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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2012 :  23:01:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest8875

Hey I walk a different path!
Luongo games won were by 1 goal.
Luongo games lost were by 7, 4, 3 and then 4 points.
Game 1: 1-0 Van
Game 2: 3-2 in O.T. Van
Game 3: 8-1 B's
Game 4: 4-0 B's
Game 5: 1-0 Van
Game 6: 5-2 B's
Game 7: 4-0 B's

Thought I would type it out so u can see. Or is looking in the past something u knucks are no good at either? Luongo is not consistent enough to win a series. A game he may steal but a series is 7 games. A GM should know these things. I say keeping him was more of a gamble then trading him and letting schneider take the #1 role. A GM in that position might take some heat at first and may even get fired but the future for Van would be better and the GM would get a job with another team.



You can put up stats all you want, its all hindsight. You walk a different path alright.

If thats really your opinion and your not just being hard headed because you said something outrageous and are too proud to say you were wrong then you can't be argued with, your 1 of kind, I don't think you could find anyone else that knows anything about hockey that would back your opinion.

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors
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foolpittier
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
373 Posts

Posted - 04/22/2012 :  10:03:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i'd like to see him as a wing, but he'd have to play for free.
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Guest8875
( )

Posted - 04/22/2012 :  10:10:33  Reply with Quote
clatts you ignore the facts, maybe if your team earned multiple cups u would understand. Like I said earlier it's about multiple cups not one. How much must he faulter for u to understand. He will be lucky to ever touch the cup ONCE.
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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 04/22/2012 :  15:42:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest8875

clatts you ignore the facts, maybe if your team earned multiple cups u would understand. Like I said earlier it's about multiple cups not one. How much must he faulter for u to understand. He will be lucky to ever touch the cup ONCE.



My team? I hate the Canucks.

Facts? That are all in hindsight, and are weak anyways.

Show me some FACTS that would have pointed you to trade Luongo at the DEADLINE LAST YEAR. Oh wait you can't.

I can't argue your opinion, I just think it's an unpopular one that if your were a GM would get you fired. This is not NHL12 on Playstation, some decisions can be career ending



"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5696 Posts

Posted - 04/22/2012 :  16:14:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest8875

clatts you ignore the facts, maybe if your team earned multiple cups u would understand. Like I said earlier it's about multiple cups not one. How much must he faulter for u to understand. He will be lucky to ever touch the cup ONCE.



THAT, is where you're wrong! First off, if the Canucks had won the cup last year (remember how close they were now before you go off on another tangent) with Luongo in net, why couldn't they win "multiple cups"??? Second, in this day and age of free agency, salary cap, etc, it's extremely difficult to win "multiple cups". I will go on record as guaranteeing you that MIKE GILLIS would have been considered a frickin' hero, a god, the greatest human alive, etc if the Canucks had won the cup last year! Same goes this year, next year or as long as he's running the show! This CUP STARVED market would not care about multiple cups if we could just get that first one!

I have to say too that if your theory of trading Luongo at LAST YEAR'S deadline had ANY merit whatsoever, we'd have read about it or heard about it from a credible source, not just from you (no offense meant there either).

If Clatt's is sticking up for ANYTHING Canuck (or "knucks" as you prefer), you know you're off base!
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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 04/22/2012 :  17:24:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good point Alex, Vancouver should worry about getting their first cup before they start looking at a multi cup run

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors
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Guest8875
( )

Posted - 04/22/2012 :  20:01:00  Reply with Quote
My multiple cup remark towards clatts, the calgary flames fan. You know the team with one cup. The team that got that first one. I gave you numerous facts on why Lu should get traded Clatts. You refuse them and remain ignorant towards them. As I said before Lu will be Lucky to touch the Cup ONCE. I doubt he will ever even do that. So if your Alex and just craving that one, then I feel you are hoping on the wrong guy. Thats how I feel and if you disagree then go ahead and disagree but the fact remains on all the stats and reasons I gave you. That is why I would of traded him. It would have worked out better down the road. Deny it all you want but you know it is true.
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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 04/22/2012 :  21:40:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest8875

