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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 04/17/2012 :  18:17:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest8875

Whatever happens with Luongo, I TOLD YOU GUYS(any VAN fan who would listen) you should of traded him last year before the trade deadline while his value still holds higher than what he is actually worth. Schneider would be proven by now instead of a question mark and just imagine what teams would of gave for him last year compared to next year...
Now pick up your jaw and pray for better foresight



What are you talking about if they would have traded him they wouldn't have got to game 7 of the finals. One win from hoisting the cup!

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors

Edited by - Clatts on 04/17/2012 18:21:07
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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 04/17/2012 :  18:20:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by vandrew87

quote:
Originally posted by Guest4604

Luongo would excel better in a non-hockey market. schneids just seems more mentally stronger than Lou and that's huge in this game. an 82 grind.

the canucks can then call up lack who's a freakin' tree. 6'5" on skates



Eddie Lack is gonna be the next Pekka Rinne. I'm so excited to see this kid take to the ice! He's gonna be gooooooood

"If you can play, You Can Play"



High praise for a guy who hasn't suited up in the NHL yet

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5799 Posts

Posted - 04/18/2012 :  00:26:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Clatts

quote:
Originally posted by Guest8875

Whatever happens with Luongo, I TOLD YOU GUYS(any VAN fan who would listen) you should of traded him last year before the trade deadline while his value still holds higher than what he is actually worth. Schneider would be proven by now instead of a question mark and just imagine what teams would of gave for him last year compared to next year...
Now pick up your jaw and pray for better foresight



What are you talking about if they would have traded him they wouldn't have got to game 7 of the finals. One win from hoisting the cup!

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors



Clatts, thank you, i know that it prob hurt you to defend anything "Canuck", but reading that post from 8875 had me shaking my head so hard i screwed my neck up. 8875, seriously, ah, forget it. If you really think they should have traded Luongo at the deadline last year, you're not worthy of a retort.
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Guest8384
( )

Posted - 04/18/2012 :  05:24:49  Reply with Quote
I don't see how not trading him has worked out for them. You don't know that Schneider wouldn't have won them the cup. I think they got to the finals in spite of Roberto not because of him. What do you think he is worth right now?
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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 04/18/2012 :  05:51:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

quote:
Originally posted by Clatts

quote:
Originally posted by Guest8875

Whatever happens with Luongo, I TOLD YOU GUYS(any VAN fan who would listen) you should of traded him last year before the trade deadline while his value still holds higher than what he is actually worth. Schneider would be proven by now instead of a question mark and just imagine what teams would of gave for him last year compared to next year...
Now pick up your jaw and pray for better foresight



What are you talking about if they would have traded him they wouldn't have got to game 7 of the finals. One win from hoisting the cup!

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors



Clatts, thank you, i know that it prob hurt you to defend anything "Canuck", but reading that post from 8875 had me shaking my head so hard i screwed my neck up. 8875, seriously, ah, forget it. If you really think they should have traded Luongo at the deadline last year, you're not worthy of a retort.



I may not like the Canucks but you can't ignore their accomplishments.

Guest 8384 - My points is that when Guest 8875 says "I TOLD YOU GUYS(any VAN fan who would listen) you should of traded him last year before the trade deadline". It's like he's so proud of his opinion, fact if 1 win more win and any of those "Van fans who would listen" would be laughing so hard at the guy.

When your a top team as Vancouver is you DO NOT trade your starting goalie at the deadline in favour for a unproven (albeit good) backup. If you get tossed in the first round ownership will set fire to anyone that wears a tie on game day.

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors
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Guest5091
( )

Posted - 04/18/2012 :  06:39:47  Reply with Quote
It would have been a stupid move to do, but in hindsight, it would probably have gotten them the cup... Hindsight is 20/20 though.

Excluding contracts, the Canucks' situation is a no-brainer. Schneider's consistently outplayed Luongo over the last 2 seasons and the team has played better in from of him too. He's also younger with a brighter future ahead of him.

Luongo's contract puts a stick in the spokes though because it makes it a lot harder to move him and to get a fair (or at least acceptable) return for him.
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Guest8384
( )

Posted - 04/18/2012 :  07:05:11  Reply with Quote
And who is the number 1 goalie in Vancouver?

