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Guest9494
( )

Posted - 12/22/2009 :  09:26:32  Reply with Quote
Poll Question:
With Kovi contract still up in the air, gms must be starting to talk. Where will he be in the future?

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=303293

Choices:

Atlanta
Toronto
Montreal
Buffalo
Vancouver
Washington
Colorado
New Jersery
Edmonton
Other

(Anonymous Vote)

Edited by - willus3 on 01/11/2010 12:50:53

bounty2k3
Top Prospect



Canada
33 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2009 :  09:41:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I voted Atlanta. He will re-sign before the trade deadline. He wants to remain there for some reason. No other team can take his salary right now, other than teams that are way out of contention. Expect a 8-10 year deal in the 70 - 80 million area.

GO HAWKS GO!!!
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro



389 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2009 :  10:08:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
NHL radio reported that Kovalchuck's contract request was a ten year deal worth up to $11.5 million a year which is the max salary allowed for a player. Kovalchuck is a dynamic player but how do you walk up to your GM and say I wan't more than Ovechkin and Crosby? Those guys each have an Art Ross and Hart Trophy and Crosby has a Ring, Kovalchuck has made the play offs once and got swept by the Rangers. If I was Don Waddell I would have laughed at Kovalchuck's agent and told him to get the hell out of my office.

I hope for Atlanta's sake they re-sign him becuase they are finally starting to look like a legitimate franchise but without Kovalchuk they are back in the cellar.
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HawkinOilCountry
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
318 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2009 :  10:32:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I voted Edmonton, they seem to love paying rediculous amounts of money for over-rated players

*cough* Horcoff *cough*

The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1878 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2009 :  10:33:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Tiller33[/i]
[br]NHL radio reported that Kovalchuck's contract request was a ten year deal worth up to $11.5 million a year which is the max salary allowed for a player. Kovalchuck is a dynamic player but how do you walk up to your GM and say I wan't more than Ovechkin and Crosby? Those guys each have an Art Ross and Hart Trophy and Crosby has a Ring, Kovalchuck has made the play offs once and got swept by the Rangers. If I was Don Waddell I would have laughed at Kovalchuck's agent and told him to get the hell out of my office.

I hope for Atlanta's sake they re-sign him becuase they are finally starting to look like a legitimate franchise but without Kovalchuk they are back in the cellar.

The hope is they can trade him while his value is high or sign him if they feel his value is what he is asking. He is a legitimate franchise player and a top ten scorer who does not require top tier linemates to deliver. I'd say that puts him on par with Crosby, Ovechkin and Lecavalier range.

If Waddel can trade him and get a Lindros ransom in return this may be the turning point for this franchise. I for one hope he stays and they make the playoffs. This franchise is finally starting to rise in my opinion. They just gotta figure out how to not rest this franchise on one players head, as they do have many promising piece's.
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Thrasher
Rookie



Canada
155 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2009 :  11:12:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]Originally posted by HawkinOilCountry[/i]
[br]I voted Edmonton, they seem to love paying rediculous amounts of money for over-rated players

*cough* Horcoff *cough*

The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal.



Over Rated?

Umm excuse me? Kovalchuk is one of the premier goal scorers of this league. Many experts said that if he had a team even close to the caliber of Ovi's he would have stats comparable or perhaps superior to "the great 8". Yes, he has made playoffs once, but without Kovalchuk Atlanta has been an AHL team since coming into the league.

He had Savard BEFORE he had entered his playmaking prime, and has put up with a revolving door of supporting cast these last couple years. If Kovalchuk wouldnt be on the media blackout that is Atlanta, he would be far more appreciated for the kind of player he is. I hope he gets traded to a Canadian team, or at least one that people pay attention too. He is overlooked playing in Atlanta and can carry a team by himself if needed.

Hopefully he realizes its time to leave, however Atlanta is looking good this year. Their future looks bright with Kane, Bogosian, and Little. If Kovalchuk decides to stay, I hope Atlanta gets serious and gets some help for him, cause after all these years of losing, hes gotta have a shot at winning it one day.

I Promise I didn't give her the STD, I'm not a sharing person.
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brentrock2
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
571 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2009 :  11:38:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I voted Atlanta, I think he will still stay with Atlanta because he is one of there top players or is the top player and I don't think that Atlanta will let him go. Although Vancouver might think about it too. Heard some rumors about it somewhere or someone talking about it.

HABS RULE!!

brentrock2
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HawkinOilCountry
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
318 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2009 :  12:06:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If someone were to sign him for 11.5 million a year (like he reportedly wants) and he didn't start matching or beating the numbers and accomplishements of Ovie and Crosby, then I would wager he'd be considered among the most over-paid players in the NHL.