My multiple cup remark towards clatts, the calgary flames fan. You know the team with one cup. The team that got that first one. I gave you numerous facts on why Lu should get traded Clatts. You refuse them and remain ignorant towards them. As I said before Lu will be Lucky to touch the Cup ONCE. I doubt he will ever even do that. So if your Alex and just craving that one, then I feel you are hoping on the wrong guy. Thats how I feel and if you disagree then go ahead and disagree but the fact remains on all the stats and reasons I gave you. That is why I would of traded him. It would have worked out better down the road. Deny it all you want but you know it is true.



No, I refuse to let you lie. Your have not given one STAT or example that was PRE-TRADE DEADLINE DAY LAST YEAR.

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5696 Posts

Posted - 04/22/2012 :  21:51:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest8875
So if your Alex and just craving that one, then I feel you are hoping on the wrong guy. Thats how I feel and if you disagree then go ahead and disagree but the fact remains on all the stats and reasons I gave you. That is why I would of traded him. It would have worked out better down the road. Deny it all you want but you know it is true.



You crack me up dude. Because of the stats and the reasons YOU gave me, i'm to believe that Luongo will never win the cup? Lol. The only part of that that could be correct is that he may never win it. BUT, it's got nothing to do with any stats or reasons you speak of. I'll give you this, he did struggle at times last year in the playoffs. Does that mean he will always? Please don't tell me i have to give you examples of guys who struggled in the playoffs earlier in their career and then hosted the cup later? "Deny it all you want but you know it's true"??? Lol, i'm actually laughing out loud right now. My wife just asked me what's up as she didn't think i could conjure up a laugh tonight after the Canucks were eliminated!

I'm gonna bow out of this ridiculous debate now, unless of course you can answer to one request and one question:

1. Supply me with ANY credible source where someone, other than you seeing as i said credible, says the same thing (The Canucks should have traded Luongo at last years deadline).

AND.....and this one's really good......

2. What do you think the chances are that Roberto Luongo would have waived his NO TRADE CLAUSE at last year's deadline.

Lemme help you, don't waste too much time on #1 cuz you won't find anyone. And #2, the answer is a very low number, kinda shaped like a circle, but a little more oblong.....
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Lunchbox
Top Prospect



Canada
88 Posts

Posted - 04/22/2012 :  22:26:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, I certainly don't know where Luongo will end up this off season, but I think the Canucks were smart to play Schneider, as his value only went up due to his play against the Kings. Sure they lost the game, but he was stellar through his time in net.

I think the possibility of Luongo getting traded really depends on the offers the Canucks get for Schneider as well.

By the way, Im too lazy to look it up, but can Canuck fans tell me if Schneider is a restricted free agent this summer? What are the possibilities of an offer sheet? A lot of teams need a goalie, and the Canucks would be hard pressed to match and stay under the cap. ...Is this a possibility thats been discussed in Vancouver circles?

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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2012 :  00:17:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lunchbox

Well, I certainly don't know where Luongo will end up this off season, but I think the Canucks were smart to play Schneider, as his value only went up due to his play against the Kings. Sure they lost the game, but he was stellar through his time in net.

I think the possibility of Luongo getting traded really depends on the offers the Canucks get for Schneider as well.

By the way, Im too lazy to look it up, but can Canuck fans tell me if Schneider is a restricted free agent this summer? What are the possibilities of an offer sheet? A lot of teams need a goalie, and the Canucks would be hard pressed to match and stay under the cap. ...Is this a possibility thats been discussed in Vancouver circles?





Schneider is an RFA at the end of the season, Canucks cap is maxed out as we speak however Pahlsson,Raymond, Salo plus a few smaller contracts come off the books this offseason,.

