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Guest8346
( )

Posted - 01/19/2009 :  15:38:42  Reply with Quote
When you look at the contracts you have to look at more than the money, its the years. Right now if I had to take one player it would be ovechkin, he plays harder, faster and is a more natural goal scorer who also works for every second he gets on the ice. You cant argue that a guy who is at the top three in points and hits is not intense and loves the game. I mean that is intensity at its best.

That in mind, 11 year contract on a guy who plays like that is a huge risk, he plays hard, but with hard playing often comes big injuries. One time he is gonna miss one of those hits or throw himself to hard into the glass after one of his spectacular goals and hurt himself bad, and possibly start a string of injuries.

Crosby plays hard to but Crosby's goals are often finding empty spaces with not a lot of traffic, he can move the puck quicker and avoids a lot of hits in doing so. Yes he has had minor injuries so far but in the long run I think will turn out to be a better investment, in my opinion the pens should of tried to lock him up for min 10 years as he will be great for at least that.
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star



Canada
2816 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2009 :  18:09:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
With the recent economic meltdown, Ovechkin might walk away laughing.

The thinking from management and ownership when they inked him to a 13 year deal averaging a little under 10 million a year must have been that he will remain in the top 5 impact players over that time period, but the salary cap will undoubtedly rise. This means they have one of the best players in the league tied up for 13 years and may walk away paying him under 10 million in an NHL where the most a player can make is around 15 million by the end.

But now, that all changes. Many people are predicting the salary cap may actually go down this year. That would leave teams like the Islanders (DiPietro), Capitals and Lightning (Lecavalier) in a bad financial situation.

The other interesting thing here is that a lot of players that sign long term contracts are good players that want to win. It would be interesting to see if they would be willing to restructure the deal so that the the GM can walk away with less of the cap and more opportunity to win.

I doubt any guy good enough to make a little under 10 million a year would want to at the price of never having a good team around him for 13 years of his career.

Sign up for the Great Debate!
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2009 :  18:58:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
First off, many of the "people in the know" are reporting and the salary cap for the 09/10 season should stay relatively the same, or have a minor decrease. Reason being is that most of the revenue for the NHL this season is already recovered and the cap for next year is based off revenue for this year. However, there is a ton of speculation around the 10/11 season as who know what the economy will do.

That being said, that raises a very interesting question. What happens if a team folds?? Does the contract still exist?? Is it null and void?? What's the deal?? It could be an important question in the next couple of years. Let's say that Phoenix closes the doors tomorrow, do those player contracts still exist?? Where are the players contract in the pecking order of creditors if a team goes bankrupt?

That is interesting..................
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ThorntonisTHEMAN
PickupHockey Pro



499 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2009 :  08:44:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Very true, Beans. Good questions! We could be seeing some pretty interesting things happen in the next couple years!

"I'm not dumb enough to be a goalie."
Brett Hull.
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Guest5443
( )

Posted - 01/20/2009 :  17:37:24  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex

The other interesting thing here is that a lot of players that sign long term contracts are good players that want to win. It would be interesting to see if they would be willing to restructure the deal so that the the GM can walk away with less of the cap and more opportunity to win.

I remember seeing somewhere that the contract can't be restructured a la football or basketball. The terms of the contract sticks until expiry. I mean don't you think Niedermeyer, Mogilny, Malakhov.... would restructure their salary to fit into the team and play the game without affecting movement of any of the other players?

I think both deals are just fine each with their pros and cons. Though in 10+ years that contract like Ovie, Lecavalier, Dipietro and M. Richards may be a noose on the team if the cap remains steady at $50M or there about.
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MrD
Top Prospect



Canada
19 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2009 :  19:00:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Leafsfan_94

sid should be making more because no doubt ovie can score 40+ goals on a team like WASHINGTON but crosby is an all around player, he can score he can pass make plays he can skate he can do it all, so he should make more

>>>Go Leafs Go<<<





You forgot 'throw a good hit'. I just find it incredible that Ovechkin is currently 7th in hitting right now. When was the last time a player who won the Richard trophy B2B (speculation for this year I know, but I'd give it good odds) finished top 10 in hitting? Serious question here, because I really don't know and don't feel like looking it up, but I'm sure someone will know this. Anyways, point in hand - Ovechkin is more my definition of a player who can "do it all".

