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PainTrain
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1393 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  14:31:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Poll Question:
Which one of these fast skaters in the old days would be the fastest in today's NHL with the new kind of skates that weigh nothing?

Choices:

Bobby Orr
Paul Coffey
Guy Lafleur
Denis Savard
Maurice Richard
Mike Gartner
Other

(Anonymous Vote)

Alex
PickupHockey All-Star



Canada
2816 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  15:07:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good question! Personally, skating is the most important part of hockey. Today's NHL, the most exciting player to watch when he gets hot is Marian Gaborik. If you look at his highlights, they are almost all breakaways that he made for himself using his speed.

(Obviously the most exciting player on a daily basis, in my opinion, is Ovechkin...)

And my all time favourite skater?

Ladies and gents, Yvan Cournoyer

Habs get number 25 this year
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2414 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  15:43:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Some how Bobby Hull never made the list, but that is who I would have voted for.

He was listed for many years in the Guinness Book of Records as the fastest skater...

[img]http://www.maldesigns.ca/top%2050%20since%201967%20banner.jpg[/img]
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Ripley
PickupHockey Pro



USA
338 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  15:49:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think Mike Gartner would be the fastest today...even in his old skates.
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willus3
Moderator



Canada
1948 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  15:53:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
All of the skaters on this list benefited from better skates than Orr used. Granted they still weren't the super light skates of today, but they were still lighter.
My vote went to Orr of course.

Let me regale you with a story.

Cournoyer was widely held to be the fastest skater in the league for years. Rightly so. The road runner was an appropriate nick name indeed.
Larry Robinson said they were playing Boston one game and Cournoyer intercepted a pass and was off on a breakaway with about a 15 foot lead on Orr. Orr caught Cournoyer and took the puck. That's when Robinson said he realized just how great a skater Orr was.

Orr was as fast as he needed to be in a given situation.

I agree with Pucknuts. You should add Bobby Hull to the list. He was something else too.


"I broke a mirror in my house. I'm supposed to get 7 years of bad luck but my lawyer thinks he can get me 5."
-- Steven Wright

Edited by - willus3 on 02/14/2008 15:56:07
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star



Canada
2816 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  16:08:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by willus3

All of the skaters on this list benefited from better skates than Orr used. Granted they still weren't the super light skates of today, but they were still lighter.
My vote went to Orr of course.

Let me regale you with a story.

Cournoyer was widely held to be the fastest skater in the league for years. Rightly so. The road runner was an appropriate nick name indeed.
Larry Robinson said they were playing Boston one game and Cournoyer intercepted a pass and was off on a breakaway with about a 15 foot lead on Orr. Orr caught Cournoyer and took the puck. That's when Robinson said he realized just how great a skater Orr was.

Orr was as fast as he needed to be in a given situation.

I agree with Pucknuts. You should add Bobby Hull to the list. He was something else too.


"I broke a mirror in my house. I'm supposed to get 7 years of bad luck but my lawyer thinks he can get me 5."
-- Steven Wright



Willus my man I know you are a moderator and I trust you and respect you, but my Montreal bias won't let me digest that one without some citation of some sort. Have a URL or file that you care to share?

Habs get number 25 this year
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8173 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  16:08:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would also put Bobby Orr on the top of the list. I think, if you were to put this list of players together in their prime physical condition and the exact same equipment in a timed lap, or two of the ice. Mr. Orr would be the winner. I would put Coffey 2nd, but that is only because I did not see the likes of Hull or Cournoyer skate. I have watched Vidoes of Orr, and from the mid 80's on. Orr is my #1, Coffey is #2.

Both were so much fun to watch.
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Guest7010
( )

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  17:05:04  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

I would also put Bobby Orr on the top of the list. I think, if you were to put this list of players together in their prime physical condition and the exact same equipment in a timed lap, or two of the ice. Mr. Orr would be the winner. I would put Coffey 2nd, but that is only because I did not see the likes of Hull or Cournoyer skate. I have watched Vidoes of Orr, and from the mid 80's on. Orr is my #1, Coffey is #2.

Both were so much fun to watch.


Never saw Orr skate in his prime. Only with one knee and he was average, so maybe two knees would be awesome. Saw Coffey skating in his prime and it is so smooth you hardly realize he was even going very fast. Like butter, is often how most people describe Coffey's skating.
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willus3
Moderator



Canada
1948 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  18:09:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex

quote:
Originally posted by willus3





Willus my man I know you are a moderator and I trust you and respect you, but my Montreal bias won't let me digest that one without some citation of some sort. Have a URL or file that you care to share?

Habs get number 25 this year



Ah, I see you are one of those if it isn't on youtube it didn't happen types.
Sorry Alex, no link. It's on Beta. Does that work for you?
Maybe if you ever bump into Robinson you can ask him.
Lemaire has said about Bobby "there weren't too many guys i couldn't catch when I wanted to. That guy was a guy I coudn't catch."
Lemaire remains to this day one of the fastest guys I've ever seen.