You can't possibly argue about what would have happened last year if they traded him and neither can I. they may have won the cup or they have lost in the 1st round nobody knows.

The guest posting about being right, I think he was. You show me a Vancouver fan that is glad Roberto is "their goalie" and is glad with that contract because the $$$$ and length count too. The guest is saying they should have traded him when his value was higher which it was last year. The fact is they didn't win the cup and I think they have a better chance with Schneider. It removes a lot of money that can be spent elsewhere and the biggest thing is I think the team is more comfortable in front of Schneider.

I will ask again. What do you think Luongo is worth right now?
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1899 Posts

Posted - 04/18/2012 :  09:40:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If the Canuck dress Schneider and they win, Loungo is worth a well used, black and white gameboy.
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Guest6786
( )

Posted - 04/18/2012 :  13:30:37  Reply with Quote
this is insane. i've never seen hockey fans dump so much on a goalie for coming within ONE GAME of hoisting the holy grail.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3590 Posts

Posted - 04/18/2012 :  13:53:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest6786

this is insane. i've never seen hockey fans dump so much on a goalie for coming within ONE GAME of hoisting the holy grail.



Who is dumping on Luongo? This thread is speculating about what the Canucks might do in the offseason, given they have two high quality goaltenders and can only keep one of them next year. Is trading Luongo and keeping Schneider so far fetched?
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1899 Posts

Posted - 04/18/2012 :  14:39:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, its official. Schneider announced as the starting goaltender. This far in to the series there is no way to recover Loungo's value after the post season. I am betting the captain makes a trade request in the off season. I know I would. What kind of a position does this put the Canucks in trade value wise.
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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
573 Posts

Posted - 04/18/2012 :  14:46:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

Well, its official. Schneider announced as the starting goaltender. This far in to the series there is no way to recover Loungo's value after the post season. I am betting the captain makes a trade request in the off season. I know I would. What kind of a position does this put the Canucks in trade value wise.



by starting schnieder in game 4 they have decided to trade luongo
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5799 Posts

Posted - 04/18/2012 :  17:23:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest5091

It would have been a stupid move to do, but in hindsight, it would probably have gotten them the cup... Hindsight is 20/20 though.

Talk about ridiculous comments! How in the world do you know that had the Canucks traded Luongo at the deadline, they'd have gotten to game 7 of the SCF. Truth is, you don't! Is it not fair to say that Schneider may have completely choked under pressure as the go to guy without an experienced backup? Heck, he could have blown a knee out in the first game and the job been left to Eddie Lack! Seriously people, think about it. Now just imagine had they done it and failed with Schneider, what you and the rest of the world would be saying about what a stupid move it was! If you can't tell, i'm pretty horrified at the suggestion of trading him at last year's deadling. Talk about hindsight.

Oh, and don't forget, Luongo would have had to waive his NTC and they'd have had to find a home for him. And, to answer anyone's questions regarding returns on him, the value they will get back is far greater measured in cap space than it is talent. They would not have gotten much more, if anything, last year than they will this offseason if they choose to attempt to move him, which FTR, still requires his approval!

Lol....then again, maybe you guys are right. I suppose if Philly had traded Richards and Carter a couple years ago, they'd have not only gotten more for them, they'd have won that cup back in 2010! And had Detroit only traded Pavel Datsyuk at the '09 deadline, they'd have prob won back to back cups. And they year before that...........

Excluding contracts, the Canucks' situation is a no-brainer. Schneider's consistently outplayed Luongo over the last 2 seasons and the team has played better in from of him too. He's also younger with a brighter future ahead of him.

Luongo's contract puts a stick in the spokes though because it makes it a lot harder to move him and to get a fair (or at least acceptable) return for him.
[/quote]
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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 04/18/2012 :  21:38:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

Well, its official. Schneider announced as the starting goaltender. This far in to the series there is no way to recover Loungo's value after the post season. I am betting the captain makes a trade request in the off season. I know I would. What kind of a position does this put the Canucks in trade value wise.



Henrick Sedin is the Captain of the Canucks not Luongo

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
388 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2012 :  07:10:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
given Burkes ties to van. is it to far fetched to see lou come to TOR somehow?

burke did say in his end of season interview he is going to try to gain that number 1 goalie through trades. if the canucks are going to be offering lou. be ready for burke to be in the run for him regardless of his long contract.

