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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5800 Posts

Posted - 04/25/2012 :  13:18:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
And on the humorous side..... http://blogs.theprovince.com/2012/04/25/roberto-luongo-gives-list-of-concerns-to-four-teams-read-their-responses/

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vandrew87
Top Prospect



Canada
25 Posts

Posted - 04/25/2012 :  21:04:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

And on the humorous side..... http://blogs.theprovince.com/2012/04/25/roberto-luongo-gives-list-of-concerns-to-four-teams-read-their-responses/





PRICELESS!!!

"If you can play, You Can Play"
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Guest2643
( )

Posted - 04/26/2012 :  06:50:27  Reply with Quote
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Guest2643

Ultimately the Canucks don't score enough in the playoffs (read: IN THE PLAYOFFS). They have the luxury of having two great assets in net and if you can move one to secure an option that A: allows offensive players more time to play offence
OR
B: get someone who can perform in the playoffs.
then you make that trade. They are not afraid to make trades to address issues. The Hodgson for Kassian trade is a perfect example.

They can score in bunches in the regular season but easy goals are not easy in the playoffs. You need to score ugly goals and the Canucks have not had enough consistency in this. Their first round loss to LA did not stem from goaltending, it stemmed from a lack of offence (Quick's quickness didn't hurt). But they scored 2, 2, 0, and 1 in losses. Tough to win when you don't score.

Also if Luongo is traded (seems like he wants to make that an option) he will likely go to TBay. Florida has Markstrom, who by all accounts should be their guy in a few years. TBay tried Tokarski this year in limited action and he didn't exactly shine (870 something save percentage I think).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Well thats odd - because by my count the hapless Canucks managed to score 50 goals in their first 3 rounds last season, for an average of 2.7 goals per game for.

The only series where they have had trouble scoring is in last year's finals (against the eventual Vezina trophy winner and Conn Smythe winner) - and this year's first round (against a Vezina nominee). One might argue that the opposing goaltenders had something to do with their inability to score.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - nuxfan on 04/25/2012 13:02:14

Whatever was I thinking posting an opinion that went against Vancouver.....it's so easy to see flaws in others but it's not so easy to see flaws in ourselves.
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
390 Posts

Posted - 04/26/2012 :  08:35:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
yikes canucks this could be a big lose no?
http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/van120425.html

possibly losing kessler?? (or bieska if fox is in the mix .... lol)

Edited by - mandree888 on 04/26/2012 08:38:13
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3592 Posts

Posted - 04/26/2012 :  10:54:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
don't get excited - in the last few days I've seen stories speculating about nearly every Canuck player getting moved this summer, except the Sedin's.

The Sedin's and Kesler form the backbone of the offense, and they'd have to have an exceptional (ie, non-hockey) reason for trading him. I don't think he wants out, and with a full summer of rest and rehab on his hip he should be back to the old Kesler again next year.

That being said, if they did decide to move him, I think he would command a very good return...

Edited by - nuxfan on 04/26/2012 10:57:35
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3592 Posts

Posted - 04/26/2012 :  10:56:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest2643

Whatever was I thinking posting an opinion that went against Vancouver.....it's so easy to see flaws in others but it's not so easy to see flaws in ourselves.




You posted an opinion about a team's general ability to perform based on the outcome of 5 games - and you didn't even give the other team credit for being able to hold the Canucks off the scoresheet.

Trust me, I see plenty of flaws in the Canucks. But general ability to score is not one of them.

Edited by - nuxfan on 04/26/2012 10:57:09
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5800 Posts

Posted - 04/26/2012 :  11:01:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Sedin's are def going nowhere, BUT, i wouldn't be totally shocked if Kelser was moved. I don't think it will happen, but i also don't think i'd be blown away if he were in fact moved. It's tough as fans to know the truth all the time, but there has been rumours about Kes and AV not getting along all the time. If AV stays, which is uncertain but it looks as though he might, and there is any sort of riff between he and Kesler, it's possible they'd entertain moving him. He did play the entire season either hurt or recovering from an injury he prob rushed back from, but he also took a step back in his on ice actions / persona. He was more like he was two seasons ago before the team "had a talk" with him and Burrows. This could be partially due to frustrations in regards to his health and lack of production, but if he's going to stay with the team, he's going to have to be taken aside and spoken to once again!

He was embarrassing at times, especially during the playoffs.
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Guest9644
( )

Posted - 04/26/2012 :  14:37:29  Reply with Quote
Canucks should be willing to trade Luongo for a bag of pucks. What is the minimum return for a trade to be accepted? A sixth or seventh round draft pick?

If I'm Vancouver I snap accept the minimum and get rid of one of the worst contracts in NHL history. I would then laugh at the team that has to pay that greasy Italian for another decade of slightly above average regular season goal-tending, followed by inevitable heartbreak and choking in the post-season. Obviously if I can get some value back I do, but the important thing is getting that contract off the books.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5800 Posts

Posted - 04/26/2012 :  15:02:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9644

Canucks should be willing to trade Luongo for a bag of pucks. What is the minimum return for a trade to be accepted? A sixth or seventh round draft pick?

If I'm Vancouver I snap accept the minimum and get rid of one of the worst contracts in NHL history. I would then laugh at the team that has to pay that greasy Italian for another decade of slightly above average regular season goal-tending, followed by inevitable heartbreak and choking in the post-season. Obviously if I can get some value back I do, but the important thing is getting that contract off the books.



