) would be a keeper nearly anywhere. They also have a lot of young talents(ranked #1 on hockeyfutures.com). But Nashville is fine down the middle with young talent like Cal O'Reilly and Colin Wilson.
Boston - Tuuka Rask is wasting away on the bench as a legitiamate #1 keeper. But they are also deep down the middle and would have to drop serious salary to make the deal work so I would say they are the least likely team involved.
There are also a few teams with solid keepers that are always looking to dump salary or add talents (PHX, FLA, ATL) but they are also mostly UFA/RFA goalies that COL could pick up for nothing in July.
There are a few suitors out there, but LA does seem to be the most logical. Unfortunately for both you and I, EDM nor TO really fit the mold for this deal.
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2011 : 21:01:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I
There are a few suitors out there, but LA does seem to be the most logical. Unfortunately for both you and I, EDM nor TO really fit the mold for this deal.
Ehem it would be fortunatly for me that TO do not ft the mold... habs fan remember beans ... hahaha
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2011 : 21:28:49
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quote:
I wouldn't say only LA or Vancouver (even though I don't think the 6 game Schnider has played says a thing). Here are a few othersI would say is reasonable to think has a player for Stastny:
Nashville - The goalie factor. Rinne is a beast but Lindback (although a little premature) would be a keeper nearly anywhere. They also have a lot of young talents(ranked #1 on hockeyfutures.com). But Nashville is fine down the middle with young talent like Cal O'Reilly and Colin Wilson.
Beans, you kill me - you do realize that Schneider and Lindback have played the same number of games this year (17), and that Schneid's record, GAA, and SV% are all better than Lindbacks?
I'm not sure how Schneider's play "doesn't say a thing", whereas Lindback is a "keeper nearly everywhere"... both are quality goalies in their rookie year with upside out the wazoo. Apparently Gillis has been fielding a ton of questions about Schneider, but he's staying for this season.
And back on topic.
If COL is indeed looking for a solid goalie prospect, then there are only a few teams that would have that, and you mentioned them all - LA, COL, NSH, BOS. I might put NYI in there as well, they do seem to have some quality goalies in the farm (Poulin comes to mind) but they're all injured right now. I might have added MIN with Harding, but he's been injured all year as well.
The thing about LA - they already have a top centre in Kopitar, who is also making nearly 7M a year. I'm not sure why they would give up so much to add another top line centre? What they really need are scoring wingers (James Neal type players), not 7M centres. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2011 : 21:54:50
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You are correct Nux, but did you miss the 'a little premature' comment I made?? Secondly, name me a goalie from Nashville that has been garbage in the past, 8-10 years?? Now, how many keepers have the Canucks scouts sniffed out?? History says something there, no??? I'd also like to throw out that Lindback was drafted 2 years ago and cracked the NHL this year while Schneider has to cut his teeth in the AHL for 4 years before his NHL look??
Personally, that tells me something but I am the one who is not a fan of either Nashville or Vancouver, so take it as you will.
Finally, why on earth would Vancouver want Stastny when they have Sedin and Kesler as their top 2 Centres?? Vancouver is one of the small handful of teams that would not be interested in Stastny, so the point is irrelevant.
Pasty, my apolgies. For some reason, I don't believe that is the first time I made that mistake. Maybe you a Porkchop has a similar avatar?? I don't know what I was thinking.  |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2011 : 23:30:17
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quote:
You are correct Nux, but did you miss the 'a little premature' comment I made?? Secondly, name me a goalie from Nashville that has been garbage in the past, 8-10 years?? Now, how many keepers have the Canucks scouts sniffed out?? History says something there, no??? I'd also like to throw out that Lindback was drafted 2 years ago and cracked the NHL this year while Schneider has to cut his teeth in the AHL for 4 years before his NHL look??
Personally, that tells me something but I am the one who is not a fan of either Nashville or Vancouver, so take it as you will.
I think your whole comment was "a little premature" . Nashville has indeed drafted better goalies than the Canucks - that does not make Lindberg better than Schneider.
Nor does the fact that he cracked the NSH lineup 2 years after he was drafted, as opposed to 4 for Schneider - that should tell you more about the goalie situation with the big club more than anything. Schneider has been kept on the farm largely because he would never get enough games in with the Canucks to develop properly, as Luongo is one of the few goalies in the league that consistently starts 75-ish games a year. This season, they decided that he would start 60-65, which meant the backup would get enough starts to make Schneider's promotion worthwhile. It is the only reason he has spent so much time on the farm.
quote:
Finally, why on earth would Vancouver want Stastny when they have Sedin and Kesler as their top 2 Centres?? Vancouver is one of the small handful of teams that would not be interested in Stastny, so the point is irrelevant.