All told it's about 10million in cap space they will have to play with. My opinion is unless they get an offer from a team like Edmonton or CBJ where they would be getting picks that they would assume would be in the lottery then they will match whatever offer comes Scheiders way and then choose to either trade him or convince Luongo to move his no trade and then convince a team to take his contracts.

Or they could match keep both and put out a worse team in front of them. I'm not sure what Vancouver's farm looks like.

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5696 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2012 :  11:42:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Clatts is correct, he's an RFA. I think it's going to depend on Roberto Luongo's decision as to what he wants to do and whether or not he's willing to move. I believe the Canucks will do everything possible to keep Schneider and move Luongo, but Luongo holds the cards sotospeak with his NTC. Catch is, he's likely only going to give them 2 or 3 teams he'd be willing to move to. THEN, one of those teams has to want him, and be willing to take on his contract!

One thing i have to say is that Luongo shows incredible professionalism in handling the recent situation here which saw him lose his starting gig at the most important time of the season. No matter what happens going forward, he gains a lot of respect league wide i'm sure for the way he dealt with a very tough spot to be thrown into. Sure, he's a millionaire, etc, but these guys all have egos and his must have taken a beating with the way things turned out.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8154 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2012 :  11:55:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is a crazy idea.

What about Toronto??? They need a legit starting goalie and have assets they can afford to move with salaries in the ball park.

To Toronto: Luongo
To Vancouver: Phaneuf and Reimer

TO gets their goalie and Vancouver gets a legit offensive defensemen with enough size to not get knocked around. Reimer would be a great back up to Schneider.

Just spitballin'.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5696 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2012 :  12:10:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Someone mentioned TO before, just the other day in fact (maybe Mandree?). Question is, would Luongo want to go to a rebuilding team, or is he going to want to go to a team that's maybe a bit closer to a cup chance, say TB? Again, TB and Florida are the easiest cuz of his ties to Florida, but it's safe to say that the Lightning are prob a step or two ahead of TO in the cup chase, no? Also, would Luongo want to go from the pressure cooker / goalie graveyard of Vancouver, into the absolute couldn't be more pressure to perform arena of Toronto? Maybe he would? As for return, if i were GM, i'd take it as i've stated over and over again, i don't think the Canucks can command much back for him.
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
334 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2012 :  12:14:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Here is a crazy idea.

What about Toronto??? They need a legit starting goalie and have assets they can afford to move with salaries in the ball park.

To Toronto: Luongo
To Vancouver: Phaneuf and Reimer

TO gets their goalie and Vancouver gets a legit offensive defensemen with enough size to not get knocked around. Reimer would be a great back up to Schneider.

Just spitballin'.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!


lol beans i already suggested this... lol
i was actually thinking franson a 2nd round pick and either scrivens or reimer.

i dont think that van would take phaneuf his cap hit is too high and is a pylon........
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1855 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2012 :  12:26:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not only would Van take Phaneuf, his monster shot and physicality he brings, but I'd say another player/draft picks would be too much. Phaneuf may be a player who consistantly plays out of position due to his lining up checks, but Vancouver has enough stay at home defenseman and good enough team defense/goaltending to take this drawback.

I still dont think Loungo would go to another team which figures out of the playoff's year after year. Figure him for Tampa which IMO would be in the playoff's, had they had a regular season steady goalie such as Loungo. Not to mention they have the trade bait to sway the Canucks.
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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2012 :  12:37:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

Not only would Van take Phaneuf, his monster shot and physicality he brings, but I'd say another player/draft picks would be too much. Phaneuf may be a player who consistantly plays out of position due to his lining up checks, but Vancouver has enough stay at home defenseman and good enough team defense/goaltending to take this drawback.

I still dont think Loungo would go to another team which figures out of the playoff's year after year. Figure him for Tampa which IMO would be in the playoff's, had they had a regular season steady goalie such as Loungo. Not to mention they have the trade bait to sway the Canucks.



Phaneuf is brutal, I understand he gets big hits but he seems unaware that he plays defence. it's besides the point as Luongo will not waive his NTC to go to T.O.

