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Axey
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
877 Posts |
 Posted - 12/16/2007 : 09:47:25
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Everyone must have seen his heard his comments about Kostitsyn's hit(rub, some might say) on McCabe. I think that is ridiculous of him to act how he did about such a weak hit, that only injured McCabe because of his akward position on the boards. Whats your opinion?
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 09:48:59
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You know what, Maurice is frustrated and is blaming things on others. He is a good coach, suffering with a team that gives him nothing to work with. Obviously, things start to annoy you. When you lose a player like that after a big important loss, you might point fingers just to get the media off your back and your anxieties off your chest.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 10:39:24
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| Dammit Anyway, That was a dirty play if there every was one. This Kostitsyn guy grabbed him on the arm with his inside arm up near the shoulder and turned him into the boards where he put his weight into the hit driving McCabe's held arm awkwardly into the boards. It was a bush league play for sure. That stupid piece of work even looked over to see if the ref caught the hold as he skated up ice. What the hell were you people looking at? Oh, I get it, it was just a Leaf so it was a clean hit. You Leaf bashers only see what you want to see. I suppose Maurice who was standing there a few feet from the play doesn't know anything about hockey? He was just upset about losing the game? If that was the case he would have hung himself long ago with the crappy start the team had. That is the first time I have seen him use profane language on the air since he has been with Toronto. That Kostitsyn piece of crap is going to pay large for that little piece of indescretion. I'm not sure but presume this guy is a Euro player and it looked like one of those little smart ass cowardly plays from over there. |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 10:52:23
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The Ref could have called a hold, but other than that it was an innocent play.
Holds happen all the time, most of the time without injury, this one happened to cause an injury...
Bad Luck for McCabe, and nothing else...
I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.
- - Marshall McLuhan
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Edited by - PuckNuts on 12/18/2007 07:03:09 |
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PainTrain
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1393 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 16:46:31
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Does anyone have a link to this hit?
Zubov for the Norris! |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 17:45:46
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| B.S. to you guys. It wasn't an ordinary rub when you grab the guy and spin him before you make the rub. It was a dirty play and Maurice had a right to be pissed. If you make a clean rub which does happen all the time then there is no broken hand? It was dirty and it was cheap and that toilet seat reject is going to pay the price. You watch. It looks like a harmless hit until you see the backside replay especially the one in slow motion and you'll see what the goof did. Maurice had every right to be upset. When you loose a thirty minute defenseman and a star player because of that Europeon coward crap I don't blame him one bit. I think your anti Leaf sentiments are showing here again or you plain and simply didn't see all the camers angles. I have seen it a number of times on Leafs TV and every time I see it i'm pissed. |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 17:50:22
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| Hey Axey, he was in that awkward position because the toilet seat goof grabbed him and turned him before he made the rub. Maybe you should open your prejudiced eyes instead of trying to protect the little puke. |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 17:55:10
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I think you've got to realize that in slo-mo everything seems so calcualted and thought out. Well, they are skating their fastest every shift, mental and obviously physical fatigue kicks in. All the guy new was that his goal at that moment in time was get the puck, the play that they slow down into 10 seconds happened in at most two, no ways he even thought about what he was doing.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 18:29:46
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Sorry Alex, I can't agree with you this time. It was a dirty play that caused an injury. Even in fast motion from that rear angle it was dirty. It was a cheap play and he got away with it. He even looked over to see if he was being called for it. I can imagine the uproar if it had of been McCabe who did this to Koivu or somebody like that. You can sugar coat it all you want because it is a Leaf but I don't blame Maurice one iota for freaking out.
