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Guest2467
( )

Posted - 05/11/2013 :  11:40:32  Reply with Quote
Thank god Boston has road ice advantage.
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Oilearl
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2013 :  07:27:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Bruins completely dominated the Leafs in the third period if not for Reimer this series would be done I wonder if he can repeat this for two more games?
Very funny quest Road Ice!! lol
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Guest4271
( )

Posted - 05/12/2013 :  22:34:41  Reply with Quote
I'm a die hard Bruin, BUT what is wrong? Friday they sucked for two periods and Sunday was brutal also. If they win they are lucky......Toronto has all the momentum, but hopefully the third period Bruins show up Monday night.....please
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4603 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2013 :  05:19:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4271

I'm a die hard Bruin, BUT what is wrong? Friday they sucked for two periods and Sunday was brutal also. If they win they are lucky......Toronto has all the momentum, but hopefully the third period Bruins show up Monday night.....please



I've been hearing this lament a lot from Bruins fans lately, but sometimes in a close series, it's really hard to tell what exactly is actually happening: is it the effectiveness of the opposition, or is it the poor play of your team?

To evaluate, I think you have to look at those basic differences of the two teams, and know that Toronto is younger, fresher, faster in general, a quick counter-attack team; and Boston is older, more tired, obviously more experienced, and a cycling from the boards style team.

When Toronto has "dominated" (please take that with a grain of salt - there has been no true domination of another team since after Game 1), they have been successful at breaking the Boston cycle in their defensive zone, and they have made many quick break counter-attacks. When Boston has "dominated", they have won those offensive zone board battles and been able to cycle long enough to put the Toronto D in a tizzy - usually happening with the Krejci line.

This Game 7 will be won or lost in the Toronto zone along the boards, first and foremost. The goaltending has been stellar on both sides, each goalie has surprised me frankly. The slight advantage for offense I think goes to Toronto, as I think Boston's forwards have missed some more glorious chances to score than Toronto has, and despite Kadri not having a goal, I think I can say the scorers for Boston are holding their sticks a little tighter - despite the gap in experience.

To me, as long as the goalies play equal - as they did from Game 2 onward, I'd say, outside of that OT goal that Reimer gave up - it's coming down to who wants it more on the boards.

These teams are real, real close. Who would've thought?

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4603 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2013 :  05:24:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Sorry Slozo but the topic is Toronto vs Boston and the players will determine which team wins....so i guess they will be part of this tread conversation.

Whats wrong with some heated debate here anyway ? This is fun and keeps everyone more interested in these posts.

Good points everyone, i agree with most all of them :

1 ) Phaneuf should not have pinched in OT.....so stupid

2 ) Reimer should have had that shot.....( even though the situation would not have existed if not for Phaneufs stupidity )

3 ) The forwards should have covered for Phaneuf....( but the problem was when Phaneuf missed the Boston player he hit 2 Toronto players and stopped them from getting back !!! )

That will be my last post on that play Slozo, maybe not Phaneuf....lol...

Anyway, i guess there aren`t many negative Reimer comments after Friday night and i suppose Phaneuf will survive another day in Toronto.......

Can`t wait for game 6 Sunday, i wonder which leaf team will show up ?? If the right one does, game 7 will be a barn - burner.



I was waiting all Sunday night, and now it's almost 8:30am Monday . . .

Duke, my man . . . where is your praise for Dion's goal and awesome defensive play last night?

[ crickets chirping ]

Anyone? Anyone?

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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The_Gipper
Rookie



Canada
213 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2013 :  07:36:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
one could make arguments for momentum, game 7 experience, nerves, etc., etc., etc....
but for me game 7's are all about the moment and which team will seize it the most. it doesn't matter that the Leafs have the momentum; that the Bruins top line has been quiet all series; that perhaps we're seeing a bit of fatigue in guys like Chara who are logging mega-minutes each game. all that gets thrown out the window because its down to just ONE game. all stats, trends, experience....it just doesn't matter.

Game 7, here we go......BRING IT ON!!
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



716 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2013 :  07:39:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dion is the best!

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Guest4178
( )

Posted - 05/13/2013 :  09:45:39  Reply with Quote
F(enough) already! Phaneuf is a goat one day, and a hero the next? I don't think one game (or play) sums up any player's total value.

