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Guest7116
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 Posted - 01/24/2012 : 17:27:41
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Just wondering if you guys think his time is up in Edmonton. If so who do you think may take a chance on this guy and what you think he is worth in return. I think this guy has all the skill in the world and very fast but is very injury prone and his contract is up at the end of the year.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2012 : 17:43:05
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| someone will take him, his skill is unquestioned - although his longevity is questionable, as well as being in a contract year... He's consistently mentioned as one of the big trade deadline deals waiting to happen. |
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2012 : 23:39:49
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| What can tambo get for him though? |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2012 : 00:05:39
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Agreed, def available, but what will someone pay? Unless they can guarantee to lock him up for another contract, he's simply a rental. Still could fetch a decent return.
If i had to guess, Detroit takes a chance on him. They've been rumoured to be interested for some time, plus they have 7 mil in cap space whereby they could sign him and keep him beyond a playoff run. I can only imagine the depth they have to offer up in return as well. |
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Guest5744
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Posted - 01/25/2012 : 07:46:11
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| hemsky is garbage. simply put. i wouldn't want my team to give up anything more than a 4th rounder for him. i have never seen him play consistently or even three quarters of a season. he is often injured and when he does play its not as good as he is touted to be. over-rated and over paid. |
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2012 : 08:01:33
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He may be having a subpar season, but he's far from "garbage". Not counting this season, Hemsky has 331 points in 360 games since the lockout! He is injury prone, I'll give you that. Although again you're exaggerating as he played between 71-81 games in 4 of the 5 seasons prior to 2009.
Playing for the Oilers, Hemsky hasn't seen much playoff time. But the last time he was there, he had 17 points during the Oilers run to the final. |
Edited by - ryan93 on 01/25/2012 08:02:49 |
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Guest2978
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Posted - 01/25/2012 : 12:39:31
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It's a tough situation... What do you pay a guy that has been injured alot over the past few years and what are you going to get for him if you do?? When he wants to play he can still be a VERY effective player. The problem is from watching him play, on ALOT of nights, he seems very disinterested.
If I was a general manager I'd be questioning his heart and his compete level (not too mention his often injured body). The last 2 weeks he has been playing ALOT better. Now is that because he is finally healthy and getting his confidence back or is it because the trade deadline is fast approaching so he is showcasing himself??
Personally, for MOST of the season, it kind of looks like a guy thats playing his was out of a situatuion. Which kink of speaks of the hole "heart" issue, no?
Oh, and it also kind of speaks to the hole "poor baby millionaire athlete issue too" IF (and I say IF) he is playing his way out of Edmonton. Doesn't it??
He's ridiculously skilled and equally disappointing and frustrating... Roll the dice GM's!! :) |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2012 : 14:47:38
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This latest guest hit the nail on the head perfectly. Hemsky is an all-world talent when healthy and motivated. He has produced (when healthy) at a clip of a PPG and has played without a real goal scorer in Edmonton for most of that time. He is exciting to watch, is a great passer, and has some of the best chops in the league when it comes to dangling through players.
The problems historically have been with injuries. If he's not healthy the talent is irrelevant. He has had surgeries on both shoulders already and has been unable to play full seasons for a while now. Most recently, his compete level have become an issue as well.
Although the thought of Hemsky being garbage and only fetching a 4th round pick is completely absurd, Hemsky's value is not very high right now. However, if he is motivated and stays healthy he is absolutely worth the risk to a team pushing for a Cup run. I continuously hear about Detroit and Philadelphia having interest.
A 2nd round pick and a conditional 1st round pick if the team he goes to makes the conference finals is what the Oilers should expect for Hemsky. Some may think that price is too high, but consider recent deadline deals such as Penner and Kaberle, it's what the market shoud pay. Hemsky is a better talent than both of those guys. Regardless of any opinion, Hemsky is, at the worst, a top 6 forward on any team in the NHL. On about 1/2 the teams in the NHL he is 1st line talent. Healthy and motivated is the key. |
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Guest7116
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Posted - 01/25/2012 : 15:35:11
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| where do you guys think he might be a good fit? People are saying detroit but their top two lines are play unbelievable so its a lot to pay for a third liner. What about Vancouver to play with the Sedins? Not too sure about their cap space or what not but that line would be pretty sick along with adding burrows to play with Raymond and Kesler. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2012 : 16:14:34
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Det, as has been mentioned, has been rumoured to be interested for quite some time. With how good they're doing, AND approx 7 mil in cap space, it seems inevitable that they will make a splash before the deadline. Whether or not Hemsky is involved is anyone's guess at this point, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least.