And since the Oilers don't seem to mind paying premiums for average players, I actually wouldn't be surprised to see them break the bank on a "good but not great" player. (insert massively sarcastic tone here)



The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1878 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2009 :  14:45:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]Originally posted by HawkinOilCountry[/i]
[br]If someone were to sign him for 11.5 million a year (like he reportedly wants) and he didn't start matching or beating the numbers and accomplishements of Ovie and Crosby, then I would wager he'd be considered among the most over-paid players in the NHL.

And since the Oilers don't seem to mind paying premiums for average players, I actually wouldn't be surprised to see them break the bank on a "good but not great" player. (insert massively sarcastic tone here)



The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal.

I wouldn't go for that bad record of signing when comparing Edmonton to Chicago. Next year its $36 million for Chicago's top 6 players compared to $31 million for Edmontons top 6 players, not to mention they have a former cup winner in Khabi signed for $3.75 million compared to a won nothing inferior goalie in Huet for $5.625. Based on Edmontons cap space next year they can afford to pay for Kovalchuk unlike Chicago who cant afford and have no-one anywhere near the caliber of Kovalchuk
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HawkinOilCountry
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
318 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2009 :  14:57:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You're right to say that Chicago has cap issues. But I honestly don't think Chicago needs Kovalchuk. If they've done nothing else this year the Hawks have shown that they are a team of great depth with some good quality (albeit high priced) Forwards and D. Chicago has a championship potential team already. They won't be actively seeking to fix what essentially ain't broken.

Yes Huet is not a great deal, but I think Huet is better for Chicago than Horcoff is for Edmonton. And Edmonton is a team that definitly NEEDS the shuffle the deck and rebuild, whereas Chicago might want to move some guys around but not necessarily pick up a rediculously high priced forward.

Really that's neither here nor there. Bottom line is I'm not saying Edmonton pays out the MOST for questionable talent, but I would definitly have the Oilers in my "Top 5 silly contract signings" category.

The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal.
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1547 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2009 :  02:17:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I could see kovalchuk pulling a Hossa, sign a one year deal at a reasonable salary(compared to the other players and his skills) and try to win the Cup, then take his money all the way to the bank the next year.

CANUCKS RULE!!!
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
936 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2009 :  07:33:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ill tell you right now who will get kovalchuck IF atlanta does not resign. The LA Kings.

They are one of the only teams who:

a) Have the prospects/peices to make a deal for kovalchuck; atlanta WILL trade him if they cant sign him by the deadline.

b) have the capspace and ownership to commit to a player like kovalchuck

c) are a big market team where kovalchuck can be a star on a big stage

d) are good enough now to make a legit run in the playoffs; something kovalchuck would want

There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2009 :  07:51:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kovalchuk absolutely will resign in Atlanta. There is not even a doubt. Kovalchuk has said that he not only wants to play for only one team in his career, but he wants that team to be Atlanta.

And if something does happen where he doesn't sign, the deadline deal will be no bigger than Hossa's deal a few year ago (Hossa and Dupuis for Armstrong, Christensen, Esposito and a 1st round pick).

No GM in their right mind will do a Lindros type trade for a UFA at the trade deadline. Unless it's a long term sign and trade deal.

And players will always make more and more money each year. RIght out of the strike, players were getting $7-$8 million. Last few seasons they have been getting $9-$10 million. Kovalchuk getting $11 million is not out of this world considering the NHL economics. Crosby/Malkin's next deal will be $10-$11 million.

Edited by - Beans15 on 12/23/2009 07:52:00
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4593 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2009 :  09:59:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I voted for Atlanta, then read the TSN story . . . and I have changed my mind: Kovie's going somewhere else, I can sense it!

If I've learned anything from reading press releases during negotiations throughout the years, it's this - the player and his agent almost always give lots of hints as to what they are thinking. A lot of it is in the language, and Kovalchuk gives us these time-worn, tested and true phrases to chew on:

"It's a business"

"It's their (management's) decision"

blah blah says all the right things about where he is now . . . but then adds, ". . . but you never know."

These are classic, slam-dunk clues that Kovalchuk is moving. It starts with the displacement of 'blame', by giving away the decision (solely Kovalchuk's decision, since we know Atlanta wants to keep him) to someone else, as if the fact that sports is run like a business now has anything to do with Kovalchuk's desire to stay in Atlanta or not. Saying it's management's decision is also another classic, as if poor little Kovalchuk has no say in the matter . . . well, all it says to me is that Kovalchuk's agent has sold him on sticking to his contract demands and not wavering one bit. It also prepares the public in a way, it's almost a nice way to in the end say, "well, it was management's decision not to resign me for what I asked for" and in the end, the fans will whine and cry about exactly that - management not re-signing.