When Phaneuf made the "gaffe" in game four, his pinch could have very well gone the other way. And when he scored the first goal in the Leaf's 2-1 victory over the Bruins in game six, his pinch could have cost the Leafs an odd-man rush the other way.

And getting back to game four, Phaneuf's "bad" pinch would not have happened if a number of other things had happened earlier in the game, or in overtime for that matter. How about Matt Frattin hitting the post in overtime? Or Rask's big save over Lupul?

Phaneuf is not the only player to have great moments one game (or period), and lapses at other times.

How about Chara's play in game four, which the Bruins happened to win? Chara had a terrible first period, and was on for both goals scored by the Leafs. Chara (and the Bruins) bounced back, and Chara ended up with four assists that night. But if the the Leafs scored in overtime (which oftentimes comes down to luck), it's a different game story.

Hockey is a game of inches, and some "gambles" pay off, and some do not. To blame one player for a loss, and suggest that Phaneuf should lose his captaincy or retire ("Not only should Phaneuff lose the "C", he should consider retiring. He is noticeable slower than anyone out there and does not instill any confidence when handling the puck") is a bit of an overreaction, and probably just letting emotions get in the way.

Phaneuf has been accurately described by a lot of posters, but I think Beans summed him up best.

You're bound to see good games and bad games (or periods, or plays, etc.) from most players, so why should Phaneuf be judged any differently. (Or harshly because of one play.) But for some reason, Phaneuf's play (good or bad) is magnified, while other players go unnoticed.

The Ducks were eliminated last night, and while I only caught three games in the Duck-Wings series, Corey Perry looked almost invisible. And how about Parise in Minnesota? One point in their series, and for the money he gets paid? And Pacioretty was terrible in the Sens-Habs series, to such an extent that his own teammate (P.K. Subban) was seen calling him out.

No goat's horns for these players though, or at least not to the extent Phaneuf is judged.

The Leafs deserve a lot of credit for taking the Bruins to game seven, and Phaneuf deserves some of this credit.

From what I've seen of Phaneuf this series, he's played well. As for the Bruins, you could easily point to the Seguin-Marchand-Bergeron line as their biggest disappointment. They have a combined 3 points between them, so if the Leafs prevail, you have to point to the ineffectiveness of this threesome as a factor.

But if the Bruins happen to win game seven, there's only one person to blame, and that's Dion Phaneuf! :)
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8186 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2013 :  09:46:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tweeted today by and Edmonton radio personality:

Boston was up 3-1 on Montreal is 2004 and up 3-0 on Philly in 2010. Lost both series. Can they lose another??


Part of me would like to see Toronto and New York win. For me, it would mark the true transition into the salary cap system. NY and TOR were known as teams who bought the most expensive players and bought their teams. Neither team has had much success since the cap was introduced and this, for me, would be the time where the new system has prevailed.


Another part of me still really hates the Leafs and wants Boston to spank them like children.

I wonder which part of me will come out when I turn on the TV in about 7 hours?????
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1041 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2013 :  12:44:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes Slozo, Phaneuf had a good game...hopefully he has learned his lesson and will play with more intelligence.....Man is Jake Gardiner turning into Toronto`s leader on defense.

Oilear, nothing personal but i hate when people post ( as you did ).............. if not for Reimer in the 3rd period the Bruins would have won.......This series is 6 games long, so far, 1 period doesn`t make a series.....Have you seen some of the saves that Rask has been making ??? The leafs lost games 3 and 4 while pushing 50 shots !!! Reimer has been great BUT so has Rask. Right now i could post.........if the leafs won game 4 in OT than Boston would be out, BUT they didn`t.......this has been an excellent series and the winner will be announced tonight.






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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1905 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2013 :  14:52:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Tweeted today by and Edmonton radio personality:

Boston was up 3-1 on Montreal is 2004 and up 3-0 on Philly in 2010. Lost both series. Can they lose another??


Part of me would like to see Toronto and New York win. For me, it would mark the true transition into the salary cap system. NY and TOR were known as teams who bought the most expensive players and bought their teams. Neither team has had much success since the cap was introduced and this, for me, would be the time where the new system has prevailed.


Another part of me still really hates the Leafs and wants Boston to spank them like children.

