Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Search
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?
 All Forums
 Hockey Forums
Allow Anonymous Posting forum... General Hockey Chat
 2013 off-season...the most interesting in history? Allow Anonymous Users Reply to This Topic...
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 9

andyhack
PickupHockey Pro



Japan
891 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2013 :  21:13:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
quote:

As a coach, with a stacked and favoured Bruins team with the great Bobby Orr, Don was unable to succeed, and in fact he was part of the infamous "too many men on the ice" incident that blew the series.

"Up by a goal with less than two minutes left in the seventh game, the Bruins were called for having too many men on the ice. The Canadiens' Guy Lafleur scored the tying goal on the subsequent power play and ultimately won the game in overtime."

Cherry was fired by the Bruins for that one.




Sorry to sidetrack the thread but there are just too many factual mistakes in the above comments for me to pass up a brief post here before I snooze.

1. As was already alluded to by a Guest, Cherry only had Orr for a rather small portion of his coaching career in Boston.

2. Cherry's team was not a "stacked and favoured Bruins team" but rather a team with some aging stars (Ratelle, Park) and some fine players (a pre-prime Middleton and a very solid defensive player in Marcotte who could also give you 20 plus goals) and somewhat skilled tough players (Schmautz, Cashman, O'Reilly) and a bunch of muckers (Jonathon, Wensink Secord, etc) who played in the era of a super great Habs team (perhaps the best team ever), a very strong Flyer team and a super great in-the-making Islanders team.

3. Given the players mentioned above and the competition, to some extent they certainly did succeed, as they always had strong regular seasons and made it to two finals and one semi-finals, always losing to the super great Habs (including an excellent effort against those Habs in '78 and the famous semi-final in '79).

4. Don Cherry was not fired because of the two many men on the ice penalty. It didn't help, sure, but the key reason was the relationship with Sinden had long since gone very, very sour.

I certainly can understand why some people don't like Cherry (though I do like him overall personally). I am only commenting on these factual points. We can have different opinions, but we can't have different facts.

Edit - I edited the description of Marcotte above to better reflect what he was. Alex, I loved this team!

Edited by - andyhack on 07/16/2013 04:03:35
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5793 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2013 :  23:35:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
andyhack....I trust your judgement of Cherry as a coach and the situation he was in. From everything I've read from you over the years, you seem to be pretty level headed and non confrontational, with a lot of Bruins (and hockey in general) knowledge. I can deduce from this, you're not a 17 year old who began cheering for Boston a few years back!!!

I too don't mind Cherry. I'm not one of those guys who thinks he the be all end all of hockey, but I get his gig, he's funny, an entertainer really, but at the same time, knows some stuff. Then again, I like Pierre McGuire and I know for certain, i'm in the minority there!!! lol

I think part of the problem is Cherry's love of Orr. A lot of people assume he coached him his whole life!
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5793 Posts

Posted - 07/15/2013 :  23:38:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

I`ve got a feeling that Nonis may move Morgan . R in a bigger deal , one which will involve a 1st line center coming to the leafs......i wouldn`t be shocked if Nonis moves Morgan . R and Kadri together to obtain a 1st line star center.



WOW! Now THAT, is BOLD!!! After the seemingly "breakout season" that Kadri had and the potential of Rielly, i'd sure as hell hope that #1 center is a can't miss stud!!!
Go to Top of Page

slozo
Moderator



Canada
4593 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2013 :  06:14:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by andyhack

quote:
Originally posted by slozo
quote:

As a coach, with a stacked and favoured Bruins team with the great Bobby Orr, Don was unable to succeed, and in fact he was part of the infamous "too many men on the ice" incident that blew the series.

"Up by a goal with less than two minutes left in the seventh game, the Bruins were called for having too many men on the ice. The Canadiens' Guy Lafleur scored the tying goal on the subsequent power play and ultimately won the game in overtime."

Cherry was fired by the Bruins for that one.




Sorry to sidetrack the thread but there are just too many factual mistakes in the above comments for me to pass up a brief post here before I snooze.