"I broke a mirror in my house. I'm supposed to get 7 years of bad luck but my lawyer thinks he can get me 5."
-- Steven Wright
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star



Canada
2816 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  18:24:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Actually Willus, I am one of those ''I don't believe anything against the Habs until I see it. Once I see it I can start making excuses.'' type of guys

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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1530 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  18:32:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No offense Alex, but I don't think that the younger people on the boards like yourself or myself have any good insight to add, presumably because we are to young to have experienced those players. I suggest you try to learn from these hockey history threads like I am, not post some mindless garbage you know nothing about.
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Alex
PickupHockey All-Star



Canada
2816 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  18:48:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OK, but Yvan is known and respected as arguable the fastest skater in the NHL. It's not like I came out here and said ''I think Hal Gill is the fastest skater ever because I saw him at the Leaf game I went to and he skates faster than me.''

I also saw some footage of Yvan that my dad showed me. He was a great skater and was nicknamed accordingly. I may have not seen the other skaters in question, but as I am a Habs fan... who cares?

Don't argue, the Montreal logic always prevails.

Habs get number 25 this year
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PainTrain
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1393 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  19:07:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The reason I didn't add Bobby Hull is....I'm 13 and I don't know. The ones I listed are the ones that I know were fast. And I want to see what the old guys of the forums think of it. To learn more about hockey's history.
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willus3
Moderator



Canada
1948 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  19:26:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PainTrain

The reason I didn't add Bobby Hull is....I'm 13 and I don't know. The ones I listed are the ones that I know were fast. And I want to see what the old guys of the forums think of it. To learn more about hockey's history.



Paintrain I have to say I really like your attitude. To seek out knowledge of the game that came before you is admirable.

Bobby Hull was very fast. I believe he was clocked at 28 mph and it was actually a record.
He coasted faster than some guys could skate. He'd cruise around at a higher speed than most guys did. He'd do those great end to end rushes too. When people put together a list of their top skaters Hull is always there.

"I broke a mirror in my house. I'm supposed to get 7 years of bad luck but my lawyer thinks he can get me 5."
-- Steven Wright
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro



Japan
891 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  19:54:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think that in his prime, before the knee problems really took over, Orr was the fastest in terms of accellerating from hardly moving to full stride. And that may be just as if not more important than having the top speed at full flight (which I am thinking, if it wasn't Orr, might have been Gartner - didn't see enough of Hull to say). Cournoyer was probably pretty close to Gartner, but as they say in certain parts of Toronto and Beantown, "when presented with a choice between a Hab and anyone else in the universe, always go against the Hab" .

The other guy of course is Coffey, who should definitely be high up there on this list, but I once read that even John Muckler gives Bobby Orr the edge (not sure if he was referring to full flight or not). As I write this though, I am remembering Coffey at full flight and wondering if perhaps he shouldn't get this honor. In any case, there was something VERY cool about Coffey's skating. If he wasn't actually the fastest it was like the smoothness of his skating gave the illusion of him being the fastest.

A lesser known guy who was extremely fast was Bob Bourne of the Islanders. Bourne was not a superstar but in my high school days (late '70s) I remember always thinking of him as "that really fast guy" on the Isles. He was yet another very useful cog in the Isle machine.

Edit - just found this Bourne tribute (was pleasantly surprised to find it - the first part is kind of boring, but eventually it does give at least a glimpse of the speed I am talking about)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ACyLNUTMU6Y&feature=related

Edited by - andyhack on 02/14/2008 20:30:35
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willus3
Moderator



Canada
1948 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  20:07:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Top speed, as "cool" as it may sound is irrelevant in a game. Acceleration is the key.
0 - 60 as opposed to 1/4 mile. In a hockey game you need the 0 - 60.

"I broke a mirror in my house. I'm supposed to get 7 years of bad luck but my lawyer thinks he can get me 5."
-- Steven Wright
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Antroman
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
537 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  20:30:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
One of my favourite all time plays........Yvon Cournoyer was just booting it out of his own end and one of the toilet seat defensemen hit him with a tape to taper just before he hit the center line. Booby Orr at the time was partnered with a rookie defenseman by the name of Al Sims. Well, as soon a Yvon recieved that pass in full flight young Sims hit him with a beautiful hip check and Cournoyer did a complete somersault in the air and crashed down to the ice with a dislocated hip which finished him for the balance of that season. I don't know if he was ever as fast after that but I bet he kept his head up from that point on when young Sims was on the ice. It was one of the cleanest and best hits I have ever seen and I remember it like it was yesterday because when a Hab bites the dust it was always like Christmas around our house.
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Guest7010
( )

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  20:50:36  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by willus3

Top speed, as "cool" as it may sound is irrelevant in a game. Acceleration is the key.
0 - 60 as opposed to 1/4 mile. In a hockey game you need the 0 - 60.