I don't see Vancouver going after him. If they really wanted him, being a divisional rival never helps, but i'm not sure they'd wanna chance an injury prone guy for the playoffs. Then again, any team getting him takes that risk i guess???
Teams like Philly would be interesting to see (if they'd have interest). The reason i say that is, lets say a guy like Van Riemsdyk was part of a bigger deal to Edm, would he be willing to go there (i think he has a NTC but i could be wrong). While Edm is not a strong team, they sure as hell will be in a few years you'd think? Would a guy like JVR be interested in going there and being a part of a young core with the likes of Eberle, Hall, RNH, etc?
Also, wasn't LA rumoured to be interested as well at some point last year? Since they are struggling to score, they could possibly be in the running for a guy who is considered an offensive player. |
Edited by - Alex116 on 01/25/2012 16:15:32 |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2012 : 20:22:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest7116
where do you guys think he might be a good fit? People are saying detroit but their top two lines are play unbelievable so its a lot to pay for a third liner. What about Vancouver to play with the Sedins? Not too sure about their cap space or what not but that line would be pretty sick along with adding burrows to play with Raymond and Kesler.
As Alex says, I don't see it happening with VAN - inter-divisional trades rarely happen, and the Canucks and Oilers don't like each other much, they probably could not settle on a deal. There was some talk about it last during last nights game, and some speculation that EDM would be a perfect home for Schneider, but it won't happen.
I don't see VAN really wanting Hemsky - he is a great skill, but lets face it, the Canucks don't need much more raw skill. They need tough physical forwards that can both play hard and score, and Hemsky is only half of that equation.
Besides that, VAN presents the same 3rd line option for Hemsky - their top-2 lines are very good right now, and there is no room for Hemsky on either of them. |
Edited by - nuxfan on 01/25/2012 20:25:59 |
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2012 : 22:02:04
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
[quote]Originally posted by Guest7116
where do you guys think he might be a good fit? People are saying detroit but their top two lines are play unbelievable so its a lot to pay for a third liner. What about Vancouver to play with the Sedins? Not too sure about their cap space or what not but that line would be pretty sick along with adding burrows to play with Raymond and Kesler.
As Alex says, I don't see it happening with VAN - inter-divisional trades rarely happen, and the Canucks and Oilers don't like each other much, they probably could not settle on a deal. There was some talk about it last during last nights game, and some speculation that EDM would be a perfect home for Schneider, but it won't happen.
I don't see VAN really wanting Hemsky - he is a great skill, but lets face it, the Canucks don't need much more raw skill. They need tough physical forwards that can both play hard and score, and Hemsky is only half of that equation.
Besides that, VAN presents the same 3rd line option for Hemsky - their top-2 lines are very good right now, and there is no room for Hemsky on either of them.
[/quote/]
Hemsky is not a third liner.Not on a single team.He would be the 4th,5th,or 6th best forward in Vancouver,and then;the 4th,or 5th, best one in Detroit,and thats just looking at only how hes playing this season.You make room for a player as good as ales hemsky.But ya;hes not going to,vancouver. Probably Pittsburgh,or Detroit |
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Guest4665
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Posted - 01/25/2012 : 22:44:13
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| Hemsky for Subban straight Up.... |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2012 : 23:16:01
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quote:
Originally posted by sahis34
Hemsky is not a third liner.Not on a single team
I know - that was my point. VAN has a very solid top-6 that works very well together right now. They are unlikely to displace one of those top-6 forwards with the addition of Hemsky (unless they also traded away one of the current top-6, which I see as unlikely right now), therefore VAN is not the right place for him. |
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Guest5744
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Posted - 01/26/2012 : 09:49:06
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
I don't see VAN really wanting Hemsky - he is a great skill, but lets face it, the Canucks don't need much more raw skill. They need tough physical forwards that can both play hard and score, and Hemsky is only half of that equation.