I wonder which part of me will come out when I turn on the TV in about 7 hours?????

Ummm, wasn't Boston and Washington pushed to the Cap as well? These 4 teams are always active tying to push the salary cap as far as one can. I don't see this as proof of a transistion, rather the fact NYI, Ottawa, St Louis and Phoenix can compete with these teams and make the playoffs on an regular basis or just short tells me the opposite. I am thinking young stars and cap space will become more previlant now that a good portion of these teams with room to spend are finding success.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8186 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2013 :  14:55:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Duke, nothing personal, but I hate when people posts comments like 'hopefully he has learned his lesson and will play with more intelligence." What a rediculous statement!! Dion Phaneuf has pinched at the opposition blue line for years! I first saw that from him when he was in juniors. Why, do you think for a second, that he will change his play because of one mistake?? Do you think this was the first time he got stung on a back pinch??

Seriously, rediculous.


PS - If Reimer wasn't in net the series would be over. Same likely goes for Boston if Rask isn't in net. What is your point? Just because the Leafs would have won if Rask wasn't in net doesn't make the point the guest was trying to make wrong. He's not wrong at all! Reimer has been a HUGE reason why the Leafs are play game 7 tonight.
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
814 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2013 :  16:15:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry. I can't help myself. You are spelling the word ridiculous the way Cousin Balky pronounced it on the sitcom 'Perfect Strangers' in the 80's. "Don't be rediculous!". Sorry again. I feel better now.

The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2014.
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
814 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2013 :  16:26:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Anyway, I have been impressed with the way Dion has handled himself with the media, which is a big part of being the captain these days. As has been mentioned before, he is what he is, which is what he has always been, and I, personally, cannot pull a Leaf out that would be more suitable for captaincy than Phaneuf.

The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2014.
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
390 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2013 :  19:56:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Absolutely heartbreaking!
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just1n
Rookie



248 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2013 :  20:06:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not specifically a Leafs fan, but man I was hoping they'd pull that off. Crushing!
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3592 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2013 :  20:19:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
wow.

Not to pour salt into an open wound... but I simply don't recall seeing a collapse quite like that, in a game 7, ever. A 3 goal lead with 10 minutes to go... 2 goals in the last 90 seconds to tie? Wow.

I have no love for either team, but I feel a little something for Leafs fans tonight. It is probably going to be a long summer... one can only hope the team will learn from this and be tougher next year.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5800 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2013 :  21:48:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tough, tough loss for the team, the organization and the fans. It would have prob been easier to take if they lost 3-0 in that game 7, but to lead like that, that late, the only thing that can be taken away from it is a lesson learned by a young team. Sadly, that won't be nearly enough.

Tough break Leafers. Trust us Canucks fans, we know the feeling of heartbreak.
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Guest4693
( )

Posted - 05/13/2013 :  21:58:10  Reply with Quote
They sat back and got what was coming to them a Heartbreaking LOSS.. ... If it wasn't for Reimer leafs woudn't be where they were/.. Leafs D stinks...
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Guest9053
( )

Posted - 05/14/2013 :  04:42:09  Reply with Quote
What an amazing game... I felt like Rocky's coach when he's mounting his huge comeback against Drago (I think... or was it Clubber?), rubbing the other coach's head in excitement. Too bad I can't find a gif of it :(
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2278 Posts

Posted - 05/14/2013 :  04:52:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As a habs fan i have no love for either of these teams but watching last nights game reminded me how much i hate the bruins and i found myself pulling for the Leafs, I simply could not believe the ending,

Frattin having a great chance to put the game away, the two in a sense lucky bounces for goals (i know Lucic was right there but that puck bounces anywhere else and the 3rd goal is never scored)

And not to blame anyone but the Leafs for this loss but wow did the refs lay an egg, Kelly breaks JVR's nose Lupul gets crosschecked into the net then punched by a blocker and then pulled out of the net by his face, Chara and Lucic boarding left right and center, the Refs let everything go in this game 7 and the Bruins took full advantage!

Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?
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Guest5052
( )

Posted - 05/14/2013 :  08:13:49  Reply with Quote
You know it was a tough loss for the leafs, but what an exciting game. I was fairly neutral, but fully engrossed.