1. As was already alluded to by a Guest, Cherry only had Orr for a rather small portion of his coaching career in Boston.

2. Cherry's team was not a "stacked and favoured Bruins team" but rather a team with some aging stars (Ratelle, Park) and some fine players (a pre-prime Middleton and a very solid defensive player in Marcotte who could also give you 20 plus goals) and somewhat skilled tough players (Schmautz, Cashman, O'Reilly) and a bunch of muckers (Jonathon, Wensink Secord, etc) who played in the era of a super great Habs team (perhaps the best team ever), a very strong Flyer team and a super great in-the-making Islanders team.

3. Given the players mentioned above and the competition, to some extent they certainly did succeed, as they always had strong regular seasons and made it to two finals and one semi-finals, always losing to the super great Habs (including an excellent effort against those Habs in '78 and the famous semi-final in '79).

4. Don Cherry was not fired because of the two many men on the ice penalty. It didn't help, sure, but the key reason was the relationship with Sinden had long since gone very, very sour.

I certainly can understand why some people don't like Cherry (though I do like him overall personally). I am only commenting on these factual points. We can have different opinions, but we can't have different facts.

Edit - I edited the description of Marcotte above to better reflect what he was. Alex, I loved this team!



Fair enough,
The info I gave on Orr being part of those teams that blew it in the playoffs was dead wrong, and I should have known that, so fair enough.

The other stuff? About favoured teams blowing it?
Maybe you should edit Wikipedia then . . .

"Cherry quickly developed a reputation for being an eccentric, flamboyant coach who strongly encouraged physical play among his players. According to Cherry, he modeled the Bruins' playing style after that of his dog, Blue, a feisty bull terrier.[15] While the team had previously been known for Orr and Esposito who were highly skilled scorers, their impending departures had Cherry remake the team with enforcers and grinders which became known as the "lunch-pail gang" (or "lunch pail A.C.") and "the Big Bad Bruins". Albeit for a brief slump until Esposito was traded to the New York Rangers for Brad Park, as Esposito disagreed with Cherry's coaching while Park would thrive under it, this approach rejuvenated the Bruins as they continued to be one of the NHL's best teams during the latter half of the 1970s, capturing the division title four straight seasons from 1975-76 through 1978-79. In the 197778 season, Cherry coached the Bruins team to an NHL record of 11 players with 20 goals or more on a single team. Cherry won the Jack Adams Award as NHL coach of the year in 1976.[16]

The Bruins were able to defeat the rough Philadelphia Flyers twice in the playoffs under Cherry's tenure. The Bruins made the Stanley Cup finals twice, both times losing to their arch-rivals, the Montreal Canadiens, in both 1977 and 1978. In the 1979 semi-final playoff series against the Canadiens, Cherry's Bruins pushed the series to the limit but they were undone by a late penalty in the seventh game. Up by a goal with less than two minutes left in the seventh game, the Bruins were called for having too many men on the ice. The Canadiens' Guy Lafleur scored the tying goal on the subsequent power play and ultimately won the game in overtime. Montreal went on to defeat the New York Rangers for their fourth straight Cup title. Cherry, who had an uneasy relationship with Bruins General Manager Harry Sinden, was fired by the Bruins afterward.

Cherry went on to coach the Colorado Rockies the following season. Under his tenure, the Rockies adopted the motto "Come to the fights and watch a Rockies game break out!" and the slogan could be seen on billboards all over Denver in the 197980 season. Cherry's hiring as head coach immediately rejuvenated the ailing franchise's fortunes."

No matter what you think of Wikipedia, it states the obvious - the Bruins were coached to 4 straight division titles, becoming a favourite and top contender in the playoffs; and they did blow it, several times.



