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Guest8168
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Posted - 05/05/2009 :  16:23:23  Reply with Quote
Crosby better then Ovechkin?!? Come on buddy, I would even go as far to say that Malkin is better then Crosby. Ovechkin is better then both those guys check your stats.
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Guest2200
( )

Posted - 05/05/2009 :  17:17:26  Reply with Quote
ovechkin has better stats huh?? thats funny.. who had the most points this yr? Malkin.12.1 shooting pct. Ovechkin 10.6 pct. Even strength goals.. malkin also had the most takeaways. most even strength points.. and your gonna sit here and tell me ovechkin is better.. if your going to ask for some stats.. here they are.. this is the part where you insert your foot in your mouth
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
546 Posts

Posted - 06/01/2009 :  11:51:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And Malkin is better then both...

Topic, over!

"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford
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Guest9189
( )

Posted - 10/23/2009 :  19:28:39  Reply with Quote
HAHA. most of you guys a pathetic.. calling crosby a cry-baby.. ovechkin crys to the ref just as much, and both take dives. its a part of hockey.

Most of "Crosby Haters" dont like him cause he's the face of the NHL. he was getting promoted before he was even there, thus in short are plain jelous of him.

Dont get me wrong Ovie is a decent player, lazer of a shot with accuracy.. but lacks in being a team player. It doesnt matter if you have no one on your team to pass to.. giving the puck up is part of the game.

Sid is a better all round player.. Ovie can carry a team better.
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Guest4707
( )

Posted - 10/23/2009 :  21:25:42  Reply with Quote
Ovechkin diving? Really? Show me one instance of him ever doing this and I will eat my foot. You can call Ovechkin alot of things but a diver isn't one of them, sorry. And no, its not supposed to be 'part' of the game, thats why hockey isn't soccer.

Whether or not one or both dives is fairly irrelevant anyways, neither of these players is heads and shoulders above the others, they are just different in the aspects of the game they excel at.

Malkin is probably the most balanced player in the league, Crosby is one of the best playmakers and competitors (Thornton is up there as well) and Ovechkin is the best pure sniper and also has the most energy in a given game. if you put a gun to my head if I was an NHL gm and could pick any player then I'd probably go with Ovechkin.

Why? 1) He doesn't need anyone around to him to excel
2) He is a human highlight reel- and will put bums in the seats to watch him
3) He actually has a personality, and is hilarious. To contrast, Crosby sounds off monotone cliche's and never says anything with a trace of controversy, and Malkin looks borderline retarded and can barely speak english. Hard to relate to either one of them (off the ice).

Really, though, as a GM id be happy to build a team around any one of these three.
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redneck76ca
Rookie



186 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2009 :  21:51:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4707

Ovechkin diving? Really? Show me one instance of him ever doing this and I will eat my foot. You can call Ovechkin alot of things but a diver isn't one of them, sorry. And no, its not supposed to be 'part' of the game, thats why hockey isn't soccer.

Whether or not one or both dives is fairly irrelevant anyways, neither of these players is heads and shoulders above the others, they are just different in the aspects of the game they excel at.

Malkin is probably the most balanced player in the league, Crosby is one of the best playmakers and competitors (Thornton is up there as well) and Ovechkin is the best pure sniper and also has the most energy in a given game. if you put a gun to my head if I was an NHL gm and could pick any player then I'd probably go with Ovechkin.

Why? 1) He doesn't need anyone around to him to excel
2) He is a human highlight reel- and will put bums in the seats to watch him
3) He actually has a personality, and is hilarious. To contrast, Crosby sounds off monotone cliche's and never says anything with a trace of controversy, and Malkin looks borderline retarded and can barely speak english. Hard to relate to either one of them (off the ice).

Really, though, as a GM id be happy to build a team around any one of these three.


