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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
 Posted - 02/23/2011 : 15:16:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Chop, I agree with you completely. However, it's a needs thing. Deuchene is proving himself the better player. O'Rielly is a more than adaqute #2 centre. Stastny becomes an asset that can be used to improve the squad.
Consider COL with a defensive group that included Johnson, Johnson, Quincey, Cumisky, and Wilson with a goalie like Bernier?? That is top teir in the NHL!! Add in a group of forwards including Duchene, Mueller(if healthy), McLeod, Winnik. O'Reilly, Yip, and Jones. Plus, COL has one of the lowest caps in the game today. They still have opportunities on the FA market.
Think of it as not dropping Stastny as much as using a very high quality asset to satisfy needs in other areas of the team.
OK Beans, you and I are on the same page for once. But I don't think that LA will give up Bernier. I know its in the one rumour and in the end I would not be surprised but for LA to give up their young star goalie when they too are so close does not make sense. I don't seem Lombardi doing it considering how long LA has taken to get loaded with young talent and become a legitmate playoff team.
I also don't see the Nucks giving up Schneider when they are the best team in the NHL and really do not have another tender in the system as good at this point.
I think that Columbus may be the team and Steve Mason could be the young goalie the Aves could use. He has struggled since his Calder but a change could help. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 16:34:31
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The Canucks have publically stated that they will not deal Schneider, this year at least. He's been solid, and will probably be needed through the stretch and possibly the playoffs. Nor do we have any need for Stastny.
Again - I'm surprised at the love-in with Bernier. I get it, he's a good prospect, but Beans - "top tier in the NHL"? Or were you referring to the defense only.... So far, Bernier has shown that he is capable of playing slightly above average goal in a backup role, and has not yet played 30 games at the NHL level.
I cannot believe that COL is focusing on Bernier as the goalie to build around at this point in his career. Now, if the goalie coming back from LA were Quick, that might be different... but I don't see that happening either. |
Edited by - nuxfan on 02/23/2011 16:35:04 |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 16:37:41
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IMO, the Canucks won't move Schneider till the summer. I believe they will do so then. He deserves a chance in a city where he'll get a legitimate shot at the starters role. The only way i see him still here is if Luongo totally shats the bed in the playoffs and they somehow deal him, but i feel both are unlikely. It's highly unlikely with how well this team has played this season that they wouldn't want a reliable backup for Luongo, just in case he's needed. Secondly, the Canucks have more than enough depth at center, therefore, no real need for Stastny.
I'd say the only way that the Canucks get involved would be in a three team deal with Colorado and another team, but even this goes against my thoughts as to keeping Schneider. Possibly if in the deal, the Canucks got a capable backup (veteran or other) something could be done? For ex:
To Colorado: Schneider, M. Raymond
To Vancouver: S. Mason, S. Pahlsson, pick/prospect from CBJ
To CBJ: P. Stastny
TOTALLY hypothetical and i still don't see the Canucks being involved or parting with Schneider as they may get more for him in the offseason, though i do hear they're in the market for a 4th line center (Pahlsson), Mason could possibly step in if Luongo went down and i suppose it'd depend on the pick/prospect?
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 16:46:02
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
The Canucks have publically stated that they will not deal Schneider, this year at least. He's been solid, and will probably be needed through the stretch and possibly the playoffs. Nor do we have any need for Stastny.
Again - I'm surprised at the love-in with Bernier. I get it, he's a good prospect, but Beans - "top tier in the NHL"? Or were you referring to the defense only.... So far, Bernier has shown that he is capable of playing slightly above average goal in a backup role, and has not yet played 30 games at the NHL level.
I cannot believe that COL is focusing on Bernier as the goalie to build around at this point in his career. Now, if the goalie coming back from LA were Quick, that might be different... but I don't see that happening either.
Yep, I was meaning defensively. However, I have a ton of man-love for Bernier. I think he is a real potential #1 keeper. I do agree that Quick is the guy I would build around as well. But much like COL having too many centres, LA has 2 legitimate keepers. Why not move one to service other need.
Bottom line, there is a VERY limited number of young prospect goalies that have a chance at turning into anything. That is why I can respect the Leaf nation thinking as highly as Reimer as they do or the Canuckleheads having all the props for Schneider. And, all the Oilers with their love for........ Hey, wait a minute.  |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 16:56:55
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Well put Beans. The problem with potential #1 goalies when young is that they're far too difficult to predict! Sure, Shneider's been good in his limited role, same goes for Reimer, Bernier, etc. But for every Roy, there's a few Mason's, Jim Carey's, etc.
However, it's not unthinkable for a team like Col to take a chance at one of these guys in hopes he becomes a stud, esp if they don't have a truly can't miss prospect in their system. Otherwise, they're looking at having to draft one and depending on what's available in the draft, that could be difficult? |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 20:05:36
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quote:
I think he is a real potential #1 keeper. I do agree that Quick is the guy I would build around as well
Which is the real problem I have with this trade - do you move a blue-chip young #1 centre in a package that returns only a "potential goalie"? I have to think that COL could get more value in the goalie (while substituting less value in the defenseman) if they tried.
Steve Mason is a credible option - certainly more games than Bernier, a Calder trophy followed by a bad year followed by a bounceback year. Or perhaps they could pry Rinne (seeing as Lindberg is a "keeper nearly everywhere" ) out of NSH. Rask as well. Or try to sign Vokoun in the offseason. Or chase Nabokov. |
Edited by - nuxfan on 02/23/2011 20:05:58 |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 20:10:09
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quote:
TOTALLY hypothetical and i still don't see the Canucks being involved or parting with Schneider as they may get more for him in the offseason
Yeah, won't happen. The Canucks don't need much at this trade deadline - if anything at all - and what they do need is not worth Schneider.