"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Go to Top of Page

andyhack
PickupHockey Pro



Japan
891 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2013 :  06:46:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Slozo - not sure how you can say they "blew it". They lost to perhaps the greatest team ever in 6 and 7 games in their last two tries. They played a vastly superior team extremely tough (after beating good teams a long the way), took that vastly superior team to the limit, and with the help of an admittedly horrendous mistake (for which Cherry ultimately has to take responsibility, but a particular player kind of screwing up is part of that story too) lost to that Habs team. But the `79 loss was much more because of the will of Guy Lafleur, a very nice and clever play by Jacque Lemaire and a pretty good or perhaps quite lucky save by Ken Dryden in overtime than anything to do with Cherry"s coaching, which probably should be credited for getting them to that position more than derided for the too many men on the ice penalty.
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2013 :  07:19:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I gotta agree with Andy on this one too. There are very few teams in this history of the NHL that could even hang with those Montreal teams from the late 70's. The fact that the Bruins took them to 6-7 games is incredibly impressive. Even more impressive considering that was without Orr or Esposito. Granted, it was a late error that caused on of the loses and you might consider that 'blowing it' but to take the Canadiens deep for three consecutive years is pretty impressive. Although I think the Bruin teams of the 70's were better, I compare that team to the Bruins and Flyers of the 80's. They were also great teams but they were playing in a time of firewagon hockey with 5 of the most offensive players in history on one team!

I get that Cherry is an aquired taste that many will never acquire but to question his successes and knowledge of the game is unfair. He has his take on the game and he certainly earned the right to discuss it.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

Go to Top of Page

slozo
Moderator



Canada
4593 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2013 :  08:36:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

I gotta agree with Andy on this one too. There are very few teams in this history of the NHL that could even hang with those Montreal teams from the late 70's. The fact that the Bruins took them to 6-7 games is incredibly impressive. Even more impressive considering that was without Orr or Esposito. Granted, it was a late error that caused on of the loses and you might consider that 'blowing it' but to take the Canadiens deep for three consecutive years is pretty impressive. Although I think the Bruin teams of the 70's were better, I compare that team to the Bruins and Flyers of the 80's. They were also great teams but they were playing in a time of firewagon hockey with 5 of the most offensive players in history on one team!

I get that Cherry is an aquired taste that many will never acquire but to question his successes and knowledge of the game is unfair. He has his take on the game and he certainly earned the right to discuss it.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





So what you're REALLY saying Beans (and Andyhack, by extension),

Is that a vastly inferior team on paper (the Leafs) having a lead in the 7th game of a series (against the Bruins) giving that lead up and losing a game they should have won . . .

. . . deserves respect and kudos for the coach?

I just want to get this on the record, that's all.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5793 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2013 :  09:01:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Slozo, i assume you're just kidding about the Leafs one seeing as it wasn't just one goal?

Anyway, the Bruins were a good team in the late 70's, but as others have alluded to, Montreal was simply unreal. Their 60-8-12 record in 1977 is pretty remarkable as they finished 20pts ahead of the 2nd place team!!! Boston, while a high seed themselves, were never favoured over the Habs in Cherry's years on the Boston bench.
Go to Top of Page

The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1039 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2013 :  09:07:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Alex, not saying i would personally package Morgan. R and Kadri....and Nonis is very intelligent as a GM ( i think ) ...but...from what the leafs new ownership rep`s have publically said....it seems like they want a star studed team as soon as possible......these messages don`t send a lets wait another few years to mature our youth scnario.

I think the leafs are finally on the RIGHT TRACK after years of giving up on their own youth.....trading everything away for over-aged, worn out veterans.

I just think that Nonis is under some pressure from this new ownership to immediately bring in a star player....a young 1st line already proven center ( eg. Joe Pavelski )...in order to receive this type of player, a package similar to what i mentioned would have to be coughed up........not saying this would be a good thing for the leafs in the long run, but i can certainly see it happening.
Go to Top of Page

The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1039 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2013 :  09:20:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I still remember watching those late 70`s Boston vs Montreal games. What a diffrent atmosphere surrounded hockey in that era. That was when men played the game and certainly weren`t in it for the $$$$....those guys loved to play.

The memories of myself, brother and dad ( along with some friends ) on a saturday night are still fresh in my mind. Those games were awsome, even has a leaf fan.