I would take Crosby over Ovechkin if I were building a franchise. What you say about Ovechkin is true. He doesn't need anyone around him to excel (but lets not forget that he has Semin and Backstrom to play with him) but Crosby makes those around him better. Crosby is clearly as marketable as Ovechkin although it is quite evident that Crosby is not nearly as flashy.
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Guest6562
( )

Posted - 10/23/2009 :  22:04:10  Reply with Quote
Does anyone remember the world jrs. when Mr Ovechkin cried like a little baby and left the game cause things were not going his way? Crosby is a better hockey player, Ovechkin is a better goal scorer. Last time I checked you needed more than just the ability to score goals to be considerd the best hockey player.
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Guest4101
( )

Posted - 10/24/2009 :  00:59:51  Reply with Quote
I think that Crosby casts a very strong positive influence on his teammates. He does this by being a supportive leader that exudes genuine concern for everyone on his team while also walking the walk in terms of improving his own game. In contrast, Ovechkin is a happy go lucky, loves the game to death ubertalent who contributes to a fun loving attitude in the locker room. This difference may make Crosby a better leader, but does that relate directly to the question of who is a better hockey player? Ovechkin's physical skills are unparalleled, he makes scoring look effortless at times. I thought he had topped out last year, but he's getting even better this year. Crosby probably can't get much more out his 5' 11" average build body, and he had already been injured a few times in his young career. I'm going to take a guess that 10 years from now, Ovechkin will be sizably ahead of Crosby in career points. People will say that Ovechkin was the more dominant player, but Crosby will probably have more Stanley Cup rings. So, I guess it depends on what you consider "better" to mean.
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Guest9655
( )

Posted - 10/24/2009 :  03:27:41  Reply with Quote
Stanley cups might be the worst metric to base a player's career success on. Hockey, more than any other of the major North American sports is based around a team. Crosby deserves as much credit for winning the cup as Malkin and Fleury (less than Malkin, according to the Conn Smythe voters). But its evident he is a piece to the puzzle, not the whole thing.

Gretzky only won his cups when he had Messier, Coffey and Kurri complimenting him. Lemieux's Pittsburgh teams missed the playoffs his first 6 years he was in the league (during his prime). Only when Jagr and company joined him did they get over the hump. And these are undoubtedly two of the best players ever, so take the cup argument and shove it. Ovechkin doesnt have a cup because his team isnt as strong or deep as pitt.

Oh, and to those idiots who say 'Ovechkin can only score nothing else'. Look at his stats, the guy has never gotten less than 46 assists in a season in the NHL. He finished 10th overall in the entire league last year, 16 back of Crosby who finished #2. Considering he got 26 more goals, I'd say thats a fair tradeoff.
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Guest9189
( )

Posted - 10/24/2009 :  10:26:23  Reply with Quote
Ovechkin diving? Really? Show me one instance of him ever doing this and I will eat my foot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htQ08UDeX4A

diving wasnt the right word. every hockey player has tried to sell a call.. some people are masters at it and get praised for it. i just dont see why crosby gets picked on for it?

NOW EAT YOUR FOOT
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Guest1758
( )

Posted - 10/24/2009 :  16:17:35  Reply with Quote
Crosby CAN carry a team, OV can't, every time he has an off night, they lose. Crosby does more than score. You can't just say OV is better because he gets more points, there is more to it than that you idiots
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
662 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2009 :  17:07:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Crosby never won the cup for Pittsburgh, I wouldn't even say he lead them to the Stanley Cup.... Malkin is Pittsburgh's true leader in heart, skill, offense, defense, Points, and hockey smarts... I'd take Malkin over Crosby any day

1. Ovechkin
2. Malkin
3. Iginla
4. Thornton
5. Mike Richards
6. Jeff Carter
7. Gaborik (if healthy)
8. Getzlaf
9. Crosby (maybe)

...And the LEAFS Win the CUP

Edited by - hanley6 on 10/24/2009 17:08:02
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1315 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2009 :  23:53:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hanley6

Crosby never won the cup for Pittsburgh, I wouldn't even say he lead them to the Stanley Cup.... Malkin is Pittsburgh's true leader in heart, skill, offense, defense, Points, and hockey smarts... I'd take Malkin over Crosby any day

1. Ovechkin
2. Malkin
3. Iginla
4. Thornton
5. Mike Richards
6. Jeff Carter
7. Gaborik (if healthy)
8. Getzlaf
9. Crosby (maybe)

...And the LEAFS Win the CUP



What are you rankings for?

