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admin
Forum Admin



Canada
2171 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2012 :  22:50:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Poll Question:
Should a player still serving a penalty at the end of OT be allowed to participate in the shootout?

Choices:

Yes
No

(Anonymous Vote)

admin
Forum Admin



Canada
2171 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2012 :  22:51:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I saw this poll on TSN Sportscenter and thought it was an excellent question to ask our members. Love to hear some feedback.
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Guest8366
( )

Posted - 02/09/2012 :  07:37:34  Reply with Quote
I said "No"....a penalty is meant to "reward" the opposing team and give them an advantage. The player who received the penalty and their corresponding team is being penalized for it....considering the penalty is meant to impact the game in a positive/negative way, the offending player shouldn't be allowed to help the team benefit.

Slightly off topic: I also thought it's the same thing in regards to suspensions and the All Star Game. If a player (such as Ovechkin) is suspended for 5 games and that encroaches over the all star game, that player shouldn't be allowed to play regardless because they are "suspended" from playing hockey.
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Guest7752
( )

Posted - 02/09/2012 :  08:09:30  Reply with Quote
"Yes"
The shootout goals are not on record such as "goals scored" for the shooter, or team "goals for", or even "shots on goal" when the goalie makes the save... basiically because the game is officially over.
Since the game is over - and following the logic, all penalties are over too.

If the you voted "No"... and still following the logic, then would you also agree with carrying-over penalty minutes into the next game?
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Guest5744
( )

Posted - 02/09/2012 :  08:22:30  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest7752
[brIf the you voted "No"... and still following the logic, then would you also agree with carrying-over penalty minutes into the next game?



i don't agree with that at all since 95% of the time you're playing a completely different team.
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Guest5744
( )

Posted - 02/09/2012 :  08:23:27  Reply with Quote
admin, can you start a poll on whether the spin-o-rama should be allowed in the shootout if one is not already around?
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Guest4178
( )

Posted - 02/09/2012 :  15:39:51  Reply with Quote
I voted "no," and I don't agree that the game is officially over when the shootout starts. The game is officially over when the shootout ends.

It's not a big deal though, so if the current rules allow penalized players to participate in the shootout, I have no problem with it.

One thing surprises me about the last 5-10 seconds of 4-on-4 overtime, and that is the lack of last second desperation penalties. If, for example, a team is in your end in the dying seconds of overtime, you may as well hold, hook or tackle any player who looks to take a shot on net.

What's the worst thing that could happen? A faceoff in your end? If there's 2-3 seconds left in overtime, coaches should be telling their defensive players to take whatever means necessary to avert a scoring opportunity. The most you're going to give up is a 2-3 second powerplay.
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Shepsky
Rookie



Canada
211 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2012 :  18:47:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, but the last second penalties will lead to rule changes in order to stop them, such as a penalty in the last 10 seconds of overtime would actually result in a penalty shot, and not an actual penalty. As for the original question I don't think a penalized player should be forbidden to shoot in the shootout as the play clock is no longer running.
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Guest8875
( )

Posted - 02/09/2012 :  22:21:09  Reply with Quote
I voted No althouth I dont have a problem with Yes.
I just think if its O.T. you probaly got one of your best guys on the ice, one which may be in the shootout lineup, one that may try to do something to win that goes wrong resulting in a penalty. in which case he wouldn't be aloud to shoot in the shootout. And if this guy can't shoot he can't score, therfore he cant help his team win in the shootout.
And yes a spin-o-rama should be aloud in the shootout. It's Player vs. Goalie. One shot to put the puck between the pipes. If your confident to spin then spin. Do a barrel roll for all i care. It's your shoot you choose.
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Guest4178
( )

Posted - 02/10/2012 :  10:52:26  Reply with Quote
Until the NHL makes any rule changes, I think coaches should instruct their players to do whatever is necessary to prevent a scoring opportunity in the last 5-10 seconds of overtime.

I've watched a lot of games where the puck is in a team's end, and they're operating like taking a penalty is not an option. In my opinion, tackle a player if you have to, especially the player with the puck, or someone in front of the net.