This is simply not "one of the worst contracts in NHL history"! It's not like he's performing like Scott Gomez for crying out loud! He immediately improves many teams, some like TO and TBay likely enough to make them playoff teams! You, obviously are not a fan of Luongo, and that's fine. Many like you, just won't accept what he's accomplished as "enough" for what he makes i guess? A gold medal and making the final game of a SCF is pretty impressive if you ask me. I don't see anyone criticizing Kipper, Lundqvist, etc for never winning a cup? Sure, Luongo might have had better teams around him the past 2 years, but did the team help him out any? 8 goals in 7 SCF games? Uh, i'd say not, so to throw it back at a goalie is just crazy!

Those who say Canada won the gold "in spite of Luongo" are just as crazy. He had a 1.76 GAA and a .927 save %. In case you missed it, he was in net when they won the gold medal game, in his own city, that went to overtime (no pressure there eh?). To say Canada won "in spite of him" is to say that any goalie could have been in net. Funny, a guy named Brodeur lost his job to him, AND Team Canada didn't exactly blow the competition away either. A bad goal here or there could have easily killed the team's chances at gold.

Of course, i guess the "greasey italian" comment was prob enough for me to figure what you'd think of anything to do with him. I suppose i should have just stopped reading at that point and not bothered responding......
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Cyclonis
Top Prospect



Canada
56 Posts

Posted - 04/26/2012 :  16:01:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Roberto is a great goalie that has become a scapegoat for the Canucks not performing well in the playoffs. I thought he played well this year too and he still got replaced in net! Yes I know they went to the 7th game last year...

BUT! When Van lost to the Bruins last year, someone had to take the blame, and it is easier to rip on your goalie than look at the 0 next to your team's name on the scoreboard.

No doubt Lou will move on and play well for someone else. I doubt Van wants to see him backstopping a divisional opponent or even a team in the same conference so...an Eastern team makes sense for a trade. TB seems most likely due to the older tending they have from Roli.

It will be interesting to see what happens during a mediocre year in Vancouver. I wonder how long Schneider has before the lustre wears off being the shiny new goalie in Vancouver.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3592 Posts

Posted - 04/26/2012 :  16:11:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cyclonis
I thought he played well this year too and he still got replaced in net!



That alone should confirm just how good and how promising Schneider is as a goalie. Its not like Luongo played badly during the year, he had another solid year stats-wise and wins-wise. Yet he was effectively outplayed for the starting role. I think he will be a pretty steady goaltender next year - I'm not expecting miracles, but I don't think he'll suddenly suck either.

Apparently Kypreos has confirmed that Luongo has officially asked to be traded, so at this point any speculation regarding which goalie will move is over - it will be Luongo, and it will probably happen soon. Still waiting for his list of teams, and no doubt TB will be near the top. Who knows who the others will be.

I had heard an interesting tidbit from a friend who knows someone in the Canucks organization (or closely tied to the organization), that indicated Luongo's wife is at least partly behind the trade demand. She wants to move back to Florida, and is pretty adamant about it - apparently has not been in Vancouver for weeks now. Take it for the rumour that it is, but if so it would put FLA or TB extremely high on the list of destinations for Lu.

Edited by - nuxfan on 04/26/2012 16:11:45
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5800 Posts

Posted - 04/26/2012 :  16:23:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
I had heard an interesting tidbit from a friend who knows someone in the Canucks organization (or closely tied to the organization), that indicated Luongo's wife is at least partly behind the trade demand. She wants to move back to Florida, and is pretty adamant about it - apparently has not been in Vancouver for weeks now. Take it for the rumour that it is, but if so it would put FLA or TB extremely high on the list of destinations for Lu.



I don't think i mentioned this before, but i might have and while not wanting to be a total rumour guy here's what i heard, and this is about 2-3 weeks ago, maybe even a month (back to late season when he struggled a bit)? Again, this is a rumour i heard through the grapevine and the link is that the guy who reported it, works for the organization, but is not in a high profile place, nor directly invovled with the players, so take it for what it's worth (which could be absolutely nothing!).
Rumour is, his wife caught him "fooling around" with another woman. Now, whether or not that's a full on affair, a "puck bunny" on the road, a full on Tiger Woods sexcapade or just a simple flirt with a female fan or reported, i have no idea. Again, it's prob not even true. The report/rumour was that his wife had already left him to return "home" to Florida?

Prob nothing to this, and it's why i didn't bring it up before (that i recall?) but the wife having "not been in Vancouver for weeks" bit got me thinking? Hmmmm.....
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vandrew87
Top Prospect



Canada
25 Posts

Posted - 04/26/2012 :  17:05:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mandree888

yikes canucks this could be a big lose no?
http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/van120425.html

possibly losing kessler?? (or bieska if fox is in the mix .... lol)



Not going to happen. Kesler fits the type of player that Gillis is trying to trade for, the type of player that they think they can develop Kassian into. Just hopefully Kassian doesn't dive as much

"If you can play, You Can Play"
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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 04/26/2012 :  17:35:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9644

Canucks should be willing to trade Luongo for a bag of pucks. What is the minimum return for a trade to be accepted? A sixth or seventh round draft pick?

If I'm Vancouver I snap accept the minimum and get rid of one of the worst contracts in NHL history. I would then laugh at the team that has to pay that greasy Italian for another decade of slightly above average regular season goal-tending, followed by inevitable heartbreak and choking in the post-season. Obviously if I can get some value back I do, but the important thing is getting that contract off the books.



Worst contract in NHL history? Have you not heard of Rick Dipietro? Seriously! I would even argue the Kovalchuck's contract is worse...17 years for someone who has never been out of the 1st round.

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8186 Posts

Posted - 04/26/2012 :  19:04:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
I had heard an interesting tidbit from a friend who knows someone in the Canucks organization (or closely tied to the organization), that indicated Luongo's wife is at least partly behind the trade demand. She wants to move back to Florida, and is pretty adamant about it - apparently has not been in Vancouver for weeks now. Take it for the rumour that it is, but if so it would put FLA or TB extremely high on the list of destinations for Lu.