"I broke a mirror in my house. I'm supposed to get 7 years of bad luck but my lawyer thinks he can get me 5."
-- Steven Wright

I'm assuming this is in reference to Coffey from Andy's post since anyone who could possibly damage the reputation of Orr must be put down.

In any case, Coffey's acceleration was otherworldly as well as top speed. Because it appears he is hardly putting any effort, he could not possibly be going very fast, but then everyone else seems to stand still. Not wanting to insult your "Golden Cow", Willus, so I will say this: Coffey is the smoothest, fastest accelerating and fastest top speed player ever to play the game of hockey.
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willus3
Moderator



Canada
1948 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  21:24:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest7010

quote:
Originally posted by willus3

Top speed, as "cool" as it may sound is irrelevant in a game. Acceleration is the key.
0 - 60 as opposed to 1/4 mile. In a hockey game you need the 0 - 60.

"I broke a mirror in my house. I'm supposed to get 7 years of bad luck but my lawyer thinks he can get me 5."
-- Steven Wright

I'm assuming this is in reference to Coffey from Andy's post since anyone who could possibly damage the reputation of Orr must be put down.

In any case, Coffey's acceleration was otherworldly as well as top speed. Because it appears he is hardly putting any effort, he could not possibly be going very fast, but then everyone else seems to stand still. Not wanting to insult your "Golden Cow", Willus, so I will say this: Coffey is the smoothest, fastest accelerating and fastest top speed player ever to play the game of hockey.


Well I'm sure you know what assuming does...

It had nothing to do with anything other than the fact that top speed is irrelevant in a game situation. Andy mentioned full flight which is what inspired my comment. In actual fact I was thinking about Hull not Coffey when I posted that. It's very rare that a player can ever get to top speed in a game.

I wouldn't think anyone was crazy to pick Coffey. He was a brilliant skater. I'd say he and Fedorov are about the smoothest skaters I've seen.



"I broke a mirror in my house. I'm supposed to get 7 years of bad luck but my lawyer thinks he can get me 5."
-- Steven Wright
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willus3
Moderator



Canada
1948 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  21:38:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A couple others guys who were great.
Gilbert Perreault was beautiful to watch.
Gene Carr was a tremendous skater until he had a car accident or something. Don't remember exactly what happened but wasn't the same after.
Jim Dorey was one of those effortless types of skaters.
Gaston Gingras was excellent too.
All of these guys were very fast.

"I broke a mirror in my house. I'm supposed to get 7 years of bad luck but my lawyer thinks he can get me 5."
-- Steven Wright

Edited by - willus3 on 02/14/2008 21:40:07
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
662 Posts

Posted - 12/30/2008 :  15:17:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mike Gartner
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Guest6025
( )

Posted - 05/14/2009 :  18:29:59  Reply with Quote
Of the original 6 team era, certainly hull and orr were great skaters, when the game was played in a style that encouraged rushes up ice. During the time of hull's prime, he had only 1 contemporary with similar skating skills and that was Dave Keone of the maple leaf's. Bobby Orr was (is) younger, but only coffee rivaled his skating from the defense....ever.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4575 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2009 :  05:26:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Of the guys I personally watched - Mike Gartner by a hair over Coffey, depending on what they had for breakfast. I will certainly concede that the Bobbies (Hull and Orr) may have been right up there.

Coffey was real smooth though, and he'd sneak up on you because of it. Saw so many defencemen misjudge how fast he was coming in, then have to awkwardly turn around and start chasing the guy as he blew by. Gartner though, those legs were pumping the whole time, the guy was 100% determination and effort, and you knew you had to cheat back a bit with him.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1872 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2009 :  16:22:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I remember 2-3 years ago when Coffey did his 1st tour in the old timers hockey league. Watching him against some of the other greatest from the past highlighted just how good this guy was. Lanny Mcdonald who looked like the fastest "feet" moving player on the ice was barely catching up to Coffey skating backwards on offensive play's, literally. He was just so fast and smooth he had to slow down to make sure he didn't overskate the plays.

I never seen the Golden Jet play but I bet he was just as impressive. Orr by every Oldtimer who seen him play in his prime say's no-one compared to him. His final few seasons I watched, but I bet it didn't compare to what he once was.

I remember the 1st few years with Bure, Federov and Mogilny in the league. People said these skater had some of the best break away speed in the league. Just wondering with do you guys think. Did these guy compare.
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
899 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2009 :  17:03:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've had the pleasure of watching in person, Pavel Bure in his prime and Paul Kariya when he was Duck, and I was blown away at the 2 stride speed these two stars were able to generate. Not sure how they stack up against the others listed, but live, it was unbelievably impressive how quick they got to full speed.

Another player who impressed me live, regarding Willus' 0-60 reference was Trevor Linden when he was younger, he was able to get to top flight very quickly for a big player.
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