In the end, Boston should have had that one cup from the Canadians but of course...the call......Montreal had some more individual skill than the Bruins but Boston had a great team also....

This game ended with a goal from a game breaker....players like this sometimes only need 1 chance, thats all it takes.
Go to Top of Page

The_Gipper
Rookie



Canada
210 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2013 :  10:01:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Alex, not saying i would personally package Morgan. R and Kadri....and Nonis is very intelligent as a GM ( i think ) ...but...from what the leafs new ownership rep`s have publically said....it seems like they want a star studed team as soon as possible......these messages don`t send a lets wait another few years to mature our youth scnario.

I think the leafs are finally on the RIGHT TRACK after years of giving up on their own youth.....trading everything away for over-aged, worn out veterans.

I just think that Nonis is under some pressure from this new ownership to immediately bring in a star player....a young 1st line already proven center ( eg. Joe Pavelski )...in order to receive this type of player, a package similar to what i mentioned would have to be coughed up........not saying this would be a good thing for the leafs in the long run, but i can certainly see it happening.



Duke, are you suggesting that Nonis trade Rielly and Kadri for Pavelski??? come on man! no way that would be a good trade for the Leafs!
besides, we don't need help scoring goals. we need help preventing goals! Nonis should be focused on shoring up the defense first before doing anything else.
also if Nonis is toying with the idea of trading Phaneuff, then he better get a big minute defencemen in return. otherwise, who on the roster will log the 25-ish minutes that Dion logs every game?
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2013 :  10:16:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo

quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

I gotta agree with Andy on this one too. There are very few teams in this history of the NHL that could even hang with those Montreal teams from the late 70's. The fact that the Bruins took them to 6-7 games is incredibly impressive. Even more impressive considering that was without Orr or Esposito. Granted, it was a late error that caused on of the loses and you might consider that 'blowing it' but to take the Canadiens deep for three consecutive years is pretty impressive. Although I think the Bruin teams of the 70's were better, I compare that team to the Bruins and Flyers of the 80's. They were also great teams but they were playing in a time of firewagon hockey with 5 of the most offensive players in history on one team!

I get that Cherry is an aquired taste that many will never acquire but to question his successes and knowledge of the game is unfair. He has his take on the game and he certainly earned the right to discuss it.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





So what you're REALLY saying Beans (and Andyhack, by extension),

Is that a vastly inferior team on paper (the Leafs) having a lead in the 7th game of a series (against the Bruins) giving that lead up and losing a game they should have won . . .

. . . deserves respect and kudos for the coach?

I just want to get this on the record, that's all.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug



It certainly does! I have no problem saying that about the Leafs this past season. They took a Stanley Cup Finalist to the 7th game and had them on the ropes with a 3 goal lead with 10 min remaining. The coach and team deserve credit for that. I freely admit that back when Carlyle replaced Wilson I made statements that I didn't think it would be an improvement. I was clearly wrong. I have no shame in admitting I am wrong. It happens often.


In the same respect, you said that Cherry and his Bruins team 'blew it" against a far superior team late in the series. I just want to make sure that you are also on record in saying that any team who makes it that far and has the other teams on the ropes but loss, "blew it."

Are we on the same page??

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

Go to Top of Page

Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



714 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2013 :  12:07:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Cherry was a great coach in the 70's. Today he's a guy with a lot of hockey knowledge. The problem is that his knowledge doesn't evolve with the game because he is stubborn. It's not the 70's anymore and the game has changed greatly.

As for trading away Rielly and Kadri, that would be stupid. Especially for a second line center like Pavelski. There's not many great big, young first line center in the NHL. The few there is are staying put with the team and would be ask a whole lot in return.

The Leafs are better off to keep their young players and keep building up around them. They finally realize that it can work that way, and with the cap space, this is the way to go in today's NHL. Why would they go back to what they use to do and trade away a bunch of young prospects and draft picks for star players? Just ridiculous and I hope you are wrong Duke and that Nonis doesn't go that route.