Skill or Leadership?

Irvine
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8176 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2009 :  09:01:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What are ranking??? Offensive skills or hockey skills?? I might agree with the ranks if it was offensive alone. However, overall hockey skills I would say the likes of Datsuyk, Marleau, Doan, ecavalier would take exception to not being on the list and seeing Jeff Carter's name there.

Also, are we talking about offensive stats or offensive skill??? There is another big difference.

Oh, and by the way, offensively speaking, Crosby is ahead of all the players on this list except for Malkin and Ovechkin. Speaking overall, he also belongs in the top 3.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2009 :  15:33:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
hanley...please do explain what your list is all about? If you were a GM drafting a team today and all those guys were available, is that the way you'd pick'em? Please tell us it means something else. You must really hate Sid to have him ranked that low....
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Guest4097
( )

Posted - 10/26/2009 :  17:59:56  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thrasher

quote:
Originally posted by Guest9847

Ovechkin has a good team behind him but not nearly as good as Crosby does. So Ovechkin has to work harder to make his team play better, while Crosby has guys that can back him up.

Top 4 players on Washington
1. Ovechkin
2. Green
3. Backstom
4. Semin
(Theodore isn't good enough to be considered top 4 on WAS)

Top 4 platers on Pittsburgh
1. Crosby
2. Malkin
3. Fleury
4. Gonchar

Compare these 2 sets of 4 guys, who do you think has a better overal team.



Right, last time i checked a team consisted of only four players. This is one of the dumbest comments i have ever seen. All of these arguments are so dumb. I really don't understand why everyone hates Crosby so much, really. Hes one of the best things to happen to hockey in years. Him and ovie both brought more fans to the NHL and made the game far more exciting.

This stupid post ahead, I'm not sure what you were trying to prove. Are you saying Crosby gets points because of these four players and thats it? He doesn't play with Malkin, except on PP, last time i checked Fleury wasn't really a scoring machine, and Gonchar just got back from being injured the entire season. Then looking at the Capitals (i guess only 4 players play for them?), Backstrom and Semin both having career years, Green who is one of the best (if not the best) offensive defensemen this season. Who has the better four players? Smart.

I wish all of you would stop posting this crap on this site, and talk about something new. Crosby and Ovechkin are both amazing, probably the two most exciting players in the game. Stop saying that Crosby is a whiner who gives out cheap shots and dives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh6t7McxDQc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxMJrQhGoSg

Seriously, Ovechkin does it too. Get off your knees and stop praying to the god that is Ovechkin, they are both amazing.


I Promise I didn't give her the STD, I'm not a sharing person.

Excellent , Exactly what I was thinking
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
662 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2009 :  19:56:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
my list is overall skill in the NHL

...And the LEAFS Win the CUP
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8176 Posts

Posted - 10/26/2009 :  20:32:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Overall skill??? You have to be kidding. Seriously, 1/2 the players on your list are perenially in the top 10 in the league in giveaway. Only a few of them are anywhere near the top of +/- and most of them don't even know what their end of the ice looks like!

Where's Datsuyk, Heatley, Lecavalier, St. Louis, Marleau???

I mean really??