As for this thread's question - it's a moot point as a few have pointed out; different situations, different expectations, different franchises etc. But I'd take 'em both at their respective prices because one thing is sure, and this is why I love 'em both - they simply reek of pure passion for the game and are amazing ambassadors for the sport.

Milbury and McGuire should fight to the death and both lose.
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
662 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2009 :  17:07:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ovechkin deserves more than Crosby. First of all, Ovechkin is the total package player he can score one of the best scorer's in the league. He's a good playmaker, he can hit and a take a hit without complaining. All that Crosby is is a playmaker, not so much of a goal scorer he'll never have a 50 goal season... plus Crosby is a dirty hockey player and a diver. Ovechkin is the most important piece of Washington and Malkin is the most important piece of Pittsburgh not Crosby.. Don't get me wrong Crosby is a good hockey player but to say he is the best in the League is not accurate, that title belongs to Ovechkin and/or Malkin
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Guest4337
( )

Posted - 02/08/2009 :  21:57:21  Reply with Quote
i hate when people say that crosby is the face of the nhl and that he is better then ov. ov gets more goals, crosby gets more assists. ov takes more shots, crosby takes more penelties. crosby is a preppy, girly, sellout. if you like real hockey players, ov is the way to go. ov would be doing better then crosby if his team wasnt garbage. when your team is good, its not hard to be good. when your team is garbage its hard to be good. when your team is garbage and there is still debates of whether your the best in the league or not, thats saying a lot.
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Guest0474
( )

Posted - 02/08/2009 :  22:42:47  Reply with Quote
I wonder if Crosby being injury prone as of late will cast a shadow on a competitive contract with Ovechkin???

Both Crosby and Ovechkin are doing a standup job as being ambassadors of the game. Crosby is the "face" of the game because he is Canadian and he's easier to market than someone who barely speaks english. Which is unfortunate because Ovechkin has a way better personality than Crosby's stereotypical canned hockey player personality.

However, the salaries are based on how valuable they are to the team. OV is more valuable to his team then Crosby is and the salary reflects that.
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
662 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2009 :  22:49:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest0474

I wonder if Crosby being injury prone as of late will cast a shadow on a competitive contract with Ovechkin???

Both Crosby and Ovechkin are doing a standup job as being ambassadors of the game. Crosby is the "face" of the game because he is Canadian and he's easier to market than someone who barely speaks english. Which is unfortunate because Ovechkin has a way better personality than Crosby's stereotypical canned hockey player personality.

However, the salaries are based on how valuable they are to the team. OV is more valuable to his team then Crosby is and the salary reflects that.



Crosby is not injury prone, he's a faker kinda like Lemieux was an Alex Kovalev when things aren't going there own way, they are all a bunch of fakers
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4515 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2009 :  07:43:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
First off: when you're talking about injuries that make you miss a few months, there's no faking. Crosby had a fairly significant injury, and actually recovered very, very quickly - much more quickly than you or I could, although I don't have a team of physiotherapists and trainers.

Secondly, the point about winning Rocket Richard trophies and being in the top ten in hitting: In the modern era, I could only see Iginla getting close, and he won the scoring race in 01/02, and tied for it in 03/04. SO, I checked out NHL.com . . .