I don't think i mentioned this before, but i might have and while not wanting to be a total rumour guy here's what i heard, and this is about 2-3 weeks ago, maybe even a month (back to late season when he struggled a bit)? Again, this is a rumour i heard through the grapevine and the link is that the guy who reported it, works for the organization, but is not in a high profile place, nor directly invovled with the players, so take it for what it's worth (which could be absolutely nothing!).
Rumour is, his wife caught him "fooling around" with another woman. Now, whether or not that's a full on affair, a "puck bunny" on the road, a full on Tiger Woods sexcapade or just a simple flirt with a female fan or reported, i have no idea. Again, it's prob not even true. The report/rumour was that his wife had already left him to return "home" to Florida?

Prob nothing to this, and it's why i didn't bring it up before (that i recall?) but the wife having "not been in Vancouver for weeks" bit got me thinking? Hmmmm.....




I means this with no disrespect in the world as it is a likely story,

but.........

When was the last time a big name player who is married and in the middle of a potential trade situation that was not fooling around on his wife or who's wife was not sleeping around on him with another member of the team?? Lindros slept with everyone and their dog. Comrie slept with Salo's wife. Pronger got a TV news reporter pregnant. Doug Weight was spreading herpes around Edmonton. Glen Anderson was gay and hitting on team mates.

Maybe it's just an Edmonton thing but nearly ever big name player that left here has some kind of sexual tie to something or someone else.

Rumors fly at times like these.


Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 04/26/2012 :  19:22:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hockey players like getting laid? you don't say!

btw I remeber when Lindros slept with my dog

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5800 Posts

Posted - 04/26/2012 :  19:36:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans, i agree, though i have to say, i heard this back in March following that 9 game stretch when he lost 6, and as far as i'm concerned 7, as he gave up 3 in the first 5 mins to Buffalo before being pulled (Schneider ended up taking the loss). He gave up 27 goals in those 9 games or 8 games +5 mins and wasn't playing very well at all. I didn't bring it up then and was reluctant to now as i have no proof to it and while i don't think it's beyond belief, i don't necessarily believe it! I would think this would be leaked somehow, but it is incredible just how much stuff goes on like this that you either don't hear about, or you don't until years later.

Nuxfan's comment about Luongo's wife being in Fla already spurned me to mention it, true or not.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3592 Posts

Posted - 04/26/2012 :  21:33:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Nuxfan's comment about Luongo's wife being in Fla already spurned me to mention it, true or not.



To be clear, I didn't hear anything about Luongo cheating... just that his wife was sick of the Vancouver weather in the winter. If you grew up in Florida you'd probably have a tough time living here in the winter too...

Gina's dislike for Vancouver winters has been an ongoing story in Vancouver since Luongo got here.

Edited by - nuxfan on 04/26/2012 21:34:16
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5800 Posts

Posted - 04/26/2012 :  22:19:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
nuxfan, likewise, to be clear, i wasn't implying you said that, it was my rumour! Get your own
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hockeyfan
Top Prospect



Canada
2 Posts

Posted - 04/27/2012 :  04:30:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Send LUONGO to Montreal...since he's from there and send PRICE to Vancouver which is his hometown...
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1041 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2012 :  19:45:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Don`t know where Luongo is going, but he is going somewhere, you can bet your last dollar on that....no way he stays in Van. after they ditched him during the playoffs. Van, sent Luongo a message and he is sending them 1 back ....get me the hell out of here.....nothing to do with fooling around or his wife wants this or that....nonsense

Bottom line, Van. treated him like s**t during the most important run of their season and he wants out... and i don`t blame him....you don`t take a stallion to the race track and not race him.

I hope Tor. ends up with him. This guy has something to prove now and which ever team gets him may receive a gem with a new out - look on life in goal after the way he was treated during this years playoffs.

People who are told that they are not good enough ( which is the message Van. sent to Luongo ) more often than not come back with a vengance.....ask Tim Thomas....i think Luongo will shine next season, where ever he goes.

As for people talking about his contract of 10 years...so !!....Luongo`s contract can be brought out after 6 years at minimal cost to a team with deep pockets....

The way his contract is constructed, a team in reality are only taking on a 6 year deal with an annual cap hit of around 5 and a quarter million per season.....This is very reasonable in todays NHL for a world class goalie, in my opinion....Luongo will be 39 years old at this point in his career....

After watching this years playoffs, would you rather have Luongo`s cap hit ??...( 5.3 m ) Marc.a Fleury`s ??...( over 6 m i think ) or I. Bryz`s ??...( approx 5 . 8 M )

At another site some leaf fans wrote that if Burke trades for Luongo, fans should walk out of the air Canada center.....what do they want ?? another season of inconsistency with Reimer and the monster ??....some leaf fans are so stupid, they wonder why other fans make fun of them.

This is the first time Toronto has a shot at a real goalie since Belfour in 2004 and they still whine....


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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
266 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2012 :  21:22:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Don`t know where Luongo is going, but he is going somewhere, you can bet your last dollar on that....no way he stays in Van. after they ditched him during the playoffs. Van, sent Luongo a message and he is sending them 1 back ....get me the hell out of here.....nothing to do with fooling around or his wife wants this or that....nonsense

Bottom line, Van. treated him like s**t during the most important run of their season and he wants out... and i don`t blame him....you don`t take a stallion to the race track and not race him.

I hope Tor. ends up with him. This guy has something to prove now and which ever team gets him may receive a gem with a new out - look on life in goal after the way he was treated during this years playoffs.