As I said before, offensively only I would agree with about 1/2 your list. Overall skill, seriously off.
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phlyguy90
Rookie



USA
100 Posts

Posted - 12/07/2009 :  12:42:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
listen i love richards and carter but neither one of them is a top ten player in the league. richards is much closer than carter because of his overall game but still i would rank him in the top 15.
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Guest4190
( )

Posted - 02/05/2010 :  23:06:34  Reply with Quote
um who has a world juniors gold medal and a stanley cup crosby does not ocechkin and at the end of the day all people remember are the titles people won crosby is the better player by far
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2010 :  23:55:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4190

um who has a world juniors gold medal and a stanley cup crosby does not ocechkin and at the end of the day all people remember are the titles people won crosby is the better player by far



So does this make a guy like Kris Letang better than Ovechkin too? Cuz he won a World Junior Gold as well as the Stanley Cup?
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
914 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  09:45:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Very entertaining 1st period today between the Caps & Pens. All of the stars are flying, Crosby & Ovechking both look great. The Pens are ahead 2-0 after 1 with Crosby scoring goals 38 & 39.

Earlier on the Caps first powerplay, when i saw Ovechkin passing the puck in front of the net to a streaking Mike Knuble instead of shooting himself (he was in a high percentage shooting area)...no way Ovechkin would of passed that puck a year or two ago. Mike Knuble had 2 similar chances within a minute, and deflected it through the crease & wide both times.

Edited by - ryan93 on 02/07/2010 09:50:15
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andarchy
Top Prospect



17 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  12:07:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow, this topic has been going strong for about 2 years now. A couple of guys wrote 'look at this topic in 10 years from now'. They might still be able to post on this same forum, LOL! All I can say is... look at Crosby's goal total so far this year. Looks to me like he can score goals just as well as Ovie. And the funny thing is that it comes after all the talk about Sid not being able to score as many goals as other NHL'ers. Almost as though he could have done it all along, but focused more on his teammates in the past until he got a cup under his belt. And in my eyes he's just plain classier. Who cares if he seems like a crybaby, every player in the league whines about something. You'd be cryin' too if guys started taking cheap shots at you from the first time you stepped on the ice in your career, just because you were coming in with all the hype of being a phenom. I've watched a lot of Pens games and the truth is that Crosby takes a lot of crap and late, pointless hits during a game. Sure I've seen Crosby slash a guy after the play but it usually comes after receiving about 5 other dirty shots from that player. But who cares anyway, this has nothing to do with hockey skills. It's more or less just a reason to like someone or not. That being said, he's tops on my list!
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Hugh G. Rection
Rookie



165 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  12:51:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Pretty remarkable regular-season game today between Pitt/Was. Highlights the fact (for me) that although Crosby is very, very good, Ovechkin is better. Completely ludicrous how easily he makes goal scoring look. Let's not overlook his physical game as well, he lays some pretty crushing hits all the time.

Let's just pray as hockey fans this is the Eastern Conference final this year, and that Was can find a goalie can string together four decent games.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8176 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  13:27:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hugh G. Rection

Pretty remarkable regular-season game today between Pitt/Was. Highlights the fact (for me) that although Crosby is very, very good, Ovechkin is better. Completely ludicrous how easily he makes goal scoring look. Let's not overlook his physical game as well, he lays some pretty crushing hits all the time.

Let's just pray as hockey fans this is the Eastern Conference final this year, and that Was can find a goalie can string together four decent games.




Scoring goals is only one part of the game. Crosby outshines Ovechkin in nearly ever other capacity with the expection of goal scoring and hitting and I also believe that Crosby is as good if not better based on his ability to score massive amount of goals without taking 5 + shots a game.

If those are your criteria, I would not disagree because I agree that Ovechkin is a complete beast. I have said in the past that I think Ovechkin is more of a selfish player and would rather shoot to score rather than pass and win, but that's just me. He is still a better hockey player than I have given him credit for and every time I watch him I am captivated.

In the end, it's pretty hard to argue with either opinion. Both are the most dynamic players of this generation and it's still early in both of their careers.
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Hugh G. Rection
Rookie



165 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  14:03:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can't agree more with your assessment that they are the two best. Can't disagree more with your claim that Crosby is better in every part of the game other than Goals/Hits. This year #8 actually has more assists than the 'playmaker' Crosby, in fact.