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Guest2458
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Posted - 12/16/2007 : 19:01:49
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| Ya leaf fan grow a brain Mcbaby was hardly touched by the free hand as for spun I dont think so!! The only people that will call that a dirty play is a leaf fan looking for excuses as to why the parade is cancel again this year! |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 19:42:54
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Guest, while in not as an agressive manner, I agree with you. Maurice, inadvertently, subconciously, whatever-ly you want to call it, needs an excuse. His team sucks, it is not his fault. He needs to start pushing back at the media that is always on him like the white of a golf ball. The guy was a great coach in Southern States, comes to Hockey's Money Capital, and is the scapegoat for
5 000 000 people. That type of pressure can get to you.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
877 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 21:09:27
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I myself like Maurice but I"m saying he shouldn't be so outraged and blaming his brutal team on things like that. Although with McCabe out of the line up that might put T.O's GAA down a tad , and Antroman calm down I don't blame you, not winning a cup 40 years can do that! |
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Guest2458
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Posted - 12/17/2007 : 00:54:14
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| Leaf fans all over should be thanking the young hab he took away there larges liablity now the leafs stand a chance of winning when they get to overtime |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2007 : 10:59:28
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| It wasn't the hit for crying out load, it was spinning him with a cheap hold before the face plant into the boards. He pulled him illegally, left hand on McCabe's left shoulder/upper arm and spun him off balance before brushing him into the glass. The hit itself was a normal hockey play. It is too bad we can't all see the back side replay as without it you can't really see the cheesy part of the play. The normal camera shot that they are mostly showing on the big networks makes it look harmless. I agree with everyone's assessment on that one. I also agree Toronto's chances were slim and none to win the Cup this year anyway but what little glimmer of hope they did have has probably been dashed with this injury. McCabe is the guy that is most hated by the majority of Leaf bashers but he has been the go to guy on defense and will be missed big time. He logs thirty minutes of ice time almost every game especially when the game is close. If you know anything about hockey, and obviously Guest 2458 doesn't, then you would know without me spelling it out that this was a huge loss for the team. I am finished with this post as it seems to be drawing some goony anti Leaf theatrics and I have had enough of that crap. To you Axey, I am perfectly calm now and quite frankly very disappointed in the reaction to this post. I couldn't care less about not winning the Cup for 40 years because you have to get there first to win it. See, that is about as profound as that insipid statement of yours. The Leafs are my team weather they win, lose or draw and that is the bottom line!!!!!! |
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Guest2788
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Posted - 12/17/2007 : 11:31:07
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Biased? Is the kettle calling the cauldron black again?  |
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Guest9252
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Posted - 12/17/2007 : 11:33:34
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First, almost everyone here would be screaming that it was a dirty hit if it happened to a player on 'their team'. Give Antroman a break, he lost his 30min per game defensemen -of course he is going to vent.
Now to the hit itself. The grab and hold while going into the boards actually happens more often than is noticed -probably because usually nobody gets hurt. When the puck stays with the two players as they go into the boards they both want to tie up the opposing player to not let them easily move the puck out after the hit or nudge.
The problem in this situation, in my opinion, is that McCabe was the defensemen at the point holding the puck in the zone and he must have known that if the puck got by him there would be an odd-manned rush the other way -which indeed happened and led to a goal. McCabe was focussed on the puck at the time and not his hand. I am a hockey player myself and in similar situations I worry about the immediate threat and not injury -I assume (unjustly) that I will be fine. I do not think anyone is at fault for the injury (definately not the Montreal player) and McCabe and leafs fans are simply really unlucky with the injury. |
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Komisaurus
Top Prospect
Canada
57 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2007 : 12:28:14
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| Antro, i dont see how you can call that a dirty play because that was far from it, scott hartnell on andrew alberts, dirty, steve downie on maccammond, dirty, kostitsyn on mccabe, not even close, the holding call was there but there was no intent to injure, just a fight for the puck and mccabe left himself a little too vulnerable, i mean even mccabe himself and JFJ has said it wasnt dirty and that there was no malicious intent and that it was just a freak accident, and it was, he got his hand caught in the boards...Maurice was just pissed off from his team playing horribly against the habs and was trying to justify the loss...i feel bad for mccabe because he was starting to regain some form, but life goes on...Go habs GO!! |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2007 : 13:41:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Antroman
It wasn't the hit for crying out load, it was spinning him with a cheap hold before the face plant into the boards. He pulled him illegally, left hand on McCabe's left shoulder/upper arm and spun him off balance before brushing him into the glass. The hit itself was a normal hockey play. It is too bad we can't all see the back side replay as without it you can't really see the cheesy part of the play. The normal camera shot that they are mostly showing on the big networks makes it look harmless. I agree with everyone's assessment on that one. I also agree Toronto's chances were slim and none to win the Cup this year anyway but what little glimmer of hope they did have has probably been dashed with this injury. McCabe is the guy that is most hated by the majority of Leaf bashers but he has been the go to guy on defense and will be missed big time. He logs thirty minutes of ice time almost every game especially when the game is close. If you know anything about hockey, and obviously Guest 2458 doesn't, then you would know without me spelling it out that this was a huge loss for the team. I am finished with this post as it seems to be drawing some goony anti Leaf theatrics and I have had enough of that crap. To you Axey, I am perfectly calm now and quite frankly very disappointed in the reaction to this post. I couldn't care less about not winning the Cup for 40 years because you have to get there first to win it. See, that is about as profound as that insipid statement of yours. The Leafs are my team weather they win, lose or draw and that is the bottom line!!!!!!