Disclaimer
obviously lots of teams would be interested.
i am not in any way shape or form stating that only the leafs are interested.
i dont evene think lou would be interested in going to TOR.

Edited by - mandree888 on 04/19/2012 07:20:27
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@valanche
Rookie



Canada
240 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2012 :  07:18:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mandree888

given Burkes ties to van. is it to far fetched to see lou come to TOR somehow?

burke did say in his end of season interview he is going to try to gain that number 1 goalie through trades. if the canucks are going to be offering lou. be ready for burke to be in the run for him regardless of his long contract.



personally i don't see it happening. its a case of out of the frying pan into the fire. too much media and still too much pressure to perform.

just curious what you think they could/would give up for a guy like luongo?

66 is > than 99
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1899 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2012 :  07:36:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For Toronto I dont see them being Loungo's next home. It could happen but I dont see it. Loungo would have to commit to a rebuilding team. I dont know if its smart for a rebuilding team to commit to Loungo long term knowing he was played out of position by his backup. Toronto has Reimer and the Monster in the system who could do exactly that. I am not saying either is Loungo caliber, but Loungo is not playing at Loungo caliber.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5799 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2012 :  07:40:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mandree888

given Burkes ties to van. is it to far fetched to see lou come to TOR somehow?

burke did say in his end of season interview he is going to try to gain that number 1 goalie through trades. if the canucks are going to be offering lou. be ready for burke to be in the run for him regardless of his long contract.

Disclaimer
obviously lots of teams would be interested.
i am not in any way shape or form stating that only the leafs are interested.
i dont evene think lou would be interested in going to TOR.




The whole key here would be Luongo agreeing to go there. I don't think for a second they couldn't afford him as i've been pretty vocal that the Canucks asking price simply can't be too extreme if they really wanna get that long contract off their books. So, TO as a destination is possible, but it'd be up to Luongo to decide if he'd wanna play there. The pressure cooker comment is very valid though so unless he wants the challenge to prove to everyone he's as good as the billing, it's unlikely.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1899 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2012 :  07:41:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I didnt know that. Smart play as I thought a goalie as captain was a bad idea. A starting goalie should be a leader, but I always thought a skating player was a better pick for the C. One who, sits on the bench between shifts and communicates with the coach and players in game during the plays.
quote:
Originally posted by Clatts

quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

Well, its official. Schneider announced as the starting goaltender. This far in to the series there is no way to recover Loungo's value after the post season. I am betting the captain makes a trade request in the off season. I know I would. What kind of a position does this put the Canucks in trade value wise.



Henrick Sedin is the Captain of the Canucks not Luongo

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors

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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
388 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2012 :  08:02:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by @valanche
personally i don't see it happening. its a case of out of the frying pan into the fire. too much media and still too much pressure to perform.

just curious what you think they could/would give up for a guy like luongo?

66 is > than 99


if i had to guess.
maybee franson, a second round pick and either scrivens or reimer?


i have no idea i dont think that van wants anything from TOR rofl.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5799 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2012 :  08:04:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mandree888

quote:
Originally posted by @valanche
personally i don't see it happening. its a case of out of the frying pan into the fire. too much media and still too much pressure to perform.

just curious what you think they could/would give up for a guy like luongo?

66 is > than 99


if i had to guess.
maybee franson, a second round pick and either scrivens or reimer?


i have no idea i dont think that van wants anything from TOR rofl.



If i'm the Canucks, i prob take that. Even though they have Lack in the minors, Reimer might be a good guy to battle with him for the backup role?
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
388 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2012 :  08:09:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

For Toronto I dont see them being Loungo's next home. It could happen but I dont see it. Loungo would have to commit to a rebuilding team. I dont know if its smart for a rebuilding team to commit to Loungo long term knowing he was played out of position by his backup. Toronto has Reimer and the Monster in the system who could do exactly that. I am not saying either is Loungo caliber, but Loungo is not playing at Loungo caliber.


the monster will only be resigned if TOR can not find a number 1 goalie. if the get even one more goalie he is gone. reimer will be the back up to who ever they get this year. unless they trade him as well wich would make scrivens the back up.


and now back to the tpoic at hand saying as this a van thread.

yeah alex i think that is as fair as i could go. a decent d man for you guys and a goalie as a bck up that could flourish into a great goalie of the future.

