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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
899 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2009 :  22:44:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Now, I'm a sports fan, hockey happens to be my favorite by far, but I follow most sports. The other day when the Manny Ramirez steroid fiasco came on, it got me thinking...are there stars in the NHL that are taking enhancing drugs on the sly...and really...after watching how much tax money is being spent on inquiries and how much the media is running with it all...should we really care??

I thought this might be an interesting forum topic as to how it affects hockey players and fans like us.

Are we not expecting our professional atheletes to be super humans? Are they not being paid according to those expectations?
If juicing up means the difference between riding a bus for 45k a year instead of playing in the show for much more money, is that really wrong?
Have we got this all screwed up by allowing our politicians to involve themselves in sports drug scandals, instead of using their influence to concern themselves with the drugs being sold in schoolyards?

I understand the whole, as role models they should be accountable ideaology, and support it, but in this particular part of a professional athletes cycle to maintain their peak physical levels, do we need to focus as much as we do on this part of their persons?

Are they cheaters?

Let er' rip...

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8173 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2009 :  22:50:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Simply put, yes they are cheaters. Any time a person does something unannouced to their competition for the intention of getting an advantage, it's cheating. Performing enhancing drugs are simply another method of acheiving this.

As I hear on a local radio show the other day, anyone who thinks that NHL players are not involved in performance enhancing substances, you need to call a proctologist as your head is stuck up your a$$. I am not saying steriods per se, but c'mon. The game has evolved into a sport of speed, endurance and power. Is this not exactly what many perfomance enhancing drugs do??

I would just like to watch a sport when physical gifts are just that and people succeed based on hard work, dedication, and desire without questioning if there is an artificial influence involved. Alas, I am dreaming as those days are gone and will never be back. As long as there are ways for someone to improve their natural abilities, people will.

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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
899 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2009 :  23:02:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans...I agree, they are cheaters.

But....in the world of professional athletics, where the edge is always what is needed to stay and compete...are they wrong? And should we be as outraged as the media seems to want us to be?
If it was Ovechkin on the stuff, would he be any less revered?
If it was Gretzky on the....oh forget that, at 5'10 170 lbs? are you kidding me..
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8173 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2009 :  23:09:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Um, yes. We should get pissed at cheaters. If Ovechkin was on the juice, I would think significantly less of him immediately. It's a stigma, but a well deserved stigma. It's a trust thing. As soon as someone is proven to be a cheater, they will always be a cheater. Or at the very least, have cheated.

As I said, I respect the guys who had to work for what they have(had). And although you were joking, if it was admitted that Gretzky cheated, I would think less of him immediately and I would be forced to go to the dark side. I would have to say that Gretzky was the greatest cheat to ever play the game, but Orr was the greatest player to have played the game.

Look at Pete Rose. Charlie Hustle. Possibly the best baseball player who ever lived. And he didn't do anything to get an edge. He gambled on the sport he played/coached in.

Once a cheater, always a cheater.
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2257 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2009 :  09:35:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
this is not my personal opinion but something a friend said to me that really made me think,,, "Let em juice it up as much as they want, i pay good money to watch baseball and i pay to see the best show possible, more homeruns more stolen bases more perfect games thats what i pay to see and i don;t care how they produce it as long as they produce more of it."

Pasty
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Guest6196
( )

Posted - 05/11/2009 :  10:15:03  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7

this is not my personal opinion but something a friend said to me that really made me think,,, "Let em juice it up as much as they want, i pay good money to watch baseball and i pay to see the best show possible, more homeruns more stolen bases more perfect games thats what i pay to see and i don;t care how they produce it as long as they produce more of it."

Pasty



I would have to say your friend makes a good point.

I have heard, one day there will be 2 leagues within all sports, one will be the steroid league and one will be clean. Science has come so far that is Manny Ramirez wanted a bionic eye to see the ball better, science is not that far away, so doctors can take it much further than just steroids. That being said I would watch the steroid league because the players will be faster and stronger. I am sure the players in the steriod league will still play with heart, they will just have a substance in there body (or one day a body part that has been created by a doctor)
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4575 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2009 :  15:01:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, we once discussed this at length on this site, and a few of us gave our opinions on drug-taking athletes and how prevalent it was . . . myself, having worked in two separate industries that occasionally gave me a glimpse of the stars, I have to say most of them are on some kind of juice. Plenty of steroids, tons of "upper" type drugs, plenty of coke. I personally know a guy who was on a national junior team from Europe, and the team doctor/trainer was giving out "supplements" before a big tournament game, unbelievable stuff.

As to public perceptions . . . it's complicated. How can I be upset with a guy for taking the stuff when he's entering a league where almost everyone gets an 'edge' of some sort to compete at that high level? Would I do the same thing? It's hard to sit here and say no, I wouldn't, as I haven't spent the thousands of hours of hard work, practice and dedication it takes to get there at a time and age when you are very green to the world. I don't wish those life-changing decisions on any young man.

That being said, yeah - my opinion of his skills is diminished, and my opinion of his moral standing is diminished. If I find out that a guy was truly clean in an era of drug-takers, obviously my opinion of him would soar . . . but it doesn't really work like that, does it? Everyone is suspect, and only the ones who get CAUGHT are looked down on.

Ben Johnson is a prime example . . . he got caught, and became a disgrace. To me, he'll always be the fastest man ever, and for the longest his record time stood (although not accepted, of course). Meanwhile, Carl Lewis stood as this paragon of greatness and morality . . . but I have the strongest suspicion that he just never got caught - the american drug program was just too good at the time. In baseball, it's the same thing . . . guys who got caught are publicly shamed, and very often I think the guys who haven't gotten caught are the loudest most righteous ones.

Too much money creates this . . . and we pay our athletes WAY too much money. The only way to stop it is to get out of corporatism in sports, and go back to amateur athletes competing for the love of the game.

Remember back in the day when the Finnish hockey team was made up of a bunch of fellow working stiffs who also played on the side? THAT'S love and dedication to sport I can respect . . .

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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