I didn't say that Vancouver *would* be interested in Statsny - only that they were one of the few teams that had 2 very good goalies on their roster, where COL might be interested in one of them (along with BOS, NSH, LA). The Canucks would not be a good fit, as you say we have one of the best 1-2 centre combo's in the league, and no cap space to make that happen.
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2011 : 05:15:43
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Wow . . . Stastny on the trading block? That is huge!
I see your logic Beans, and on the face of it, it makes more sense for LA or as you mentioned Nashville to be able to get Stastny . . . but the one thing not mentioned is how willing a GM is to deal and bargain and make a trade. I think we have all seen how Burke operates, and he is probably the most active GM out there - partly because of where the Leafs are, but partly because of his nature - in terms of dealing/acquiring players.
On top of that . . . I think everyone is overstating Stastny's value here just a bit. His numbers have taken a bit of a dip this year, and yeah, he is a 70 point player, a top line guy . . . but to call him a full-blown superstar might be a reach. He's almost there, but not quite.
There is a rumour also that LA wants Brad Richards.
Trying to come up with a package that Burke might deal for Stastny . . . Gustavsson (or Rynnas, good goalie prospect), one of the first rounders, and a second rounder. Or maybe to go a bit higher in the bidding, Gustavsson/goalie prospect, Bozak, and a first rounder.
From Toronto's end, I don't see Reimer, Schenn ever moving in the near future.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2011 : 09:52:43
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quote:
On top of that . . . I think everyone is overstating Stastny's value here just a bit. His numbers have taken a bit of a dip this year, and yeah, he is a 70 point player, a top line guy . . . but to call him a full-blown superstar might be a reach. He's almost there, but not quite.
I said it in another thread as well - Stastny is one of the top 20 centres in the game today, I think you are understating his value. Big (6'1, 205) and mobile, a gifted playmaking centre that plays in every situation for COL and averages around 20 minutes a night. He's been nearly PPG his entire career, and is only off that mark slightly this year, in a horrible year for the Avs - he's currently tied for second in team scoring, 2 behind Duschene. And he's only 25.
Superstar is a stretch. But certainly not far off. I see him 7 times a year vs the Canucks, plus other times vs EDM or CGY when they're on HNIC, so I've seen a lot of what he can do. The potential deal that LA was rumoured to be offering would be a pretty even trade IMO. |
Edited by - nuxfan on 02/22/2011 09:53:47 |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2011 : 10:03:34
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All this being said, I'm still puzzled as to why COL would even want to trade Stastny. Some teams go decades without having a player like him on the roster. They have 2 great centres in him and Duchene, now a great defenseman to build a defensive core around - the future for COL looks solid right now.
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polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro
525 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2011 : 11:00:53
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I think the reason why this rumour about Stastny would be floated around is that, as of now, Colorado doesn't have very reliable goaltending.
They just traded away Anderson, and got back Elliot. I don't know much about him, but Elliott doesn't seem to be a great goaltending solution.
Though many teams have won cups recently without superstar goalies, that doesn't mean all GM's have decided they will look for cheap goaltending.
IF COL were to be able to grab Bernier from LA, having to give up one of their top centers, then they would potentially solve one of their biggest outstanding holes in their lineup: their goalie.
They haven't had a goaltending solution they like since Roy.(I don't count Anderson, since they just traded him away, showing they didn't think he was right for the organization) |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2011 : 11:16:47
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I too am a little shocked the Avs would be looking to trade this guy. Having two solid centers is pretty nice, ahem, cough, cough, Sakic/Forsberg!
I guess if they're in need of a franchise goalie bad enough this might be the only way they see the possibility of getting one though?
Here's a thought though, what if they make this proposed deal with LA, or something similar, with thoughts about moving ahead with a FA signing? I don't have time to check cap space, but could they have enough to make a run at Brad Richards in the summer? |
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2011 : 11:22:43
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nuxfan - at least I can agree with one thing you said . . . Stastny being shopped is a head-scratcher.
6'1", 205 lbs is not big in the NHL - it is barely average.
I don't see Stastny as any more "mobile" than any other skilled forward, sorry (does mobile mean agile, or fast, or a combination of both, btw?).