Edited by - mandree888 on 04/19/2012 08:15:54
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3590 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2012 :  08:44:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Regarding the long contract being difficult to move... Luongo has an unusual clause in his contract that allows 2 "escapes" - the first after 5 years, triggered by the player (he can request a trade after the 5th year if he's not happy with the team, and the team would then trade him), and the second triggered by the team after the 7th year (his NTC/NMC would be set aside and the team could trade him anywhere). While the first out clause likely means little to the team, the second out clause would be useful.

So suddenly, the 10 years left on his deal is really only 5 years left before the team could trade him without worry about NTC. This might be very helpful in moving him.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5799 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2012 :  09:38:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

Regarding the long contract being difficult to move... Luongo has an unusual clause in his contract that allows 2 "escapes" - the first after 5 years, triggered by the player (he can request a trade after the 5th year if he's not happy with the team, and the team would then trade him), and the second triggered by the team after the 7th year (his NTC/NMC would be set aside and the team could trade him anywhere). While the first out clause likely means little to the team, the second out clause would be useful.

So suddenly, the 10 years left on his deal is really only 5 years left before the team could trade him without worry about NTC. This might be very helpful in moving him.



That helps the team potentially aquiring him more than it does the Canucks though. Which i guess makes him slightly easier to move? But, the teams, and there will be a limited number which would be a fit for him, will know that if the Canucks resign / keep Schneider, they'll be somewhat desperate to get Luongo's contract off the books!

Look at the other potential option for the Canucks. There's been talk of this "amnesty" stuff with the CBA and the possibility that they'll allow each team to buy out one contract like they did after the lockout. Well, there's been rampant talk that Luongo's is the one the Canucks would use it on. If that's the case, they'd get NOTHING in return. That alone tells me that he will fetch minimal in a trade!

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vandrew87
Top Prospect



Canada
25 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2012 :  15:31:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

Well, its official. Schneider announced as the starting goaltender. This far in to the series there is no way to recover Loungo's value after the post season. I am betting the captain makes a trade request in the off season. I know I would. What kind of a position does this put the Canucks in trade value wise.



Girl 1 has been THE CAPTAIN of the Canucks for the last 3 seasons. AV and the GM thought it was probably too much weight on his shoulders to wear the C and be the best goaltender in the league, and I think they were probably right

"If you can play, You Can Play"
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vandrew87
Top Prospect



Canada
25 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2012 :  15:35:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

For Toronto I dont see them being Loungo's next home. It could happen but I dont see it. Loungo would have to commit to a rebuilding team. I dont know if its smart for a rebuilding team to commit to Loungo long term knowing he was played out of position by his backup. Toronto has Reimer and the Monster in the system who could do exactly that. I am not saying either is Loungo caliber, but Loungo is not playing at Loungo caliber.



Are you kidding? Did you see the first 3 minutes of the first game of the series?!?! Luongo was the only reason it wasn't 3-0 with 59min left in the game. And its consistently been that thru all 4 games of the series. Luongo has been good, Schneider has been great, and Quick has been both of them in 1 body.

And no, Toronto is too much of a pressure cooker. Luongo would melt. But Tampa is going thru a reconstruction period

"If you can play, You Can Play"
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Guest4493
( )

Posted - 04/19/2012 :  16:13:46  Reply with Quote
if we're dumping a problem contract on Tampa (Luongo) then they'll want to dump one of their problems on us (Malone). Luongo is very good but his contract is not attractive. Luongo for Malone and a pick?
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Guest8875
( )