I agree TB is a front runner, I also saw him in Washington (But Holtby appears to be for real) or the Panthers. Edmonton could show interest however I think when your moving a big name you do it out of conference ( and I doubt Luongo would waive his NTC to go there)

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors
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Guest5957
( )

Posted - 04/23/2012 :  12:38:41  Reply with Quote
Luongo to TO for TO's first round pick for the next 27 seasons. That sounds like something Burke might negotiate.

Seriously, Toronto has been suffering inconsistent goal tending for years. Bringing in another inconsistent goalie does neither the Leafs nor Luongo any good. If the idea is to get Luongo out from under the microscope, TO is not the place for him to go. That would end his career. Same would apply to a move to MTL.

TB or FLA are the most logical destinations if he were to move.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1855 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2012 :  12:43:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Phaneufs playing out of position is not a 100% rule and the rest of his game can be amazing. If he hit the net more he'd have more goals than most defenseman with that monster shot he has. When not lining up a hit or joining the offensive rush he does have a defensive aspect to his game. He is just not primarily a defensive shut down type d-man. Not all defenseman are.
quote:
Originally posted by Clatts

quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

Not only would Van take Phaneuf, his monster shot and physicality he brings, but I'd say another player/draft picks would be too much. Phaneuf may be a player who consistantly plays out of position due to his lining up checks, but Vancouver has enough stay at home defenseman and good enough team defense/goaltending to take this drawback.

I still dont think Loungo would go to another team which figures out of the playoff's year after year. Figure him for Tampa which IMO would be in the playoff's, had they had a regular season steady goalie such as Loungo. Not to mention they have the trade bait to sway the Canucks.



Phaneuf is brutal, I understand he gets big hits but he seems unaware that he plays defence. it's besides the point as Luongo will not waive his NTC to go to T.O.

I agree TB is a front runner, I also saw him in Washington (But Holtby appears to be for real) or the Panthers. Edmonton could show interest however I think when your moving a big name you do it out of conference ( and I doubt Luongo would waive his NTC to go there)

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors

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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2012 :  12:45:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest5957

Luongo to TO for TO's first round pick for the next 27 seasons. That sounds like something Burke might negotiate.

Seriously, Toronto has been suffering inconsistent goal tending for years. Bringing in another inconsistent goalie does neither the Leafs nor Luongo any good. If the idea is to get Luongo out from under the microscope, TO is not the place for him to go. That would end his career. Same would apply to a move to MTL.

TB or FLA are the most logical destinations if he were to move.



I agree T.O. is not an ideal situation for Luongo, Toronto would be very fortunate to have him. He is a huge upgrade on Reimer

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8154 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2012 :  13:50:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The reason I said Phaneuf in the deal is twofold. Firstly, the size, speed, and stink that Phaneuf brings would be a welcome addition to the Vancouver defensive corp. It would provide Bieksa some support as the resident tough guy on the back end and his shot from the point would be a plus for the powerplay. Secondly, his salary is comparable to Luongo and if there is going to be a trade, money will be a factor.

I really am not going to get tied up in this debate. I said my piece. One thing is for certain that I would suggest most can agree with. That is:

If Vancouver trades Luongo and loses, there will be hell to pay.

and

If Vancouver does not trade Luongo and loses, there will be hell to pay.

It's a tough situation for Schneider and one that can quickly ruin a goalie. But Vancouver are no strangers to ruining goalies, are they........

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5696 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2012 :  14:04:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest5957

Seriously, Toronto has been suffering inconsistent goal tending for years. Bringing in another inconsistent goalie does neither the Leafs nor Luongo any good.





I have to disagree. The stats prove that Luongo has been one of, if not THE most consistent goalie over the past 8-10 years. Yes, he's struggled at times in the playoffs, but he also came awfully close to winning a Stanley Cup ring that he could have put beside the Gold Medal he won from the Olympics. I'll prob get rained on for this and called a Lu-Lover, but truth is, i'm far from his biggest fan and hope the Canucks move forward with Schneider. I just don't know how anyone can consider him inconsistent with all he's done including multiple Vezina nominations!