Nearly a ppg his entire career? Well, I guess that is how you phrase a player whose two full seasons have been 78 and 79 points, sure. But his lowest total is probably going to be this year, as he is on pace for . . . 62 points. No, Colorado sucks this year, so I don't read too much into it, but . . . definitley not a star in the league.
I am not trying to sell him short - he is a solid, first line guy, a good young center with potential perhaps to edge up over the 80 point mark with skilled linemates and good chemistry. And he doesn't mind mixing it up physically in his play.
I am just stating that he is definitely short of star status at this point, and yet you state you disagree and then say he isn't a superstar yet either.
I think you may be quibbling over a very minor difference, here.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2011 : 12:29:56
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quote:
: polishexpress
IF COL were to be able to grab Bernier from LA, having to give up one of their top centers, then they would potentially solve one of their biggest outstanding holes in their lineup: their goalie.
I'm not sure how Bernier solves COL's goaltending issues. Bernier is nothing more than a prospect very early in his NHL career, albeit he comes with a lot of hype. He has done very little to distinguish himself this year (6-8-2, .904 SV%, 2.72 GAA). Those numbers are only a bit better than Elliott's numbers, and Elliott played on the worst team in the NHL.
So how is Bernier the solution to their goalie problem, and Elliott is not (or could not be)?
They clearly don't need goalie this year anymore - they could just wait until the summer, and go after Vokoun, or make a trade then.
@ slozo:
Fair enough, I think we're quibbling over the relative worth of one of the top-20 centres in the NHL. I think he is worth quite a bit more than a mediocre backup goalie with heart problems, Bozak and a late first round draft pick.
I guess we'll see what happens up to deadline day. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2011 : 13:52:29
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Question for Slozo and all Leaf fans for that matter.....
Would you be ok with Burke involving Reimer in a package for Stastny? Slozo, you mentioned him with Schenn as likely not moving yet it wasn't all that long ago he was a somewhat unknown prospect, no? Hasn't this kid surprised everyone? Would it not possibly be wise to package him up in a deal for Stastny (sell high)? Can / will he continue to be this good? Sure, it's a gamble, but i think if i were a Leaf fan, i'd be okay with taking a chance that he's closer to the next Craig Anderson than he is Patrick Roy? IMO, at this point, Stastny is far more proven as far as knowing what you're getting. Of course, there's others that would be needed in this deal. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2011 : 14:12:57
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What surprises me is the assumption that the Leafs could dump a hugely underacheiving player in Bozak to a team looking to add goaltending and defense. COL has 5 centres in their line up. That is the challenge(opportunity) they have. Duchene is a stud, Stastny is a stud, O'Reilly is showing signs of being a stud, and McClement and Dupuis are very fine 3rd and 4th line centres. Why would COL use the top asset they have to pick up a below average centre(adding to their challenge) and a draft pick in the late part of the 1st round when they will most likely have a lottery pick or very close to it this year??
The deal on the table (apparently) from LA is for one of the top young defensemen in the game today in Jack Johnson and one of the top goalie prospects in the game in Bernier and a top 6 forward in Jarett Stoll. How does a deal for Bozak and a couple of draft picks measure up to that??
The only way TO is in this deal at all is if the deal included Schenn and Reimer to start. Nothing less. Colorado can get better draft picks from other teams than what TO could give. Plus, it would most likely cost them a player like Kulemin. So, a comparable deal to the COL/LA deal would be Schenn, Reimer, and Kulemin for Stastny, Galiardi, and a draft pick/prospect. Considering that Burke has already unloaded 2 of his top 4 defensemen, he is looking to add D-men and not drop them for forwards.
Now, I am not surprised that Stastny could be on the market considering COL need for a legitimate goalie. Plus, if that team could get both Johnson's and Bernier to build around, why wouldn't then?? Duchene and O'Reilly are a more than good enough 1-2 punch down the middle. If COL can fill needs by moving Stastny, it makes perfect sense.
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2011 : 15:48:56
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Slozo theres no way the leafs get Stastny for a very late 1st, 2nd and the monster.
It will take at least those 2 late 1st round picks and maybe a Jerry D`iamgo type player.....or Jesse Blacker with those picks if the Av`s are looking for a young D - man.
I`d do it, why not ? Who knows when the leafs will be able to aquire a top certer like this guy, and still very, very young. |
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2011 : 18:02:56
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Glad everyone jumped on me that got the Kaberle deal so right.
And guys . . . it was just a suggestion, off the top of my head. I only included a guy like Bozak to get a centre going back - if they are so f. ull of centres, fine, it could be a better player with more potential (Gunnarson, say).