yep. they need grit not a wimp like hemsky. hemsky would fit in great with detroit but they wont give up much for him. you guys arekidding right? hemsky at best is a 2nd round pick. and BEANS!! i said i wouldn't want my team to give up anymore than a 4th rounder IMO he isn't worth anymore than that i didn't say thats the going price for an injury prone unmotivated overpaid player....
they've been trying to get rid of hemsky for years now, literally every year he is rumoured to be leaving edmonton. either the offers haven't been good enough or there haven't been any at all... his stock is declining rapidly and no one will be giving up 2 picks in the first 2 rounds for this guy haha what a joke. |
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2012 : 10:15:18
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
Originally posted by sahis34
Hemsky is not a third liner.Not on a single team
I know - that was my point. VAN has a very solid top-6 that works very well together right now. They are unlikely to displace one of those top-6 forwards with the addition of Hemsky (unless they also traded away one of the current top-6, which I see as unlikely right now), therefore VAN is not the right place for him.
^Thats,fair.
Plus the oilers and canucks arent natural trading partners.And if the oilers got a conditional pick,based on Vancouver's success;then as an oiler fan,Id have to cheer for the canucks.And thats just wrong my friend. |
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Guest7116
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Posted - 01/26/2012 : 12:21:56
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| someone metioned pit... they do need people up front but with all the injuries they have had all year I cant see them taking the risk on this guy. Also I think edmonton would need to have the deal involving a d man coming there way. |
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Guest4178
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Posted - 01/26/2012 : 13:11:16
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I'm from Edmonton, and I've watched Hemsky play a lot of games in an Oilers uniform. While he's a PPG player when healthy (hard to get points when you're not), and very exciting to watch, he has not proven to be the player many thought he would become.
I remember Gretzky commenting that Hemsky was either the most talented player in the game (or one of them) about 4-5 seasons ago. And he wasn't the only person making this comment.
Hemsky does have amazing skill and talent, but I actually don't think he sees the game at a high level. I think his "sight" is about average in the NHL, so he oftentimes makes bad passes or holds the puck too long, and thus gives up the puck a lot.
I did some checking on giveaways, and here's what I found. Hemsky was the second worst in the NHL for giveaways during the 2005-2006 season (just behind Kovalchuk) - this being the first year I could find stats for giveaways (and takeaways). He's improved somewhat since then, but from 05-06 to 08-09, he posted the most giveaways for Oilers forwards 4 seasons in a row, and without playing a full season for 3 of this seasons.
Hemsky doesn't balance this deficiency out with a great record for giveaways, or enough scoring punch (like Kovalchuk) to forgive this slight to his game.
But it's more that stats for me. When watching the Oilers this season, I can already see that Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (as an 18-year-old) has better game vision and smarts than Hemsky. I still think Hemsky has great talent, but his "game sight" is just not there. (It's what causes him to get hurt too.)
And because of this, I don't think the Oilers will get much in trade value for Hemsky. After all, he is a UFA at the end of the season, so how much do teams want to give up for what could be an injury-prone rent-a-player?
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Guest8850
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Posted - 01/26/2012 : 13:31:49
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Hemsky is super fast and is almost a PPG player. He has the potential to be top 50 but is not there as of yet or maybe ever. His problem is not motivation as he is playing in Edmonton he doesn't have much to work with and since Edmonton is trying to rebuild that means phasing out the old (Hemsky's not old but has been in Edmonton for a long while). This also means Hemsky has been getting less ice time. So those who say he's been playing better lately (To get traded or another contract). I say "No" he's been playing better because he has been getting some ice time with Edmonton's injuries. If he get's traded it wont be for something Edmonton feel's he's worth. Maybe a 2nd or 3rd liner and a d-man. Maybe something like the montreal/calgary trade (Bourqe for Cammi). Edmonton could use some muscle like montreal. Defenitly wont be going to Van, they dont need him and Edmonton dont need Schneider. Khabi was best goalie in the league at the start of the season when Edmonton had a healthy team and an energetic team. Plus why work on a young Schneider when they are already working on a young Dubnyk and they already have several goalies in the pipes (like Tyler Bunz).