For some reason, they didn't have the hits stat for those years that Iginla won/tied, but here's where both Iginla and Ovechkin finished for the years I could see:
05/06:
Ovechkin (14th) - 172 hits
Iginla (87th) - 105 hits
06/07:
Ovechkin (21st) - 184 hits
Iginla (below 180, unknown)
07/08:
Ovechkin (9th) - 220 hits! (that's with 65 goals, remember)
Iginla (143rd) - 98 hits (with 50 goals, he's no slouch)

So far this season, 08/09:
Ovechkin (6th) - 171 hits
Getzlaf (52nd) - 101 hits
Richards (68th) - 91 hits
Lecavalier (117th) - 76 hits
Crosby, Malkin, Iginla - not in the top 200

Ovechkin is one amazing player . . . his bones must be made of steel, I tell ya, because he is a one man wrecking crew, and worth every penny when compared to the other top stars.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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tbar
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
376 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2009 :  09:37:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I find the hitting stat very interesting. Those four guys Slozo mentioned + Iginla are goal scoring machines. They're all in the top 125 (minus Iginla) in the league in hits and I wonder if that stat has an impact on their scoring ability. I would have to think it probably does because they are willing to go into traffic to fight for the puck or wiling to take an extra cross-check to bury a rebound in front of the net. Interesting anyway maybe make for a good topic.


As far as salary goes they both could make league max for the next 15-20 years if they wanted to. They're the best players in the world and get paid accordingly.

I love the intensity between the two players. Did anybody catch the game between them last night they were all over each other. And the post game comments just added a little fuel to the fire for the next game they play against each other. Got to love it.
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Guest1460
( )

Posted - 03/18/2009 :  05:43:55  Reply with Quote
k
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1315 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2009 :  23:08:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SuperSakic

quote:


When Crosby was going out West, to play for the first time in Vancouver, etc. They called it route 87. They did not advertise any other teams this way, or any other players. The focus was Crosby!



And who exactly are "They"? That is the media machine waving a "we love crosby" flag. Why exactly is he "the best player in the world"? Because the media says so....Is he leading in points? Nope! Shouldn't that mantel go to the player who has the most points? I guess you could argue that he had the most points last year and so the Greatest Player title should continue until the end of the current season. But at the current moment he doesn't seem to be playing like the "Greatest Player in the world". I would put Lecavalier, Iginla, Ovechkin, and Kovolchuk ahead of him....

Sorry for getting off topic a bit



And in order to have a "face" of the NHL, it is going to involve a lot of media attention. You can not market a player, without high media interest. It would be a huge flop. Heh.

I did not once say Crosby is the "Elitest" of the National Hockey League. I said he was the "face" of the league. The face of the league in my personal opinion, is one that sells out arenas when they come to your city to play. They capture all of the media attention, mainly that of hype and the positives that player does. I have nothing against Ovechkin, I'm an Ovie fan. I can appreciate a great player of any Nationality, but I do strongly believe that Crosby is the face of the NHL.

Irvine
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Guest9850
( )

Posted - 03/23/2009 :  13:22:10  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by irvine

But Crosby is the current face of the NHL. And as such, he should be paid more.




My ass. Crosby is talented and is the face of Don Cherry's NHL (anti-european). Yes Crosby is a great player and i think is top 7 in the NHL but I don't think he should be paid as much as Ovechkin.

Personally I don't think any of these guys should be getting paid over 5-6 mill a year.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2009 :  15:00:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think this arguement is really missing the point. Ultimately, none of these guys should be paid what they get. It's a ludacris sum of money to play a game. It's not like they are out there saving lives or improving the world.

And to talk salaries is a little unfair. Look at Briere or Vanek and their $10 million salaries. There are many other examples of guys who are getting paid more than their peers to produce less.

Ultimately, argue the players, not the salary. It's a pointless exercise.
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shazariahl
Top Prospect



50 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2009 :  10:52:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Maybe this poll should be about who deserves more money between Crosby and Malkin. If Crosby isn't even the leading scorer on his team, should he be making more than Ovechkin?
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1854 Posts

Posted - 05/02/2009 :  09:25:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
One point about the topic of the long term contract of Ovie's, what happens if he turns out like a similar player no one has drawn a comparison to yet who was considered one of the most complete players of his time. "Eric Lindros" Eric was considered a hitting machine in his 1st five years led the league in scoring and collected multiple trophies. What happens in year 6 when the toll has been takin on the body and the head goes down once for a famous head shot.