Its a tough pill to swallow, but if Im a leafs fan I try to look at the positives, that my team did enough to finish 5th in the east, that they played with speed and grit, special teams (esp PK) were much much better and most importantly, when they were dead to rights 3-1 down to their nemisis, they came back and could have won game 7 (perhaps the tough part is that they should have won game 7).

There is room for improvement, obviously. But at least it looks like theyre heading in the right direction with a young team.

Next year will be a big year.... what do you pay Kessel? How do you shore up the back end (it seems to me that they were desperate for one or two steady, tough stay at home dmen, like Scuderi, Orpik of Regher type).

Will they stick with Reimer? I though he played well enough.

The players should be upset by the way they let it get away, but the fans might take heart in the belief that they are becoming competitive again.
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1041 Posts

Posted - 05/14/2013 :  08:53:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans, what are you saying in in response to my post ?? You are posting that people can`t learn !!....thats pretty lame isn`t it ??

Anyway...GOD Da*(**^%%$%$ Leafs...so stupid, stupid. It certainly takes a special team like the leafs to do that .....this is not easy to do you know, this takes lots of practice

Young team without true leadership.

Maybe this will be a blessing in the overall scheme of things. At least now the leafs management won`t be walking away from this season thinking.......We are better than Boston.........We don`t need to change our roster.........

One thing this loss will surely do is put pressure on Dave Nonis to seek out some better hockey players for the leafs roster next season. ( Just to replace some who aren`t doing their job ).

For the most part it was very entertaining to watch.......thank - you ( 2013 ) leafs, at least you gave us some playoff hockey and a thriller to boot.

Maybe with some off - season additions and several departures, who knows, you may make the final 4 next season.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1905 Posts

Posted - 05/14/2013 :  09:20:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was pulling for a Leafs victory here seriously, but I got a great 1. This year it took the Leaf's 7 more games into the season to choke. If this were an 82 game schedule we would be right on target.

To be honest, good job by the Leafs to take it to 7 like they did. Rangers vs Boston epic.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8186 Posts

Posted - 05/14/2013 :  09:40:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am not going to rub salt into an open wound. That would be cruel and unusual punishment. That said, if you were to tell most Leaf fans that they would not only make the playoffs but push Boston to 7 games, into OT, and lose the game after being down 3-1, I bet most Leaf fans would call that a successful season. They are still getting better, are still a very young team, and the best is yet to come. Keep your head's up, Leaf Nation!

Even better, no riots in a Canadian city!!! Congrats.

I do have to comment on Pasty's reffing comments. There is no doubt the refs let the boys play last night and I am happy they did. I would never agree that any calls made or not made last night impacted the game. Boston came back, and not because of the refs.

I also think it's interested that I saw the same plays as Pasty but my perception was very different. I saw JVR interfere with Kelly and hold him down as JRV was lazily get to his feet. Kelly then popped him in the lips. Lupul did get pushed into Rask but Lupul also made sure that he got every piece of Rask on his way into the net, including nearly hitting him in the head with his skate. Chara and Lucic boarding? Sure. Phanuef and Orr doing the same thing?? Yep.

The refs didn't let either team get an advantage but let them play. Personally, I loved the intensity of both teams and it was one of the best games I have ever watched. No need to shoot down the refs for not getting in the way of the players.
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1041 Posts

Posted - 05/14/2013 :  12:23:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans, i agree that the ref`s didn`t determine the outcome of the game but Boston sure seemed to be getting away with some beauties.

Wasn`t that a head - shot on JVR ??? what determines a head - shot ? If they were standing upright and Kelly elbows a toronto player directly to the head, face area and breaks his nose ( which he did ) would that not be a head - shot ??...........so wheres the call ??.....no call because they were lying down

Could that be considered a head - shot from Rask to Lupul ?? Just asking again.....what is a head - shot ?? Didn`t Rask directly hit Lupul`s head with his blocker ??.......he teageted his head and delivered a direct blow .

Maybe if these instances were called, which they should have, the leafs would be leading 5 or 6 to 1 and a diffrent outcome.

Anyway, enough sour grapes....they lost, bottom line.

Maybe i look at the game diffrently than others but it seems to me that the ref`s are very in-consistent but very consistent towards amercian based teams.

I seem to recall some very obovious blown calls over the years and it seems like they always go againist Canadian teams.....when they play amercian based teams in big games.