Still don't think he'd necessarily wanna go to TO, but then again, he's got an ego and maybe he'd agree to go there to try to prove the naysayers wrong???
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vandrew87
Top Prospect



Canada
25 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2012 :  14:19:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Clatts

Good point Alex, Vancouver should worry about getting their first cup before they start looking at a multi cup run



Exactly. I would guaranteed trade at least one of my nuts for a cup. And you could probably talk me into giving up both...

"If you can play, You Can Play"
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5696 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2012 :  15:54:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Back to the Luongo trade......a great point was brought up on the radio today. There are likely to be an abundance of good goalies available this summer. With Holtby doing as well as he is in Wash, it's likely that Vokoun could be available. Kipper may finally be set free? There were others named that i don't have off the top of my head, but it could work against the Canucks in trying to deal Luongo? It will be interesting to keep an eye on, that's for sure.....
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vandrew87
Top Prospect



Canada
25 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2012 :  16:07:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well would you look at that. After all of this, Luongo is apparently 100% willing to get out of Vancouver. He wants to be traded by the sound of it. Willing to trade his no-movement clause, AND willing to "get out of the way of the goalie that is going to dominate the league for the next 10, 12, 15 years".

Direct quote in the link:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=629476

"If you can play, You Can Play"
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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2012 :  16:13:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

Back to the Luongo trade......a great point was brought up on the radio today. There are likely to be an abundance of good goalies available this summer. With Holtby doing as well as he is in Wash, it's likely that Vokoun could be available. Kipper may finally be set free? There were others named that i don't have off the top of my head, but it could work against the Canucks in trying to deal Luongo? It will be interesting to keep an eye on, that's for sure.....



Kipper may be set free? are you implying that Kipper does not like playing in Calgary? Or are you saying he is too good to play for Calgary?

Either way I don't see Calgary getting rid of Kipper unless they go full rebuild, and from everything I've heard they are not.

And by all accounts Kipper loves playing in Calgary

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5696 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2012 :  16:30:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Clatts, i was just re-iterating what i heard on the radio and the guy (can't recall who it was) mentioned Kipper possibly being available? I don't think he is asking out by any means, but if they do go the rebuild route (which is what he was implying i guess?) he may become available?

I think his whole premiss was that not just UFA goalies would be available. There should be some other who will inevitably be shopped around. In his opinion, Kipper might be one?

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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2012 :  16:46:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Okay I see. In that respect yea, it should be a healthy market for goalies this offseason. Which could work in Vancouvers favour in that Schneider valve will be lower, but could hinder their chances of moving Luongo.

Here are some UFA's

Brodeur
Vokoun
Gustavsson
Hedberg
Clemmensen
Roloson
Harding
Biron
Sanford
Montoya
Mason, Chris
Turco
Ellis

And som RFA's

Price
Rask
Pavelec
Koskinen
Schneider
Lack

With that is anyone talking about Boston being in a similar situation as Vancouver?

I guess Rolston is coming of the books at a hit of 5m+, they could just give some of that to keep Rask happy till Tomas retires



"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors
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vandrew87
Top Prospect



Canada
25 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2012 :  18:18:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Best article yet about the whole situation?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1156711-nhl-playoffs-2012-should-cory-schneider-be-the-canucks-goalie-next-year

"If you can play, You Can Play"
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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2012 :  18:34:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would like to say in regards to the "Luongo situation" I have never seen such disrespect from a fan base to a Star goalie. Do Canuck fans forget what their goaltending was like before Luongo arrived?

Alex Auld
Johan Hedberg
Dany Sabourin
Dan Cloutier

I liken what Luongo has done in Vancouver to what Kipper has done in Calgary. Played well, been the best player at times. Got the team within one game of the cup and lost.