If you are saying Ovechkin is defensively worse than Crosby, why is he the tops in the entire league in plus/minus? The only real superiority seems to be faceoff %, and since Ovechkin plays the wing. Please do not revive the terrible argument from the other thread where you think that shooting % matters, because it doesn't. What matters is outscoring the team you are playing on a given day. Even when Ovechkin doesn't score from his shots, you get OT winners like Knuble's today that come directly as a result.
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polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro



525 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  14:43:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Man, I really hate these comparisons of who is a better player when they are two completely different types of players and personalities. Raw statistics will never measure influence on a team that come from various intangibles like effort, perseverance, sportsmanship, unselfishness, respect, etc.

Comparing Crosby and Ovechkin on those levels leads to conflict of opinion, and there is no way to quantify whose opinion is correct.

Another factor is motive. When we argue that Ovechkin is more selfish, using as proof his amount of shots, we really cannot say why Ovechkin takes more shots, or why Crosby passes more; we cannot read there minds.

I think that this is just a way to pass time for those of us with nothing better to do. I wish that we could appreciate both players, and when arguing who is better, also make the point that our comments are not ABSOLUTE, that they are our opinions, and by no means an incorrigible truth.
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Hugh G. Rection
Rookie



165 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  14:54:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well put. Although arguing who is better is fairly fun, as people on both sides have very strong opinions on the subject. Blanket statements people like to use such as 'crosby is a better team player', or less selfish, etc. I take issue with, because people like to present these as facts, when in fact they are just statements of opinion.
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nux-suk
Top Prospect



41 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  15:15:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
this is crazy!! by miles Ovechkin. you cant compare these two. please stop....you insult all knowledgeable hockey fans.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8176 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  15:18:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hugh G. Rection

Can't agree more with your assessment that they are the two best. Can't disagree more with your claim that Crosby is better in every part of the game other than Goals/Hits. This year #8 actually has more assists than the 'playmaker' Crosby, in fact.

If you are saying Ovechkin is defensively worse than Crosby, why is he the tops in the entire league in plus/minus? The only real superiority seems to be faceoff %, and since Ovechkin plays the wing. Please do not revive the terrible argument from the other thread where you think that shooting % matters, because it doesn't. What matters is outscoring the team you are playing on a given day. Even when Ovechkin doesn't score from his shots, you get OT winners like Knuble's today that come directly as a result.



I can easily argue that +/- means next to nothing about defensive ability and I proved this with Mike Green already. The fact that Ovechkin is on the most offensively talented team in the league is the reason for the top +/-.

Here's some details.

Ovechkin has been on the ice for 115 goals for. Only Mike Green has been on the ice for more. When you take out the goal on PP(44) Ovechkin has been on the ice for 71 even strength goals. On the defensive side of the puck, Ovechkin has been on for just 31 goals against and 1 of those was a PPG, so 30 even strength goals against.

Simple math shows the +41 rates.

Furthermore, Ovechkin rarely if every plays against the other teams best offensive line. Most often, he is playing against the other teams most defensive line.

So in the end. +/- means nothing about defense. It has as much to do with offense as defense.

In the end, I don't think either player is going to be nominated for the Selke any time soon. However, I personally think Crosby is a more responsible defensive player.

And just because you disagree with the shooting % arguement does not mean it is not valid. If the shots were slightly higher for Ovechkin it would be less valid. But when he is taking literally 150+ more shots a season compared to the next highest guy, it does inflate the scoring. And I could care less if you agree or not.
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Hugh G. Rection
Rookie



165 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  22:02:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Actually the term is "couldn't care less", because if you could care less, that means you care at least a little bit. Nit-pickish I know but I am put on tilt by people saying they could care less.