Im not wishing it to happen to either player, but facts are facts big name players are targets, for rookie tough guys looking to make a name, playoff times the gloves come off for the veteran's too. Look at the Scott Steven's and Mike Peca type players that go all gung-ho high head shot crazy this time of year. Some players play all game, with very little impact on the game, waiting for a player to forget about them just one time.
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umteman
PickupHockey Pro



USA
419 Posts

Posted - 05/02/2009 :  14:44:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Guys, guys, guys!! Think of this:

1) Washington locks up Ovechkin for virtually the rest of his career. He's locked into the money. No up or down. If Washington doesn't ever trade him, he could never have the chance to win the Cup.

2) Crosby is only locked in until 12/13, then he is a UFA. Not an RFA, a UFA. He can go somewhere else if he don't like Pitt's direction.

3) The Payroll Cap started at $39 million/team in the 05/06 season. Two years later, it's at $50 million. If that trend continues($5 million increase per year), the Cap could be $75 million by the time Sid is a UFA. The rules that a player can make a max of 20% of a team's cap. Today, that's $10 million. In 13/14(the next contract Sid will sign), that could be $15 million. Maybe Sid signs a 10 year, $150 million contract at that point???

Of course, that is speculative, but I think Sid has more potential to make more money down the road. It could happen, that in the 6-13 year of Ovechkin's contract that players are making $15 million+.

On the other hand, Ovie's money is a sure thing. God forbid Sid get's hit by a bus tomorrow, his ability to earn after this contract is gone.

Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!!



And to think that the year Bobby Hull signed his $1,000,000 contract with Winnipeg a typical NHL salary was about $25,000 (around 130,000 in todays money.)

Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?"
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1315 Posts

Posted - 10/13/2009 :  15:54:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SuperSakic

quote:


When Crosby was going out West, to play for the first time in Vancouver, etc. They called it route 87. They did not advertise any other teams this way, or any other players. The focus was Crosby!



And who exactly are "They"? That is the media machine waving a "we love crosby" flag. Why exactly is he "the best player in the world"? Because the media says so....Is he leading in points? Nope! Shouldn't that mantel go to the player who has the most points? I guess you could argue that he had the most points last year and so the Greatest Player title should continue until the end of the current season. But at the current moment he doesn't seem to be playing like the "Greatest Player in the world". I would put Lecavalier, Iginla, Ovechkin, and Kovolchuk ahead of him....

Sorry for getting off topic a bit



Exactly my point. What's makes a player the "Face" of team or the NHL as a whole? Media coverage and what they do for the team.

The higher they are on the media list of must have interviews, must see and the likes. The more money this player will likely generate for the league. And let's face it, in the end it's all about money for the NHL. The NHL is not going to make Zdeno Chara the face of the NHL, even though he's a top player in the league today. Why? Because he just doesn't get the media.

Irvine
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brentrock2
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
571 Posts

Posted - 10/13/2009 :  16:15:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I said Ovechkin because he is a more highly skilled player than what i've seen so far.

HABS RULE!!
brentrock2
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Guest8186
( )

Posted - 10/14/2009 :  10:34:42  Reply with Quote
ovechkin should be paid more as he does a lot more things then just score he also makes the players around him better then crosby does im still not sold on the fact that backstrom semin and green would be nearly as good on other teams
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
601 Posts

Posted - 10/14/2009 :  14:42:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Is one of the things Ovechkin do more of and/or better then Crosby win games, win play off series, or win Stanley Cups?

Just curious.
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Guest0598
( )

Posted - 10/14/2009 :  16:12:39  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4912

the person with the large writing should maybe put a cork in it.
OVIE is the next best Gretzky, are serious
Crosby has already won the Hart, pearson and Art Ross
-youngest captain
-youngest player to hit one hundred points
-120 point season in sophomore season
-6 point game against phillie

Sure Ovie scored one amazing gaol and beat Crosby in the record race, but remember, Ovie is 1 year older then Crosby thus giving him a small advantage in his rookie season where he only scored 4 more points then Crosby.