There just doesn't seem to be the same hate for Kipper as there is for Luongo, actually there seems to be no hate as we appreciate having a Star goalie

I guess what im trying to say is even if Luongo stays and Schneider moves on Van fans could do themselves a service and get behind your Star goalie give him some support and confidence and he may surprise you with what he can do

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5696 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2012 :  18:45:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Vandrew....great article, thanks!

Clatts, i couldn't agree more. I'm one of very few of my friends / family who've always been on board with Luongo as a good goalie. Winning the gold medal and coming within a goal of the Cup on a team that scored 8 goals for in 7 games convinced me enough that he's capable of being a champion. Believe it or not, it's not just Canuck haters who fail to see these two things as many Canuck fans fail as well and say "Canada won in spite of Luongo" and "the Canucks made the final in spite of Luongo". I think part of the problem for Roberto was in fact the emergence of Schneider! Had they dealt him a few years ago and no one was performing like he has in his limited role, more fans prob would have appreciated Luongo for what he is/was!
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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2012 :  20:03:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

Vandrew....great article, thanks!

Clatts, i couldn't agree more. I'm one of very few of my friends / family who've always been on board with Luongo as a good goalie. Winning the gold medal and coming within a goal of the Cup on a team that scored 8 goals for in 7 games convinced me enough that he's capable of being a champion. Believe it or not, it's not just Canuck haters who fail to see these two things as many Canuck fans fail as well and say "Canada won in spite of Luongo" and "the Canucks made the final in spite of Luongo". I think part of the problem for Roberto was in fact the emergence of Schneider! Had they dealt him a few years ago and no one was performing like he has in his limited role, more fans prob would have appreciated Luongo for what he is/was!




For sure, it's the underdog story everyone has fallen in love with, no offence to Schneider but the hate for Luongo stems from the love for Schneider and people wanting to see the underdog prevail over the the obstacle in his path, in this case Luongo.

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3563 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2012 :  20:36:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Clatts

I would like to say in regards to the "Luongo situation" I have never seen such disrespect from a fan base to a Star goalie. Do Canuck fans forget what their goaltending was like before Luongo arrived?

Alex Auld
Johan Hedberg
Dany Sabourin
Dan Cloutier

I liken what Luongo has done in Vancouver to what Kipper has done in Calgary. Played well, been the best player at times. Got the team within one game of the cup and lost.

There just doesn't seem to be the same hate for Kipper as there is for Luongo, actually there seems to be no hate as we appreciate having a Star goalie

I guess what im trying to say is even if Luongo stays and Schneider moves on Van fans could do themselves a service and get behind your Star goalie give him some support and confidence and he may surprise you with what he can do

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors



clatts, there is actually very little disrespect towards Luongo in this regard. Sure, there are all kinds of news stories, and everyone has an opinion, but the reality is that Luongo is well liked in this town, and regarded as a good goaltender, certainly the best in recent memory that VAN has had. No one can doubt what he has done for the franchise.

However, the stark fact is, he has been outplayed by a younger, cheaper goaltender with (arguably) a brighter future, and the Canucks can only keep one of them. I don't think it is disrespectful to speculate on what the team may or may not do with either one of them - hockey is a business and a decision has to be made. They both know it, the team knows it, and the fans know it.

In fairness, your comparison to Kipper is accurate, except CGY never had that's stellar backup that pushed him for his job. Had one been there, you might have seen a different attitude towards Kipper when he struggled.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5696 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2012 :  21:35:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
nuxfan....i agree with most of your post, esp the part about Calgary and Kipper with no one pushing him. But, and it's like Clatts said, it's a result of how good Schneider has been, the past couple years, i've noticed many Canuck fans (friends, family, callers to Team 1040, etc) complaining about Luongo's play, and this is in back to back Presidents Trophy seasons!!! Why didn't they complain about him before that? Because there was no other option.