+/- is a little arbitrary, but not for the reasons you mentioned. And thanks for doing simple math for me, but I knew how plus/minus was calculated already. Generally its a good stat for seeing the kind of impact a player has on the game. If you want another statistical measure go by the TSN player rankings (guess who's #1 there as well?). I'm glad you re-affirmed your opinion that Crosby is better defensively, but again, I don't like blanket statements presented as facts which are actually opinions.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8176 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2010 :  23:17:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The TSN figure is again heavily weighted towards offensive stats. The calculation includes:

Goals per game, Assists per game, Plus-Minus, Power Play Goals, Shorthanded Goals, Game Winning Goals, Shots on Goal, Blocked Shots, Hits, Giveaways, Takeaways and Faceoffs.

How many of those are defensive?? Many more offensive to say the least. Furthermore, straight from Scott Cullen(the same guy who put Edmonton ahead of Calgary in the preseason rankings), who is TSN.ca's fantasy guru,

Naturally, goals are most important (since there is a 100% correlation between scoring more goals and winning the game) and the scale decreases so that the more peripheral stats are virtually tie-breakers. That is, if you have a pair of 30-goal scorers, you would prefer the one that hits more frequently to the one that doesn't. It wouldn't likely provide a decisive advantage but, all other things being equal, would indicate a preference for one player over another.


Perfect example is that if you did a poll of GM's today and asked them who the best players in the NHL today was, I would not argue that many(or even most) would say Ovechkin. But, how many would put Ryan Miller, Mike Green, Henrik Sedin, and Zach Parise ahead of Crosby??

Few if any.

How many would say that Mike Green is the 2nd best player in the NHL today??

Again, few if any.

And my could care less comment was based on the shooting % comment, not on the "facts stated as blanket opinion stated as fact" which I believe I qualitied with the "personally" statement. However, if you missed that, I can understand. I never said anything "factual' about Crosby at all.

I have yet to see a post that actually refutes my comments about Ovechkin's enflated goal scoring based on grossly outshooting everyone else in the NHL. (just think that if Bossy took that many shots he would have had well over 100 goals in a season!!)

Finally, +/- is only a useful stat when comparing players on the same team and/or if you see a player with a significant +/- without being a high scoring player. For example, I have always had a huge respect for players who have a higher +/- than their total point. Larry Robinson in 76/77 who was +120(2nd highest all time) and had just 85 points or Mark Howe who was +85 in 85/86 and had 82 points. That's impressive.

A guy who has 70+ points and is +41 tells me he scores a ton, not that he is a defensive jugernaut.



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Hugh G. Rection
Rookie



165 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2010 :  09:20:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
SIgh, ok here we go.

Your point seems to be that there is a direct correlation between shooting %, shots taken and total goals scored. "If Mike Bossy shot as much he'd have 100 goals". No. That's not how it works, scoring isn't a mathematical formula, and shooting % changes depending on shots taken. Likely Bossy would have more goals if he shot that much, but it is likely his % would have nosedived as a result. If Hockey was math and shooting % was held constant, then yes, you could make those kind of assumptions. Otherwise, it's a logical fallacy. I don't know how I can explain that any clearer, but rid your mind of the whole 'if everyone shot as much as ovechkin they'd score as much", because they would if they could.

Look at the Toronto Maple Leafs for examples of why high shot totals do not necessarily translate to more goals. Cherry and co. make a big deal about the leafs constantly outshooting their opponents and still losing, If you watch those games, though, the majority of Toronto's shots are from the outside, without traffic in front, and have little to no chance of going in. It is meaningless if you outshoot your opponents with these kind of shots.