And no, I wouldn't trade Reimer no matter what. He has been nothing short of amazing to me so far, and if he is a flash in the pan, then I'd rather it be with the Leafs. We have Gustavsson, Reimer, and a great prospect in Jussi Rynnas, I'd rather keep what I think might be the best two at the very least (Rynnas and Reimer at this point) to increase chances of developing our starting goalie of the future.
So ok - For Stastny, I offer Gunnarson, and our two first round picks.
Or put another way, Gunnarson, Gustavsson, and a first.
Knowing that the Avs are looking to dump yet more salary (even though they are way under the cap), it goes against the value going to the Avs.
Something that some people on this site still haven't figured out.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2011 : 18:18:34
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Slozo, I think the point I am trying to make is that IF(and it's a big if) the deal from LA included Johnson and Bernier and a top 6 forward, it makes sense that the deal from the Leafs must be comparable. Would you not compare Schenn to Johnson?? Would you not compare Bernier to Reimer?? That is my point.
What would COL benefit from gaining more draft picks?? They have tons of prospects and a potential lottery pick this year?? What does TO's 2 picks in spots higher than 20th overall do for COL?? Nothing.
I did read today that both Stastny and John Michael Liles are on TO's radar, but that the deal for Liles if far more likely. It will cost Burke more than he is willing to give up for Stastny, but I bet he could get Liles for a decent roster player. |
Edited by - Beans15 on 02/22/2011 18:22:24 |
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 07:08:06
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Well, that's the thing, Beans - I don't believe LA would offer Jack Johnson, Bernier and a top 6 forward for a top 6 forward coming back to them in Stastny. It would be ridiculous . . . and frankly, I would chide anyone on this site here contemplating its legitimacy.
LA might be interested in Stastny, talks may have been held, sure - but no such package would ever go the other way. It would be one of the worst deals in a long, long time.
So no, I don't think Toronto would have to come close to matching an imaginary deal offer like that.
They would benefit from draft picks in that they are trying to shed salary . . . otherwise, why are they shopping Stastny in the first place? Because he is so young and full of potential?!?
And yes, Liles has interest from Burke . . . and I am surprised he didn't become a Leaf a couple of days ago, actually, as Burke intimated that he would try his hardest to add a defenceman by Tues.
Defencemen are going REAL fast this year . . . Burke better hurry up!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 07:30:57
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Well, that's the thing, Beans - I don't believe LA would offer Jack Johnson, Bernier and a top 6 forward for a top 6 forward coming back to them in Stastny. It would be ridiculous . . . and frankly, I would chide anyone on this site here contemplating its legitimacy
No way do i think think that offer is on the table either. |
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 07:48:07
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I don't watch the Blue Jackets that often, so how do you guys feel about Steve Mason. He had a sensational rookie season a couple years back (won the Calder & nominated for the Vezina), and then struggled for much of last season. I just looked at his numbers for this season and they aren't that great, 2.97 GAA and .905 SP%. Is he a legitimate franchise goaltender?
The reason i bring it up is because i've read in a few different spots that he might be available, and as we all know the Jackets have long been searching for a #1 center to play with Rick Nash. Maybe there'd be a fit in Columbus for Stastny?? |
Edited by - ryan93 on 02/23/2011 07:49:28 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 08:24:16
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LA would get Stastny, AND Galiardi and a 1st round pick/prospect.
COL would get Johnson, Bernier, and Stoll.
It's not 3 players for Stastny, it's 3 players for 3 players. Considering the skills of Johnson and Stastny, it makes sense.
Secondly, COL is potentially looking at trade one of the 5 centres they have. They are not sheding salaries. Not at all. If they have 5 centres, three of them being Duchene, Stastny, and O'Reilly, and they are dwindling on defense then why not trade a centre(or a package including a centre) for a stud defensemen??
Frankly, I would chide anyone for being so obtuse to assume the GM in COL is dumb enough to take a centre like Tyler Bozak or a potential #3 defensemen in Gunnarson for one of the top 20 centres in the league.
Adrian Dater of the Denver Post: The Colorado Avalanche now have 5 centers (Duchene, Stastny, McClement, O’Reilly and Dupuis), with Matt Duchene getting close to returning, he’s expected to practice today. Dater expects one of them to be traded by the deadline, with Duchene likely being the only one that would be on the ‘untouchable’ list. Dater has heard a few rumors regarding Paul Stastny including, “Stastny, TJ Galiardi and maybe a pick/another player to Los Angeles for Jack Johnson, Jonathan Bernier and Jarret Stoll.” |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 08:59:47
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Well, obviously that changes things Beans - you never mentioned the other players coming from Colorado with Stastny.