People who are told that they are not good enough ( which is the message Van. sent to Luongo ) more often than not come back with a vengance.....ask Tim Thomas....i think Luongo will shine next season, where ever he goes.

As for people talking about his contract of 10 years...so !!....Luongo`s contract can be brought out after 6 years at minimal cost to a team with deep pockets....

The way his contract is constructed, a team in reality are only taking on a 6 year deal with an annual cap hit of around 5 and a quarter million per season.....This is very reasonable in todays NHL for a world class goalie, in my opinion....Luongo will be 39 years old at this point in his career....

After watching this years playoffs, would you rather have Luongo`s cap hit ??...( 5.3 m ) Marc.a Fleury`s ??...( over 6 m i think ) or I. Bryz`s ??...( approx 5 . 8 M )

At another site some leaf fans wrote that if Burke trades for Luongo, fans should walk out of the air Canada center.....what do they want ?? another season of inconsistency with Reimer and the monster ??....some leaf fans are so stupid, they wonder why other fans make fun of them.

This is the first time Toronto has a shot at a real goalie since Belfour in 2004 and they still whine....






M.A. Fleury's cap hit is 5M over the next 3 seasons.

Bryzy is 5.66 over the next 9

I'd take Fleury over Luongo or Bryzy based on Contract and the fact that he has a Cup ring.

I don't think any of these goalies should be written off due to their 1st round performances

"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors
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Cyclonis
Top Prospect



Canada
56 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2012 :  10:18:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I suspect the weather in Florida is better than Van's. Maybe Roberto's wife just needs some sun?

I think what people are missing is there was no pressure on Schneider last year, NONE, he was a backup. How will he perform night in and night out without the rest he is accustomed to as the second string tender? This guy is really still un-tested isn't he? Do you keep Lou for a season as the backup if you don't get a good deal for him to be sure Schnieder is going to work out?

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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5800 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2012 :  10:56:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Don`t know where Luongo is going, but he is going somewhere, you can bet your last dollar on that....no way he stays in Van. after they ditched him during the playoffs. Van, sent Luongo a message and he is sending them 1 back ....get me the hell out of here.....nothing to do with fooling around or his wife wants this or that....nonsense

I don't think anyone's saying that the wife is the reason he wants out Duke. It's pretty obvious that Luongo wouldn't be interested in being a backup or even in a shared goalie tandem. That, would be the reason he'd be willing to waive his NTC.


quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
Bottom line, Van. treated him like s**t during the most important run of their season and he wants out... and i don`t blame him....you don`t take a stallion to the race track and not race him.



That's an interesting way to look at it. Vancouver "treated him like s**t"? I don't see it that way, but i guess you do? What i saw was a GM who gave his coach full reign over lineup decision making and a coach, who prob saw his job on the line, choose the goalie he figured at the time to be the one to give his team the best chance at winning.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3592 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2012 :  10:58:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cyclonis

I think what people are missing is there was no pressure on Schneider last year, NONE, he was a backup. How will he perform night in and night out without the rest he is accustomed to as the second string tender? This guy is really still un-tested isn't he? Do you keep Lou for a season as the backup if you don't get a good deal for him to be sure Schnieder is going to work out?




In his first year, that was the case, but the Canucks made a point of playing Schneider in some very important games last year, for exactly that reason. Schneids started the biggest game of the year vs BOS, a big game vs CHI near the end of January, amongst others - he did very well in them all. Not to mention 3 games in the playoffs where his team was against the ropes. I am no longer worried about Schneider performing under pressure in big games.

The only thing that we haven't seen is how he'll perform starting 50-60 games per season - which is really the only risk IMO with Schneider. The Canucks are taking a gamble in this regard, but Gillis obviously thinks the rewards outweigh the risks. We'll know for sure next year.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3592 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2012 :  11:01:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
Bottom line, Van. treated him like s**t during the most important run of their season and he wants out... and i don`t blame him....you don`t take a stallion to the race track and not race him.



No more than TOR treated Reimer like s**t when they kept starting Monster even after Reimer was back and healthy...

As a coach, you play your best players to win games. Schneider, for large parts of the season and playoffs, was the better goalie for VAN, and got played accordingly.
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Guest7852
( )

Posted - 04/30/2012 :  12:23:33  Reply with Quote
schneider lost as many p/o games a Lou this year.

I think they played relatively equal, problem was they couldn't score

It appears that the fans no longer want Lou in Van City and management is going to make that happen
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1041 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2012 :  17:53:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Alex 116 and nuxfan...i didn`t say Luongo deserved those starts over Cory .S....as a coach i would have started Cory . S too..i really would have.

When i said Van. treated Luongo like s**t..... i meant that Luongo was brought to Van. to ...be the man...win the stanley cup...

When you put someone in this position ( a player who also back - stopped Canada to olympic gold )and then replace him in MONSTER TYPE games with his backup...

What kind of message are you sending him ??...are you not killing his ego ??...Destroying his image ??.....this is what i meant by Van. treating him like s**t.

As for comparing this situation to Reimer and Gust in Toronto...come - on !!!...neither of these goalies have done anything in their lives to even be mentioned in the same sentence with Luongo...thats silly

Who cares who starts between Reimer and Gust ??

Now a backup starting over a world class goalie like Luongo...thats a diffrent story....thats newsworthy. Not saying Cory . S ain`t as good as Luongo but still..diffrent circumstances.

Maybe Burke can bring Cory . S to Toronto.....not likely
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3592 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2012 :  22:03:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
When you put someone in this position ( a player who also back - stopped Canada to olympic gold )and then replace him in MONSTER TYPE games with his backup...