As for trading away Phaneuf, Exactly like Gipper said, why trade him away when you can't replace him. He's a big part of the Leafs and plays a lot of minutes, he's thrown out there in every situation. No Leafs player are ready to take that role. So you trade Phaneuf for a 3rd line right winger, and a prospect, then you have to go and give a 1st rounder, a proven top six and a prospect to acquire a guy that would take the role of Phaneuf. Doesn't make sense at all.

Take what you have, build around that, and tweak it a little bit year in a year out.

Edited by - Leafs81 on 07/16/2013 12:07:42
Go to Top of Page

OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
814 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2013 :  12:41:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
from what the leafs new ownership rep`s have publically said....[b]it seems like they want a star studed team as soon as possible.



Ah, yes. Front page of the Toronto Sun today. The new boss of MLSEL has LITERALLY planned a Stanley Cup parade route. No joke. Plenty to follow, though, I'm sure.

The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2014.
Go to Top of Page

nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3586 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2013 :  13:00:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

I just think that Nonis is under some pressure from this new ownership to immediately bring in a star player....a young 1st line already proven center ( eg. Joe Pavelski )...in order to receive this type of player, a package similar to what i mentioned would have to be coughed up



I don't believe that Pavelski has ever been a first line centre in his NHL career. He normally plays 3rd line centre (behind Couture/Thornton), and also sees time as a second line winger. He was the second line centre for a while behind Thornton, but he and Marleau were interchangable.

This is not the centre TOR should be looking for. Something tells me that SJ would jump at the offer of Kadri/Reilly for Pavelski.

@ Gipper - Pavelski is an excellent defensive forward, he is near the top of SJ forwards for SH ice time. He also has a great FO%. Defensibly speaking, he would be a valuable pickup.

Edited by - nuxfan on 07/16/2013 13:03:03
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2013 :  13:14:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would argue with anyone saying Pavelski isn't a #1 or at least a #2 centre. He depth chart might show Thornton and Couture ahead of little Joe but time on ice shows Pavelski leading the Sharks centre last season and the season prior. It's almost a 1A, 1B, 1C system.

As stated Pavelski is a very sound defensive player but is also puts up 25-30 goals a season. Without barking up a tree that has been barked up a lot, Pavelski has proven over his entire career to be the player TO hopes Clarkson becomes.

In TO, Pavelski would likely and quickly become the #1 centre and playing with the likes of Kessel and JVR or Lupul would likely creep closer to being a 70 pt guys. Would also be that time and space creator and would help his linemates improve.

For that, I would say a trade for Kadri and Reilly is very sound. Although Kadri did better last season, his inconsistency at the end of the year tell me he hasn't proven enough yet.

I like that deal.


To the conversation of Phaneuf to Edmonton in a deal involving Hemsky. Maybe that would happen. I think Phaneuf instantly falls into the top pairing in Edmonton but I am not a huge fan of his game. Hemsky needs a new home but I don't know where he would fit in TO's line up. Although it is only one year, $5 million for a 3rd line winger is a little steep. I think Edmonton gets more of what they need in that deal than Toronto does.

I'm still holding my breath for a deal from Philly for Coburn to come to Edmonton. That wouldn't likely involve Hemsky but the Oilers sending draft picks the other way makes sense. Edmonton needs proven players and Philly needs to drop salary and keep the cupboard full.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5793 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2013 :  14:41:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm of the opinion that SJ would jump at the chance to make that deal and in fact, i think they would trade Pavelski for M. Rielly alone! Sure, "proven vs unproven" can be claimed here, but everything about this Rielly kid is thumbs up from all reports i've read! Besides, Burke was gonna take him if he had #1 overall that year, remember?
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2013 :  15:01:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ok, honest mistake. For some reason I was typing Rielly and thinking O'Byrne. Not sure why.

Kadri and Rielly is a little step but not that far off. Let's not forget that Pavelski is a proven NHLer with multiple 25 and 30 goal seasons sharing time with Thornton and Couture. I see him being a legit 70 pt guy with 80+ potential with added minutes and top PP duties. That is worth a lot in today's NHL. Add in the fact that he is strong defensively and plays an angry game.......