I do think that even the "haters" would admit he's the best we've had though, however most of them would prob add "but not for long cuz Schneider will be eventually".
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vandrew87
Top Prospect



Canada
25 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2012 :  21:46:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan



clatts, there is actually very little disrespect towards Luongo in this regard. Sure, there are all kinds of news stories, and everyone has an opinion, but the reality is that Luongo is well liked in this town, and regarded as a good goaltender, certainly the best in recent memory that VAN has had. No one can doubt what he has done for the franchise.

However, the stark fact is, he has been outplayed by a younger, cheaper goaltender with (arguably) a brighter future, and the Canucks can only keep one of them. I don't think it is disrespectful to speculate on what the team may or may not do with either one of them - hockey is a business and a decision has to be made. They both know it, the team knows it, and the fans know it.

In fairness, your comparison to Kipper is accurate, except CGY never had that's stellar backup that pushed him for his job. Had one been there, you might have seen a different attitude towards Kipper when he struggled.



Here's the thing tho, in Vancouver the fans have been on him for a long time before that unfortunate game 7 in June of last year. Every time he has a slow start to the season, (which is always...October is dreadful for him), the fans have thrown in the towel on the season. That's what I hate about Vancouver fans. When things are great, they're the biggest fans of all time. When they're sh!t, they don't care about hockey. And when they find someone at fault, they deal the entire blame on him.

Which is why I think Luongo will be excellent in Tampa. Because he can just preform and not be constantly bashed whenever he lets in a weak goal. Move him to Tampa, and I think you'll see him go back to the numbers he was posting 6 years ago when he first joined Van.

He doesn't get nearly enough credit for being the fantastic goalie he really is. And sadly Vancouver fans have ruined another could-have-been Hall of Famer.

"If you can play, You Can Play"
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3563 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2012 :  22:22:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by vandrew87

Here's the thing tho, in Vancouver the fans have been on him for a long time before that unfortunate game 7 in June of last year. Every time he has a slow start to the season, (which is always...October is dreadful for him), the fans have thrown in the towel on the season. That's what I hate about Vancouver fans. When things are great, they're the biggest fans of all time. When they're sh!t, they don't care about hockey. And when they find someone at fault, they deal the entire blame on him.

Which is why I think Luongo will be excellent in Tampa. Because he can just preform and not be constantly bashed whenever he lets in a weak goal. Move him to Tampa, and I think you'll see him go back to the numbers he was posting 6 years ago when he first joined Van.

He doesn't get nearly enough credit for being the fantastic goalie he really is. And sadly Vancouver fans have ruined another could-have-been Hall of Famer.

"If you can play, You Can Play"



Luongo gets plenty of credit in Vancouver - but its a big town, and everyone has an opinion. We're like any big hockey market, the players get scrutinized heavily, and when they go through bad stretches, the pressure is on. I don't think that Vancouver is any different than any other Canadian hockey market.

This situation is somewhat similar to the goaltending battle that went on in MTL a couple of years ago. Price has a bad year, Halak takes over and leads them deep into the playoffs. Both are RFA, and MTL cannot afford to keep both - they had no choice but to trade one of their good goalies. Whatever decision they make is going to be unpopular with some fans, it happens. But the Candiens have a business to run, and they did what they could for the team. It is no different here.
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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 04/25/2012 :  05:10:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

quote:
Originally posted by vandrew87

Here's the thing tho, in Vancouver the fans have been on him for a long time before that unfortunate game 7 in June of last year. Every time he has a slow start to the season, (which is always...October is dreadful for him), the fans have thrown in the towel on the season. That's what I hate about Vancouver fans. When things are great, they're the biggest fans of all time. When they're sh!t, they don't care about hockey. And when they find someone at fault, they deal the entire blame on him.

Which is why I think Luongo will be excellent in Tampa. Because he can just preform and not be constantly bashed whenever he lets in a weak goal. Move him to Tampa, and I think you'll see him go back to the numbers he was posting 6 years ago when he first joined Van.

He doesn't get nearly enough credit for being the fantastic goalie he really is. And sadly Vancouver fans have ruined another could-have-been Hall of Famer.