Whoever wants to roll the dice with hemsky should just make sure they throw in his contract "No Soccer in the Summer" I can't imagine that is helping too much as playing 82 games is hard enough with having no time to relax/heal/train in the summer.
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2012 : 22:00:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4178
I'm from Edmonton, and I've watched Hemsky play a lot of games in an Oilers uniform. While he's a PPG player when healthy (hard to get points when you're not), and very exciting to watch, he has not proven to be the player many thought he would become.
I remember Gretzky commenting that Hemsky was either the most talented player in the game (or one of them) about 4-5 seasons ago. And he wasn't the only person making this comment.
Hemsky does have amazing skill and talent, but I actually don't think he sees the game at a high level. I think his "sight" is about average in the NHL, so he oftentimes makes bad passes or holds the puck too long, and thus gives up the puck a lot.
I did some checking on giveaways, and here's what I found. Hemsky was the second worst in the NHL for giveaways during the 2005-2006 season (just behind Kovalchuk) - this being the first year I could find stats for giveaways (and takeaways). He's improved somewhat since then, but from 05-06 to 08-09, he posted the most giveaways for Oilers forwards 4 seasons in a row, and without playing a full season for 3 of this seasons.
Hemsky doesn't balance this deficiency out with a great record for giveaways, or enough scoring punch (like Kovalchuk) to forgive this slight to his game.
But it's more that stats for me. When watching the Oilers this season, I can already see that Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (as an 18-year-old) has better game vision and smarts than Hemsky. I still think Hemsky has great talent, but his "game sight" is just not there. (It's what causes him to get hurt too.)
And because of this, I don't think the Oilers will get much in trade value for Hemsky. After all, he is a UFA at the end of the season, so how much do teams want to give up for what could be an injury-prone rent-a-player?
If you have the puck more then you'll have more giveaways. |
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Guest4178
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Posted - 01/27/2012 : 09:28:49
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Yeah, I thought about that – having the puck more will cause you to have more giveaways, but even though I brought up the giveaway stats, I'm not hanging my hat on this being Hemsky's biggest deficiency. It was presented more for thought.
I was going to check out other leading puck-carriers' stats on giveaways, but I didn't want to "moneyball" this thinks with stats. (And it's kinda time-consuming.) If someone took the time to research this more, I would be interested if this is a real blemish for Hemsky or not.
But what I will hang my hat on with Hemsky is his on-ice vision. I've watched him play in literally hundreds of games, and I've never really been able to put my finger on it until the past couple of years.
He does some amazing things on the ice, but he makes a lot of plays which cause you to scratch your head.
I don't know if I'm failing to describe it properly, because one would think talent and skill equates to great smarts (seeing the game), but I really think there's a difference. Hemsky has incredible instinctual hockey talent, but in my opinion, he doesn't see the game at a high level in the NHL.
Gretzky is an obvious example of a player who saw the ice better than any other player, and his skill-sets were average at best. He did not have the hardest shot, and he wasn't the fastest skater, but he was arguably the greatest player in the game. I know this is an extreme example, but maybe this helps illustrate my point? |
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Guest8850
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Posted - 01/30/2012 : 16:04:11
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| Hemsky might fit well in Nashville, they got a tuff team up front with no SUperstar. (Several Stars, No Superstar) Hemsky could play with skill and not get beat up as if he were playing with Edmonton rookies. Also Edmonton could really use Suter although I know hemsky is not enough alone for Suter but maybe With Ganger... |
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Guest4306
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Posted - 01/30/2012 : 20:24:06
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If I'm Edmonton, I would make that deal (Hemsky and Gagner for Suter), but not without locking up Suter for a long-term deal. Like Hemsky, Suter is a UFA after this season, and Edmonton is not going to trade for any player with an expiring contract.
Hemsky is a diminishing asset for Edmonton, so unless they agree to a contract extension before the trade deadline (unlikely), they're going to need to find a team who wants Hemsky for the playoff push. Nashville is definitely looking good to make the playoffs, but unless they know they can afford to sign Suter after this season (especially with Shea Weber's $7.5 annual salary), they need to get maximum value in return for Suter. But they too would want to make sure Hemsky was agreeable to a contract extension.