The "you never know" at the end just adds one more phrase in that confirms it for me, after the other ones: he has already made up his mind to move. To where, I don't have a bloody clue . . . but Kovalchuk is in that unique position that only the top 5 or 6 players in the league have: he can go wherever he chooses.

He's Ghandi like Mohattma.
He's Audi 5000.
He's Gone With the Wind.


"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro



640 Posts

Posted - 12/24/2009 :  08:29:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It has been reported for at least the last two years that Kovalchuk wants to move to a big market where hockey matters. Where there is 20,000 fans in the seats every night. He is tired of being apart of a losing franchise, in a city that doesn't care about hockey and the ownership not doing anything about it.
I have read different stories over the past where he had a list of teams he would play for when his contract was up and a he had a real desire to play for the Rangers, Flyers, Habs, or Leafs.
Some of the latest stories have reported that he was happy with what Atlanta has done this year and may be interested in resigning.
My bet is that he is done in Atlanta. He has always had a desire to be a big star in the NHL and in his mind he will never get that status playing in Atlanta. If he wanted to play in Atlanta he would have signed by now.
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HawkinOilCountry
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
318 Posts

Posted - 12/24/2009 :  11:50:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yea the fact that he hasn't re-signed yet leads me to beleive that he's pretty much just looking for the best offer he can. He wants 11.5 million a year, and if a bigger franchise than Atlanta is going to offer it to him he's going to take it.

The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal.
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polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro



525 Posts

Posted - 12/24/2009 :  12:15:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Obviously Edmonton will try to get Kovalchuk, but I think they'll try to do it more carefully than they did with Heatley, although if Kovalchuk decides not to resign, then he'll go to a team that has a legitimate chance to win a cup or two in the near future.

I don't know what team have the cap space or ability to make cap space for Kovalchuk, but once you find the combo of a team that will become a contender and is will to throw heaps of money at Kovalchuk, you've found your team.
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro



389 Posts

Posted - 12/24/2009 :  14:36:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
[i]Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA[/i]
[br]
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Tiller33[/i]
[br]NHL radio reported that Kovalchuck's contract request was a ten year deal worth up to $11.5 million a year which is the max salary allowed for a player. Kovalchuck is a dynamic player but how do you walk up to your GM and say I wan't more than Ovechkin and Crosby? Those guys each have an Art Ross and Hart Trophy and Crosby has a Ring, Kovalchuck has made the play offs once and got swept by the Rangers. If I was Don Waddell I would have laughed at Kovalchuck's agent and told him to get the hell out of my office.

Tottally agree he is a $9 million dollar player and on par with those guys in terms of talent, but the poiint was he was asking for 2.5 million more than them.

I hope for Atlanta's sake they re-sign him becuase they are finally starting to look like a legitimate franchise but without Kovalchuk they are back in the cellar.

The hope is they can trade him while his value is high or sign him if they feel his value is what he is asking. He is a legitimate franchise player and a top ten scorer who does not require top tier linemates to deliver. I'd say that puts him on par with Crosby, Ovechkin and Lecavalier range.

If Waddel can trade him and get a Lindros ransom in return this may be the turning point for this franchise. I for one hope he stays and they make the playoffs. This franchise is finally starting to rise in my opinion. They just gotta figure out how to not rest this franchise on one players head, as they do have many promising piece's.

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sewerat67
Top Prospect



Canada
2 Posts

Posted - 12/24/2009 :  17:24:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Although the Habs are against the cap,it would be a good fit..Maybe trade Gionta and his salary,some picks/prospects,and a decent player.85 had a good scenario with the L.A.Kings,I could see that happening.It would give that market a needed revival.I voted Montreal.N.Y,Rangers could be another outside shot,they seem to get the biggest stars.If they could just have the $$$in cap space they are wasting on Redden,it would be possible.One of the worst signings in history.
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Guest2264
( )

Posted - 12/25/2009 :  06:47:11  Reply with Quote
kovalchuk aint going to edmonton...be serious, who wants to go to edmonton ?? if he moves it will be to the leafs in the off season, they got plenty of cap room and a gm to go directly after him....toronto has needed a player like this for a long time....he is one of the nhl greats
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Guest2642
( )