1. The above mentiomed.
2. The leafs vs LA in 1993 ( gretzky cuts gilmour )
3. The Canucks vs Rangers in 1994 ( lindens toe - nali in the crease ) dis-allowed goal
4. Numerous calls againist the oilers in 2006....vs car.
5. Calgary getting robbed constantly againist Detroit a decade or so ago

Just a few that comes to mind....maybe i`m bias, i don`t know.....its just the way i see it.

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Guest4178
( )

Posted - 05/14/2013 :  12:28:45  Reply with Quote
Duke on one hand, you suggest the Leafs need to make some off-season changes as a result of their loss to Boston.

On the other hand, you also seem to be suggesting that the Leafs could have won the series if they caught more breaks, or if the officiating was less biased toward (against) the Leafs.

So if you're blaming the officiating, why do the Leafs need to change their team? Maybe they should appeal to the NHL to change the officiating bias?
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8186 Posts

Posted - 05/14/2013 :  13:05:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Duke, let's not confuse a punch or elbow to the face with a head shot. They are totally different things. A head shot is a body check that contacts the head. If the rule was interpreted as you suggest, each fight would include multiple head shot penalties. It's rediculous ridiculous

My point was this: If Kelly should have gotten a penalty for elbow, which would have been valid, shouldn;t JVR have gotten a penalty for interference?? He took Kelly down with the puck no where in the vicinity and then slowly and lazily held Kelly down while JRV climbed over him. If Rask gets a roughing penalty, should Lupul get goaltender interference?? I know Lupul got pushed but he also is supposed to do anything in his power to safely avoid the goalie. He didn't do that.

So, rather than calling two penalties the ref called zero. I'm fine with that.


Finally, what bothers me when people complain about the refs is that rare, if ever, do you hear someone complain about the refs when their team wins. I mean, if there is games that are lost because of the refs there has to be games that are won in spite of the refs, right?? I don't think you can have one without the other.

Good and bad calls happen and sometimes bad calls impact a game. I don't think that is the case with this game or the series. No team got an advantage from the refs in my opinion. It was a fatastically hard fought series and the Leafs along with their fans should be proud of their showing after being out of the playoffs for so long. Crappy way to end the series but it was awesome none the less.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4603 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2013 :  05:56:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks to all for the generous comments to we Leaf fans.

Just coming back now, still not fully recovered from that devastating give-away game that the Leafs played.

And yes, I do make that distinction - it was a give away. I hear many in the media now (Pierr McGuire I think was one of them) claiming Boston brought their A game for that last half period and the OT . . . but I think that is an error in judging what actually happened. What can clearly be seen is that unlike the rest of the game, once the Leafs reached 4-1, they stopped forechecking almost entirely. Every time that they would have in the past extended a shift to try and attack on the rush - they flipped it in the Boston zone, giving it away, and changed lines. And suddenly, the zest and fury of their past skating, which had left Boston in their dust, became even slower than the Bruins own lethargic pace.

This was 100% on the Leafs, and besides being a team effort in terms of letdown (perhaps excluding Reimer, but, hard to do that from my end too), it was JUST AS MASSIVE a letdown from the coaching staff.

You have the youngest team here, they suddenly have changed the way they are playing, and the B's have made it 4-2. At some point with 6 minutes to go or so . . . why was no time out called? Why put out tired players and shorten your bench, when you have a flagging team? I think the no-timeout thing was a huge oversight by Carlyle.


ALL THAT SAID, I agree with Beans - if you told me before the playoffs even, that we take the Bs to OT in game 7 and lose a heartbreaker (and that Kessel grabs 6 points in the series and shakes the monkey off his back against this team) . . . I tell you we did awesome, and the season is a raging success in terms of reasonable expectations. A lot of perception of the result, however, will lie in the way we arrived at it . . . and there is no way around how ugly that was.

As a Leafs fan, it still hurts - but overall, I am still proud of what this team has accomplished so far. To learn and grow, you have to go through some pain . . .