With my deals, it was JUST Stastny coming to Toronto.
You do love to compare apples to oranges . . . lol. How many times you going to rage about my Bozak suggestion or the Gunnarson suggestion and state that was all I was offering back for Stastny, when I actually included other players/1st round picks as well?
I guess we'll see when you respond to this post by twisting more of my words around or make totally false claims on what I did or didn't suggest.
BTW, what is your opinion? What is YOUR trade suggestion? You willing to stop the sniping and step up to the plate and actually offer your wise advice on what you think Stastny would get - just like you schooled us all on what Kaberle would get as a return? 
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 09:35:51
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quote:
Well, obviously that changes things Beans - you never mentioned the other players coming from Colorado with Stastny.
With my deals, it was JUST Stastny coming to Toronto.
You do love to compare apples to oranges . . . lol. How many times you going to rage about my Bozak suggestion or the Gunnarson suggestion and state that was all I was offering back for Stastny, when I actually included other players/1st round picks as well?
Read the second comment in this thread, it clearly spells out the potential trade.
quote:
I guess we'll see when you respond to this post by twisting more of my words around or make totally false claims on what I did or didn't suggest.
BTW, what is your opinion? What is YOUR trade suggestion? You willing to stop the sniping and step up to the plate and actually offer your wise advice on what you think Stastny would get - just like you schooled us all on what Kaberle would get as a return?
I actually think that the original deal proposed would be fair for both sides, its a pretty even trade. The centerpieces are Stastny and Johnson, but Bernier/Stoll for Galardi/draft pick address other needs for COL and give more back to LA.
If it were just Stastny, it would depend on what COL valued more - a big defenseman or a solid goalie prospect. If it were TOR in the running for *just* Stastny, they would have to give up Schenn, no question about it - and even then it would probably not be enough. TOR doesn't have a goalie like Bernier in the system, but Reimer would be the only one close.
For the package that is on the table from COL, I don't think Toronto has a comparable package to return - Schenn+Reimer+one of the top-6 non-Kessel forwards would be where I start, but that is surely unpalatable to any TOR fan. |
Edited by - nuxfan on 02/23/2011 09:36:59 |
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 09:42:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
"Granted, Stastny would fit nicely into Burke's plans, but the story was actually broken in Colorado today with the deal that is rumors to be Jack Johnson, Jonathan Bernier, and Jarrett Stoll for Stastny, TJ Galiardi, and a pick/prospect. "
This is an excerpt from the second post in the thread. I realize Beans is a big boy and can easily verbally defend himself, but even I get tired of watching posters chip away with naught to back it up, but assumptions and at times, thinly, and not so thinly, veiled, animosity.
Good grief people, do your due diligence before you go after Beans, after all, he, like myself, is an Oiler fan, why would anyone even begin to imagine we wouldn't know of what we speak...err...type. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 10:01:58
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Fair enough, Fat Elvis (now Beans' lawyer): I made an error in not catching that in the thread.
Now we can go over who misspoke, didn't read something, slandered someone, etc etc befor every getting to any meaningful discussion on if any deal happens, what is fair value for Stastny, etc.
I blame all Oilers fans for hijacking this thread . . . well, not all, just two out of the three! 
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 10:05:50
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
actually think that the original deal proposed would be fair for both sides, its a pretty even trade. The centerpieces are Stastny and Johnson, but Bernier/Stoll for Galardi/draft pick address other needs for COL and give more back to LA.
If it were just Stastny, it would depend on what COL valued more - a big defenseman or a solid goalie prospect. If it were TOR in the running for *just* Stastny, they would have to give up Schenn, no question about it - and even then it would probably not be enough. TOR doesn't have a goalie like Bernier in the system, but Reimer would be the only one close.
For the package that is on the table from COL, I don't think Toronto has a comparable package to return - Schenn+Reimer+one of the top-6 non-Kessel forwards would be where I start, but that is surely unpalatable to any TOR fan.
So no comment on my proposal with the two first round draft picks? Why is everyone ignoring that part . . . you guys went on and on and on and on about first round draft picks in the Kessel deal, and although these are not nearly as high in the order, they are still decent value.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 10:31:34
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quote:
So no comment on my proposal with the two first round draft picks? Why is everyone ignoring that part . . . you guys went on and on and on and on about first round draft picks in the Kessel deal, and although these are not nearly as high in the order, they are still decent value.