Posted - 01/06/2010 :  07:46:11  Reply with Quote
I do agree that Kovalchuk is completely underappreciated because of his market. I think the up coming Olympics might be a bit of a coming out for him...for lack of a better term.
Certainly a big stage where you can compare apples to apples.
As for a trade...I do think he will probably resign with Atlanta but having said that 11.6 is too much for anybody and he can indeed go ANYWHERE. Los Angeles is definitely doable and appealing but what about a place like Philadelphia?? They definitely need something...a shot in the arm so to speak. They also have some attractive prospects and established players with big contracts that they might be able to trade...Briere??
Lastly, I do find the "comments" coming from Kovie as beimng very intriguing...lol
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4593 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2010 :  08:10:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, I do think Kovalchuk will want to go to a bigger market with a greater chance of endorsement deals and some kind of professional recognition. So, to me, that throws out a team such like Edmonton from the running . . . but again, that's just the "vibe" I get from reading into statements which may or may not mean much.

Whether he wants to dive into the premier fishbowls of Toronto or Montreal is another thing entirely. Toronto is in a great position to go after a player of Kovalchuk's contract weight though, so automatically I think that places them near the top in terms of teams Kovalchuk might go to other than Atlanta. As people have mentioned, LA could be enticing as well.

I will state here right now, that if Toronto ever got Kovalchuk, this city would be absolutely electric, and his jersey alone would be sold out constantly for a couple of years. Toronto hasn't had a superstar of his stature since arguably Gilmour, and although he's not a good old Canadian boy, that doesn't matter as much when you're as good as he is - plus, there is a huge Russian community in Toronto (another pull for Kovalchuk you may not have thought of).

I try not to think about Kovalchuk possibly coming to Toronto too much though, I don't want to get too excited about it or jinx it, lol.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1878 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2010 :  08:45:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

Well, I do think Kovalchuk will want to go to a bigger market with a greater chance of endorsement deals and some kind of professional recognition. So, to me, that throws out a team such like Edmonton from the running . . . but again, that's just the "vibe" I get from reading into statements which may or may not mean much.

Whether he wants to dive into the premier fishbowls of Toronto or Montreal is another thing entirely. Toronto is in a great position to go after a player of Kovalchuk's contract weight though, so automatically I think that places them near the top in terms of teams Kovalchuk might go to other than Atlanta. As people have mentioned, LA could be enticing as well.

I will state here right now, that if Toronto ever got Kovalchuk, this city would be absolutely electric, and his jersey alone would be sold out constantly for a couple of years. Toronto hasn't had a superstar of his stature since arguably Gilmour, and although he's not a good old Canadian boy, that doesn't matter as much when you're as good as he is - plus, there is a huge Russian community in Toronto (another pull for Kovalchuk you may not have thought of).

I try not to think about Kovalchuk possibly coming to Toronto too much though, I don't want to get too excited about it or jinx it, lol.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

I believe the talks about him wanting to go to a bigger market surrounded him wanting to go to a contending team. Dont get me wrong, Kovalchuk is not the last piece to put the Leafs over the hump, especially with what Toronto would have to give up to get him. If he is available come free agency Burke will burn down the Arena to sign Kovalchuk, but thats only if he doesnt have to give up key pieces to get him. I could see them trading White or Kaberle with a package of prospects to close the deal if he decides to trade for him. I bet Atlanta asks for a top 6 forward and a top 4 offensive D-man and prospects.

I for one would love to see him in Ottawa and the Sen's have a habit of going out on a limb for offensive Russians. Could happen if Atlanta likes Spezza and a D-man like Volchenkov who is UFA at the end of this season. Kovalev and Kovalchuk on the same line, hmmm. I bet playing with Kovalchuk could even ignite Cheechoos game, although unlikely
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4593 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2010 :  10:06:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
JoshuaCanada - it's dangerous to dream, don't do it! It'll just set you up for disappointment later and make your head explode!

But what the hell is life without a little dreaming?

Let me see . . . it's before the trade deadline, and Atlanta would get the message that Kovalchuk wants out and is not going to re-sign. Under that pressure, there'd be a bidding war, but a small one, considering the size of Kovie's contract.

If I were Atlanta's GM, I'd absolutely have to get a first line player back, or at least two very solid second liners, plus at least one high pick, and then a throw-in or two. But it couldn't just be prospects, there'd have to be at least two everyday players involved.

If I was the Leafs GM, knowing this, I'd offer up Stajan and Ponikarovsky for starters. Remember, Antropov had good chemistry at times with both, and Atlanta's top lines would begin to resemble Toronto's the last few years. I'd also offer up one of my d-men: Finger, VanRyn, or Exelby if they want him back. Then, maybe drop in a second rounder . . . an of course, all this would be contingent on signing Kovie long-term in the future.