Is a bird in the hand still worth two in the bush????

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5793 Posts

Posted - 07/16/2013 :  15:05:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Is a bird in the hand still worth two in the bush????




In this case, i'd take the "two in the bush", but maybe that's just me. Pavelski is 29 and his career high is 66 points. We've talked at lengths about guys improving on their career numbers after 30 and how few do it. Sure, give him great linemates and 1st line minutes and he may put up 70 or even 80 for a couple / three years, but for Kadri and Rielly and their potential, i'd take that gamble. No way Nonis does a deal like that!

BTW Beans, i sure hope you appreciate that i delete that Ottawa nonsense anytime i quote you.
Go to Top of Page

@valanche
Rookie



Canada
240 Posts

Posted - 07/17/2013 :  09:09:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I wouldn't be including Morgan Reilly in trades he's going to be a star in this league. Unless of course Toronto could get staal, getzlaf, etc - a proven star center.


I'm not sold on kadri either but having seen Reilly play in the Whl I can tell you he's the real deal an excellent wrist shot, great passing/vision, and also his positioning.

66 is > than 99
Go to Top of Page

The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1039 Posts

Posted - 07/17/2013 :  12:06:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Fellow posters...i never said i would pull the trigger on that specific deal....i just used Joe Pavel because the leafs have been interested in him for several years, and he is a damn good player.

I`m just pointing out the fact that, because of hight expectations from the leafs new ownership....which has been made public....i could CERTAINLY SEE something like this happening. I believe Nonis is under EXTREME PRESSURE to WIN NOW as the leafs new GM.

Because of this ( gun to the head situation ) i could see the leafs do something real stupid.
Go to Top of Page

The_Gipper
Rookie



Canada
210 Posts

Posted - 07/17/2013 :  12:32:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Duke, that may be true. personally i don't think there is that kind of pressure on Nonis. but that's just my opinion.

however, going for a minute with that theory. let's say there is EXTREME pressure on Nonis. i really don't think he's going to resort to the old Leaf strategy of selling off young high end players/prospects/picks to get proven veteran help who are on the last legs of the primes of their careers. which is where your Pavelski scenario falls into.
IF he's going to offer up names such as Gardiner, Rielly, Kadri, etc. then i think it would only be for the purposes of getting young proven talent in return. the theory being if you're going to trade the future, then make sure you get the future in return.
Go to Top of Page

Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
2267 Posts

Posted - 07/17/2013 :  15:27:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Who is putting Nonis under this extreme pressure? is it ownership? Or is it you Duke? I mean no offense by this but it sounds to me you want them to win now, I don't know what ownership wants or has expressed to Mr. Nonis


Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?
Go to Top of Page

OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
814 Posts

Posted - 07/17/2013 :  15:56:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The new CEO of MLSE, Tim Leiweke, has gone to the media and told them he has a parade route planned for the envisioned Cup win for the Leafs. He has also suggested that all reminders of previous Cup winners be removed from the ACC, as this current squad, or their fans should not dwell on the past.

To the credit of the Toronto media, his comments have been reviled, but it still gets a lot of press out here. And puts undue pressure on Leafs' management.

The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2014.
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5793 Posts

Posted - 07/17/2013 :  21:59:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The parade route stuff and the taking down of the old pics and memorabilia is odd. I honestly don't care if the guy comments that he's got a parade route planned, though personally I wouldn't have made it public. The other part though, if I were a fan of the team, i'd be angry. Why take down the old memories, especially when there's very few new ones to put up!

I'm a little surprised there's not more being said about this parade route stuff in the media. Sure, it's been reported, but not like I would have thought it would have considering the team!
Go to Top of Page

mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
385 Posts

Posted - 07/18/2013 :  09:55:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As a fan of the leafs surprisingly i have no problme with the idea of taking down all the old photos and stuff. i wouldn't look at it with excitement anymore. i would treat it as a constant reminder that we hadn't been to the dance in far to long. it would be demoralizing knowing that the last people to win the cup in TOR had their picture taken in black and white......... i would love the opportunity to start the legacy over for the new generation of leafs fans. to be part of that would be awesome!
Go to Top of Page

The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1039 Posts

Posted - 07/18/2013 :  11:48:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Still some good players available, wonder if any1 is interested in them......Brunner ( det )....Raymond ( van ).....grabo...