"If you can play, You Can Play"



Luongo gets plenty of credit in Vancouver - but its a big town, and everyone has an opinion. We're like any big hockey market, the players get scrutinized heavily, and when they go through bad stretches, the pressure is on. I don't think that Vancouver is any different than any other Canadian hockey market.

This situation is somewhat similar to the goaltending battle that went on in MTL a couple of years ago. Price has a bad year, Halak takes over and leads them deep into the playoffs. Both are RFA, and MTL cannot afford to keep both - they had no choice but to trade one of their good goalies. Whatever decision they make is going to be unpopular with some fans, it happens. But the Candiens have a business to run, and they did what they could for the team. It is no different here.



I agree with you on the MTL thing except for a couple things, Schneider never brought you deep, in fact he hasn't won anything. And I didn't feel like just because Halak was performing well that the fan base begun to hate on Price. I could be wrong, it could just be media hype.

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors
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Guest2643
( )

Posted - 04/25/2012 :  12:11:50  Reply with Quote
Ultimately the Canucks don't score enough in the playoffs (read: IN THE PLAYOFFS). They have the luxury of having two great assets in net and if you can move one to secure an option that A: allows offensive players more time to play offence
OR
B: get someone who can perform in the playoffs.
then you make that trade. They are not afraid to make trades to address issues. The Hodgson for Kassian trade is a perfect example.

They can score in bunches in the regular season but easy goals are not easy in the playoffs. You need to score ugly goals and the Canucks have not had enough consistency in this. Their first round loss to LA did not stem from goaltending, it stemmed from a lack of offence (Quick's quickness didn't hurt). But they scored 2, 2, 0, and 1 in losses. Tough to win when you don't score.

Also if Luongo is traded (seems like he wants to make that an option) he will likely go to TBay. Florida has Markstrom, who by all accounts should be their guy in a few years. TBay tried Tokarski this year in limited action and he didn't exactly shine (870 something save percentage I think).
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3563 Posts

Posted - 04/25/2012 :  13:01:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2643

Ultimately the Canucks don't score enough in the playoffs (read: IN THE PLAYOFFS). They have the luxury of having two great assets in net and if you can move one to secure an option that A: allows offensive players more time to play offence
OR
B: get someone who can perform in the playoffs.
then you make that trade. They are not afraid to make trades to address issues. The Hodgson for Kassian trade is a perfect example.

They can score in bunches in the regular season but easy goals are not easy in the playoffs. You need to score ugly goals and the Canucks have not had enough consistency in this. Their first round loss to LA did not stem from goaltending, it stemmed from a lack of offence (Quick's quickness didn't hurt). But they scored 2, 2, 0, and 1 in losses. Tough to win when you don't score.

Also if Luongo is traded (seems like he wants to make that an option) he will likely go to TBay. Florida has Markstrom, who by all accounts should be their guy in a few years. TBay tried Tokarski this year in limited action and he didn't exactly shine (870 something save percentage I think).



Well thats odd - because by my count the hapless Canucks managed to score 50 goals in their first 3 rounds last season, for an average of 2.7 goals per game for.

The only series where they have had trouble scoring is in last year's finals (against the eventual Vezina trophy winner and Conn Smythe winner) - and this year's first round (against a Vezina nominee). One might argue that the opposing goaltenders had something to do with their inability to score.

Edited by - nuxfan on 04/25/2012 13:02:14
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5696 Posts

Posted - 04/25/2012 :  13:09:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Some good stuff on Luongo and a possible trade in this article, along with a bunch of other interesting stuff regarding other teams / players.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2012/04/luongo-trade-talk-30-thoughts.html

Most interesting part i read though was this......."There were some reports the Canucks can block a potential offer sheet for Schneider by offering him arbitration just after the Stanley Cup final (Nashville did this last season with Shea Weber). Don't believe that is true. Because Schneider earned less than $1.5 million, no action can be taken before July 5. If he and the team cannot get something signed beforehand, he will be exposed for a few days."

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