Stajan, Poni, Finger, and a second round pick.

I would not give up Kaberle, Kessel, Hagman, Beauchemin, Gustavsson, Komisarek, Stalberg and White. All others would be open for discussion in a deal . . . including Schenn.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Guest4803
( )

Posted - 01/06/2010 :  10:13:15  Reply with Quote
I cant see toronto trading for kovalchuk unless they somehow get a couple of 1st round draft picks back to deal with, if atlanta gives up kovalchuk there gonna want a 1st for sure plus a top 6 forward and top 4 dman or prospects.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1878 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2010 :  12:07:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

JoshuaCanada - it's dangerous to dream, don't do it! It'll just set you up for disappointment later and make your head explode!

But what the hell is life without a little dreaming?

Let me see . . . it's before the trade deadline, and Atlanta would get the message that Kovalchuk wants out and is not going to re-sign. Under that pressure, there'd be a bidding war, but a small one, considering the size of Kovie's contract.

If I were Atlanta's GM, I'd absolutely have to get a first line player back, or at least two very solid second liners, plus at least one high pick, and then a throw-in or two. But it couldn't just be prospects, there'd have to be at least two everyday players involved.

If I was the Leafs GM, knowing this, I'd offer up Stajan and Ponikarovsky for starters. Remember, Antropov had good chemistry at times with both, and Atlanta's top lines would begin to resemble Toronto's the last few years. I'd also offer up one of my d-men: Finger, VanRyn, or Exelby if they want him back. Then, maybe drop in a second rounder . . . an of course, all this would be contingent on signing Kovie long-term in the future.

Stajan, Poni, Finger, and a second round pick.

I would not give up Kaberle, Kessel, Hagman, Beauchemin, Gustavsson, Komisarek, Stalberg and White. All others would be open for discussion in a deal . . . including Schenn.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

The point I was trying to make was you would figure Toronto for the rights to negotiate with Kovalchuk would have to give up top 6 forward and top 4 d-man. Toronto was shopping (dont know how serious) both Kaberle and White in the offseason. If you look at Atlanta now an offensive defenseman would do wonders for an already bolstered d-corp. The Loss of Kovalchuk would be significant to the forward group so they would need a top 6 forward maybe even a top 3 to fill the shoes that they could not truly fill in Kovie's absence from the group of available forwards. Plus I'd find it unlikely T.O is Kovie's destination. I think he wants to play with an almost complete team like Hossa did a few years ago, ie the finishing touchs of a stanley cup contender.

Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 01/06/2010 12:11:48
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Guest2789
( )

Posted - 01/06/2010 :  12:55:09  Reply with Quote
Atlanta is a joke...they shouldn't even have a team in the NHL. And why is it that every Toronto fan thinks that is where a player wants to go....have they checked TOs playoff record...yeah that is enticing.....cmon get real....when you think about it, Edm could put together a pretty good package Horcoff, Gilbert and Cogliano for kovy...seems fair enough and it frees up a bunch of cash for Edm to pay him...can be done. Managers in the NHL are kinda stupid in the way the negotiate..it has been proven.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1878 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2010 :  14:11:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2789

Atlanta is a joke...they shouldn't even have a team in the NHL. And why is it that every Toronto fan thinks that is where a player wants to go....have they checked TOs playoff record...yeah that is enticing.....cmon get real....when you think about it, Edm could put together a pretty good package Horcoff, Gilbert and Cogliano for kovy...seems fair enough and it frees up a bunch of cash for Edm to pay him...can be done. Managers in the NHL are kinda stupid in the way the negotiate..it has been proven.

If Atlanta takes on Gilbert, Horcoff and Cogliano's salary and give away Kovalchuk for that type of play return they would be as guilty of bad signings as the Oiler's and Kevin Lowe have been. Cogs hasn't returned to form, Horcoff is a 3rd or 4th liner, and Gilbert although an ok defenseman is a close 2nd or 3rd for overpaid players on the Oilers roster.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2010 :  14:18:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I still find it strange that Vancouver leads the poll? I've not heard a word about Vancouver as a possible destination when his name comes up and that's from the media here in Vancouver? Who knows, maybe he'll win gold here, lead the tournament in scoring and simply fall in love with GM Place, Vancouver, etc? I too can dream?