What kind of message are you sending him ??...are you not killing his ego ??...Destroying his image ??.....this is what i meant by Van. treating him like s**t.



You are sending 2 messages:

1. You think you have a better chance of winning with Schneider
2. As a team, you are ready to accept the consequences of that decision.

Duke, its pretty simple - the Canucks decided (likely at some point in the late stages of the season) that Schneider had outplayed Luongo enough over the last 2 years that they were ready to make a change if Luongo did not get it done in the playoffs. Luongo did not get it done, they went with Schneider, and here we are. As good as Luongo is, he has been outplayed pretty much all year long, in all kinds of pressure situations. The Canucks have been forced to make a decision now because Schneider is an RFA, and they cannot afford to keep them both.

Vancouver did not treat Luongo like crap - they did what any team that makes a goaltending decision does. Whether those goalies are Reimer/Gustavsson, or Luongo/Schneider, its the same decision. Even if your incumbent is an Olympic champion and an excellent goalie, you still make the decision that is best for your team.

All the talk about Luongo, I think there is something that consistently gets overlooked here - SCHNEIDER IS A REALLY GOOD GOALIE. The Canucks management did not just make a knee-jerk reaction and decide to go with Schneids after 3 playoff games. The guy was drafted by VAN, has been in the system for 8 years, and the full time backup for the last 2 and a half years. He had an excellent career with the Moose in the AHL, and he has started 60+ games over the last 2 years in varying situations, and has been *consistently* very good. I think its safe to say that management has gotten a really good look at the guy.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5800 Posts

Posted - 07/14/2012 :  10:49:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Interesting bit from the World Series of Poker where Luongo made a comment to the player next to him about a possible return to Florida. Take it for what it's worth as it could just be Lu speaking from a position whereby that's his "want" or could this meeting / dinner with the owner of the Panthers actually have happened AND gone well???

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/14/luongo-admits-he-might-be-a-panther-soon-during-world-series-of-poker/


Interestingly, i keep hearing that the Blackhawks are one of the more seriously interested teams as far as aquiring Luongo goes, though most online articles i read kinda counter that? Whether or not it's just rumour is one thing, but it sure would be ironic to see him in a Hawks jersey skating to his crease at GM Place in the playoffs vs the Canucks! Just when you think that rivalry can't get any more bitter / better, that happens? How crazy would that be???

Only thing i can think of crazier would be Dave Bolland being a part of the deal and coming to the Canucks. Lol, he'd prob be forced to retire.......

Edited by - Alex116 on 07/14/2012 10:53:34
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slozo
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Canada
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Posted - 07/15/2012 :  07:49:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, from a Leaf perspective, we'd be more than happy to take that sieve Luongo off your hands, Vancouver. He is so terrible, he just might make us an instant playoff team!

I don't get some of you Vancouver fans. You will really, REALLY miss Luongo when he leaves, mark my words. Schneider is totally unproven as a starter when he HAS to be the man, starting all games, with no proven back-up behind him. It is a totally different scenario, and one that hols an immense amount of mental pressure. Not saying he can't do it - I don't know - but the road to being a solid starting goalie is littered with the carcasses of once promising elite goaltenders who are now in the minors, or career back-ups.

Luongo and his wife just have to get over the fact that Florida and Tampa Bay don't want him/need him, and he needs to expand his (his wife's) list.

Btw, I've never seen a photo of Luongo's wife . . . she must be damn hot to have this much influence on his career decisions. I need pics!

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3592 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2012 :  09:37:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

Well, from a Leaf perspective, we'd be more than happy to take that sieve Luongo off your hands, Vancouver. He is so terrible, he just might make us an instant playoff team!

I don't get some of you Vancouver fans. You will really, REALLY miss Luongo when he leaves, mark my words. Schneider is totally unproven as a starter when he HAS to be the man, starting all games, with no proven back-up behind him. It is a totally different scenario, and one that hols an immense amount of mental pressure. Not saying he can't do it - I don't know - but the road to being a solid starting goalie is littered with the carcasses of once promising elite goaltenders who are now in the minors, or career back-ups.




You don't get us because your team is not blessed with 2 very good starting goaltenders - its a good problem to have, however at the end of the day VAN can only keep one of them. So, they end up getting rid of one good goaltender, what do you do?

Slozo, I know you don't see many VAN games, and probably less when Schneider is starting. Schneider is the real deal, there is very little doubt that his next step is to be a starting goalie in the NHL. He has been "the man" when he's needed to be, and has played reasonably long stretches in goal over the last 2 years when Luongo was struggling or was injured (ask yourself, how did the backup manage to get in 30 games a season with a starter like Luongo), and has started many big games. He's positionally sound, calm under pressure, and is not the same emotional headcase that Luongo has shown himself to be. He lets in goals, but he doesn't seem to let in that one bad goal. The team plays better in front of him.

There is certainly risk to this move, I'll give you that. Schneider may collapse under pressure, or become the next Jose Theodore/Cristobal Huet/Steve Mason/etc, and trading away a proven starting goaltender when your team is in its window of opportunity is hard. That being said, Schneider is a goalie that the team drafted and developed over the last 6 or 7 years into what he is now. He's risen through the ranks of the AHL, to the NHL. He's been the backup for 2 seasons, starting 60 games in a variety of pressure situations. Its fair to say that management has had a long look at the guy, and decided that he has what it takes.

Something tells me that had Schneider been made available, there would have been 10 or 15 teams interested in trading for him - probably with Burke at the front of the line. Teams don't do that for simple backup goalies.

Edited by - nuxfan on 07/15/2012 09:38:41
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Beans15
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Canada
8186 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2012 :  14:49:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Teams do that for potential Nuxfan. That is exactly what Schneider has. I am not saying he will flop but I can't say he won't after only 60 NHL games. You might also want to add the point that Schneider's games are mostly against the weaker side of the NHL. Luongo went against the best in the league and Schnieder was given the nights off.