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5800 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2013 :  07:42:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Slozo...
I disagree with Maguire as well if that's what his claim was. Let's face it, pretty much every team with a lead, especially a 2 or more goal lead tends to change their game and play more to defend that lead. It happens all the time and with a 2 goal lead and under 5 mins i'd bet the team leading wins 95% of the time or more! Unfortunately for the Leafs, this was one of those times it didn't work out. Considering it got to under 2 mins left (i believe), a lot of luck also must come into play for the Bruins. Every bounce of the puck, every little deflection, etc could have been the difference between the Leafs clearing the puck out of the zone and the Bruins keeping it in. Same goes for the tying goal. If that shot is a few inches one way or another, different outcome. I don't think for a second that the Bruins "brought their A game" any more than they simply played desperate hockey and for that 1 out of 10-20 times, it paid off.

The Bruins were extremely lucky to win that game and series.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1905 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2013 :  10:14:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Watching Hockey Night in Canada, I think Don Cherry said it best, as good a game as Toronto played to that point they looked wore down, tired prior to the last 2 goals to tie the game and were shocked by the winner. As hard as they were playing up to that point in the game, Boston desperation and a few energy type or warriors for Boston shifted into another gear. Gotta give credit when credit is due, would love to have Lucic, Bergeron, Chara, Jagr, Krejci and Horton on my team as they are warriors.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1041 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2013 :  11:37:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Guest 4178, don`t get me wrong, i really enjoyed waching the leafs this season, they played their hearts out all year and made the post season, finally.

They played above their heads in the post season, almost had ( and should have ) the mighty Bruins ousted from the playoffs.

You ask me why do i say the leafs need roster changes ??...cause they do of course. Saying this doesn`t dis-respect any of the current players.

You ice an hockey team to win the Stanley Cup !!! Thats the ultimate goal. Do you think the Toronto Maple leafs are good enough to win the Stanley Cup ????.......if you do, i`m glad your not their general manager.......of course they are not good enough to go all the way, they almost won the 1st round but surely no cup contender........BUT they are getting CLOSE.

With a # 1 center, ( which moves Bozak down the ladder )...a # 1 shut-down D- man and 2 bigger skilled forwards........who can keep the puck cycling longer.......the leafs will be a force for sure.

Beans, these points we are talking about are very debale-able. You say fighting blows are not head-shots ( penalty wise )...true...but remember, fighting is legal in the NHL....punching someone in the head while not fighting is not....big difference.......Remember when Tie Domi delivered a head shot to Scott Neid. during the playoffs a few years back and received a ( i think ) 10 game suspension ??....it wasn`t a body ckeck, as your definition suggests.....it wasn`t a fight....what was it then ??......it was a direct blow to the head.

You say JVR took down kelly...did he ? or was it just an in-tanglement.....You say JVR didn`t try to get up...how do you know that...maybe he couldn`t......so because of this its ok for kelly to break his nose ??

You said Lupul didn`t try to steer away from Rask.....why don`t you explain to me how 1 can control their body while flying through the air after being hit from behind ??......this is a hockey play which happens every game but the goalie doesn`t always deliver a blow to the opposing players head or face.

Anyway, enough of this post mortom nonsense, the leafs are gone.

Great season leafs. looking forward to next season....
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1905 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2013 :  11:54:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I wonder how many missed or blown calls happened during the playoff's every year. I'll bet you every cup winning team has been on the wrong side of a few blown calls every year in the playoffs since I started watching hockey. You either get down or use it as motivation to win. Not saying Toronto on this play got down and lost or didn't try to win, but I hate it when the fan's who should be happy for there teams performance, use a play or 2 to justify why there team didn't prevail. Toronto fan's be happy, just because its not your year to hoist the cup, but Toronto wasn't even suppose to make the playoffs or challenge a favorite to win in game 7 of the playoffs at all.

Be happy your team is on the right track and hope for better puck luck next year.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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Guest4178
( )

Posted - 05/15/2013 :  12:45:47  Reply with Quote
Hey Duke every team makes (and/or needs to make) roster changes during the off-season, even the Stanley Cup champs.

My point was that on one hand, you seemed to suggest the refs cost the Leafs the series (or at least had an impact), so with tongue firmly planted in my cheek, I was suggesting that if this was the case, why make wholesale changes? If the officiating cost the Leafs the series against the Bruins, or if they were the beneficiary of a lucky bounce, they very well could have won the series.