Of the teams mentioned so far, i could see Edmonton being in the mix. They've got a bunch of decent young guys they could offer and maybe throw in a few picks? Don't know their current draft pick situation though? The thing with Edmonton is this, they have a lot of smallish forwards. I believe that's prob part of the reason Eberle didn't make the team this year. He's not a big guy (5'10, 174) and they'd already made somewhat of a commitment to guys like Cogliano (5'10, 185), Gagner (5'10, 191), Nilsson (5'11, 183). Adding him this year maybe was just too many small fwd's? It's not often that it hurts a kid's development having them spend one more year in junior, so i'm thinking that's what they chose to do. Now, moving forward, they may be able to dish off a package with some of these other guys included for Kovalchuk? However, does he want to go to a team that's doing that poorly? The only sell they might have is to tell him that Eberle is close, Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson is close, and look, we have a shot at Taylor Hall or Tyler Seguin (or whoever else is a high pick this year)? Still don't know if Kovie wants to be part of a rebuilding team though? I kinda doubt it.....
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Guest2789
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Posted - 01/06/2010 :  14:41:52  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

I still find it strange that Vancouver leads the poll? I've not heard a word about Vancouver as a possible destination when his name comes up and that's from the media here in Vancouver? Who knows, maybe he'll win gold here, lead the tournament in scoring and simply fall in love with GM Place, Vancouver, etc? I too can dream?

Of the teams mentioned so far, i could see Edmonton being in the mix. They've got a bunch of decent young guys they could offer and maybe throw in a few picks? Don't know their current draft pick situation though? The thing with Edmonton is this, they have a lot of smallish forwards. I believe that's prob part of the reason Eberle didn't make the team this year. He's not a big guy (5'10, 174) and they'd already made somewhat of a commitment to guys like Cogliano (5'10, 185), Gagner (5'10, 191), Nilsson (5'11, 183). Adding him this year maybe was just too many small fwd's? It's not often that it hurts a kid's development having them spend one more year in junior, so i'm thinking that's what they chose to do. Now, moving forward, they may be able to dish off a package with some of these other guys included for Kovalchuk? However, does he want to go to a team that's doing that poorly? The only sell they might have is to tell him that Eberle is close, Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson is close, and look, we have a shot at Taylor Hall or Tyler Seguin (or whoever else is a high pick this year)? Still don't know if Kovie wants to be part of a rebuilding team though? I kinda doubt it.....

Very good points....Lowe is not really that good of a mgr, but if he really wants to change the make up of the team, it can be done. IMO O'sullivan could be put into the package, even Moreau can go.
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Guest2106
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Posted - 01/06/2010 :  16:10:32  Reply with Quote
Slozo, really? Seriously?

Kovi for Stajan/Poni/Finger/2nd rounder?

What? There's isn't even a prospect among that group, not even close.

The Hossa/Dupuis deal was for Armstrong/Christensen/Esposito and a 1st Rounder (Leveille). At the time all three of those guys were better prospects than your suggested deal for the Leaf's spare parts. Now those guys haven't really worked out, but do you really think ATL's GM hasn't learned from his past mistake?

Ridiculous, I'm sorry, I know I know, your a Leaf's fan and hoping, but its not happening. Maybe as a UFA. Not this season.
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Guest2650
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Posted - 01/06/2010 :  19:22:32  Reply with Quote
At this point i don't really care where Kovalchuk ends up, so long as it's with an NHL team. I'd hate to see a player of his calibre leave the NHL for Russia.
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Guest4803
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Posted - 01/07/2010 :  10:59:16  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2789

quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

I still find it strange that Vancouver leads the poll? I've not heard a word about Vancouver as a possible destination when his name comes up and that's from the media here in Vancouver? Who knows, maybe he'll win gold here, lead the tournament in scoring and simply fall in love with GM Place, Vancouver, etc? I too can dream?

Of the teams mentioned so far, i could see Edmonton being in the mix. They've got a bunch of decent young guys they could offer and maybe throw in a few picks? Don't know their current draft pick situation though? The thing with Edmonton is this, they have a lot of smallish forwards. I believe that's prob part of the reason Eberle didn't make the team this year. He's not a big guy (5'10, 174) and they'd already made somewhat of a commitment to guys like Cogliano (5'10, 185), Gagner (5'10, 191), Nilsson (5'11, 183). Adding him this year maybe was just too many small fwd's? It's not often that it hurts a kid's development having them spend one more year in junior, so i'm thinking that's what they chose to do. Now, moving forward, they may be able to dish off a package with some of these other guys included for Kovalchuk? However, does he want to go to a team that's doing that poorly? The only sell they might have is to tell him that Eberle is close, Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson is close, and look, we have a shot at Taylor Hall or Tyler Seguin (or whoever else is a high pick this year)? Still don't know if Kovie wants to be part of a rebuilding team though? I kinda doubt it.....