But I agree with Shepsky that if this was a common occurrence, the league would probably make a rule change, but until that time, teams should take advantage of the reduced penalty time by taking a penalty in the dying seconds of overtime.
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just enjoy the game
Top Prospect



Canada
1 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2012 :  18:39:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
here's my take on it ,....if a player is penalized during the course of the game and the ot clock runs out, but his penalty clock hasn't ,it should keep running until a game winner is determined or his penalty is served ,which ever comes first. .As soon as a player from either team contacts the puck , the penalty clock should run until either he scores or its saved. If over the coarse of the shoot out, the penalty clock runs out , then the penalized player has served his penalty in full and should then be permitted to participate in the shoot out. And for the record i think shoot out goals should count as points after all they determine the outcome of the game as do penalty shot goals.As well the game isnt over until until a winner is determined through skill not luck, or why have a shoot out at all and just flip a coin.
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Guest8875
( )

Posted - 02/14/2012 :  12:49:42  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by just enjoy the game

here's my take on it ,....if a player is penalized during the course of the game and the ot clock runs out, but his penalty clock hasn't ,it should keep running until a game winner is determined or his penalty is served ,which ever comes first. .As soon as a player from either team contacts the puck , the penalty clock should run until either he scores or its saved. If over the coarse of the shoot out, the penalty clock runs out , then the penalized player has served his penalty in full and should then be permitted to participate in the shoot out. And for the record i think shoot out goals should count as points after all they determine the outcome of the game as do penalty shot goals.As well the game isnt over until until a winner is determined through skill not luck, or why have a shoot out at all and just flip a coin.


I couldn't find the 'likes this' button
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leigh
Moderator



Canada
1633 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2012 :  12:59:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I say that they should be allowed. If you don't allow penalized players to play you will have people running around targeting the best players trying to draw penalties at the end of OT just to get them off the ice for the shootout. I'd like to take credit for this as an original thought of my own but it was actually Marc Crawford on TSN. I thought it was a good point. Originally I thought no but then he brought up this point and I think it is valid and in fact probable.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5800 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2012 :  13:08:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest8875

quote:
Originally posted by just enjoy the game

here's my take on it ,....if a player is penalized during the course of the game and the ot clock runs out, but his penalty clock hasn't ,it should keep running until a game winner is determined or his penalty is served ,which ever comes first. .As soon as a player from either team contacts the puck , the penalty clock should run until either he scores or its saved. If over the coarse of the shoot out, the penalty clock runs out , then the penalized player has served his penalty in full and should then be permitted to participate in the shoot out. And for the record i think shoot out goals should count as points after all they determine the outcome of the game as do penalty shot goals.As well the game isnt over until until a winner is determined through skill not luck, or why have a shoot out at all and just flip a coin.


I couldn't find the 'likes this' button



How ironic, i couldn't find the "hates this" button! Personally, i think it's as ridiculous a theory as the reason for it i'm about to provide. Let's say a guy like J. Jokinen, who's known for being good at shootouts, has 1 min left in his penalty. What's to stop his team mate, shooting first, from taking the longest possible route to the net at the slowest possible pace, thus killing 1 full minute before he even gets to the blueline. Then, he picks up his pace and takes his shot. Voila, Jokinen can now shoot 2nd.

As for goals counting, forget it! You don't even need to be a purist to realize just how skewed record books would be if these things counted!!!
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Guest8875
( )

Posted - 02/14/2012 :  21:54:00  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

quote:
Originally posted by Guest8875

quote:
Originally posted by just enjoy the game

here's my take on it ,....if a player is penalized during the course of the game and the ot clock runs out, but his penalty clock hasn't ,it should keep running until a game winner is determined or his penalty is served ,which ever comes first. .As soon as a player from either team contacts the puck , the penalty clock should run until either he scores or its saved. If over the coarse of the shoot out, the penalty clock runs out , then the penalized player has served his penalty in full and should then be permitted to participate in the shoot out. And for the record i think shoot out goals should count as points after all they determine the outcome of the game as do penalty shot goals.As well the game isnt over until until a winner is determined through skill not luck, or why have a shoot out at all and just flip a coin.