I tend to agree with Slozo on this one. Firstly, we haven't seen Schnieder play an entire season as the man. Secondly, how tight does a guy play without an elite guy ready to take over if needed.

I think Schnieder is in a now win situation. If Vancouver does anything other than win the Cup next year, Luonog leaving will be criticized heavily. Rightly or wrongly, that will happen. Maybe not by the true Canuck fans but definitely the masses. I believe that is who Slozo was eluding to in his comments.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3592 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2012 :  17:26:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Teams do that for potential Nuxfan. That is exactly what Schneider has. I am not saying he will flop but I can't say he won't after only 60 NHL games. You might also want to add the point that Schneider's games are mostly against the weaker side of the NHL. Luongo went against the best in the league and Schnieder was given the nights off.

I tend to agree with Slozo on this one. Firstly, we haven't seen Schnieder play an entire season as the man. Secondly, how tight does a guy play without an elite guy ready to take over if needed.

I think Schnieder is in a now win situation. If Vancouver does anything other than win the Cup next year, Luonog leaving will be criticized heavily. Rightly or wrongly, that will happen. Maybe not by the true Canuck fans but definitely the masses. I believe that is who Slozo was eluding to in his comments.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!



When you're the Canucks, most of your opposition is "the weaker side of the NHL" .

Schneider got his share of strong opponent games last year. Its difficult to measure for sure because teams move up and down the rankings all year, but overall, he started 11 games against teams that eventually made it to the playoffs, and 3 of 5 playoff games. Some highlight games for him last year:

- Oct 13 vs DET - lost 2-0, but faced 37 shots, in what was (at the time) a possible conference final matchup

- Nov 16 vs CHI - lost 5-1, clearly not his best outing, but was given the game

- Nov 26 vs SJ - a 3-2 OT win in one of his best outings last year, pretty much stole the game with a 43 save performance against a pretty hated rival and strong team

- Jan 7 vs BOS - in THE biggest game on the Canucks calendar, in Boston no less, Schneider stopped 35 of 37, and was extraordinarily calm in an otherwise wild game.

- Jan 31 vs CHI - always big games, stopped 37 of 39 in a 3-2 win

- April 15-22 - the 3 biggest games of the Canucks season when all the pressure was on, despite losing 2 of them he allowed 4 GA and had a ridiculous .960 SV.

These are not small games, and in the case of the BOS and CHI games, these are games that default to your #1, and there was a fair amount of surprise at the time towards the goaltending choice.

I guess we'll all have a better idea of how things are going this time next year, and at that time MG will either be a hero or a goat (or something in between). I agree that having Luongo behind him might allow him to play a looser game (perhaps Luongo started feeling the same way about Schneids as the season went on), and as with other backups-turned-to-starters, we haven't seen him play a full season yet - risk is clearly there.

Regarding fan sentiment - unless we lose next year directly because of Schneider, or Luongo wins the cup with his new team, I doubt that anyone will second-guess this trade above others. There is widespread belief (at least in the local press and via people I talk to about hockey) that Schneider has simply earned the spot over the last 2 years, and has potential that far exceeds that of Luongo at this point in time. Further, like a hangover that hits the day after a happy bender, local fans suddenly don't see the wisdom in a 12 year contract for any player (even if the cap hit is favourable), never mind one that doesn't really get going until 6 weeks into the season and cannot always be counted on in crunch situations. Hockey fans here are generally knowledgeable, and its understood that business decisions need to be made, and this is viewed as a good long-term business decision for the Canucks.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5800 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2012 :  21:56:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

Well, from a Leaf perspective, we'd be more than happy to take that sieve Luongo off your hands, Vancouver. He is so terrible, he just might make us an instant playoff team!

I don't get some of you Vancouver fans. You will really, REALLY miss Luongo when he leaves, mark my words. Schneider is totally unproven as a starter when he HAS to be the man, starting all games, with no proven back-up behind him. It is a totally different scenario, and one that hols an immense amount of mental pressure. Not saying he can't do it - I don't know - but the road to being a solid starting goalie is littered with the carcasses of once promising elite goaltenders who are now in the minors, or career back-ups.

Luongo and his wife just have to get over the fact that Florida and Tampa Bay don't want him/need him, and he needs to expand his (his wife's) list.

Btw, I've never seen a photo of Luongo's wife . . . she must be damn hot to have this much influence on his career decisions. I need pics!

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



First the important stuff........ http://www.playerwives.com/?s=luongo&.x=11&.y=6

Enjoy sifting through that site. Be sure to check out the golfers section and marvel at some of the hotties that those extremely avg dudes (with a ton of money) have!!!

As for the Canucks goalie situation, i could really care less what ANY fan thinks a year or two or five from now, even if Schneider turns out to be the next Jim Carey or Andrew Raycroft. UNLESS, of course it's someone who right now says they should be keeping Luongo. There are very few people on this planet who if they were in charge of the Canucks, wouldn't be doing exactly what the Canucks are trying to do, and that is, move Luongo. It's not even the contract or the fact they've lost their faith in him, it's the fact they've got a guy who they feel will be as good or better and for less money. Let's face it, if it wasn't for Schneider's emergence, or had they traded him 3 years ago when the talk first started about doing so, they Canucks wouldn't be trying to deal Luongo at all right now!!!