And who knows? Maybe gone on to win the cup? Any one of the 16 teams can win the cup. It's so close when you get to the top 16 teams who make the playoffs, and this is why most prognosticators are lucky to pick 5 or 6 series winners in the first round. As I've stated before, a monkey spinning a wheel can pick the winners (on average) in 4 out of 8 first round series.

One last point. Fighting is not legal in the NHL. It's tolerated at some level, and while the two combatants do not leave their team(s) shorthanded, they are penalized 5 minutes for fighting. (And if a player has three fights in the same game a very rare occurrence - they are ejected from the game.)

But I get your point. After you are already engaged in a fight (which in itself is illegal), you are "legally" allowed (without further penalty) to punch the guy as many times as you want. Unless and/or until the officials call you off, or you deliver a late blow to a vulnerable player, especially a player who may already be on his back, with his head on the ice.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3592 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2013 :  13:53:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
Beans, these points we are talking about are very debale-able. You say fighting blows are not head-shots ( penalty wise )...true...but remember, fighting is legal in the NHL....punching someone in the head while not fighting is not....big difference.......Remember when Tie Domi delivered a head shot to Scott Neid. during the playoffs a few years back and received a ( i think ) 10 game suspension ??....it wasn`t a body ckeck, as your definition suggests.....it wasn`t a fight....what was it then ??......it was a direct blow to the head.




Fighting is not legal in the NHL - it is penalized like any other illegal infraction in the NHL.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5800 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2013 :  14:58:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I didn't get to see game 7 (TO / Boston) except for the OT as i was working and got home as OT started. I can't comment directly on the calls that were or were not made, however, after reading a few of these recent posts, i'm not entirely on board with some opinions.

Of course some blown call can cost a team a game, and in this case, with it being game 7, possibly a series! I can't stress enough that i'm not a conspiracy theorist, but these mistakes can have a HUGE affect on the outcome of a game/series and these refs need to be held accountable for their errors! I do believe the league does do this to an extent as far as which refs are awarded playoff games as the number of officials needed dwindles? The "Gretzky cuts Gilmour" example is perfect. That should have been called and it obviously could have had a huge influence on that game and series!!!

Beans, i get what you're saying about nobody complaining about refs when their teams win but it does happen occasionally, albeit usually in a reply to a complaint from a fan on the opposite side. It's pretty clear to me why this is though. When your team is "screwed" by what you feel is an obvious blown call, it's much more likely that you'd complain as you'll feel it cost your team the game. Same goes for players. Unless the refs were so atrocious that it's beyond belief, what player is going to risk a fine / punishment for vocalizing how bad a ref was? Think of what this will do to them in the future!!! I'm just not sure how this lack of complaining by the winning side "bothers" you? I think it's pretty obvious why this happens and i fully expect it. I think we're a long ways away from this:
Reporter: So, you won the cup, congrats! Though there seemed to be some questionable calls. What'd you think of the officiating?
Player: WoooHooo! I'm a champ. I gotta thank those refs! They totally screwed the other team and we took advantage of it! WooHoo! We, are the champions......We, are the champions....No time for......blah, blah.....



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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



716 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2013 :  17:08:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ouf ! so heartbreaking.

Still can't get my head around what I witness two days ago. Young and inexperienced team and the Boston Bruins had the experience. Boston had that kind of heartbreaking series against Philly in 2010 and now they brought it to the Leafs. Slozo you pointed out a good point on the coaching staff, they should have took a timeout and talk to the kids, get them to keep playing like they should of.

*Is it me or right before the third goal by Boston, Toronto had a chance at the open net and decided to clear it and change???? Gosh man that was so heartbreaking.

I would not change many things on the Leafs team. Maybe add a first line center (of course and if available) and a third or fourth line center that can win draws. They were brutal on the draws all season long.

Gardiner looked awesome, even though he made some costly mistake, but he took chances and really became a good player to watch during the playoffs. Reimer was great the whole season and in the playoffs (he brought the Leafs to the game 7) He needs to work on rebound control.

Fraser, Kostka and Holzer playing good hockey brought depth to a well rounded defense.

Kadri's season was a one to remember and adds a second offensive threat to support guys like Kessel, JVR and Lupul.

McLement was a warrior and a leader. Made our PK better instantly. Kulemin helped in that department also.

Komarov hits like a freight train. McLaren and Orr will fight anybody.