Very good points....Lowe is not really that good of a mgr, but if he really wants to change the make up of the team, it can be done. IMO O'sullivan could be put into the package, even Moreau can go.




lowe isnt their gm its tambelleni
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4593 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2010 :  11:16:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2106

Slozo, really? Seriously?

Kovi for Stajan/Poni/Finger/2nd rounder?

What? There's isn't even a prospect among that group, not even close.

The Hossa/Dupuis deal was for Armstrong/Christensen/Esposito and a 1st Rounder (Leveille). At the time all three of those guys were better prospects than your suggested deal for the Leaf's spare parts. Now those guys haven't really worked out, but do you really think ATL's GM hasn't learned from his past mistake?

Ridiculous, I'm sorry, I know I know, your a Leaf's fan and hoping, but its not happening. Maybe as a UFA. Not this season.



And what would any Atlanta GM have learned from the Hossa mistake? That you need to get an actually player (in this case, because of Kovalchuk's elevated status, players) in return that is playing every day. I know if I were Atlanta GM that would be a prerequisite . . .

And like I said, I'd have everyone but 7 or 8 guys available to deal or throw in for Kovalchuk, and that's usually how these deals go. Oh, you like Kulemin? Ok, we could part with him (or Tlusty, or Mitchell, etc etc), but then we don't give a pick as well . . . and so on.

So yeah, in my suggestion there isn't a true prospect, but you get two arguably top 6 players who have played before with Antropov and have chemistry with him; and you have a decent, every day defenceman. And, a second rounder.

Unless you are getting a first round draft pick from a bottom feeder, it's all a crap shoot, really.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1878 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2010 :  11:25:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

quote:
Originally posted by Guest2106

Slozo, really? Seriously?

Kovi for Stajan/Poni/Finger/2nd rounder?

What? There's isn't even a prospect among that group, not even close.

The Hossa/Dupuis deal was for Armstrong/Christensen/Esposito and a 1st Rounder (Leveille). At the time all three of those guys were better prospects than your suggested deal for the Leaf's spare parts. Now those guys haven't really worked out, but do you really think ATL's GM hasn't learned from his past mistake?

Ridiculous, I'm sorry, I know I know, your a Leaf's fan and hoping, but its not happening. Maybe as a UFA. Not this season.



And what would any Atlanta GM have learned from the Hossa mistake? That you need to get an actually player (in this case, because of Kovalchuk's elevated status, players) in return that is playing every day. I know if I were Atlanta GM that would be a prerequisite . . .

And like I said, I'd have everyone but 7 or 8 guys available to deal or throw in for Kovalchuk, and that's usually how these deals go. Oh, you like Kulemin? Ok, we could part with him (or Tlusty, or Mitchell, etc etc), but then we don't give a pick as well . . . and so on.

So yeah, in my suggestion there isn't a true prospect, but you get two arguably top 6 players who have played before with Antropov and have chemistry with him; and you have a decent, every day defenceman. And, a second rounder.

Unless you are getting a first round draft pick from a bottom feeder, it's all a crap shoot, really.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

I'd still rather pick from the cupboard of another team. Seems more benificial to Toronto to lose the spare parts than Atlanta. Really see Colorado or LA with all the prospects and spare parts available. A guy like Kovalchuk could put those teams over. By that I mean put them on the level of Chicago/San Jose/Calgary. At least in terms of offense, as long as they dont give up a tonne to recieve him
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Guest2789
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Posted - 01/07/2010 :  12:46:14  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4803

quote:
Originally posted by Guest2789

quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

I still find it strange that Vancouver leads the poll? I've not heard a word about Vancouver as a possible destination when his name comes up and that's from the media here in Vancouver? Who knows, maybe he'll win gold here, lead the tournament in scoring and simply fall in love with GM Place, Vancouver, etc? I too can dream?

Of the teams mentioned so far, i could see Edmonton being in the mix. They've got a bunch of decent young guys they could offer and maybe throw in a few picks? Don't know their current draft pick situation though? The thing with Edmonton is this, they have a lot of smallish forwards. I believe that's prob part of the reason Eberle didn't make the team this year. He's not a big guy (5'10, 174) and they'd already made somewhat of a commitment to guys like Cogliano (5'10, 185), Gagner (5'10, 191), Nilsson (5'11, 183). Adding him this year maybe was just too many small fwd's? It's not often that it hurts a kid's development having them spend one more year in junior, so i'm thinking that's what they chose to do. Now, moving forward, they may be able to dish off a package with some of these other guys included for Kovalchuk? However, does he want to go to a team that's doing that poorly? The only sell they might have is to tell him that Eberle is close, Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson is close, and look, we have a shot at Taylor Hall or Tyler Seguin (or whoever else is a high pick this year)? Still don't know if Kovie wants to be part of a rebuilding team though? I kinda doubt it.....