Posted - 04/19/2012 :  16:31:51  Reply with Quote
Luongo and Schnieder have both recieved 64 shots in 2 games each. Lu let in 7 of these while Schneider let in 2. Schnieder is handling the pressure way better then Lu. I understand as a Van fan how u would of not wanted to trade him but if they did they would have extra cap space extra depth. Schnieder would have more experience now and maybe even a cup. I look back at the BOS/Van series last year and the 3 games Van won were by about 1 point where as the games Bos won were by about 6 goals. You guys say why trade your starting goalie at the deadline for something unproven yet u put soooo much hype on Schnieder. My main reason of hate towards Van is Lu and when Schneider is in net I hate them only half as much yet Van gets twice as good. So if u want to talk about proven, then how has Lu been for u? Proven? Ya maybe proven to choke and get pulled multiple times in the playoffs. Sometimes in only 5 min. So ya Lu is proven to be a . Yeah I said it and meant it all. Why? Because I call it like I see it.
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vandrew87
Top Prospect



Canada
25 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2012 :  16:46:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Alex, bleacherreport is heating up! Look at the few articles they've posted in the last couple of hours:

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/bgcC8?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=vancouver-canucks

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1151690-cory-schneider-comes-up-huge-as-canucks-stay-alive-against-kings?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=vancouver-canucks

http://bleacherreport.com/tb/bgcC4?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=vancouver-canucks

Even the local paper is calling it KAPUTZ for Lu and even going so far as to say his next start will be in...you guessed it: TAMPA! Damn we're good on here aren't we

Here's the article: http://bleacherreport.com/tb/bgcC6?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=vancouver-canucks

"If you can play, You Can Play"

Edited by - vandrew87 on 04/19/2012 16:53:14
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Guest5416
( )

Posted - 04/19/2012 :  18:37:55  Reply with Quote
A few things:

The Canucks do play differently in front of Lou. Lou wants to see all shots so the d-men don't move players out of shooting lanes, this would add traffic in Lou's way. They just stand back and watch pucks go in.

With Schnider, he has a wider butterfly and just goes into position. The D-men battle more in front, and in general, it works better - less tipped pucks.

Lou's cap hit is managable at $5.33 mil, the cash is $6.7 mil for 6 years, so still less than a few other goalies. After that, his cash portion is only $1 mil, so easiliy bought out - $4 mil spread over 12 years in nothing.

Tampa Bay is probably the only place that needs a goalie that he will waive his no-trade clause for.

Schnider is a restricted free agent, so he should be cheaper than $5 mil (hopefully $10 mil over 3 years).
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5799 Posts

Posted - 04/19/2012 :  21:52:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest8875

Luongo and Schnieder have both recieved 64 shots in 2 games each. Lu let in 7 of these while Schneider let in 2. Schnieder is handling the pressure way better then Lu. I understand as a Van fan how u would of not wanted to trade him but if they did they would have extra cap space extra depth. Schnieder would have more experience now and maybe even a cup. I look back at the BOS/Van series last year and the 3 games Van won were by about 1 point where as the games Bos won were by about 6 goals. You guys say why trade your starting goalie at the deadline for something unproven yet u put soooo much hype on Schnieder. My main reason of hate towards Van is Lu and when Schneider is in net I hate them only half as much yet Van gets twice as good. So if u want to talk about proven, then how has Lu been for u? Proven? Ya maybe proven to choke and get pulled multiple times in the playoffs. Sometimes in only 5 min. So ya Lu is proven to be a . Yeah I said it and meant it all. Why? Because I call it like I see it.



Sorry guest, but here we go again with the hindsight bit. Can you honestly see ANY team trading their starting goalie at the deadline let alone a team which was in the running, and eventually won, the President's trophy??? Seriously, it's a ludicrous suggestion to bring up now. Sorry, but far, far too convenient. I can handle anyone saying that Schneider should have started game 4 in Boston and maybe even played the rest of the series. That, regardless of whether or not i agree, i can handle. But "should have traded him at the deadline"??? Yeah, and i shoulda picked those darn lotto numbers that were drawn the other night......
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Guest8875
( )

Posted - 04/20/2012 :  12:14:53  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Sorry guest, but here we go again with the hindsight bit. Can you honestly see ANY team trading their starting goalie at the deadline let alone a team which was in the running, and eventually won, the President's trophy??? Seriously, it's a ludicrous suggestion to bring up now. Sorry, but far, far too convenient. I can handle anyone saying that Schneider should have started game 4 in Boston and maybe even played the rest of the series. That, regardless of whether or not i agree, i can handle. But "should have traded him at the deadline"??? Yeah, and i shoulda picked those darn lotto numbers that were drawn the other night......