The only guys I wouldn't mind seeing leave are Grabovski and MacArthur. And Maybe Liles (especially now that Gardiner seems ready) They could leave and be replace with size and/or toughness. Not too sure about Bozak yet, great 3rd line center, but not first or second.
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro



Japan
891 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2013 :  20:56:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Making a brief break from my retirement from hockey fandom.

"This was 100% on the Leafs, " says Slozo.

Though I certainly agree that the Leafs stopped forechecking (amongst other things) and maybe just felt too comfortable that the "lethargic" skating and goal-struggling Bruins just wouldn't be able to mount any sort of comeback, I think I have to allocate at least a few of those 100 percentage points noted above to the Bs, maybe

1% (or perhaps a bit higher) to Bergeron's clutchness
1% (or perhaps a bit higher) to Lucic's warrior-like effort (and a great play on the 2nd goal)
1% (or perhaps a bit higher) to the Coaching Staff for the designed plays
1% (or perhaps a bit higher) to Rask for keeping his focus when the team was down
1% (or perhaps a bit higher) to the combined efforts of a number of guys (Seguin, Krejci, even Hamilton, with a nice feed to get Bergeron going on the OT goal, etc.)

Having said that, I agree, A-game, "Good Bruins" game or however you want to describe it, the Leafs not playing more smartly with that lead was the key element of this collapse.

I feel your pain Slozo et al! In May of '79 I was you (and certain household articles felt my wrath!).

But hopefully for the Buds (my second favorite team), this is part of a longer term story that will end in glory.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4603 Posts

Posted - 05/16/2013 :  05:22:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by andyhack

Making a brief break from my retirement from hockey fandom.

"This was 100% on the Leafs, " says Slozo.

Though I certainly agree that the Leafs stopped forechecking (amongst other things) and maybe just felt too comfortable that the "lethargic" skating and goal-struggling Bruins just wouldn't be able to mount any sort of comeback, I think I have to allocate at least a few of those 100 percentage points noted above to the Bs, maybe

1% (or perhaps a bit higher) to Bergeron's clutchness
1% (or perhaps a bit higher) to Lucic's warrior-like effort (and a great play on the 2nd goal)
1% (or perhaps a bit higher) to the Coaching Staff for the designed plays
1% (or perhaps a bit higher) to Rask for keeping his focus when the team was down
1% (or perhaps a bit higher) to the combined efforts of a number of guys (Seguin, Krejci, even Hamilton, with a nice feed to get Bergeron going on the OT goal, etc.)

Having said that, I agree, A-game, "Good Bruins" game or however you want to describe it, the Leafs not playing more smartly with that lead was the key element of this collapse.

I feel your pain Slozo et al! In May of '79 I was you (and certain household articles felt my wrath!).

But hopefully for the Buds (my second favorite team), this is part of a longer term story that will end in glory.



All nicely said Andyhack.

And I probably was unfair, assigning 100% blame on the Leafs . . . and I'd even up a couple of your percentages. To whit:

1% to Bergeron's clutchness

2% to Lucic's warrior-like effort (and a great play on the 2nd goal)

6% to the Coaching Staff for the designed plays - great point plays, putting out 5 forwards and Chara in front of the net, essentially playing with 3 D for the last ten minutes.

10% to Rask for the save on Frattin's breakaway, and other key saves, including two good ones in OT

82% to the Leafs total letdown, of which that would be further broken down as:
- 14% Carlyle - no timeout, puts out tired guys instead of fresh legs
- 2% Reimer for not making any key saves, bad positioning on that tying goal where he was already flopped on the ice
- 5% Frattin - dude, that breakaway would have won us the series!!!
- A shared 61% amongst all the Leafs on the ice for the last 10 minutes of the third period, the largest share going to the forwards who chose to dump the puck in the B's zone, not forecheck, and in general, played at half speed. From memory, that was Grabovski, Kessel, MacArthur, Kadri, Kulemin being the worst offenders, and I would almost take out McClement and JVR from this, but it's from memory so I can't be sure.




"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5800 Posts

Posted - 05/17/2013 :  00:42:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry Slozo....that makes 101%. So, unless you're one of those guys who actually believes the saying "we gave 110% effort out there tonight"....your math needs work.
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