| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
 Posted - 03/02/2012 : 15:04:03
|
The Green Bay Packers just went to market with 'public shares' at the cost of $250 each. These shares have zero cash value and zero voting rights or ownership privileges but do give Joe Q Fan the ability to call themselves a part owner. This publically offering sold 268,000 units and produced $67 million!! This money is being used to expand the stadium, add a new entrance, and introduce a high def screen in the stadium.
My question to you, the PUH brethren, is do you think this strategy would work for hockey?? I know it would be unlikely to see success in a place like Phoenix or Tampa, but what about Edmonton or Calgary??? Specifically Edmonton, where a $100 million shortfall remains for the new arena. Could all or at least some of that money be raised by asking fans to buck up??? Calgary's barn is not much newer than Edmonton's so they will likely be in a similar boat soon.
I know I would proudly display my 'Ownership Certificate' and pay a couple of hundred buck for it. It's a small price to pay to have my favorite team play in a brand new arena. Considering what the normal fan will pay for a night out to a local pub to watch a game on TV, a few hundred bucks to say you are an owner is a pretty cool(and cheap) strategy.
Just think, I couldn't have my negative comments about people who talk about their team as 'we' because they would actually be part of the team. I still might ask for proof of ownership.
Thoughts??
|
|
|
Guest2728
( )
|
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 15:32:16
|
| if they have zero cash value and zero votes, really whats the point. Your not the owner of anything. Im sure the certificate will look neat and the concept is interesting but theres gotta be more in it for me before i give $250 or more for nothing. Geeze maybe watch a game with the owner of gm for one night. |
 |
|
|
nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 15:34:04
|
while the NFL has just started doing this, Euro football went down this road several years ago - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Publicly_traded_sports_companies for a complete list.
I think the strategy would work - what Canadian doesn't want to say they own a small slice of their favourite hockey team? Ironically, it would probably be most popular with teams that needed it the least.
However, I don't think it will happen, if only because being publicly traded means you have to file financials that become publicly available. I don't think the NHL particularly wants teams reporting this. |
|
|
|
Shepsky
Rookie
Canada
211 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 15:40:08
|
| maybe even go the next step and actually put a cash value on the stocks, no voting rights but at least have the stock worth more if the team actually makes money, I mean it works for the business world (doesn't it?) that would also give Joe Q more incentive to go watch and support "his" team, otherwise it really is just a donation to your team, with a certificate saying you did so... |
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 16:49:41
|
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Just think, I couldn't have my negative comments about people who talk about their team as 'we' because they would actually be part of the team. I still might ask for proof of ownership.
Thoughts??
BINGO! That's exactly the reason i thought of before i even got far enough in your post to see you'd mentioned it!  I'd do it just for that! Heck, i could just save my money and say "we" anyway? I think i prob still do from time to time.  |
|
|
|
Guest4377
( )
|
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 23:11:40
|
Very interesting! It's actually very hard to believe.
Could the Oilers do the same thing to any great extent?
Edmonton has a population of around 1 million people, so you would need one in four Edmontonians to make this work. However, there are Oiler fans in other parts of Alberta, and indeed, across Canada.
Getting back to Edmonton, the Oilers have around 14,000 season ticket holders, and a waiting list of a few thousand. And every season ticket holder usually pays for two seats (sometimes more, and rarely less), so there are around 7,000 people or companies who shell out the big bucks for season tickets. Even if half of those 7,000 people bought $250 (virtually worthless) shares in the Oilers, this adds up to less than a million dollars.
But the Oilers have a lot of hockey fans, more than those who can afford (or choose) to be season ticket holders. And if you add Oiler fans from outside Edmonton, this becomes a larger number, but I can't see anywhere near 268,000 fans shelling out $250 for a virtually worthless certificate.
But if they did it in Green Bay Wisconsin (not a largely populated area or state), it's hard to ignore the result.
I don't follow NFL football, but I think the Green Bay Packers probably have a nationwide following of millions of fans. If there are 30 teams in the NFL (or is it 32 - I don't want to check), and there are around 330 million people in the States, this works out to around 10 million people for every NFL team. (Some more, some less.) But not everyone is a football fan in the States (most are though), so let's take out women and children and cut that number by 75%, so we're at 2.5 million. Cut that number in half again and you're at 1.25 million people who might be Packer fans. (By the way, I don't mean to imply that women are not football fans. This is all for illustration purposes.)
So would around a fifth of these fans buy virtually worthless share certificates in their favourite team? Maybe. If so, some would do so to feel part of the team, and some might do so for speculative reasons.