Very good points....Lowe is not really that good of a mgr, but if he really wants to change the make up of the team, it can be done. IMO O'sullivan could be put into the package, even Moreau can go.




lowe isnt their gm its tambelleni

Meant to say Lowe wasn't that good of a Mgr.
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Guest4022
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Posted - 01/07/2010 :  16:46:34  Reply with Quote
The NHL will make sure he stays in Atlanta.....just like they made sure the 'Yotes stayed in Phoenix. If he bolts for free agency that franchise is going to fold like a cheap tent, and the NHL and Bettman can't have that.
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Guest2106
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Posted - 01/07/2010 :  16:54:12  Reply with Quote
Slozo, Fair enough, open up those cupboards to a lot more players, I still don't see the pay back. In reality, there aren't a lot of Leafs, if any, worth Kovi. Sorry.

Even a Kulemin, Stralberg, and White deal just doesn't seem worth it to me. In my mind, that's a 2nd liner, Mid level prospect and 3rd D man. You might differ on how you rate those guys, particularly White. To me, White would have to slot in after the Kubina/Enstrom pairing, but even if you make him maybe a prospect for a 2nd D man, I still don't see it worth while to Atlanta.

Honestly, there just aren't a lot of current Leafs I see worth as worth while. Maybe I'm jaded not being a Leafs fan, or maybe you're jaded being a Leafer. I just can't see any of the Leafs pieces being worth it.

But, if it'll cheer you up, you're not likely making the playoffs this year anyway. But Kovi is a UFA. You have all summer to throw money at him, don't waste your spare parts this year.
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1315 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2010 :  17:57:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I can not see Atlanta letting Kovalchuk go, atleast not without a fight.

Atlanta can not afford to let Kovi go, he's been their star performer (only star performer) in franchise history. If Kovi goes, it's because Kovi wanted to.

With that being said, I don't see a big return coming for Kovi. Mainly because they will fight until the end to keep him, until they have no choice but to trade him (and his big money) away.

I see little return on Kovi, not because he's not worth it, but because the timing will not allow it.

I see Kovi staying in Atlanta, so it doesn't matter the return I guess.

Irvine/prez.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4593 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2010 :  05:07:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No one, especially not me, is saying that the Leafs have more to offer Atlanta than most other teams in the league for a Kovalchuk deal . . . far from it. I know the cupboard is pretty bare, and what we do want to get rid of is underperforming and overpriced (Blake, Grabovski, Ponikarovsky).

Still, I put my dream out there because of one thing: it'll be up to Kovalchuk where he wants to go, and there would be major cap issues for any team looking to sign him before the trade deadline. I am guessing without really knowing that Kovalchuk has a no-trade clause, ensuring he can nix any deal to a team not of his choosing . . . and in my hypothetical scenario, Kovalchuk has the decency to tell Atlanta he won't be re-signing with them, in order to let them know they can at least deal him before the deadline to get value back and potentially not sink the franchise.

Then, Kovalchuk would give them a list of teams he'd like to go to . . . much like Heater did last year. Whether a deal works out or not is a whole other issue and also not likely in these times, but like I said, it's all hypothetical.

So, looking at the factors involved, I sort of agree with Irvine - not very likely at all that Atlanta would ever give up on signing Kovalchuk until the bitter end . . . but as I said, it's my hypothetical situation if Kovalchuk or his agent ever gave a 100% definitive answer to Atlanta management.

The Leafs slump, so I continue to dream . . .

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2010 :  07:13:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think some people are not putting this into the perspective of the actual situation. I need only ask one question.

What GM in their right mind would sell the farm for a player than they can pick up for straight cash and no players on July 1st??

The only way that a Kovalchuk trade would match market value is if the deal is a long term sign in ATL and then a trade. And again, why would a GM want to do that if Kovalchuk will come for no players??

The answer to that is only those team that made bad decisions with salaries and want to dump, such as the Oilers. But let's face it, will Waddell really want a deal for Horcoff and Gilbert at a combined $10 million a season?? Not on your life.

I still say Kovalchuk signs in ATL as they can't get fair market value for him today as a UFA in a matter of months and that team is nothing without him.

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