I couldn't find the 'likes this' button



How ironic, i couldn't find the "hates this" button! Personally, i think it's as ridiculous a theory as the reason for it i'm about to provide. Let's say a guy like J. Jokinen, who's known for being good at shootouts, has 1 min left in his penalty. What's to stop his team mate, shooting first, from taking the longest possible route to the net at the slowest possible pace, thus killing 1 full minute before he even gets to the blueline. Then, he picks up his pace and takes his shot. Voila, Jokinen can now shoot 2nd.

As for goals counting, forget it! You don't even need to be a purist to realize just how skewed record books would be if these things counted!!!


Simple fix, put a time clock on the shooters. Realisticly it shouldn't take longer than 5 seconds and I don't think I have ever seen it take longer. Except for maybe in the allstar competition but in a real game
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Guest3323
( )

Posted - 02/15/2012 :  16:27:36  Reply with Quote
I say 'no' because the game is still on and there is still a lot at stake. If not then why does one team always end up with twice as many points as the other at the end of the shootout? To put it another way, 2 shootout wins as opposed to 2 shootout losses is equivalent to 1 regulation win and at the end of the season that could mean the difference between making the playoffs or not. If a player has nothing to lose by taking a penalty in the dying seconds of OT to prevent a goal then that player would be a very stupid man to not take the penalty. Yes, the NHL would make a rule change if this happened too much and that rule change would most logically be to make those players sit out during the shootout, would it not? And if a team wants to try and send out guys during the wide open 4-on4 format of OT to try and draw a penalty then I say let them but those guys had better be wearing a shaded visor because they'll end up going blind from their own goal light coming on 98% of the time. The other 2% of the time they'll be taking bad penalties themselves (instead of their intended target) and sitting out during the shootout.
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Guest7961
( )

Posted - 02/17/2012 :  11:52:03  Reply with Quote
the nhl rule book is not cluttered enough
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Guest6472
( )

Posted - 02/20/2012 :  19:20:31  Reply with Quote
Shootouts have nothing to do with the actual game anyway, so why sould a penalized player sit out. The game is over and then they're just trying to entertain the fans by letting the best hockey players in the world go unchallenged against the goaltender (no defense chasing them) and most players are doing rediculous moves to show off. Just in case you didn't figure it out, I think the shoutout is a mockery of the game.
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
573 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2012 :  19:25:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This happens on the rarest of occasions, in fact I've never seen it happen. It would be a pretty pointless rule to make.
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Guest6042
( )

Posted - 02/21/2012 :  14:54:20  Reply with Quote
Well, if we're talking logic, can a player who was kicked out of the game, come back, since the game is "over"? The simple rule would be: if you're on the players' bench or the ice, when time expires; you're eligible to shoot. Can't be in the dressing room. Can't be in the penalty box. The NHL could move towards the rule where the first four shooters, (if necessary) have to have been on the ice, when time expired. That would require some interesting coaching moves, towards the end of overtime.
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miles1264
Top Prospect



Canada
1 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2012 :  07:03:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What is to stop a ref from making a bad call in the last minute of overtime to eliminate a good shootout player?
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Guest5744
( )

Posted - 02/23/2012 :  08:00:28  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by miles1264

What is to stop a ref from making a bad call in the last minute of overtime to eliminate a good shootout player?



... dignity. and the fact that its his job on the line.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5800 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2012 :  08:02:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by miles1264

What is to stop a ref from making a bad call in the last minute of overtime to eliminate a good shootout player?



I understand where you're going with this, but in reality, refs are only human and they make bad calls all the time which affect games.

BTW, welcome to the site.
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Guest8875
( )

Posted - 02/23/2012 :  11:46:07  Reply with Quote
I love how certain people are saying the shootout doesnt matter/ the games already over/ It's not part of the game. I guess fighting is not part of the game either and assist dont matter and whats the point in having a scoreboard? For those of you on another planet or under a rock, the shootout does matter the winner gets 'the win' and 2 points instead of 1. But I guess if doesn't matter to you then can we me move my team to your division so all the times our teams play eachother and it goes to shootout my team can get the 2 points.
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