But would this work (to any great extent) for the Oilers or any other NHL teams? In my opinion, I don't think so. I don't think the numbers work for Edmonton, but they could probably raise $5 million with such a "scheme." I think a team like the Leafs could raise substantially more though. For all the knocks on the Leafs, they have a large metropolitan area, and lots of fans across the country.
It's a very interesting idea, and I think it's worth consideration in the hottest hockey markets! What do teams have to lose after all? It's found money, whatever it works out to be!
|
|
|
|
Statman
Rookie
Canada
125 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 23:53:13
|
I like the idea, personally. The naysayers keep mentioning the shares are worthless, and that they are simply a donation, but then again we shouldn't overlook the power of donation. People may well be willing to invest in their team if it means their team will be getting a new and better stadium.
And my guess is the team probably could do a little something extra for those people that are willing to shell out, like perhaps throwing in a free pre-season game. Or turn the whole thing into a lottery and give a nice prize to a randomly selected shareholder. There are lots of little things you could come up with other than just handing out a certificate.
And nobody says the shares have to be $250 either. You could make that much more affordable if you think that will lead to a higher number overall. |
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2012 : 06:44:03
|
The NHL should look into it - it would totally work in a place like Edmonton, IMHO. Rabid fan support, and let's face it . . . hockey means more to the random Canadian than football to an american. We live it, we breathe it. A $100 or $150 dollar certificate would be like owning any other piece of what some may call "useless piece of paraphenalia" . . . what's the difference between that and a $150 jersey with your favourite player on it? Not much really, both are for showing your pride and support for your fave team, that's all.
Funny though, no comments on doing this in the raging hockey town of Phoenix?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2012 : 08:55:15
|
quote:
Originally posted by Statman
And nobody says the shares have to be $250 either. You could make that much more affordable if you think that will lead to a higher number overall.
Funny you say this, i was just gonna say that in places like Vancouver and Toronto where things like hockey tickets and even more generally the cost of living is so much higher than other places, they could prob double that to $500 and make even more!
|
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2012 : 09:01:21
|
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
. . . hockey means more to the random Canadian than football to an american. We live it, we breathe it.
I'm not sure i believe this. I think that's a comment made by many Canadian people / hockey fans in a roundabout way to claim we're more passionate about something.
I've been to NFL football games in more than a couple of US cities and while some are crazier than others, the one's i've been to are absolutely incredible experiences. Around here, at playoff time, i see the odd fan, usually a teenager or someone in their early 20's, with a beater of a car, painted up (by hand at home i might add) with Canucks logos and colours. In the US, i've seen guys with brand new 50 thousand dollar pickup trucks decked out in their team colours, logos, etc. Go to a city like Chicago, Green Bay, Washington, etc for a game and you'll be amazed at the tail gating, the passion, the flags, signs, jerseys, etc that you'll see. Oh, and the drinking. If anyone get's a chance to do this and hasn't, i highly recommend it, especially if it's one of the more serious football cities! I get down to a Seattle game at least once or twice a year and while it's good, it's nothing like some of the other one's i've been to like Chicago or Washington DC. |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2012 : 09:43:22
|
Yeah, I think that Slozo has underestimated the NFL fan. Grossly underestimated. Specifically the Packers. People have to remember this is a blue collar town of 104,000 and they fill (to the rafters) their 72,000 seat stadium every week! This is the 2nd time they have done a public offering and the first one was only for Wisconson residence. In total, they have 360,000 'owners' from their two public offerings.
I am not at all trying to say that an Edmonton offering like this would match the success of Green Bay's situation. However, I do think that something like this in Edmonton (or Calgary) would likely sell out 100,000 'shares.' If they are sold at a rate of $150 it would raise $15 million.
I'm not sure what it was like for you guys growing up, but when I wanted thatn$100 bike and my bank account was empty, it was going to take an awful lot of allowances to get my bike. But if I could mow a lawn or two and make a few more dollars, I would do it.
The Oilers are short 100 bucks and this is a great way to get around 15 of those buck and get some community involvement. |
|
|
|
nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2012 : 11:16:51
|
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Yeah, I think that Slozo has underestimated the NFL fan. Grossly underestimated. Specifically the Packers. People have to remember this is a blue collar town of 104,000 and they fill (to the rafters) their 72,000 seat stadium every week! This is the 2nd time they have done a public offering and the first one was only for Wisconson residence. In total, they have 360,000 'owners' from their two public offerings.