If the Canucks win the cup this year (knocking on wood), I think Schneider would be moved in the summer. If they do not, depending on when they go out and how they go out, its not inconceivable that the Canucks might wonder if Luongo is the right choice for them going forward - it would be the 3rd year straight where the Canucks failed to live up to expectations in the playoffs. Schneider is showing that he is capable of being a very good goalie, and he's 7 years younger than Luongo.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 01:21:12
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
TOTALLY hypothetical and i still don't see the Canucks being involved or parting with Schneider as they may get more for him in the offseason
Yeah, won't happen. The Canucks don't need much at this trade deadline - if anything at all - and what they do need is not worth Schneider.
If the Canucks win the cup this year (knocking on wood), I think Schneider would be moved in the summer. If they do not, depending on when they go out and how they go out, its not inconceivable that the Canucks might wonder if Luongo is the right choice for them going forward - it would be the 3rd year straight where the Canucks failed to live up to expectations in the playoffs. Schneider is showing that he is capable of being a very good goalie, and he's 7 years younger than Luongo.
Not exactly sure what you're implying but i still say that the only way Luongo is run outta Van is if he totally blows up in the playoffs. I'm not talking about 1 bad game in a 7 game series loss either, i'm talking about a total implosion! Keep in mind, if this happens, they still have to find a taker if they did want to offload him and go with Schneider (who, although looking good so far, is far from "proven"). |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 05:09:21
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Did anyone read about Pete Stastny's (Paul's dad) rant the other day on how Colorado is blowing up their team? Link here:
http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2011/02/22/peter-stastny-bombshell-avs-blues-trade-destroyed-the-team/6586/
Funny, but all the writing on Yahoo sports and even the paper here sorta chide Paul's dad for making a public statement like this, but . . . I think he speaks for all fans of the team here. And, frankly, I totally agree with him.
I agree with all about how tough it is to get a true starting goalie these days that will turn into a consistent A goalie . . . and that is why I think most GMs, knowing the gambles that exist, simply try to stockpile as many good prospects as possible. It's what Burke did and has tried to do with goaltending and defence - you get a few great prospects, and one is bound to work.
Which is why I don't think Bernier's 6-8-2 record, coupled with his .904 save % and 2.72 GAA is anything worth getting real excited about, especially considering his overall record is 10 wins, 11 losses over 3 seasons now with the LA Kings. Sure, he is a potential starting goalie of the future . . . just like Dubnyk for Edmonton (8-7-6 this year on the worst team in the league, .914 sav%, 2.78 GAA).
So, I really don't get the man-love for Bernier, Beans. I'd rate your own team's young goalie higher, based on this year's performance.
And which all leads to my point, getting back on topic, that I don't think the Avs would get that excited over Bernier. He would get better value than a Gustavsson, perhaps, sure; but it's just another gamble on a young goalie, which if I were rating it against a pick, would be the equivalent of a mid first rounder.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 07:22:04
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Bernier is a piece of the deal, but I think that COL would/should be more excited about getting their hands on Jack Johnson. That is the piece to the deal I think is even more valuable than Bernier and the piece people are overlooking. That is why the other deals people have discussed do not compare. Sure, if COL was just looking for a goalie, there are far better options to Bernier and are more than likely available. However, it's the package for a blue chip defensemen, a potential #1 keeper, and a current top 6 forward in return for the blue chip centre, and prospect potential top 6 forward, and the 1st round draft pick.
Sure, Rinne would be awesome for COL, but would NAS give a blue chip defender in the deal??
The closest deal I can think of would include Schenn, Reimer (in the same boat as Bernier and in many cases more appealing), and a player like Kulemin.
The key to this deal is the combination of the blue chip defensemen AND the prospect goalie, not just the keeper. At least in my opinion. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 09:30:06
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quote:
Sure, Rinne would be awesome for COL, but would NAS give a blue chip defender in the deal??
Well no, they wouldn't, but that was my point - if the goalie is the real focus for COL (which they seem to have stated), then they may be willing to get a better goalie at the expense of a blue chip defenseman.
I agree, Johnson is the centerpiece of the proposed package coming back from LA, and Bernier is a hopeful bit. But if COL does really want a goalie, they would be better off trying to get a (for example) package out of NSH for Rinne and a regular blueliner - take a hit on the blueliner in exchange for a more proven goaltender.
quote:
Did anyone read about Pete Stastny's (Paul's dad) rant the other day on how Colorado is blowing up their team?
I posted it earlier in the thread - I wonder if Peter's comments were somehow tied back to Paul within the organization. If they were, that would explain why Paul Stastny is suddenly on the block... |
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chef
Top Prospect
Canada
25 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 14:38:41
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Kostitsyn and Leblanc , or Gomez and a 2 round pick for Statsny!
Habs for the Cup |
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2011 : 18:10:53
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| According to the Hotstove tonight on CBC, Paul Stastny is not available...nor are Adam Foote or Milan Hejduk. They were still speculation however that JM Liles could be available & that the Leafs are interested. |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2011 : 17:24:36
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Really Chef ?? Gomez. I`m afraid Montreal has Gomez`s un-moveable contract until it ends.
Not much for Statsny in your offer.
In Montreals case, for a serious pitch for Statsny.....how about P.K Subban, a 1st rd pick and maybe a top prospect....that might and only might do it.
Statsny will take the farm from any team.
As a leaf fan, i`d trade L.Schenn, one of those 1st rd picks and a prospect for P. Statsny.....thats what it will take, players like Statsny just don`t come along that often. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2011 : 19:20:59
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quote:
According to the Hotstove tonight on CBC, Paul Stastny is not available...nor are Adam Foote or Milan Hejduk.
well, its a relief that the COL organization has not gone completely mad. |
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Paul Stastny to be Traded? 