Maybe not being a Knucks fan made it easy for me to see. I don't know. I noticed Lu s*** the bed with team Canada. Sure he got the Gold medal and I know u have heard it before but look at the team in front of him. He choked up in that game and if you didn't see it then maybe you should get your sight checked. If that wasn't enough for you how about when they played Chicago when the hawks won the cup. I know Vince Vaughn seen it. Lu folds under pressure like an empty wallet. He does it constantly and in the playoffs that is the worst thing to have on your team. Lu however is an excellent regular season goalie but when the pressure is on Lu is not. This is my whole point. So if your goal is to simply make it to the playoffs then go ahead and keep him. However if your grabbing the Presidents Trophy 2 years in a row and just making the playoffs simply is not good enough then why would you want Lu? If I myself were a Knucks fan then I would be choked at the GM. Look at how he has let the prussure build. Look how Schneider is bringing it down. To me the risk is well worth it. Even if they brought in Schnieder last year after trading Lu and then lost without making it to game 7 of the finals I would be happier a fan then now. Why, because the building blocks are there. And they are building blocks not stepping stones as is Lu. You have said it yourself, the future is bright for Schneider. So in turn wouldn`t that make the future for Van bright as well...
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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2012 :  15:01:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest8875

quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Sorry guest, but here we go again with the hindsight bit. Can you honestly see ANY team trading their starting goalie at the deadline let alone a team which was in the running, and eventually won, the President's trophy??? Seriously, it's a ludicrous suggestion to bring up now. Sorry, but far, far too convenient. I can handle anyone saying that Schneider should have started game 4 in Boston and maybe even played the rest of the series. That, regardless of whether or not i agree, i can handle. But "should have traded him at the deadline"??? Yeah, and i shoulda picked those darn lotto numbers that were drawn the other night......


Maybe not being a Knucks fan made it easy for me to see. I don't know. I noticed Lu s*** the bed with team Canada. Sure he got the Gold medal and I know u have heard it before but look at the team in front of him. He choked up in that game and if you didn't see it then maybe you should get your sight checked. If that wasn't enough for you how about when they played Chicago when the hawks won the cup. I know Vince Vaughn seen it. Lu folds under pressure like an empty wallet. He does it constantly and in the playoffs that is the worst thing to have on your team. Lu however is an excellent regular season goalie but when the pressure is on Lu is not. This is my whole point. So if your goal is to simply make it to the playoffs then go ahead and keep him. However if your grabbing the Presidents Trophy 2 years in a row and just making the playoffs simply is not good enough then why would you want Lu? If I myself were a Knucks fan then I would be choked at the GM. Look at how he has let the prussure build. Look how Schneider is bringing it down. To me the risk is well worth it. Even if they brought in Schnieder last year after trading Lu and then lost without making it to game 7 of the finals I would be happier a fan then now. Why, because the building blocks are there. And they are building blocks not stepping stones as is Lu. You have said it yourself, the future is bright for Schneider. So in turn wouldn`t that make the future for Van bright as well...



Guest, you talked alot but didn't answer the main question. " Can you honestly see ANY team trading their starting goalie at the deadline let alone a team which was in the running, and eventually won, the President's trophy??? ".

No GM would ever do this, if you are in the playoff race you don't trade your starting goalie, no ifs, ands or buts. I don't care that Schnider has a good future or that Luongo folds under pressure none of that matters.

I agree with you that trading Luongo would have gotten Van some nice pieces and they might be a better team today but they were a favourite to win the stanley cup so why would the sacrifice that for future considerations.

And please don't tell me Schnider is just as good because at the time he was the back-up and unproven. Would you bet your job that schinder would take Van deep in the playoffs last year?

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5799 Posts

Posted - 04/20/2012 :  16:29:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Okay, while apparently i'm blind for not seeing what Luongo did at the Olympics as "s***ting the bed", i do see your point about his struggles in the playoffs. Yes, he was bad in that Vince Vaughn viewed Chicago series of 2010 but i'm amazed at how much he gets blamed for the Cup loss. He played the majority of the games to get them there, including game 7 vs Chi in round one where he made one of his finest saves of his career on P. Sharp in OT (never gets any credit there), the Canucks gave him (and Schneider) a grand total of 8 goals in 7 games (not a lot of support), he was talked about as a Conn Smythe candidate had they won, played well in both the Nash and SJ series', etc. Also, is it fair that you're blaming two president's trophy wins and no cups on him? First off, they haven't failed just yet in their quest this year (maybe talk to me next week) and secondly, Luongo played very well in his two appearances thus far this year. Say what you want, but no one i've heard is blaming him for the first two games of the series.