I had the (mis) fortune to spend a week in Green Bay on business a few years back. Just over 100,000 people and they manage to fill their stadium every single week - albeit quite a few of them come from outside the city every week for the game. The entire city is devoted to the Packers - everything is Packers related, its all people talk about everywhere you go. Packers gear everywhere, stores and restaurants fully devoted to the team. I happened to be there during preseason - not even the regular season yet - and you could feel the entire city gearing up like a tightly would spring as the weekend approached, it was mind boggling. And that was just pre-season. Its hard to imagine a city that small being able to support a major sporting franchise - it makes you wonder if somewhere like Saskatoon could support an NHL team. I have never seen anything like that before in my life - not in Vancouver, Toronto, or Montreal.
Unfortunately for me, I'm not a football fan, so the magic of Green Bay was pretty much lost on me in that regard. If you take away the Packers, its your typical middle-of-nowhere town. |
Edited by - nuxfan on 03/03/2012 11:17:30 |
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2012 : 11:23:48
|
Wow, i had no idea that GB was THAT small! Def must have some serious suburbs or smaller cities very near or there's no way they could sell out that stadium on a regular basis.
I'm a HUGE football fan and knowing what i do as a Canadian fan of the NFL, i can truly appreciate the love/passion for the game that American's have. I think it boils down to us not thinking there's any way anyone could love a sport as we do hockey. However, the Americans prob say the same thing back about their love for NFL football! |
|
|
|
nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2012 : 12:34:35
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Wow, i had no idea that GB was THAT small! Def must have some serious suburbs or smaller cities very near or there's no way they could sell out that stadium on a regular basis.
Green Bay IS the "smaller city nearby" Its about 150km north of Milwaukee, and an hour flight from Chicago. Trust me, there is nothing of consequence within a 30 minute drive of GB in any direction - as soon as you leave the city limits you're in farming land.
I don't think its a big deal for people to drive from an hour away for a Packers game though - I would think most people make a day of it, and its only once a week on the weekends at best. Certainly my hotel was booked solid when I checked out on Friday morning to leave town that day. |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2012 : 12:58:45
|
There are around 300,000 in the area surrounding GB, but that is still pretty sick considering the size of the stadium. That's 1 in 4 people in the building every Sunday.
It is not uncommon to hear people literally drive all night to get to GB for a game on Sunday. I don't think anyone can quite appreciate it unless you are there, including me. I know people who have been and I have never heard anyone say something short of it being the most amazing thing in sports.
GB and football is, in many ways, more of a passion than hockey in Canada. Not trying to knock the NHL or hockey at all, but I gotta call a spade a spade. |
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2012 : 13:12:47
|
I have a friend who's been to many games there as he lived just outside of Chicago for 10 years! Frequented Bears games of course, but did make many in GB as well and he pretty much says the same as you Beans.
I didn't realize Milwaukee was that close though and i'd venture to guess half their seasons tickets, or more, are from people there. 1 hour is nothing to get to a football game, especially when you take into consideration they make every game an all day even with tailgating and for those on the east, after parties to watch the west games! |
|
|
|
Guest4377
( )
|
Posted - 03/03/2012 : 13:14:49
|
The state of Wisconsin has a population of around 6 million people.
I don't follow the NFL, so I'm not sure if Green Bay is the only NFL team in the state of Wisconsin, but if so, that's a reasonably big population to draw from.
Obviously, a large percentage of the population lives more than an hour or two away from Green Bay Stadium (I have no idea what they call their stadium), but even if they're not season ticket-holders, distant fans will make a point to see a game or two a season. And TV viewers count as fans too!
Once again, I don't follow the NFL (which is quite obvious), but even I know that the Green Bay Packers are a big deal, and that they have tremendous fan support! |
|
|
|
2ForInstigating
Top Prospect
13 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2012 : 17:02:54
|
This is the dumbest idea I've ever heard of. Yeah, maybe its the next best thing to watching a home game, live at your favorite teams arena, but thats if you live across the country.
What about all the people that have season tickets, or just buy half the season in random tickets? They are far more of a shareholder than Joe Q WastedMoney, and his Xeroxed worthless paper that he's framing....
Its a cash grab. Its a reason for them to mismanage more money.
With all the sponsorship they get, the advertising money, discounts on bulk equipment, overpriced season tickets, overpriced single tickets, ridiculous paychecks, and still need to milk the fans for more? are you kidding? If I went to games on the regular and didn't get one for free, that'd be the last time I went to the stadium. Edmonton wants a new stadium, hit up Rexall. Or find the next company in line, rename the place. Im sure there is someone who will. And if your just watching the games on tv, who cares how old their arena is.... the cameras a new, the lightbulbs will always get replaced...
I know that Leafs tickets are through the roof, just to watch a team lose all year, in a brand new building. What would be the point of them to do this, other then to milk people of more money?
well, "we" got a new arena... well, not me personally... the people that live in *insert city name here*, and make it out to every game, did... I got the bill..... |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Publically Owned Hockey Teams?? 