Right now, the cards are in the hands of the players. Their agents are reminding them the value of being a UFA, and the value of 30 teams vying for your services. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2012 : 21:40:20
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Hesmky and Gagner for Suter is very close to solid but if I am the Oilers I am looking for one more player in the deal. Hemsky and Gagner are 2 legitimate top 6 players. That is more valuable than one defensemen regardless of who it is based on simply math. No team can afford to drop 1/3 of their offensive potential for one player.
Also, Suter has said he will not sign prior to the trade deadline, but that does not mean he won't sign before July 1st. That is the key, obviously, with any deal involving him. Hemsky to Nashville would also likely require some kind of signing assurances. However, Hemsky to a team like Detroit or Philly is more of a rental option.
I would be completely stoked to see Suter in an Oilers uniform but I think it's a bit of a pipe dream for Oiler fans. It is one of those situations where the team needs a player like Suter so badly that deals that might be unrealistic become realistic just because the player is so highly coveted. Kinda like Perry going to Vancouver......... |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2012 : 08:18:52
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Beans....Gagner has averaged just a half point per game over his 4.5 years thus far. That's obviously not stellar for a guy who was drafted 6th overall. Granted, he came into the league at a very young age, meaning he's still very young and could yet blossom into more of a scorer, but in the meantime, his value is not exactly high. Anyone aquiring him, is getting him on potential, which at this point is a true unknown.
Hemsky, is a 65-70 point player. If not for his injury history, he'd prob have more value than he does but he's also a UFA as well at the end of the year which puts him in the same spot as Suter. So, to make this trade happen, Suter and Hemsky would likely have to agree to terms (somehow) with their new teams.
Any way you look at it, if i were an Oiler fan, i think i'd be more than happy with Suter for these two guys. No need for anything else imo. |
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2012 : 13:01:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Beans....Gagner has averaged just a half point per game over his 4.5 years thus far. That's obviously not stellar for a guy who was drafted 6th overall. Granted, he came into the league at a very young age, meaning he's still very young and could yet blossom into more of a scorer, but in the meantime, his value is not exactly high. Anyone aquiring him, is getting him on potential, which at this point is a true unknown.
Hemsky, is a 65-70 point player. If not for his injury history, he'd prob have more value than he does but he's also a UFA as well at the end of the year which puts him in the same spot as Suter. So, to make this trade happen, Suter and Hemsky would likely have to agree to terms (somehow) with their new teams.
Any way you look at it, if i were an Oiler fan, i think i'd be more than happy with Suter for these two guys. No need for anything else imo.
Gagner was drafted 6th overall in one of the weakest draft classes in the past decade. Just look who went ahead of him... Turris, hickey,alzner. Gagner's not exactly a diamond in a ruff, but you shouldn't judge him by where he was drafted based on being picked high up in this s*** fest of players. As for hemsky I don't think he's a fit in nashville. Nashville plays a team game. Hemsky doesn't. I think he would be best suited for pittsburgh. |
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Guest5744
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Posted - 01/31/2012 : 13:23:37
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| pittsburgh won't give anything up for hemsky that the oilers would want |
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Guest8875
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Posted - 01/31/2012 : 20:10:15
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| Stop talking Pitsburgh, it will not happen. Pitsburgh has too many injury prone players already and Edmoton doesn't need anyone but Fluery or Letang and they ain't going nowhere. |
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Guest4306
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Posted - 02/01/2012 : 20:16:59
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Hemsky is often referred to as a PPG player, but the reality is he's actually around .80 PPG in his NHL career. Sure, there are seasons when he was near a point per game, but this season he's closer to half a point per game. (20 points in 37 games at the current time.) Sure - he's missed a few games due to injuries (as he does most seasons), but it's not like he's playing at less than 100% when he is in the line-up. The Oilers are not exactly rushing any players back into the line-up this season (or the past few seasons), because it's all about the rebuild.
I think Hemsky is a bit overrated, and at 28 years of age, he has not blossomed into the player he was expected to become.