I'll say it again, i hope the Canucks keep Schneider and find a way to move Luongo. BUT, there's just no way they could / would or should have traded him at last years deadline. It's a ridiculous argument.
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Guest8875
( )

Posted - 04/21/2012 :  19:52:35  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Clatts

Guest, you talked alot but didn't answer the main question. " Can you honestly see ANY team trading their starting goalie at the deadline let alone a team which was in the running, and eventually won, the President's trophy??? ".
No GM would ever do this, if you are in the playoff race you don't trade your starting goalie, no ifs, ands or buts. I don't care that Schnider has a good future or that Luongo folds under pressure none of that matters.

I agree with you that trading Luongo would have gotten Van some nice pieces and they might be a better team today but they were a favourite to win the stanley cup so why would the sacrifice that for future considerations.

And please don't tell me Schnider is just as good because at the time he was the back-up and unproven. Would you bet your job that schinder would take Van deep in the playoffs last year?
"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors


1- To answer your question, Yes.
2- Folding under pressure makes and breaks champions. How is it that this does not matter??
3- I never said Shneider is just as good as Schneider, however I will go on record right now to say that he is better.
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Guest8875
( )

Posted - 04/21/2012 :  20:00:11  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

Okay, while apparently i'm blind for not seeing what Luongo did at the Olympics as "s***ting the bed", i do see your point about his struggles in the playoffs. Yes, he was bad in that Vince Vaughn viewed Chicago series of 2010 but i'm amazed at how much he gets blamed for the Cup loss. He played the majority of the games to get them there, including game 7 vs Chi in round one where he made one of his finest saves of his career on P. Sharp in OT (never gets any credit there), the Canucks gave him (and Schneider) a grand total of 8 goals in 7 games (not a lot of support), he was talked about as a Conn Smythe candidate had they won, played well in both the Nash and SJ series', etc. Also, is it fair that you're blaming two president's trophy wins and no cups on him? First off, they haven't failed just yet in their quest this year (maybe talk to me next week) and secondly, Luongo played very well in his two appearances thus far this year. Say what you want, but no one i've heard is blaming him for the first two games of the series.
I'll say it again, i hope the Canucks keep Schneider and find a way to move Luongo. BUT, there's just no way they could / would or should have traded him at last years deadline. It's a ridiculous argument.


1&2- I'm not blaming it (losing the playoff's last year or the first 2 games this year) solely on him, winning is a team effort. I am clearly stating how he folds too often under pressure.

Too both Alex and Clatts:
Playing rookies in the Playoffs is not a bad thing just cause they are not playoff proven. Example's include Philly, they have multiple rookies helping out against the Pens. As for goalies, how about Holtby on Washington. He is doing it huge right now.
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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2012 :  20:56:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest8875

quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

Okay, while apparently i'm blind for not seeing what Luongo did at the Olympics as "s***ting the bed", i do see your point about his struggles in the playoffs. Yes, he was bad in that Vince Vaughn viewed Chicago series of 2010 but i'm amazed at how much he gets blamed for the Cup loss. He played the majority of the games to get them there, including game 7 vs Chi in round one where he made one of his finest saves of his career on P. Sharp in OT (never gets any credit there), the Canucks gave him (and Schneider) a grand total of 8 goals in 7 games (not a lot of support), he was talked about as a Conn Smythe candidate had they won, played well in both the Nash and SJ series', etc. Also, is it fair that you're blaming two president's trophy wins and no cups on him? First off, they haven't failed just yet in their quest this year (maybe talk to me next week) and secondly, Luongo played very well in his two appearances thus far this year. Say what you want, but no one i've heard is blaming him for the first two games of the series.
I'll say it again, i hope the Canucks keep Schneider and find a way to move Luongo. BUT, there's just no way they could / would or should have traded him at last years deadline. It's a ridiculous argument.