As far as Schneider taking on the starters roll, absolutely there's a chance he could flop. But there's also a chance that Luongo totally loses his game and completely sucks next year. NOTHING is a given. But, with the way that the Canucks have brought Schneider along and groomed him for this roll, you have to think he's more prepared than some of the young guys who get the job handed to them at age 20. What i find funny is there are many guys out there claiming that Holtby this the next coming of Dominik Hasek or Patrick Roy after his short successful stint yet these same clowns are saying that there's no way Schneider will be any good (and i'm not referencing anyone on here so please don't jump to any conclussions, ahem, cough, cough, Slozo, cough, cough )

I do agree with nuxfan that the Canucks actually gave Schneider a handful of big games this past season, though admittedly in years past, it was the crap teams like CBJ, Tor and Edm (okay, i admit, although they have been weak, i intentionally threw in Tor and Edm for you Slozo, and you Beans)

Again, this is somewhat of a risk, but it's really Mike Gillis who's in the most difficult situation. If he were to deal Schneider and the Canucks don't win the cup with the players he got in return, he'd be criticized yet if he keeps him and they don't win, he'll be critcized for not trading him for what people will claim would be enough of a return to win the cup!

The idiotic....errrr fickle, Vancouver fans, will not be happy unless there's a cup win. They won't even understand the business side of this nor will they ever admit that Luongo was as good as he was. It's like trying to convince the Luongo haters that Canada won gold, with his help, and not in spite of him.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4603 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2012 :  06:56:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan

When you're the Canucks, most of your opposition is "the weaker side of the NHL" .

Schneider got his share of strong opponent games last year. Its difficult to measure for sure because teams move up and down the rankings all year, but overall, he started 11 games against teams that eventually made it to the playoffs, and 3 of 5 playoff games. Some highlight games for him last year:

- Oct 13 vs DET - lost 2-0, but faced 37 shots, in what was (at the time) a possible conference final matchup

- Nov 16 vs CHI - lost 5-1, clearly not his best outing, but was given the game

- Nov 26 vs SJ - a 3-2 OT win in one of his best outings last year, pretty much stole the game with a 43 save performance against a pretty hated rival and strong team

- Jan 7 vs BOS - in THE biggest game on the Canucks calendar, in Boston no less, Schneider stopped 35 of 37, and was extraordinarily calm in an otherwise wild game.

- Jan 31 vs CHI - always big games, stopped 37 of 39 in a 3-2 win

- April 15-22 - the 3 biggest games of the Canucks season when all the pressure was on, despite losing 2 of them he allowed 4 GA and had a ridiculous .960 SV.

These are not small games, and in the case of the BOS and CHI games, these are games that default to your #1, and there was a fair amount of surprise at the time towards the goaltending choice.

I guess we'll all have a better idea of how things are going this time next year, and at that time MG will either be a hero or a goat (or something in between). I agree that having Luongo behind him might allow him to play a looser game (perhaps Luongo started feeling the same way about Schneids as the season went on), and as with other backups-turned-to-starters, we haven't seen him play a full season yet - risk is clearly there.

Regarding fan sentiment - unless we lose next year directly because of Schneider, or Luongo wins the cup with his new team, I doubt that anyone will second-guess this trade above others. There is widespread belief (at least in the local press and via people I talk to about hockey) that Schneider has simply earned the spot over the last 2 years, and has potential that far exceeds that of Luongo at this point in time. Further, like a hangover that hits the day after a happy bender, local fans suddenly don't see the wisdom in a 12 year contract for any player (even if the cap hit is favourable), never mind one that doesn't really get going until 6 weeks into the season and cannot always be counted on in crunch situations. Hockey fans here are generally knowledgeable, and its understood that business decisions need to be made, and this is viewed as a good long-term business decision for the Canucks.



So, you tell us he started 11 games against teams that made the playoffs . . . but fail to mention how many games he started, to give us an idea of the percentage of "tough" opponents.

He had a 20-8-1 record, and played in 33 games (4 games where he replaced Luongo).

His last 9 starts of the season, from March 3rd to April 5th, were ALL against non-playoff opponents, with a high playoff ranking already assured for the team. His last game against a playoff opponent was a 2-1 shootout loss against Phoenix on Feb 28th.

Does that sound like a fair sample size to judge future performance on - given that he will now have to face all opponents, play twice as many games at least, and have no proven back-up if he falters?

Like I said, you Vancouver fans - ALL of you - have your head in the clouds on this subject. The risk of failure here is MUCH greater than you think it is.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4603 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2012 :  07:11:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

As for the Canucks goalie situation, i could really care less what ANY fan thinks a year or two or five from now, even if Schneider turns out to be the next Jim Carey or Andrew Raycroft. UNLESS, of course it's someone who right now says they should be keeping Luongo. There are very few people on this planet who if they were in charge of the Canucks, wouldn't be doing exactly what the Canucks are trying to do, and that is, move Luongo. It's not even the contract or the fact they've lost their faith in him, it's the fact they've got a guy who they feel will be as good or better and for less money. Let's face it, if it wasn't for Schneider's emergence, or had they traded him 3 years ago when the talk first started about doing so, they Canucks wouldn't be trying to deal Luongo at all right now!!!

As far as Schneider taking on the starters roll, absolutely there's a chance he could flop. But there's also a chance that Luongo totally loses his game and completely sucks next year. NOTHING is a given. But, with the way that the Canucks have brought Schneider along and groomed him for this roll, you have to think he's more prepared than some of the young guys who get the job handed to them at age 20. What i find funny is there are many guys out there claiming that Holtby this the next coming of Dominik Hasek or Patrick Roy after his short successful stint yet these same clowns are saying that there's no way Schneider will be any good (and i'm not referencing anyone on here so please don't jump to any conclussions, ahem, cough, cough, Slozo, cough, cough )

I do agree with nuxfan that the Canucks actually gave Schneider a handful of big games this past season, though admittedly in years past, it was the crap teams like CBJ, Tor and Edm (okay, i admit, although they have been weak, i intentionally threw in Tor and Edm for you Slozo, and you Beans)

Again, this is somewhat of a risk, but it's really Mike Gillis who's in the most difficult situation. If he were to deal Schneider and the Canucks don't win the cup with the players he got in return, he'd be criticized yet if he keeps him and they don't win, he'll be critcized for not trading him for what people will claim would be enough of a return to win the cup!