sorry antroman i cant even read all of your post anymore you have to be objective about this you are starting to sound like the french canadian announcers that cover the habs games completely one sided and before you start thinking that was a pot shot at french canadians it wasn't just at rds's announcers,,,, we understand mccabe is the biggest player the leafs could have lost short of sundin of course but lets face it maccabe himself doesn;t blame Andrei why should you take it so personnaly,,,,
Pasty |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2007 : 14:47:26
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| I said I was finished with this but I think some of these posts are missing what I am trying to say. Please picture this explaination. THE PLAYERS ARE MOVING FROM YOUR LEFT TO THE RIGHT. KOSTITSYN ILLEGALLY AND OUT OF SIGHT OF THE REF, GRABS McCABE BY THE LEFT SHOULDER AND TURNS HIM TO THE LEFT CAUSING McCABE TO BE OFF BALANCE AND FACING THE GLASS. SIMULTANEOUSLY, KOSTITSYN BRUSHES McCABE INTO THE GLASS WHICH RESULTS IN McCABE BREAKING HIS HAND IN THREE PLACES. Now, that is exactly what happened. You may not like the term DIRTY but I am not sure of exactly how else to put it. It was illegal to put it mildly. Maurice who was standing behind the play and in clear view of the play called it dirty. I know Maurice is a very intelligent person and has never before in his two years in Toronto used profane language on the airwaves. The worst thing he has ever said was we stunk the joint out and that was the night we lost to Washington 8-1. I am sure he wasn't just upset about losing to the Habs 4-1. Toronto badly outshot the Habs in the first two periods and got behind in the game on a couple of fluke goals. Considering the team didn't get to their hotel rooms until three o'clock in the morning after playing in Atlanta the night before I think they played a decent game. As the outcome of the game became more predictable the Habs gained the upper hand in the third against a pretty tired bunch. I wouldn't pat yourselves on the back too much Hab fans as your team wasn't all that good. Price was your best player but I was glad to see the shutout broken even though I owe him a dealt of gratitude for bringing my city the AHL championship last year. I enjoyed the Leaf goal just because I knew you Habbers wanted the shutout in the worst way, after all, your team hadn't won a home game in six starts. One of the posts called me biased and yes I am biased toward my team. I quite frankly do not like the other twenty-nine teams to varying degrees but I do call things as I see them. If the Leafs stink I will say so and if they are winning I can get over the top about them but win or lose I am going to defend them to the end. If that is the "pot calling the cauldron black", then so be it!!!!!! |
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Guest4107
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Posted - 12/17/2007 : 15:15:20
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| Sorry guys I know im a habs fan but I can honestly say that if the situation was reversed and macabe had thrown the puck I still would not have called it "DIRTY" yes there was a loose hand on mcabes arm and yes it does apear that maby mcabe was turned but it was not a malicious hit or a dirty play as much as the nhl would have us beleive there is no clutching and grabing it does still exist in the game but it doesnt make the play dirty |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2007 : 15:26:52
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| You call it emotional and I call it passion. This is a good thing. If McCabe had of done this the the little cutie boy Koviu then you guys would be tying the lynch knot for sure. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2007 : 15:28:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Antroman
I said I was finished with this but I think some of these posts are missing what I am trying to say. Please picture this explaination. THE PLAYERS ARE MOVING FROM YOUR LEFT TO THE RIGHT. KOSTITSYN ILLEGALLY AND OUT OF SIGHT OF THE REF, GRABS McCABE BY THE LEFT SHOULDER AND TURNS HIM TO THE LEFT CAUSING McCABE TO BE OFF BALANCE AND FACING THE GLASS. SIMULTANEOUSLY, KOSTITSYN BRUSHES McCABE INTO THE GLASS WHICH RESULTS IN McCABE BREAKING HIS HAND IN THREE PLACES. Now, that is exactly what happened. You may not like the term DIRTY but I am not sure of exactly how else to put it. It was illegal to put it mildly. Maurice who was standing behind the play and in clear view of the play called it dirty. I know Maurice is a very intelligent person and has never before in his two years in Toronto used profane language on the airwaves. The worst thing he has ever said was we stunk the joint out and that was the night we lost to Washington 8-1. I am sure he wasn't just upset about losing to the Habs 4-1. Toronto badly outshot the Habs in the first two periods and got behind in the game on a couple of fluke goals. Considering the team didn't get to their hotel rooms until three o'clock in the morning after playing in Atlanta the night before I think they played a decent game. As the outcome of the game became more predictable the Habs gained the upper hand in the third against a pretty tired bunch. I wouldn't pat yourselves on the back too much Hab fans as your team wasn't all that good. Price was your best player but I was glad to see the shutout broken even though I owe him a dealt of gratitude for bringing my city the AHL championship last year. I enjoyed the Leaf goal just because I knew you Habbers wanted the shutout in the worst way, after all, your team hadn't won a home game in six starts. One of the posts called me biased and yes I am biased toward my team. I quite frankly do not like the other twenty-nine teams to varying degrees but I do call things as I see them. If the Leafs stink I will say so and if they are winning I can get over the top about them but win or lose I am going to defend them to the end. If that is the "pot calling the cauldron black", then so be it!!!!!!