Pasty, theres always pressure being a GM , especially in Toronto or Montreal. Do you ever listen to the way this guy Tim Lieweke talks ?......I don`t think he is a very patient, wait around and see type of person.

Of course i would like to see the leafs win now !!! ( but not all all costs )...wouldn`t you like to see the Canadians win ?

Pasty, i`ve been a leaf fan all my life and i can honestly say that i`ve never in my liftime seen the future so bright for the leafs as it is right now.........i don`t mean a bright spot for just one season, which has happened before..........the leafs have a very solid team in place right now, with a little more tinkering, a great team which WILL contend.........the leafs organization for the first time in years, have a solid group of NHL players in place and have a very deep prospect pool.
Go to Top of Page

Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



714 Posts

Posted - 07/18/2013 :  12:06:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As a Leafs fan I think all that idea of restarting fresh and the parade is ridiculous, stupid and ignorant.

The Leafs make the playoffs once and it's all now or nothing. Be patient. The Leafs are not a contender and there's many pieces missing before they are. Trading the future for getting a first line center wont give them a cup.

A Stanley Cup is never a guarantee. The Chicago Blackhawks this year was as close as a guarantee since the Red Wings won in 2002. Even though some people could argue that Boston, Pittsburgh and LA had just as much chances.

All this is stupid and it's scary for a Leafs fan.
Go to Top of Page

OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
814 Posts

Posted - 07/18/2013 :  16:10:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Scary indeed. But, I feel the need to grudgingly remind you that when Peter Pocklington took over the Oilers in '79, he promised a Stanley Cup within 5 years. Different situation, of course, but he delivered.

Sometimes this sort of bombast is just what an organization needs to jump the next hurdle. Once more, 'not a Leafs' fan', but why not take a different look at the motivation part of it.

MLSE has already cut ties with Dave Keon. Why not lose memory of Sittler too!

Gilmour and Clarke should no longer haunt the current team. Nor should the fact that you guys have had a couple of legit #1 goalies in the no so distant past.

Look to the future, Leafs' fans, and enjoy it. After all, with this new CEO, that's all you got left.

The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2014.
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5793 Posts

Posted - 07/18/2013 :  16:45:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just curious.....

If the Leafs do take down all this old stuff, are Leaf fans still allowed to say "yeah, but at least we've won the cup" when i argue with them over our teams?
Go to Top of Page

mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
385 Posts

Posted - 07/18/2013 :  18:35:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Did that argument ever work for leafs fans..... I always thought of it as the last line a leafs troll can use. No Alex leafs fan can't use nor ever could use that as an argument.

Edited by - mandree888 on 07/19/2013 08:59:33
Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5793 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2013 :  08:26:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mandree888

Did that argument ever work for leafs fans..... I always thought of it as the last line a leafs can use. No Alex leafs fan can't use nor ever could use that as an argument.



mandree.....trust me, it's been used many many times, even around here, especially after the success the Canucks have had overall without ever winning the ultimate prize!
Go to Top of Page

mandree888
PickupHockey Pro



Canada
385 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2013 :  08:58:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
yeah but never a valid point. i mean seriously whoopi.... the leafs one when there was a 1 in 6 chance of winning....... the canucks brought it to game 7 of the finals when there is a 1 and 30 chance of winning......... any leafs fan that cannot see the diference is looking through white and blue tinted glasses....... lets put this a different way. have the leafs ever made it the the finals in my lifetime.......NO..... have the canucks .... YES that to me says something.... i can't take anything away from the canucks except the fact that i find them boring to watch but who knows that might change under torts.....
Go to Top of Page

slozo
Moderator



Canada
4593 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2013 :  09:14:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Speaking of interesting summer moves (getting back to the topic at hand) . . .