1&2- I'm not blaming it (losing the playoff's last year or the first 2 games this year) solely on him, winning is a team effort. I am clearly stating how he folds too often under pressure.

Too both Alex and Clatts:
Playing rookies in the Playoffs is not a bad thing just cause they are not playoff proven. Example's include Philly, they have multiple rookies helping out against the Pens. As for goalies, how about Holtby on Washington. He is doing it huge right now.



If you would trade your starting goalie at the deadline when your a favourite to win the cup you wouldn't last long as a GM

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors
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Guest8875
( )

Posted - 04/21/2012 :  21:44:38  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Clatts

quote:
Originally posted by Guest8875

quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

Okay, while apparently i'm blind for not seeing what Luongo did at the Olympics as "s***ting the bed", i do see your point about his struggles in the playoffs. Yes, he was bad in that Vince Vaughn viewed Chicago series of 2010 but i'm amazed at how much he gets blamed for the Cup loss. He played the majority of the games to get them there, including game 7 vs Chi in round one where he made one of his finest saves of his career on P. Sharp in OT (never gets any credit there), the Canucks gave him (and Schneider) a grand total of 8 goals in 7 games (not a lot of support), he was talked about as a Conn Smythe candidate had they won, played well in both the Nash and SJ series', etc. Also, is it fair that you're blaming two president's trophy wins and no cups on him? First off, they haven't failed just yet in their quest this year (maybe talk to me next week) and secondly, Luongo played very well in his two appearances thus far this year. Say what you want, but no one i've heard is blaming him for the first two games of the series.
I'll say it again, i hope the Canucks keep Schneider and find a way to move Luongo. BUT, there's just no way they could / would or should have traded him at last years deadline. It's a ridiculous argument.


1&2- I'm not blaming it (losing the playoff's last year or the first 2 games this year) solely on him, winning is a team effort. I am clearly stating how he folds too often under pressure.

Too both Alex and Clatts:
Playing rookies in the Playoffs is not a bad thing just cause they are not playoff proven. Example's include Philly, they have multiple rookies helping out against the Pens. As for goalies, how about Holtby on Washington. He is doing it huge right now.



If you would trade your starting goalie at the deadline when your a favourite to win the cup you wouldn't last long as a GM

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors



Not if my team won the cup and then continued to win the cup.
Is a GM supposed to build a team that wins the cup or is a Gm supposed to build a team that wins multiple cups? Obviously u can't see too far down the road. Thanks for comin out.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5799 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2012 :  21:45:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
8875...... If there was any way i could poll all 30 GM's (and even the past 50), i'd be willing to bet you as much as i could afford (actually, as much as YOU could afford ) that NONE would actually say "Yeah, they should have, and i would have traded Luongo at last years deadline". Wait, i take that back. I think Milbury would have been one of the past 50 and with some of the crap he did, ya just never know. I'd have to modify it to exclude him!

I just can't get over the fact that he was 1 win away from being a Stanley Cup Champion, and you think they should have traded him. OH WAIT! He choked in game 7, right? That one where the Canucks scored 0 goals! Yeah, he choked. Oh wait, didn't you say:
quote:
Originally posted by Guest8875
I'm not blaming it (losing the playoff's last year or the first 2 games this year) solely on him, winning is a team effort.




They should have traded him at the deadline last year! Unbelievable!

Edited by - Alex116 on 04/21/2012 21:46:57
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Guest8875
( )

Posted - 04/21/2012 :  22:32:03  Reply with Quote
Hey I walk a different path!
Luongo games won were by 1 goal.
Luongo games lost were by 7, 4, 3 and then 4 points.
Game 1: 1-0 Van
Game 2: 3-2 in O.T. Van
Game 3: 8-1 B's
Game 4: 4-0 B's
Game 5: 1-0 Van
Game 6: 5-2 B's
Game 7: 4-0 B's

Thought I would type it out so u can see. Or is looking in the past something u knucks are no good at either? Luongo is not consistent enough to win a series. A game he may steal but a series is 7 games. A GM should know these things. I say keeping him was more of a gamble then trading him and letting schneider take the #1 role. A GM in that position might take some heat at first and may even get fired but the future for Van would be better and the GM would get a job with another team.
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