Crosby also has a more Gretzky type game, vision, patience, playmaking, and 38 goals in his sophomore season, so you cant say he cant score



Haha, Ovie is close to 2 years older I think. Malkin is one year older. Point is, I agree with what you're saying.
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
662 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2009 :  17:28:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
the greatest thing is at the moment Ovechkin is 1st in goals with 9, 1st in points with 16, 4th in assists with 7 and he has as many assists this season already as Crosby has Points. Crosby has 4 goals and 3 assists 7 points +4, 12 PIM, .875 Points per game average in 8 games..
Ovechkin 9 goals, 7 assists, 16 points +9, 4 PIM, 2 points a game average in 8 games...

GO Ovechkin.... Again and Again proving he is more valuable than Crosby could ever dream of being

...And the LEAFS Win the CUP
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1854 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2009 :  17:36:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hanley6

the greatest thing is at the moment Ovechkin is 1st in goals with 9, 1st in points with 16, 4th in assists with 7 and he has as many assists this season already as Crosby has Points. Crosby has 4 goals and 3 assists 7 points +4, 12 PIM, .875 Points per game average in 8 games..
Ovechkin 9 goals, 7 assists, 16 points +9, 4 PIM, 2 points a game average in 8 games...

GO Ovechkin.... Again and Again proving he is more valuable than Crosby could ever dream of being

...And the LEAFS Win the CUP

What happens when next week Crosby goes on a tear. Do we take down the Ovechkin for president signs. The comparisons between these players are very close. They play drastically different on drastically different teams, but in the end one does not completely mute the other player on this arguement. I think we will be debating this for years to come.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2009 :  22:27:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hanley6

the greatest thing is at the moment Ovechkin is 1st in goals with 9, 1st in points with 16, 4th in assists with 7 and he has as many assists this season already as Crosby has Points. Crosby has 4 goals and 3 assists 7 points +4, 12 PIM, .875 Points per game average in 8 games..
Ovechkin 9 goals, 7 assists, 16 points +9, 4 PIM, 2 points a game average in 8 games...

GO Ovechkin.... Again and Again proving he is more valuable than Crosby could ever dream of being

...And the LEAFS Win the CUP





Couple of things.

1) What are their team records??? Oh, that's right. Pitt is on top of the entire league at 8-1-0 while Washington is in 11th at 4-2-2.

2) How many Cups does Ovechkin have??? And don't tell me about teams that are better. Backstrom and Semin far outweight Malkin offensively.

Bottom line, Sid wins, Ovechkin looks good at losing.

Maybe I'm old school, but I'm all about winning.
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
662 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2009 :  22:44:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

quote:
Originally posted by hanley6

the greatest thing is at the moment Ovechkin is 1st in goals with 9, 1st in points with 16, 4th in assists with 7 and he has as many assists this season already as Crosby has Points. Crosby has 4 goals and 3 assists 7 points +4, 12 PIM, .875 Points per game average in 8 games..
Ovechkin 9 goals, 7 assists, 16 points +9, 4 PIM, 2 points a game average in 8 games...

GO Ovechkin.... Again and Again proving he is more valuable than Crosby could ever dream of being

...And the LEAFS Win the CUP





Couple of things.

1) What are their team records??? Oh, that's right. Pitt is on top of the entire league at 8-1-0 while Washington is in 11th at 4-2-2.

2) How many Cups does Ovechkin have??? And don't tell me about teams that are better. Backstrom and Semin far outweight Malkin offensively.

Bottom line, Sid wins, Ovechkin looks good at losing.

Maybe I'm old school, but I'm all about winning.



again it early... Sid didn't lead the Pens to the Cup last year that was Malkin and Gonchar... No one in the League compares to Ovechkin and Sid isn't even the best player on Pittsburgh let alone the NHL...