. . . how about that rush to snap up the valuable asset known as Mikhail Grabovski? I remember getting shot down as a "turncoat" after giving out what I thought was a thoughtful change of heart on Grabovski, and stating that I was ok on him leaving the Leafs. I was told in no uncertain terms by more than just one poster that he would be grabbed up, and would come back to haunt the Leafs.

Why, then, has no one picked him up? Hmm?

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Go to Top of Page

The_Gipper
Rookie



Canada
210 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2013 :  10:29:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Slozo, i suppose it could be the same reason that players like Jagr and Morrow haven't signed yet. what that reason is, i have no idea. that first day of UFA two friday's ago was wild. since then it's been very quiet, and some decent names still out there to be signed.

as for Grabo (and maybe even the rest of the UFA's), it could be the case of him and/or his agent are overvaluing him. their argument being that one GM (now former GM) was willing to pay him $5.5M a year, so why should he take anything less now. not saying that is their bargaining position, n'or do i agree with it if it is. but it is a possibility.

will Grabo sign with another team? yes, i think he will.
will he come back to haunt the Leafs? i don't see it....
Go to Top of Page

Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8174 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2013 :  11:05:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree that Grabovski is likely being over-valued. I think you will see a number of players like Grabovksi, Jagr, and Morrow sign after arbitration is done. A team like the Oilers, for example, would likely look at a Grabovksi if Gagner is either not signed or the arbitrator rules in favour of the player.

I don't recall being the one who said the Leafs will regret dropping Grabovski but I do certainly see him being of value for a number of teams. Unfortuantely, he might think he is more valuable than he really is.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5793 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2013 :  15:56:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ok, is this the prime example of greed then? If Grabo is getting a guaranteed paycheque from his Leaf buyout, he could sign for 3.5M and still be making sick money between these two paycheques! I believe K. Ballard, with his buyout and new deal, is now making more than he was with the Canucks. Same goes for Lecavalier if my info is correct!

Grabo is by no means useless, but i think he was being overpaid by the Leafs by at least a mil. They, and other teams, seem to think so too after failing to trade him AND having to buy him out.
Go to Top of Page

The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1039 Posts

Posted - 07/20/2013 :  09:28:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don`t think that saying Jagr and Morrow are not signed is a fair assessment compared to that of Graboski at all. ( to rebuttal slozo`s question of why grabo is not signed )

How can you compare these 2 to grab ?

Graboski is 29 years old and has 5 -6 prime-time years left in him.

Morrow is 34 years old and has maybe 3 -4 years left in him on the down-slide of his career

Jagr is close to old age pension age.

I think the question still stands....if grab is so great and was so valuable to the leafs ( so some posted ) how come he hasn`t signed with any1 yet ?

I think grabo was overpaid by 2 million per season. He was a real hard worker at times ( when he was in the mood to play ) but he was so hard for his line-mates to read, no-one knew what he was going to do next.

Go to Top of Page

Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5793 Posts

Posted - 07/20/2013 :  20:58:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

I think the question still stands....if grab is so great and was so valuable to the leafs ( so some posted ) how come he hasn`t signed with any1 yet ?





Ummm, I keep reading all this stuff about people claiming Grabo "was so great", etc and the Leafs will regret losing him (or whatever else has been said), but I just don't recall reading a lot of comments to that effect? Anyone wanna provide some quotes, or those who did say all this "Grabo rules" stuff wanna own up to it???
Go to Top of Page

JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1877 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2013 :  14:40:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://www.edmontonsun.com/2013/07/22/edmonton-oilers-ink-three-year-contract-extension-with-centre-sam-gagner

Gagner signs with the Oilers for 3 years at $4.8 million, with a No Trade Clause after year 1 of the deal. I for 1 like this signing, as it seems of value and if he can't repeat his numbers next year, they have a season to find him a new home.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 9 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
Jump To:
Snitz Forums 2000 Go To Top Of Page