wow you'd think he swung his stick like a golf club at maccabes head the way you're going on,,, re read what you wrote in bold letters and tell me things like this dont happen 100 times a game?? if you tell me they dont then hockey is not the game for you my friend~
Pasty |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2007 : 15:29:45
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That is a good point about the McCabe on Koivu, but I have more of a tendency to believe that that play would cause speculation, seeing as McCabe is sort of a careless, or in this hypothetical case, reckless player. He is not a very smart hockey player for sure.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2007 : 15:38:29
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| Hey Alex, What is your definition of a smart hockey player? This is getting more puzzeling by the minute? |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2007 : 15:48:13
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He does not think before he acts I find. He just goes in to situations not fully aware of what he is meant to do, what is going to really help... He would be the type of player to make a bone crunching hit on the puck carrier in a two on 1, and let the other guy walk in alone.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2007 : 15:52:29
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| Patsy 7 - This sort of play happens many times in a game but it was an illegal play that wasn't called. A guy doesn't break three bones in his hand every game. A guy usually brushes the other guy into the boards and the play is a common play for sure. The difference with this play is the grabbing and turning him into the boards before the brush. I do not know what is so damn hard to understand here? We have lost our best defenceman to a bush league play. You can downplay it all you want but the result speaks for itself. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2007 : 16:01:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Antroman
Patsy 7 - This sort of play happens many times in a game but it was an illegal play that wasn't called. A guy doesn't break three bones in his hand every game. A guy usually brushes the other guy into the boards and the play is a common play for sure. The difference with this play is the grabbing and turning him into the boards before the brush. I do not know what is so damn hard to understand here? We have lost our best defenceman to a bush league play. You can downplay it all you want but the result speaks for itself.
look personally i don't see the grabb (they tangled going hard for the puck in my eyes) i can see how it could look like a hold but i wouldn;t have called it,, so lets just say even if it was a penalty no more then 2 min we agree on that right?? if the play had resulted in a penalty but no injury had occured would you be able to remember the play? it would just be another 2 min penalty ,, i mean you went on a pretty good rant insulting kostitsyn personally for something any player could have done,,, and i think we can agree kostitsyn is not a dirty player and again for arguments sake i'll agree there was a hold it is an unfortunate turn of events i never like to see someone miss any playing time but it was a intense play that turned out poorly,, by no means do i think kostitsyn deserves to be called anything you referd to him as,,,
Pasty |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2007 : 16:07:08
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| I have been listening to The Bill Waters Show just now while all this stuff has been going on in this topic. Paul Maurice was just on and he was asked by Watters if he has any qualms about his reaction to the play Saturday night. His reply, "I absolutely do not retract what I said". "This grabbing and torquing a guy before hitting into the boards has no place in our game". There you have it boys!!! I need not say more. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2007 : 16:11:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Antroman
I have been listening to The Bill Waters Show just now while all this stuff has been going on in this topic. Paul Maurice was just on and he was asked by Watters if he has any qualms about his reaction to the play Saturday night. His reply, "I absolutely do not retract what I said". "This grabbing and torquing a guy before hitting into the boards has no place in our game". There you have it boys!!! I need not say more.
wtv paul maurice can say whatever he wants he is still gonna be jobless at the end of this year none the less
Pasty |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2007 : 16:17:35
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i'm tired or argueing this with you feel however you want to feel, i tried agreeing with you and you still argue with me so keep up the good wrk kid,, and go leafs go!