Personally I don't think Detroit or Pittsburgh will make it to the Stanley Cup finals this year, although there is no team that looks anywhere near as good as Washington or San Jose on paper... I'm going to shoot more on the Lines of a Washington vs San Jose finals with Washington winning in game 6 or 7...

day in and day out over all hard work goes to Ovechkin, Crosby slacks off when things don't go his way and hes a whiner.

...And the LEAFS Win the CUP
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
662 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2009 :  23:00:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by shazariahl

Maybe this poll should be about who deserves more money between Crosby and Malkin. If Crosby isn't even the leading scorer on his team, should he be making more than Ovechkin?




that one is easy... Malkin he led the Pens to the Cup last year, he is the most skilled player on Pittsbugh, Malkin can take a hit without freaking out and crying like a little baby. Crosby is overrated everyone because he is Canadian thinks he is the most valuable player in the NHL, he's NOT, Ovechkin is but Malkin is close... I rather have Iginla, Joe Thornton a healthy Gaborik, Jeff Carter, Mike Richards on my team, they are more skilled and more valuable than Crosby, thats forsure

...And the LEAFS Win the CUP
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HawkinOilCountry
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
318 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2009 :  11:36:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
They're both amazing players and personally Ovie is my favorite for his playing style. But my logic on "who should get paid more" is based on how their teams would be if either guy was NOT on the team.

-Pittsburgh would still be a playoff contender, and the team would still have good game attendance.

-Washington would be the New York Islanders with Pheonix ticket prices and a half empty arena.


I realise that Pittsburgh is top of the league right now and Wasington is middle of the pack, but Crosby has been below average and his team still carried him. Ovie has had to have amazing games just go keep Washington alive in games. Oive does more for his Team and his franchise, than Crosby does. Crosby is a brilliant play maker and an excellent media tool, but the Penguins would be fine without him.

Edit: Spelign

The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal.

Edited by - HawkinOilCountry on 10/21/2009 11:41:10
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Guest8931
( )

Posted - 10/21/2009 :  16:25:19  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hanley6

quote:
Originally posted by shazariahl

Maybe this poll should be about who deserves more money between Crosby and Malkin. If Crosby isn't even the leading scorer on his team, should he be making more than Ovechkin?




that one is easy... Malkin he led the Pens to the Cup last year, he is the most skilled player on Pittsbugh, Malkin can take a hit without freaking out and crying like a little baby. Crosby is overrated everyone because he is Canadian thinks he is the most valuable player in the NHL, he's NOT, Ovechkin is but Malkin is close... I rather have Iginla, Joe Thornton a healthy Gaborik, Jeff Carter, Mike Richards on my team, they are more skilled and more valuable than Crosby, thats forsure

...And the LEAFS Win the CUP

I have enjoyed reading the differnet posts and was not planning to reply but come on you cant be serious.


Ist what happened to malkin the year before.(I think Malkin will be the best of the three emphasis on will) Crosby does more than score he actually back checks. Malkin is a work in progress mind you the rough draft is pretty special.

2. I love ignlia but when is he going to turn it up a notch in playoffs. Crosby has won games by himself.

3.Thornton is invisible when the going gets tough. He cant score so defence just takes his passing lanes away. You wanting him vs Crosby is the reason why some, not all leaf fans lose credibilitilty .

4. Gaborlik when healthy .(oxymoron)

5. While Im a huge fan of all the players you mentioned and would love if any one of them was on the leafs. Crosby at this time has done more than any of them.

Ps I dont care how much they make as long as it isnt coming out of my pocket. If I had my choice to watch Ovechkin or crosby I would pay to watch Ovie. If I had money on a team to win a cup I would pick crosby. That crosby is a whiner is a don cherry production, any player (captain) can be perceived as a whiner. Ilove Mike richards but he is constantly going to the refs (Its his job). Maybe Crosby is a whiners but it has nothing to do with his salary. The arguement about him being canadian makes him more popular, I think is a valid point but on the side that he deserves more money. Because Crosby is from north america and can speak english the fan base of hockey (nhl) can identify with that. Now if the league was in Russia Im pretty sure ovie would be the face of the league along with malkin and, kolvachuk. Again I dont care who makes more.