Also I was not arguing that the player rankings are a perfect measure, only using them as an example of another way a statistical argument showing Ovechkin's superiority was made clear.
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Guest7092
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Posted - 02/08/2010 :  09:48:16  Reply with Quote
I would say it's a fair tie....lol.....gotta be diplomatic...cause they are both mvp's.....crosby has the cup already.....ovie is a scoring machine and the captain too now.....they both score.....crosby gets more assists and ovie scores more cause he has to.....both play with other world class players....crosby has malkin....ovie has backstrom and semin.....it's easy to lean either way....I'm not a big hockey guy.....I would lean towards crosby.....he may be a baby....he may cry....but he plays hard just like ovie.....I just think he is more of a leader....vocally and leading by example.....there's my 2 cents
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Beans15
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Canada
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Posted - 02/08/2010 :  10:02:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hugh, I am not disagreeing that hockey is not math and it's not straight numbers. However, when a player has a 20%+ shooting percentage for 9 straight season and keeps that 20%+ stat over 2500 shots, it's nearly if not virtually impossible to argue that he has a shooting percentage of 20%!! It's not like it's a once in a blue moon thing here.9 consecutive seasons and 750+ games.

All the greatest goal scorers could maintain a high shooting percentage for a long perioid of time. It's not fluke. It's not a guess. Ironically, those players keep that shooting %(or close to it) regardless of the number of shots they take.

But the numbers don't work that way, right??


Now, there is a huge point that makes my point not valid. That is that a brilliant goal scorer like Bossy or Grezky or Hull did not take shots for the sake of taking them. They took quality shots and scored on many of them. I agree that Bossy could never match Ovechkin's scoring total as he would not take that number of shots. But IF Bossy did get the 528 quaility shots in a season, there is NOTHING that says he would have less than his normal 20% shooting % and therefore have over 100 goals.


It's not that players can't take the number of shots Ovechkin does. They don't because scoring goals is taking quality shots not just taking shots.

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Guest7886
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Posted - 02/08/2010 :  11:52:41  Reply with Quote
You neglect to consider that sometimes you take shots without the true intention of scoring.

You never know what will happen; ideally, the goalie could mess up. More realistically, you set up an easy rebound goal or scramble right in front of the night, particularly if you shot it low and into the pads.
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Guest7886
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Posted - 02/08/2010 :  11:53:51  Reply with Quote
"right in front of the net", rather. I should sign up one of these days so I could edit
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Hugh G. Rection
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Posted - 02/08/2010 :  12:01:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Glad you self-recognize your argument is/was flawed. Quantity doesn't mean quality, hockey isn't math, etc. I'd like to hear why it seems you'd rather have crosby take 6 shots a game and score on two rather than Ovechkin taking 12 and scoring 3-4 times, though.
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Beans15
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Canada
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Posted - 02/08/2010 :  12:12:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hugh G. Rection

Glad you self-recognize your argument is/was flawed. Quantity doesn't mean quality, hockey isn't math, etc. I'd like to hear why it seems you'd rather have crosby take 6 shots a game and score on two rather than Ovechkin taking 12 and scoring 3-4 times, though.



Because that math does not work out. It more like Crosby takes 4-6 shots a game and scores once where Ovechkin takes 8-16 shots and scores 2. Historically speaking. Ovechkin's numbers this year, and specifically in the past 2 months have been legendary.

But that's not the reason I would take Crosby over Ovechkin. Simply, I think Crosby is better overall and does not need the flash to show how good he is. There is nothing factual or substantial I can give. I simply believe that Crosby would rather win and look bad doing it than lose and look good. I think the flash and the accolades are more important than Ovechkin than winning are.
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Guest1758
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Posted - 02/08/2010 :  12:38:44  Reply with Quote
Are you seriously saying you don't think Ovie wants to win as bad as Crosby? Do you honestly think he plays the game for himself? Really think about those 2 things and picture when Ovie is on the ice and one of his teammates scores; Ovie gets just as excited for his teammate scoring as when he scores. This guy is the epidimy of loving/wanting to win. Ovie knows as much as anyone that he has the ability to single handedly change a game and so he does that. Not many players would have shot the puck right off the Backstrom faceoff yesterday and it resulted in a very key goal. Ovie leads by example and that's why he wears the C. Every General Manager in the league would love to have him on their team. Ovechkin does not play to lose, I'm not sure there is anyone who gets more excited about winning
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