He would not make my list as one of the top 50 players in the league, and in fact, I don't think he makes my list as one of the top 50 forwards in the game. On most teams, I would rank 2-3 forwards ahead of Hemsky, and with 30 teams in the league, the math suggests Hemsky is not an elite forward.
He's not improving his value as a UFA, so it will be interesting to see what the Oilers get for Hemsky by the trade deadline. I would be surprised to see Hemsky finish the season with the Oilers, unless they re-sign him by the trade deadline, but that is very unlikely to take place in my opinion. |
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2012 : 20:55:01
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As I said above, prior to this season Hemsky had 331 points in 360 games since the lockout, which is .92 PPG. That's pretty close to a PPG if you ask me...
I think there will definitely be a taker for Hemsky at the deadline. That said, if I'm an Oilers fan I wouldn't count on him yielding a big return. His injury history, UFA status, & the fact he's having a subpar season doesn't bode well for the Oilers. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2012 : 07:34:26
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Hemsky under-rated?? No, absolutely not. Hemsky unde-performing, yes, absolutely. I think it's pretty funny, actually, that every team in the league would have 2-3 forward rated ahead of Hemsky. Let's play this game for a second.
Here is a list of teams where I believe Hemsky would automatically become the 1st line winger:
Boston, Buffalo, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Pittsburgh, New Jersey, NYI, NYR, Florida, Winnipeg, Carolina, Columbus, Nashville, Los Angeles, Dallas, Phoenix, Calgary, Colorado, Minnesota.
Not considering Edmonton, that is 21 teams that Hemsky would likely become the 1st line winger on day one. He would be the 2nd line winger on the other 8 teams. There is not a team in the NHL that Hemsky would be a 3rd line player on.
How is that not an elite level talent???
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BucketHead
Top Prospect
Canada
78 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2012 : 08:31:31
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| Because in your words bean he does not produce a point per game so he is not elite, |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2012 : 08:41:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Here is a list of teams where I believe Hemsky would automatically become the 1st line winger:
Boston, Buffalo, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Pittsburgh, New Jersey, NYI, NYR, Florida, Winnipeg, Carolina, Columbus, Nashville, Los Angeles, Dallas, Phoenix, Calgary, Colorado, Minnesota.
I don't for a second think that Hemsky is a scrub or anything, but these teams you list him as the immediate number one winger? He is a Right Wing, correct? Now, this is off the top of my head but i'm pretty sure guys like D. Heatley, J. Iginla, J. Pomminville, P. Kessel, M. Gaborik and L. Eriksson, amongst others, may have something to say about that? Now, i'm not sure, but maybe Hemsky plays left wing and could slide into the number one line on some of these teams, but elite? Again, it all comes down to how one define's "elite" i guess? |
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Guest5744
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Posted - 02/02/2012 : 09:07:55
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| hemsky is not a first liner. period. if he doesn't play first line on edmonton (one of the worst teams in the league) he wouldn't be playing first line on another team. he is a second line player. i know edmonton has a great young first line but hemsky can't be relied on to be a first line player |
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Guest4178
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Posted - 02/02/2012 : 13:10:39
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If we're just talking about ranking as it relates to a player's current value (not their age or cap hit), I could easily see most teams having one or two players ahead of Hemsky as their top forward. (Emphasis on top forward NOT first-liner.)
Using the first six teams Beans used in his sampling, here are the forwards I would list ahead of Hemsky:
Boston: Bergeron, Seguin, Krejci and Lucic
Buffalo: Pomminville, Vanek, Roy
Ottawa: Spezza, Alfredsson
Toronto: Kessel, Lupul
Montreal: Cole and Pacioretty would probably be a wash, but I would take Gomez and Gionta over Hemsky
Pittsburgh: Malkin, Neal (I left Crosby out due to his injury status.)
So – using the first six teams in the sampling, I would rank at least two forwards ahead of Hemsky (it doesn't mean that he makes the first line), so on this basis, there are probably at least 50 forwards who I would rather have on my team than Hemsky.
He's not my definition of an elite player, but he's not a bum either. He came close to becoming an elite player a few seasons ago, but he has not fulfilled the promise so many saw him 5-6 years ago.