Also I could be wrong but I beleive that crosby took less than the max so malkin could get the same deal. Im counting on the wizard beans to check this for me.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2009 :  22:20:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hanley6

quote:
Originally posted by shazariahl

Maybe this poll should be about who deserves more money between Crosby and Malkin. If Crosby isn't even the leading scorer on his team, should he be making more than Ovechkin?




that one is easy... Malkin he led the Pens to the Cup last year, he is the most skilled player on Pittsbugh, Malkin can take a hit without freaking out and crying like a little baby. Crosby is overrated everyone because he is Canadian thinks he is the most valuable player in the NHL, he's NOT, Ovechkin is but Malkin is close... I rather have Iginla, Joe Thornton a healthy Gaborik, Jeff Carter, Mike Richards on my team, they are more skilled and more valuable than Crosby, thats forsure

...And the LEAFS Win the CUP




Ugg, so typical. It's like saying that Gretzky was the reason the Oilers won the Cups in thye 80's. Sure, he was the flashy skill and definately brought something to the table, but Messier was the piston in that engine and take him (or Gretzky) away and it's a different outcome.

Crosby does more than just score for Pitt. He does everything.


Malkin is the flash, Crosby is the Piston.


Back to case in point, Ovechkin is the flash, Washington does not have a piston.
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Larrydavid
Top Prospect

Canada
37 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2009 :  04:56:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hanley

Did you happen to see the playoff series between Pittsburgh and Washington last year. It was pretty clear who the best player was. Ovie had a great series but was no match for Sid and the pens. Sidney took that team on his shoulders and carried them through that series. Malkin did have more points the entire playoffs, mainly due to the play of Zetterburg. Without Sidney Pittsburgh doesn't get by Washington. Ovie showed in game 7 how good he is.

Hanley I am not surprised that you put so much emphasis on the regular season. For most fans the hockey season runs into May and June. Lucky for you the season in ALWAYS over in April

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Guest6038
( )

Posted - 10/22/2009 :  09:25:58  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by irvine

Should Ovechkin be making more per season than Crosby?

Why or why not?

Ovechkin signed a 13-year, 124 Million dollar extension. He will average 9 Million over the first 6 seasons, and around 10 Million for the final seven!

Crosby will be making 8.7 million a season, for five seasons.

Irvine

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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
936 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2009 :  09:42:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

quote:
Originally posted by hanley6

quote:
Originally posted by shazariahl

Maybe this poll should be about who deserves more money between Crosby and Malkin. If Crosby isn't even the leading scorer on his team, should he be making more than Ovechkin?




that one is easy... Malkin he led the Pens to the Cup last year, he is the most skilled player on Pittsbugh, Malkin can take a hit without freaking out and crying like a little baby. Crosby is overrated everyone because he is Canadian thinks he is the most valuable player in the NHL, he's NOT, Ovechkin is but Malkin is close... I rather have Iginla, Joe Thornton a healthy Gaborik, Jeff Carter, Mike Richards on my team, they are more skilled and more valuable than Crosby, thats forsure

...And the LEAFS Win the CUP




Ugg, so typical. It's like saying that Gretzky was the reason the Oilers won the Cups in thye 80's. Sure, he was the flashy skill and definately brought something to the table, but Messier was the piston in that engine and take him (or Gretzky) away and it's a different outcome.

Crosby does more than just score for Pitt. He does everything.


Malkin is the flash, Crosby is the Piston.


Back to case in point, Ovechkin is the flash, Washington does not have a piston.



agreed big time

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1854 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2009 :  12:47:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For those of you who say Crosby is the piston and Ovie is not, I disagree. Without Ovechkin Washington would not even be a team on the playoff cusp. As good as Semin Backstrom and Green are they are not good enough to carry that team to the playoff without Ovechkin.

Last year they met in the playoffs in game 7. Pittsburg had the better all around 2 way team and the better goalie. Pittsburg, hats off to them was better defensively, isolated Ovechkin and won that series. If the roles were reversed and Ovie played in Pittsburg and Crosby played in Washington, in that series you would have the same result and Pittsburg would have won.