I don't discount picks, I discounted the entire proposal. From what I can read below, your potential offer is: Gunnarson, 2 first round draft picks (picks likely to be 25+) for Stastny.
vs.
Bernier, Johnson, Stoll for Stastny, Galardi, possibly COL draft pick.
Also, COL has "gone on record" saying they would really like a young franchise goalie.
Which deal looks better for COL to you?
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Edited by - nuxfan on 02/23/2011 10:32:16 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 10:33:57
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Ok Slozo, we are cool. I often skim though a post and miss an important point or two. No worries.
Now, to your question as to what a deal would be for Stastny straight up?? Wow. It's tough. I don't see a straight up value for a players like Stastny. They are almost always multi-player deals.
Regardless, I will try. If will throw a few teams out just for the sake of objectivety. For Stastny straight UP:
The Leaf would have to give up Schenn and a roster forward
The Oilers woul have to give up Whitney and a roster forward
The Kings would have to give up Johnson and a marginal forward
The Predators would have to give up Weber(if under contract)
You get my point??? Stastny, a legitimate #1 centre and top 15-20 in the league would command a young #1 defensemen and in some cases more.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 12:45:01
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there may be more to this rumour than just moving a centre, found this on TSN today:
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=355005
It is father, not son, but you can't help but wonder if there is some bad blood between Paul and COL because of the Stewart trade.. |
Edited by - nuxfan on 02/23/2011 12:45:52 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 12:51:11
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
actually think that the original deal proposed would be fair for both sides, its a pretty even trade. The centerpieces are Stastny and Johnson, but Bernier/Stoll for Galardi/draft pick address other needs for COL and give more back to LA.
If it were just Stastny, it would depend on what COL valued more - a big defenseman or a solid goalie prospect. If it were TOR in the running for *just* Stastny, they would have to give up Schenn, no question about it - and even then it would probably not be enough. TOR doesn't have a goalie like Bernier in the system, but Reimer would be the only one close.
For the package that is on the table from COL, I don't think Toronto has a comparable package to return - Schenn+Reimer+one of the top-6 non-Kessel forwards would be where I start, but that is surely unpalatable to any TOR fan.
So no comment on my proposal with the two first round draft picks? Why is everyone ignoring that part . . . you guys went on and on and on and on about first round draft picks in the Kessel deal, and although these are not nearly as high in the order, they are still decent value.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Four things:
Stastny is a better player than Kessel. Nearly as good a goal scorer, overall more productive, and about the same age and size. I take Stastny is spades over Kessel.
Kessel was an RFA when signed to the 2-1st and a 2nd. Stastny is signed through the 13-14 season. More valuable with a locked in contract. More of a sure thing
Thirdly, what kind of hypocrite would I be if I dogged the Kessel trade for the draft picks then applauded another trade along the same lines??
COL (with their deal for Johnson as well as the speculation over this deal) is building with proven young players. Not draft picks. As I have now said 3 times, what does COL want with 2 late 1st round picks when they will more than likely get a lottery pick on their own??
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Edited by - Beans15 on 02/23/2011 14:45:30 |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 14:04:16
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I am surprised at the young NHL stars that are getting traded or their names are being bantered about.
With Stastny I think it is fair to say that any team that could package together the right deal and have cap space to handle his 6.6 mil for the next 3 yrs will take a shot.
Hard to believe Col would give up Stastny when they are really close, IMO, to being a competitive team again. I mean look at last year. But if they could land a good goalie prospect in a deal then I am sure they would pull the trigger.
How many teams have the goalie prospect and ability to take on Stastny's cap hit. I haven't looked but there likely isn't to many unless they get creative. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 14:50:22
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Chop, I agree with you completely. However, it's a needs thing. Deuchene is proving himself the better player. O'Rielly is a more than adaqute #2 centre. Stastny becomes an asset that can be used to improve the squad.
Consider COL with a defensive group that included Johnson, Johnson, Quincey, Cumisky, and Wilson with a goalie like Bernier?? That is top teir in the NHL!! Add in a group of forwards including Duchene, Mueller(if healthy), McLeod, Winnik. O'Reilly, Yip, and Jones. Plus, COL has one of the lowest caps in the game today. They still have opportunities on the FA market.
Think of it as not dropping Stastny as much as using a very high quality asset to satisfy needs in other areas of the team. |
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Topic |
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Paul Stastny to be Traded? 