Pasty |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2007 : 16:22:35
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| Hey Pasty, People have called McCabe much worse than that on this site. At least I wasn't profane which was how I felt. I will probably hate the little weasel for life now and that is just passion. I think it was a cheap play that resulted in my team losing one of our best players. I am sorry if I offended you personally about this. I hope Belak tunes him up the next time we play them and that is the way I feel about it. I would suggest that rather than trying to make me feel bad for calling Kostitsyn names you concentrate on offering a constructive response to the topic. You are wasting your time trying to show me up personally. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2007 : 16:25:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Antroman
Hey Pasty, People have called McCabe much worse than that on this site. At least I wasn't profane which was how I felt. I will probably hate the little weasel for life now and that is just passion. I think it was a cheap play that resulted in my team losing one of our best players. I am sorry if I offended you personally about this. I hope Belak tunes him up the next time we play them and that is the way I feel about it. I would suggest that rather than trying to make me feel bad for calling Kostitsyn names you concentrate on offering a constructive response to the topic. You are wasting your time trying to show me up personally.
you took care of that on your own my firend like i said keep it up,,
Pasty |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2007 : 16:27:10
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| Thanks Alex. |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2007 : 16:38:06
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Uch, you guys give me ALL the work!  Fine, I will be the first to answer my question.
POWERPLAY (this is most imporant fantasy wise)
Personally, I think the PP will suffer a bit, but recently McCabe has not shot as much as Sundin and even Blake. Blake, as a side note, takes the most shots on the team. The thing is, the PKers are scared of his history on the Toronto point for the powerplay, and tend to cheat a considerable amount towards him. With him out, they might be slightly more predictable.
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2007 : 16:38:19
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| Hey Pasty, You had to get in one more personal shot didn't you? Oh, I'm sorry for not agreeing to everything you said. Please forgive me! |
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star
Canada
2816 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2007 : 16:39:08
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Secondly, I think that 30 minutes is a lot to be replaced by an out of shape team. I hate to say it, but they might need to pace themselves. No one that is called up will be much help filling in this guy's shoes. The third period meltdowns might just be there, especially considering they constantly play speedy Montreal, Ottawa and Buffalo teams.
This means a lot for the standings, and for the city of Toronto. Just when things were going right...
Habs get number 25 this year |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2007 : 16:55:45
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| Hey Alex, The problem with McCabe being out is that he is the veteran presence on the team besides Sundin. The other players gravitate around him and he is the go to guy on the defence corps. Kaberle will most likely be affected the most as they have played so much together and Kabbie seems for the most part lost without him. I think you will see Kubina used in all the same areas that McCabe was used in and his ice time will be increased dramatically. Young Strallman has been called up from the Marlies as the replacement but I don't think he is really ready for the NHL just yet. Contrary to popular belief McCabe has been playing the best defense of his career in the last 15 games and I really do not think he is replaceble within the Leaf system. I think Kubina can replace him adequately on the offensive side and replace his minutes because he played tons when he was in Tampa and flourished. The problem with that is I thought he was a better player in the old NHL because he was a bit of a mauler back then. |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2007 : 17:26:57
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| Yes, he played with Kubina for a few games earlier in the season and played really well at the out set. When McCabe was put back with him they clicked right away and have been together ever since. Kaberle overall has not played as well this season but because of his offensive ability people like him the best but in his own end has not been as effective as he was in the past. His point totals are down as well but this coinsided with Maurice abandoning the offensive game to concentrate on a more defensive system. Kaberle is most definitely at his entertaining best when they just "cut him loose". If you look past those three guys the Leaf defense doesn't exactly scare the crap out of anybody. Coliacovo is travelling with the team and is almost ready to come back but he is not much better than a rookie when you consider all the injuries he has had. He hasen't played a game in almost a year? |
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
877 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2007 : 18:08:56
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| Also if McCabe is placed on long term injury reserve this will save the Leafs money for maybe a trade deadline move to spark things before the playoffs! |
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
537 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2007 : 18:09:17
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| They could have brought Kronwall back up but I think they were looking for a little more speed and I am not sure about this but he might have wanted a right sider and know Kronwall is a left sider. I thought they might have give the veteran Walser a shot because he has been playing well down there but I guess they want to see what the kid can do this time up. Strallman has the skill but not the experience or the strength as of yet. I like Kronwall personally but unfortunately I do not count in this. One of the problems with the cap, waivers and calling guys up is there are certain restictions which I do not totally understand exactly. I know Strallman is an injury call up but you just can't call up and send guys down as freely as you once could. I am not sure how this would affect a Kronwall for instance? |
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Paul Maurice wipe the tears away 