The idiotic....errrr fickle, Vancouver fans, will not be happy unless there's a cup win. They won't even understand the business side of this nor will they ever admit that Luongo was as good as he was. It's like trying to convince the Luongo haters that Canada won gold, with his help, and not in spite of him.



First off, I'd love for you to show me the quote where I say Hotlby is going to become a HOFer goalie. THAT is laughable. Strawman argument after strawman argument . . . I mean seriously, I expect better of that from you Alex.

You agree that the Canucks gave Schneider a handful of big games? Yep, that's about right . . . A HANDFUL. Maybe 5, 6. You do realise it will require SEVERAL DOZEN big games in a real season, right? And not behind any kind of cushion offered by a proven, legitimate starter who has taken 100% of the fan flak for team failure (totally unfairly, IMHO).

You guys are brutal. Seriously.

And no, as GM, I would be keeping Luongo, and I would have dealt Schneider by now, once I realise I could have gotten a huge return for him, so that I could have added that extra piece for the playoffs.

You see this Beans? You thought I was only calling out the "bandwagon" jumping fans, but . . . it's prevalent everywhere in Canuckland. They all seriously believe that a back-up goalie who started less than 30 games, 11 of which were against eventual playoff teams (that's 29 starts, 11 playoff teams - 37%, compared with 16 playoff teams out of 30, 53%), with no meaningful games after February . . . that this is the guy who is BETTER than Roberto Luongo, all-star goalie with all the cred in the world.

I totally get why Luongo wants to leave Vancouver now. I didn't get it before, but . . . I totally get it now.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8186 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2012 :  07:45:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ok, I really want to stay out of the way on this one as this debate is about to get entertaining. I do want to chime in on a few things:

Firstly, I would not want to lose Luongo. Not at all. Saying Schneider is going to be as good is a little bit far fetched. Maybe he will. But I consider Luongo a world-class, borderline Hall of Fame goalie. They don't grow on trees.

Secondly, having said that, I would also trade Luongo. Not because I didn't want him, but because his contract is absurd. That is the only issue with the deal with Luongo. If the deal was not 12 yrs long, I agree completely with Slozo and I move Schneider. He is worth more so I could get better value and Luongo is the better goalie.



Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3592 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2012 :  09:13:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

So, you tell us he started 11 games against teams that made the playoffs . . . but fail to mention how many games he started, to give us an idea of the percentage of "tough" opponents.

He had a 20-8-1 record, and played in 33 games (4 games where he replaced Luongo).

His last 9 starts of the season, from March 3rd to April 5th, were ALL against non-playoff opponents, with a high playoff ranking already assured for the team. His last game against a playoff opponent was a 2-1 shootout loss against Phoenix on Feb 28th.

Does that sound like a fair sample size to judge future performance on - given that he will now have to face all opponents, play twice as many games at least, and have no proven back-up if he falters?

Like I said, you Vancouver fans - ALL of you - have your head in the clouds on this subject. The risk of failure here is MUCH greater than you think it is.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



1. I didn't realize I was doing all the work for you - google is your friend. It looks like you were able to find out that he had 30-odd appearances last year, I was not trying to hide the fact. How many other backup goalies got 11 "big games" out of 30-odd starts last year?

2. You cannot help the schedule - the teams you play are the teams you play, and you're correct none of them made the post season. However, consider:

- at least 2 of them (vs DAL) were against a team that was desperately trying to make the playoffs at the time
- the Canucks were slumping offensively during that time as well (a slump that continued into the playoffs where it ultimately killed them), they were certainly not blowing the opposition out.

3. Do you think the Canucks management have made this decision based on 30 games during the last NHL season? Do you think that 30 game samples in a single year are what management bases decisions on? Come on man, this isn't Toronto . Besides, I think we can all agree that this move is about more than who is the better goalie right now.

Slozo - we all agree there is a risk involved in this venture. Schneider could crash and burn next year, or just turn out to be ordinary while Luongo shines in his new home. We could all be sitting around next April thinking "oh man, we made a huge mistake". I don't think that will happen, and neither does Canuck management - but hey, what do they know? They only drafted Schneider in the first round 8 years ago, nurtured his career through US College, 4 years in the AHL (including a Calder Cup finals appearance), and saw plenty of him during his 2 years and 70 games as the best backup in the NHL...
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8186 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2012 :  09:26:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Slozo - we all agree there is a risk involved in this venture. Schneider could crash and burn next year, or just turn out to be ordinary while Luongo shines in his new home. We could all be sitting around next April thinking "oh man, we made a huge mistake". I don't think that will happen, and neither does Canuck management - but hey, what do they know? They only drafted Schneider in the first round 8 years ago, nurtured his career through US College, 4 years in the AHL (including a Calder Cup finals appearance), and saw plenty of him during his 2 years and 70 games as the best backup in the NHL...


The above note is from Nuxfan. I have just one questios to ask.

If Schneider is the man and has been being groomed for 8 years by the genius Vancouver management to take the big chair, why on earth would they sign Luongo to a 12 yr deal just 2 years ago??? If Schneider was earmarked to be the next one, does a 12 yr deal for Luongo make sense???

You are right, what do they know??

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!
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