Both are getting paid $9 million a year now. Only in 2012-2013 does Ovie get paid more as Crosby signed for $7.5 million. When Crosby resigns I guarantee he signs for as much or more than Ovie signed for the remainder of his contract at $10 million a year. By then we will be arguing whether Crosby is worth more than the $10 Million a year Ovechkin signed for.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2009 :  18:24:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh, Josua, don't get me wrong. Oveckin is the MVP of the Caps. However, his play is condusive to regular season success, records, personal awards, and lucrative contracts and endorsments. It is not condusive to winning Cups.

Ovechkin is flash. He produces points, and does it better than anyone else. Even when he doesn't have to. If Pitt needs a face off win, a smart dump in, a shut down shift, a penalty kill, anything and Crosby will do it. If Washington needs the same things, Ovechkin tries to score.

Until Ovechkin learns to win ugly, the Caps simply will not win.


And I completely disagree that Pitt wins the series with Ovechkin in Pitt and Crosby in Washington. In fact, I would emphatically agree that Washington would have won game 7 if Crosby was in a Capitals uniform.

People don't see all the things the guy does in a game and all of them lend themselves to winning.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1854 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2009 :  19:43:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I do get your point that Crosby has a more rounded game, I have said that myself, but that only brings his stock back up to the level that Ovie is on because Ovie is more dynamic offensive player. Both play short handed and yes I would prefer the defensive skills of Crosby, but surprisingly Ovie has scored more short handed goals, a stat Crosby career is 0% on, basically Crosby sits back and Ovie goes for it.

Also +/- wise Ovie this year and last, is better. I know this stat is skewed but it does show a reflection of whether a player is irresponsible defensively.

Using playoff stats is the only clear cut advantage for Crosby, and again that is due to the fact that the team behind Crosby is a deeper team.

Here is a direct regular season stat comparison

CROSBY ---------------- OVECHKIN
Career / 08 / 09 -----------------career/ 08 / 09
GP 299 77 9 ------------------- 332 79 8
Clearly Ovie for the career. Ovie more durable

GOAL 136 33 4 ------------------- 228 56 9
Clearly Ovie.

ASSIST 269 70 4 ------------------- 208 54 7
Ovie leading in 09 Career Crosby

POINTS 405 103 8 ------------------- 436 110 16
Ovie but closer than I thought

+/- 35 3 5 --------------------- 28 8 9
Career Crosby Ovie +/- is rising

PIM 301 76 16 ------------------ 220 72 4
Crosby less disciplined

PP 44 7 2 -------------------- 79 19 1
Ovie by a mile

SH 0 0 0 --------------------- 4 1 0
0% for Crosby? Admittedly he sits back, but 0%

GW 17 3 1 --------------------- 36 10 2
Ovie By a mile, Who do you want to give the puck to when the it matters

SHOTS 971 238 32 ------------------ 1852 528 61
#1 shot man by a mile

S% 14 13.9 12.5 ----------------- 12.3 10.6 14.8
Ovie % rising but Crosby for career and 09 stats

Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 10/22/2009 20:02:28
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1854 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2009 :  19:46:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
sorry tried to make stat chart legible but sizing was off

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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8153 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2009 :  21:34:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just a couple of points.

1) You can't fault Crosby for getting injured. This 'durability' thing is highly over rated. Crosby missed like 30 games because he was taken akwardly into the boards. This is not his fault...

2) Take a look at how many goals Crosby would have if he took as maby shots as Ovechkin.


Now, I agree. If I need a goal, I would also pick Ovechkin. But, If i want to win, in any situation, I take Crosby on any place on the ice. Crosby makes everyone around him better and wants to win more than anything. Oveckin makes people around him better only when he plays good and wants to look good more than anything.

The biggest difference between the 2 is that Ovechkin HAS to score to help his team win. Crosby doesn't have to score to help his team win. He does so many other things.
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