I do agree with Beans that Hemsky is under-performing, but my assessment on Hemsky (and other compared players) if based on their current value. And right now, I could easily find 50 forwards I would take ahead of Hemsky. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2012 : 13:54:36
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Sure, I would take 50 forwards ahead of Hemsky as well, but that does not mean he would not be a first line players on most teams today. It's not about who is a better player or not. It's about how those pieces of the puzzle fit.
Let me explain using your same examples and look at their top two lines (as listed on fantasyhockey911) and where I believe Hemsky would fit
Boston
Lucic - Krejci - PeverlyHemsky
Marchard- Bergeron - Seguin
Buffalo
HemskyLeino - Roy - Pominville
Ellis - Adam - McCormack
Ottawa
HemskyGreening - Spezza - Michalek
Foligno - Turris - Alfredsson
Toronto
HemskyLupul - Bozak - Kessel
MacArthur - Grabovski - Kulemin
(Before people jump all over this one, think about Kessel and Hemsky together! Look at what a very young and inexperienced Kessel did with a set-up guy like Savard. Also, a deal for Hemsky between these two teams would likely involved MacArthur or Grabovksi so Lupul would support the 2nd line).
Montreal
Are you kidding? I don't even need to list out this one. Hemsky is a better forward than ANYONE in Montreal with the exception of maybe Gionta 3 years ago.
Pittsburgh
HemskyKunitz - Malkin - Neal
Dupuis - Jeffery - Kennedy
So, if you look at the actual lines involved, Hemsky would be on the 1st line of each of these teams with the exception of maybe Toronto.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2012 : 13:59:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4178
Montreal: Cole and Pacioretty would probably be a wash, but I would take Gomez and Gionta over Hemsky
Man, i never thought i'd see Gomez's name in this, especially not with "i would take Gomes over Hemsky" attached to it!! 
Bottom line is, there's too much variable in line combos. Who's to say that Hemsky wouldn't click with the number 1 centers on some of these teams? He's def capable of being a first liner, but he's not really shown that very often and is frequently referred to as an underachiever. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2012 : 14:00:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Boston
Lucic - Krejci - PeverlyHemsky
Marchard- Bergeron - Seguin
Peverley does not play on the BOS top line, Horton does (with Lucic and Krejci). I don't think that Hemsky replaces Horton on that line.
Skill being equal, Hemsky is probably good enough (when healthy and motivated) to play on any team's top line. However, the reality is that you would probably not mess with team's top lines like that, just to insert a player like Hemsky. The teams that are probably in the hunt for Hemsky already have top lines that they're comfortable with, and are not looking for a top-3 forward. |
Edited by - nuxfan on 02/02/2012 14:04:24 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2012 : 14:08:51
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| For the line combo I used the site fantasyhockey911.com. It uses the line combinations for each team they most utilized in the previous game. Horton is injures. Also, I would suggest that Hemsky with Lucic or Hemsky with Horton would be a likely combination. |
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Guest4178
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Posted - 02/02/2012 : 14:16:23
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Edited...
That's a different argument, whether Hemsky makes most team's top lines. Yeah – he might be a first line player on a lot of teams, but in sticking with what was first presented (whether Hemsky is one of the league's top 50 forwards), I would easily take 50 forwards ahead of Hemsky, regardless of whether Hemsky makes a first line on a certain number of teams.
To make a first line on any team, you are usually one of the top 3 forwards, so in a 30-team league, there are 90 first line players, and probably another 30 or 40 players who get near first line minutes on the second line.
In a grouping of this number of players (120 - 130 players), Hemsky is not in the top half in my opinion, but I think we have agreement on that. |
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Guest7116
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Posted - 02/02/2012 : 14:54:26
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| that really doesnt make sense to me because if you look at detroits top line of Datsyuk Franzen and bertuzzi, if you go to most other teams franzen and bertuzzi aren;t first line calliber. Yet they have zetterberg on 2nd line who could be first line on most teams in the nhl. Same can be said with kunitz on first line and crosby on second when he is healthy. So its hard to base that off the # of players who play first line |
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Hemsky - Time up in Edmonton? 
